NASCAR Thread.

[opelgt1969]

This debate question is not a reflection of a thought or belief I have. Instead, it's a question I just want to ask for your opinions for:

John's Debate! - Divine Intervention?
I have a feeling that some people would think that wins earned because of a rain delay aren't earned. Maybe I think of... okay. There are classical thinkers, then there are the hardcore thinkers. The hardcore types would be like, "Kurt Busch isn't supposed to win this race just because of the rain." A race ended by rain usually means that a driver will win the race for leading at that time as well as whomever have placed well. Former WoO (or sprint car?) star J.J. Yeley was one of the top 5 members. So what I'm asking you all is... do you think wins are earned when stopped by a rain delay? Are you one of the people who think certain racers shouldn't even have placed high enough, but ended up placing high because of the rain delay? Do you think leading at a certain time of the race and eventually FINISHING in that position after rain is an earned victory? And do you think races stopped by rain should be resumed in the future to complete the actual race distance?



I have a strange "ability" to predict what people will say about things. Usually predicting something bad. Like I could imagine some people saying that Danica Patrick shouldn't have won at Motegi earlier this year because of a fuel race. Fact is... she won, didn't she? Some people probably think someone else could have won. Some hardcore types think that even if Dick Trickle was leading a race as leaders were having pit stops and with the race stopped by rain, that Dick Trickle didn't earn the victory (according to hardcore critics). Fact is, the field is frozen in situations like this. Whomever is in the lead and placed highly will keep their positions. Congratulations to the Top 5 from this race.

Up next... Daytona! That track you never saw coming when Gran Turismo 5: Prologue was released. Let speculation begin!

Just for the fun of it I just went to NASCAR.com and looked at some of "King Richard's" stats. None showed races won because of rain. So in 5 years it all depends on wheater you remember that a certain race was a rain out or not. In my opinion it's a race win as long as nascar tries to run the whole race.

 

[TS]

And yeah Dodge did do fairly well in the 500, although let's be honest here folks, Newman wouldn't have won without the almost god-like bumpdraft given by Kurt Busch. Realisticly, I'm looking at Kyle Busch, Kyle Busch or erm.. Kyle Busch.

That and when Stewart pulled out of line to get a push from Kyle Busch helped Newman win.

 

[Earth]

Wow Dario Franchitti's team has been terminated

I wonder what's next for Franchitti? Back to the IRL?

 

[Lee]

I dunno, even with the lack of success so far, Dario's no doubt building up a pretty sweet pension in NASCAR. Maybe he'll take over the 41 next season, Sorenson still hasn't signed an extension as far as I know.

 

[TS]

Wow Dario Franchitti's team has been terminated

I wonder what's next for Franchitti? Back to the IRL?

I'm sure going back to the IRL is an option for Franchitti, but where would he go? Would Ganassi expand his IRL operation to 3 teams? All we know for certain is that his plans are to do some more Nationwide races with Bryan Clauson.

I dunno, even with the lack of success so far, Dario's no doubt building up a pretty sweet pension in NASCAR. Maybe he'll take over the 41 next season, Sorenson still hasn't signed an extension as far as I know.

Sorenson hasn't signed anything yet, but the offer has been made to him to stay at Ganassi.

 

[Earth]

I'm sure going back to the IRL is an option for Franchitti, but where would he go? Would Ganassi expand his IRL operation to 3 teams? All we know for certain is that his plans are to do some more Nationwide races with Bryan Clauson.

I heard Ganassi may lose target as a sponsor in IRL, so if money is a problem for the organization I dont think they'll expand to 3 cars, maybe the second penske seat?

 

[TS]

I heard Ganassi may lose target as a sponsor in IRL, so if money is a problem for the organization I dont think they'll expand to 3 cars, maybe the second penske seat?

Those were only rumors that both Target and Ganassi denied.

As for the 2nd Penske ride, it may happen, but now that Briscoe has quit crashing, where would he go? It's highly unlikely that Penske would replace Helio unless if he retires. Although it wouldn't surprise me if one of the CCWS transition teams who haven't entered the IRL yet (like Walker racing, although Derrick is nearly bankrupt) to pick him up and develop their program to be more competitive.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I know that Dario is a good racer, but if I were Chip Ganassi and faced with a Franchitti/Sorenson dilemma for NASCAR, I'd choose Sorenson every time. Dario has had some bad luck, but he's been really disappointing in NASCAR.

I find it interesting that two top-line single-seater drivers (the other being Jacques Villeneuve) are now out of rides at NASCAR, both because their teams could not attract sponsorship. Quite indicative of the deepening financial crisis in America, I would venture.

