Need For Speed Heat - General Discussion

[cudwieser]

I don't mind they keep the Speedcard system but I do hope it is less perk dependent, the perks in Payback is way too powerful and crucial for a decant handling car.

Also the whole process of exchanging parts with the correct perk and manufacturer part in Payback is really boring after sinking 100 hours into the game.

I think it always made sense to buy or earn a particular part. Maybe a high priced part in a store can be earned in an event (wouldn't mind a mini championship or a couple of shadow scores (running a second event on the fly) to earn a part or part set) or to buy if you've a token or money to spare. It can be nice to tell the same story in different ways.

 

[Darla Starch]

If it makes any sense, I want the next NFS to have that weird sense of joy the pre-Underground games had. Can still keep the plot and story aspects, but perhaps not so SUPERGRIMSERIOUS.

 

[Sage Ages]

After doing some looking into Ghost, I have to say I don't have any high hopes for the next game.

 

[Ameer67]

After doing some looking into Ghost

What did you look into if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Sage Ages]

I'll have to look around again for the exact links and sources, but apparently Ghost doesn't have a lot of permanent/long-term staff. In addition, a lot of stuff ended up being outsourced for 2015 and Payback. Also consider the fact that a lot of probably-important people have left the studio or were laid off sometime between Rivals and 2015 and honestly, I can see how this became a recipe for disaster.

 

[FT-1]

So due to the PS4 player count leak, we have some sales figures for the most recent 3 titles:


The numbers speak for themselves, 2015 managed to pull nearly 10 million sales on a single platform!

Rivals did well, but bear in mind it was the only AAA racing game on the PS4 for a year until Driveclub came onto the scene, if I remember correctly. I'm not surprised Payback hasn't been achieving stellar numbers considering the MTX controversy, but it features so many Quality of Life improvements over 2015.

 

[Sage Ages]

That number for Rivals is a bit too high. There is a bit of a margin of error to this but the numbers we were able to get were 7421458, 7503107, and 7955000, meaning it's probably somewhere towards the lower end of that. If someone can get more data, then a more accurate figure could be narrowed down.

 

[ImaRobot]

The numbers speak for themselves, 2015 managed to pull nearly 10 million sales on a single platform!

No it didn't. It's funny that they keep mentioning sales leak, when all we have is player counts. Regardless, even if it is just player counts, that's still higher than i ever expected it would be.

 

[FT-1]

No it didn't. It's funny that they keep mentioning sales leak, when all we have is player counts. Regardless, even if it is just player counts, that's still higher than i ever expected it would be.

True on both counts - It is hard to know how many of those users are playing on shared copies or bought it second hand, but that statistic is unexpectedly high.

 

[Sage Ages]

Yeah, this is player counts so it doesn't dictate sales, but at least we have a relative idea of how each game did.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Yeah, this is player counts so it doesn't dictate sales, but at least we have a relative idea of how each game did.

One can also assume that in relation to 2015 having higher numbers is because how it was the first street racing title in the NFS franchise after an extended supercars and cops period, and with how often Ghost was pumping the tires of NFS 2015, it being a magnum opus. Evidently, it wasn't.

 

[FT-1]

NFS 2019 could be in jeopardy; the founder of Ghost Games has resigned from the company after 7 years:



I can't say I am surprised this news following the sales leak, but this is undoubtedly going to have some repercussions with the rest of the workforce. The next Need For Speed could either:

1. Still be released next year, but compromised due to the management chaos and lack of direction in this phase of development. I'd be surprised if a Need For Speed title released next year doesn't feel like it is missing some significant features.
2. Released in 2020 with a completely different execution to how NFS 2019 was supposed to be released - We could end up with another Most Wanted 2012 scenario.

Some other things to bear in mind about a 2020 release: If the next game is supposed to be released in 2019, then it was not intended to be released for next-gen systems. delaying it another year means the devs would have to create a half-arsed port to ensure decent sales. Furthermore, a 2020 release means they completely miss the 25th Anniversary year for Need For Speed.

What's your take on this news?

 

[Ameer67]

Well that definitely throws a monkey wrench into the dilemma. I honestly don't have any idea what their next move for the series is going to be at this point.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The NFS series won't die. As one of EA's premier franchises and one of it's oldest, they'll figure out something. If that means starting up another studio, so be it.

 

[AudiMan2011]

The NFS series won't die. As one of EA's premier franchises and one of it's oldest, they'll figure out something. If that means starting up another studio, so be it.

It's EA, so they'll probably just shove future NFS games onto mobile now since they get hard for monetising the hell out of everything they touch.

 

[rallymorten]

It's certainly looking like an interesting time's ahead. Interesting, and perhaps slightly worrying, in the sense that there's now a few places in key positions and we don't know who's going to fill them and, by extention, what their "stance" (haha that's a clever pun innit?) is. Not that Ghost Games as we've come to.. "know" it.. has ever given much of an impression of "we know what we're doing and we definitely want NFS to be this", but it'll somehow be even less now. Which I guess is an accomplishment on its own.

What I consider the best possible outcome of all of this? I hope someone steps in and realises that, while I maintain that there is a good-enough game to be gotten by mixing 2015 and Payback the right way (one of those that don't involve energy drinks), it's probably better to do the classic thing and reboot the reboot's reboot's reboot (Christ on a bicycle, that would make it the fourth time NFS has rebooted itself) - but do a complete cold start this time. Wipe the slate clean. Or actually, burn the slate down and get a new one. Forget that NFS was ever a thing, and focus first and foremost on making a game people will want to play. You know, a little like how Burnout Paradise decided to switch up the formula in basically every aspect and became one of the most recognisable and beloved racing games out there because of it. Or, if you really want to go there, like how Black Box changed NFS 15 years ago.

And stop the special VIP event invitation thingymajiggles with 🤬 YouTubers. We've seen multiple times what happens when 🤬 YouTubers get a little too involved in the process of creating video games. It doesn't end well. Take the hint already.

Also, just as a side note:

sales leak

Yeah, this is player counts so it doesn't dictate sales

..and player numbers are entirely useless unless we have a clearer indication of how many copies it *actually* sold, for this exact reason:

but at least we have a relative idea of how each game did.

..but do we really? I mean, without a more reliable estimate on the number of copies in circulation than what VGChartz provides, I can just as easily conclude the higher player number for 2015 is due to the game being sold second-hand more than Payback, which.. would imply the exact opposite of the player numbers.

My point is that we need some reliable numbers to cross-reference with before we can make any educated theories.

 

[CleanCut]

Straight Up Hippo is a 🤬, so he should be proud of the fact that I actually made it nearly halfway through that vid.

But regarding the actual news and possible repercussions, FT-1 said:

• Still be released next year, but compromised due to the management chaos and lack of direction in this phase of development. I'd be surprised if a Need For Speed title released next year doesn't feel like it is missing some significant features.

• Released in 2020 with a completely different execution to how NFS 2019 was supposed to be released - We could end up with another Most Wanted 2012 scenario.

... I don't disagree, and this is a really unfortunate turn of events.

Personally, if the only option is to make lemonade out of lemons, I would prefer them to remake Prostreet. That would probably be the simplest and limited scope of game that they could execute successfully given the aforementioned circumstances.

 

[Ameer67]

Personally, if the only option is to make lemonade out of lemons, I would prefer them to remake Prostreet. That would probably be the simplest and limited scope of game that they could execute successfully given the aforementioned circumstances.

At least it won't have brake to drift...unless they decide to redo the handling model.

 

[FT-1]

.
Personally, if the only option is to make lemonade out of lemons, I would prefer them to remake Prostreet. That would probably be the simplest and limited scope of game that they could execute successfully given the aforementioned circumstances.

I honestly think the best thing Ghost could do for 2019 is remaster a Black Box era game, I have a feeling a new title would be far too compromised to be released next year.