 

[Earth]

Mark Martin to drive the Hendrick's Motorsports #5 next season

What I like the most about that is there is a chance he could drive full time.

Right now he's 500 points out of the chase and he's missed 5 races. If he averaged a finish of 20th or better in those 5 races he would be in the chase right now.

He is getting older (49) but is still in good shape. You should see him with his shirt off. He can still do it, he can make the chase in the 5 car if he decides to go full time next year. That would be great because he's been my driver ever since I started following NASCAR.

 

[TS]

I find it interesting that two top-line single-seater drivers (the other being Jacques Villeneuve) are now out of rides at NASCAR, both because their teams could not attract sponsorship. Quite indicative of the deepening financial crisis in America, I would venture.

JV took a big chance by joining one of the smaller teams in NASCAR while Franchitti was going into one of the bigger teams with nearly unlimited resources and the results were rather similar.

But Villeneuve had an aspiring career in the LMS to fall back on (didn't he win the race at Monza?), while Franchitti is still uncertain about his future.

Mark Martin to drive the Hendrick's Motorsports #5 next season

What I like the most about that is there is a chance he could drive full time.

Right now he's 500 points out of the chase and he's missed 5 races. If he averaged a finish of 20th or better in those 5 races he would be in the chase right now.

He is getting older (49) but is still in good shape. You should see him with his shirt off. He can still do it, he can make the chase in the 5 car if he decides to go full time next year. That would be great because he's been my driver ever since I started following NASCAR.

The chances of Mark Martin driving full time are 100%. The only reasons Martin was doing the part-time deal was he wanted to spend more time with his wife, and to help out his son, Matt with his racing. Since then Mark's son quit racing and his wife is probably nagging him for not getting out of the house more often.

That and he would like to fill his trophy case with the Daytona 500 trophy and the Sprint Cup Championship.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I'm really pleased for Mark Martin, and I'd like to see him do well, but WOW! With Dale Jr, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon in the team, I was really expecting to see them hire a promising junior. Almirola (probably wrong spelling) or someone like that. I'm surprised that they've gone for someone of such seniority.

 

[RACECAR]

I'm really pleased for Mark Martin, and I'd like to see him do well, but WOW! With Dale Jr, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon in the team, I was really expecting to see them hire a promising junior. Almirola (probably wrong spelling) or someone like that. I'm surprised that they've gone for someone of such seniority.

Never hurts to consult a veteran I would think. And man, this team may be unstoppable for sure come 2009.

 

[TS]

I'm really pleased for Mark Martin, and I'd like to see him do well, but WOW! With Dale Jr, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon in the team, I was really expecting to see them hire a promising junior. Almirola (probably wrong spelling) or someone like that. I'm surprised that they've gone for someone of such seniority.

Almirola already had a deal to drive for DEI full time next season when Mark Martin announced he was leaving DEI for Hendrick and was the odd man out.

Most likely, it'll only be a 1-year deal just to give Martin a chance to win the cup, and maybe the year after, they'll get a young and up-coming driver like Brad Keselowski in the car.

 

[JohnBM01]

My favorite driver in Sprint Cup leads the race... gets spun out by another NASCAR driver I like... Jeff Gordon ends up 30th. Only saving grace is that he's still in the Chase for the Cup standings. I know I rip Tony Stewart every chance I get, but I hope he feels better from his illness. You-know-who won the Coke Zero 400. Oh, and by the way... I fell asleep and missed seeing the crazy finish live.

I have put together this debate question. This is NOT about the Daytona race. Instead, it's about getting more insight on the Mauricia Grant deal. Feel free to respond.



John's Debate! - Mauricia Grant
Mauricia Grant was the NASCAR official that's been in the news by making a $225M lawsuit against NASCAR for sexual harassment, gender harassment, and racism. I was watching ESPN's SportsCenter on Independence Day morning when she was featured on an "Outside the Lines" segment. The material I heard was absolutely foul. Speaking as a Black American myself, I'd be mad as hell if I were Grant and going through what she went through. The aforementioned partieshave been disciplined in some sort of way. On a scale of 0-10 (10 = best; 0 = worst), grade NASCAR's handling of Mauricia Grant's issues and the parties involved. How would you feel (and what would you do) if you were in Grant's situation? How far would you go to express your disapproval of working conditions and the staff around you? Could the same thing happen if, say... a Latin/Hispanic female was in Grant's situation or even an Asian female? What about any other non-White or non-Black person?

 

[Solid Fro]

IMO, Karma Busch didn't win the race, he just happened to be in front win the caution came out. I grew up watching drivers race back to the line and if that was still in effect, Karma Busch wouldn't be in Winner's Circle... Edwards had a very strong run on the outside.