ProStreet would certainly be one of my top picks for a remaster, I believe the concept wasn't appreciated enough when it was released, it definitely deserves another chance. I think Most Wanted 2005 is another popular choice... I can't see the Underground series being remastered as it is based on a dated fad and the graphics would require too much work to appeal to the mainstream market.

 

[Sage Ages]

I wouldn't be too huge on a remaster. The Blackbox games so have their flaws and while the gameplay is usually good enough for people to overlook them, I think those games are long overdue for some changes/fixes...

...which I have no real confidence in a newer studio doing unless they start completely from scratch.

 

[CleanCut]

I used the wrong term when I made the suggestion that they remake Prostreet. Remasters don't interest me personally.

What I meant was that they should reboot Prostreet.

With Prostreet, they could keep the focus relatively narrow given the structure of the original:

1) Designing closed-circuit tracks should be easier than trying to make a bug-free open world.
2) They already have the customization architecture in place.
3) They already have most of the cars in place.
4) They HAD a similar upgrade structure in place with NFS 2015 - three tiers of performance upgrades = same as original Prostreet.
5) Payback offered a choice of three random upgrades upon winning an event = same as Prostreet.
6) They wouldn't have to worry about cops, which no doubt was a huge part of the design process in Payback. By rebooting Prostreet they could avoid the controversy and extra hassle altogether.
7) They could keep Speedcross (which I really enjoyed) and add a whole new type of event that the original didn't have.
8) They have already made Prostreet characters part of the Payback-verse... why not tie it all in? They could give us the Payback crew again PLUS Ryan Cooper. Heck, they could go all-in with the whole tampering-with-car-performance plot point and make Prostreet II a continuation of the Payback story.
Here I'll try: Demoralized after the Outlaw's Rush, Lina Navarro, now stripped of her power, tries to make a go of it in the closed-circuit race scene. Having access to the technology being utilized to fix races, she teams up with someone else bent on revenge: the original Prostreet villain, Ryo Wantanabe. Lina and Ryo, along with their race teams, will stop at nothing to destroy Tyler, Jess, Mac and Ryan, - on, or off the course!
9) The various characters would be utilized similar to Payback - each character would be assigned a different type of event - Tyler to race, Mac to SpeedX and drift, Ryan to drag, and so-on... - Aki Kimura could return with Noise Bomb on the side of the good guys, while Apex Glide could be the baddies.
10) They can use the Killswitch disabling action in Payback and incorporate it into gameplay following the premise of the plot I just suggested, along with other measures and countermeasure actions.

One guy (even the main guy) leaving Ghost Games doesn't mean their prior work suddenly vanished. I was just thinking that in terms of assets and time limitations, remaking a game like Prostreet would be less of a challenge (I would think) than making another open-world game and attempting to fulfill all of the wishes of a very polarized and jaded fanbase. As I listed the reasons above, I actually find myself getting fired up about the idea - it could be awesomely fun!

 

[ImaRobot]

..but do we really? I mean, without a more reliable estimate on the number of copies in circulation than what VGChartz provides, I can just as easily conclude the higher player number for 2015 is due to the game being sold second-hand more than Payback, which.. would imply the exact opposite of the player numbers.

My point is that we need some reliable numbers to cross-reference with before we can make any educated theories.

That's something that no one would be able to prove for any game though, not even direct sales numbers from devs like PD. I can't recall exactly, but I could have sworn Payback was in the bargain bin just as fast as 2015 was, or else I wouldn't have bought it to be honest. Whatever the case is, we know it has a ton of players on the PS4 side alone, that's not even taking the Xbox into consideration.

However, aren't these on those EA game trial subscription thing? That could very well be the case with these numbers

 

[TJ13]

So now it's 2019 and we should hopefully figure out what direction NFS will take.
Maybe a in-depth U3?