Oooh, look at all the pretty beer cans as they explode.

 

[Metar]

But we all know you hate him ever since he spun Dale Junior at Richmond... or even before that. As others said - it takes something to be in that lead in the first place. Otherwise Kurt Busch never won last week, and Dale Junior didn't get lucky two weeks ago.


Bah, missed end of the Nationwide race, and missed the Sprint completely (3am-7am screening is not the best time, ESPN. Even tape-delay is better...)

 

[TS]

My favorite driver in Sprint Cup leads the race... gets spun out by another NASCAR driver I like... Jeff Gordon ends up 30th. Only saving grace is that he's still in the Chase for the Cup standings. I know I rip Tony Stewart every chance I get, but I hope he feels better from his illness. You-know-who won the Coke Zero 400. Oh, and by the way... I fell asleep and missed seeing the crazy finish live.

Poor Gordon, if he didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck at all.

J.J Yeley did a hell of a job relief driving for Smoke, even though it was easier for him because the car was fast, but as loose as that thing got late in the race and him holding on to it was damn fun to watch.

John's Debate! - Mauricia Grant
Mauricia Grant was the NASCAR official that's been in the news by making a $225M lawsuit against NASCAR for sexual harassment, gender harassment, and racism. I was watching ESPN's SportsCenter on Independence Day morning when she was featured on an "Outside the Lines" segment. The material I heard was absolutely foul. Speaking as a Black American myself, I'd be mad as hell if I were Grant and going through what she went through. The aforementioned partieshave been disciplined in some sort of way. On a scale of 0-10 (10 = best; 0 = worst), grade NASCAR's handling of Mauricia Grant's issues and the parties involved. How would you feel (and what would you do) if you were in Grant's situation? How far would you go to express your disapproval of working conditions and the staff around you? Could the same thing happen if, say... a Latin/Hispanic female was in Grant's situation or even an Asian female? What about any other non-White or non-Black person?

I think NASCAR needs to publicly address it instead of beating around the bush about it and saying it will be resolved in court and not in the media. The best way to probably resolve it would be to give Grant and all the people she mentioned in the interview a lie detector test and see if her allegations are true, then the case can move from there.

IMO, Karma Busch didn't win the race, he just happened to be in front win the caution came out. I grew up watching drivers race back to the line and if that was still in effect, Karma Busch wouldn't be in Winner's Circle... Edwards had a very strong run on the outside.

You hate Kyle Busch, we get it, but I'm surprised how you could hate a guy that can drive a car as loose and out of shape as he does for very long and is able to have a chance to win at nearly every track on the schedule.

It seems that each and every week there are more people cheering for him than booing, eventually the incident with Jr. at Richmond will be forgotten about, like it or not.

But I agree with you partly, I liked it when they used to race to the line, and NASCAR should have let those guys race to the line under green. They let Harvick and Martin race to the line in the 500 in '07 while that big wreck was going on behind them. Why not let the guys in the lead pack race to the line while everybody else was either wrecking or slowing down trying to avoid it?

 

[Solid Fro]

It seems that each and every week there are more people cheering for him than booing, eventually the incident with Jr. at Richmond will be forgotten about, like it or not.

If he wins the race cleanly, I don't see any problem with it. But, winning on a technicality? Pttth.

But I agree with you partly, I liked it when they used to race to the line, and NASCAR should have let those guys race to the line under green. They let Harvick and Martin race to the line in the 500 in '07 while that big wreck was going on behind them. Why not let the guys in the lead pack race to the line while everybody else was either wrecking or slowing down trying to avoid it?

Agreed, the caution should had not come out 3/4th the way on the last lap.

But we all know you hate him ever since he spun Dale Junior at Richmond... or even before that. As others said - it takes something to be in that lead in the first place. Otherwise Kurt Busch never won last week, and Dale Junior didn't get lucky two weeks ago.

Jr. did get lucky two weeks ago. If it had stayed green, he would have been out of gas.

 

[TS]

If he wins the race cleanly, I don't see any problem with it. But, winning on a technicality? Pttth.

That was a product of him being up front, would your opinion change if Carl Edwards had won the same way?

 

[RACECAR]

If he wins the race cleanly, I don't see any problem with it. But, winning on a technicality? Pttth.

The way I see it, He did win cleanly. He didn't cheat in any way to achieve it si as far as I'm concerned, I'd say he won in fair and square.
Why is it such a big deal? Unless the guy who won spun someone out to get it done, whats wrong with it? You can never predict a race. No matter how you would like the race to turn out, its completely out of you hands so you can only hope it'll turn out the way you want it. There's no point in complaining about outcome if its beyond your control.