 

[FT-1]

So now it's 2019 and we should hopefully figure out what direction NFS will take.
Maybe a in-depth U3?

If what F8RGE said in the OP still stands, Need For Speed 2015 captured the essence of the series and 2019 should continue where that title left off. However, news has emerged of restructuring at Ghost Games since then, so 2019 could end up taking a different direction to what F8RGE hinted.

Since it hasn't been mentioned in the thread yet, Matt Webster is currently holding the most senior position in Ghost Games, who was a senior/executive producer at Criterion when games like Hot Pursuit 2010 and Most Wanted 2012 were in development. Depending on which theme you want the next game to take, that may be good or bad news for some.

 

[SestoScudo]

Make a game akin to Nfs High Stakes or NFS 2.

Racing in beautiful locations along with cops as an option.

Not to mention featuring sport cars, hypercars, classic cars, muscle cars, racing cars like GT1 or track based monsters like the FXXK.

Also no nitrous, no drifting in every corner. No weapons to take down cops like emp crap no ridiculous turbos.

Fictional or real locations a mix of both would be great. Even remaking the old tracks from past nfs games would be perfect.

Literally a remake of NFS 2 or high stakes just like how resident evil 2 got its full remake treatment.

 

[T0MMY3688]

Make a game akin to Nfs High Stakes or NFS 2.

Racing in beautiful locations along with cops as an option.

Not to mention featuring sport cars, hypercars, classic cars, muscle cars, racing cars like GT1 or track based monsters like the FXXK.

Also no nitrous, no drifting in every corner. No weapons to take down cops like emp crap no ridiculous turbos.

Fictional or real locations a mix of both would be great. Even remaking the old tracks from past nfs games would be perfect.

Literally a remake of NFS 2 or high stakes just like how resident evil 2 got its full remake treatment.

Other than not having cops, that is pretty much what Forza Horizon 3 and 4 has been for me, setting up races with cars from NFS 3 or 4 era in beautiful environment.

I think it is better for NFS to stick to the more "Underground" theme since there aren't any games that provide that level of visual customization anymore. I do hope NFS 2019 has a much better cop AI and free roam cops, something like the old Most Wanted 2005 will be nice.

 

[SestoScudo]

Other than not having cops, that is pretty much what Forza Horizon 3 and 4 has been for me, setting up races with cars from NFS 3 or 4 era in beautiful environment.

I think it is better for NFS to stick to the more "Underground" theme since there aren't any games that provide that level of visual customization anymore. I do hope NFS 2019 has a much better cop AI and free roam cops, something like the old Most Wanted 2005 will be nice.

Its more akin to Drive Club or PGR

 

[Moglet]

What's your take on this news?

I wouldn't read into it too much; it could be that he simply decided to leave and they've already got a replacement in place. If they haven't got a replacement yet then it either means they're not planning to replace him OR they just haven't found the right person. I'd imagine they would have others take on parts of his role temporarily in that case.

EDIT: That YouTube video on this is hilariously overblown. Staff come and go (even if they were the founder of a studio), any good studio will be able to deal with that and will have people in place to take over these roles. Does StraightUpHippo have any experience of working in the games industry or is he just guessing?

 

[FT-1]

I wouldn't read into it too much; it could be that he simply decided to leave and they've already got a replacement in place. If they haven't got a replacement yet then it either means they're not planning to replace him OR they just haven't found the right person. I'd imagine they would have others take on parts of his role temporarily in that case.

The replacement ended up being Matt Webster (who has been working at Ghost Since December 2017), as explained in this post:

Since it hasn't been mentioned in the thread yet, Matt Webster is currently holding the most senior position in Ghost Games, who was a senior/executive producer at Criterion when games like Hot Pursuit 2010 and Most Wanted 2012 were in development. Depending on which theme you want the next game to take, that may be good or bad news for some.

 

[Moglet]

The replacement ended up being Matt Webster (who has been working at Ghost Since December 2017), as explained in this post:

Oops, I totally missed that, sorry!