 

[Solid Fro]

That was a product of him being up front, would your opinion change if Carl Edwards had won the same way?

Up front? Where was up front? Depending on when you threw the caution, Carl Edwards or Karma Busch would have won. That's my problem and Karma Busch makes it aggravating.

 

[Metar]

They both knew the rules, didn't they? Then it was down to getting lucky as to who's ahead on the exact time of the caution.

Dale Sr. and many others won races in which they spun their immediate opponents on the track (or in the championship) - I dislike that kind of winning far more than winning because something in the rules, or some magic call by your crewchief, sent you out ahead at the time the race was done.

Fact is, in a sport where a pitstop costs you a lot of track-time and positions (with 30-second laps, you can lose a whole lap pitting under green), cautions and pitting under yellow, and improvising the strategy by choosing what others didn't can often send you to victory lane. Denny Hamlin won the Richmond Nationwide race by stopping for four tyres late in the race, Dale Jr. won on mileage two weeks ago, Kurt Busch won by changing two tyres and getting ahead of others in uncoming rain. And now Kyle Busch won, simply because he was ahead at the time when, according to the rules, the organizers can stop the racing.

 

[TS]

Up front? Where was up front? Depending on when you threw the caution, Carl Edwards or Karma Busch would have won. That's my problem and Karma Busch makes it aggravating.

Leading the pack(s), Busch and Edwards were both in position to win because they were both in front of their drafting packs. Even if the yellow didn't come out, it still would've been a battle between Edwards and Busch back to the line. And it may have been Edwards nipping him at the line because he had the high line that carries more momentum.

And how does Kyle Busch make it aggravating?

 

[Metar]

Because he dislikes Kyle ever since the Richmond accident/incident. If it was Dale Jr. he'd be overflowing with joy that the rules helped him.

 

[TS]

Because he dislikes Kyle ever since the Richmond accident/incident. If it was Dale Jr. he'd be overflowing with joy that the rules helped him.

That makes no sense, it wasn't like Kyle spun out Dale Jr. and won the race, it really didn't benefit either driver.

 

[Metar]

That makes no sense, it wasn't like Kyle spun out Dale Jr. and won the race, it really didn't benefit either driver.

It doesn't to anyone, and should only make Clint Bowyer fans happy - but explain that to hundreds of Junior fans throwing garbage at Busch. All Kyle did was be in Dale Jr. inside into the corner. He got a little loose, moved a little bit towards Junior's groove, and made contact. Slow-motion spin ensues, Bowyer uses the opportunity. I was too busy feeling sorry for Denny Hamlin at the time to notice.

 

[TS]

It doesn't to anyone, and should only make Clint Bowyer fans happy - but explain that to hundreds of Junior fans throwing garbage at Busch. All Kyle did was be in Dale Jr. inside into the corner. He got a little loose, moved a little bit towards Junior's groove, and made contact. Slow-motion spin ensues, Bowyer uses the opportunity. I was too busy feeling sorry for Denny Hamlin at the time to notice.

It seems that all the Dale Jr. fans who hate Jeff Gordon now have their targets set on Kyle Busch. I find no sense in throwing garbage and such at a driver, it's showing blatant disrespect towards them and it also makes them look like idiots, and those who choose to do so should be banned from that certain race track.

 

[RACECAR]

It seems that all the Dale Jr. fans who hate Jeff Gordon now have their targets set on Kyle Busch. I find no sense in throwing garbage and such at a driver, it's showing blatant disrespect towards them and it also makes them look like idiots, and those who choose to do so should be banned from that certain race track.

My thoughts exactly. Thats not being a fan, thats being immature.

 

[Solid Fro]

Because he dislikes Kyle ever since the Richmond accident/incident.

Sure as hell I am.

If it was Dale Jr. he'd be overflowing with joy that the rules helped him.

Wrong. Winning under caution is not racing at all.

Somehow all of you have evidence that beer throwing is done by Jr. fans. 👎

 

[JohnBM01]

Someone blatantly hated on me when I talked bad about those dopes who threw crap on the track whenver Jeff Gordon won at Talladega. Saying something like, "of course NASCAR is going to be rowdy Southern motorsport," or something like that. I guess all I can say is...

...haters will be haters. I'm not a Kyle Busch (the M&M Toyota, right?) fan, but I won't go to any extreme of throwing stuff on the track or anything like that. Love and hate drivers verbally... just don't let them know your views go as far as attacking cars or drivers.