Need For Speed Payback General Discussion

[ImaRobot]

^^^ It's not exactly rubbish, either. The off-road handling in Payback is what all of the cars in NFS2015 felt like. Payback drives like a dream in comparison. Handling is similar to Carbon or Undercover. If they just fixed brake to drift a little bit, it would be more like MW05.

It driving better than the worst driving game on the market isn't exactly an achievement though. It's better, definitely, but it still needs work as there are still instances that leave you scratching your head. The brake to drift I could live with if they'd just have competent driving physics in general.

Still, I enjoy the game more than The Crew 2, at least.

 

[Sage Ages]

Well it's still based on the handling model from 2015 so I'd say it's still rubbish. Just patched up rubbish.

The crabwalking issue, though not as common as it was in 2015, still exists and seems to be cause by all of the drifting assists that they had added with that game.

Aside from this, tires don't exactly work right. You don't really lose grip at all, even when drifting, which is part of the reason why B2D has ended up becoming the dominant driving style as far as actual racing/lap times goes.

There's also plenty of smaller issues with the physics, handling, inputs, etc. that have just made the last few games not feel right.

 

[Ak1504]

I have 0 issues with the handling. I quite like it.

 

[SimTourist]

I think people shat on this game unfairly, it's not fantastic, but it's a pretty solid racer if you only have a PS4, far better than the Crew 1/2 for example, at least the handling is engaging, albeit not as good as Criterion's NFS HP and MW.

 

[Reameb]

I personally think 2015 was more entertaining, but it had it's problems, except i kind of like what most people dislike about this game (always night, always raining, mostly jdm), the extremely drifting handling and always online stuff as dumb, also no proper pause menu.

Payback got "better" physics (they are a modified version of 2015's, from the hot rod update iirc), and got way more variety of cars, a bit better story mode, but the cards thing was dumb, it had better customization tho, i'd say Payback is better because it does a better job to be liked by more people than 2015, but it still had it's downsides, got pretty much hate very quickly but it is fun to play nonetheless.

 

[CleanCut]

I know a lot of people decided to like 2015 more after Payback was released, but when I tried going back to 2015 I honestly couldn't. I DO like the style of 2015 much more, but Payback was so much more fleshed out in terms of sheer options - things to do, 2015 feels like an empty game by comparison.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I would add the handling model as one of the game's main issues. It's not exactly great.

I agree it's not great, but it's much improved from 2015. I know that's not exactly hard to do given 2015 is one of the worst handling racing games ever (and I've been playing them for 20 years now), but given my initial expectations weren't that great to begin with it's adequate. Off road handling still sucks though. Apart from that I think it's serviceable for this type of game. As long as you're not trying to set world record laptimes you can generally deal with its foibles and quirks. It could be much worse like The Crew for example.

IMO I think we are too far gone in the series to ever go back to tight, grip-faster-than-drift handling from NFSU/U2/MW/Carbon era. Best we can hope for is HP 2010 or MW 2012 brake drift handling that still makes sense when gripping if you're not going too fast. Currently Payback is somewhere in between those two, and is very reminiscent of NFS The Run in terms of sense of weight. I think it's an interesting handling model. While not necessarily perfect, I can live with it.

 

[vinz7531]

I personally prefer NFS payback handling than NFS HP 2010 handling
At least here you need to use brakes (for slowing down) and throttle (sometimes you shall not press it 100%)
I've had problem to get used to NFS MW 2005 driving, but with some practise it seems interesting.

 

[Sage Ages]

This ain't it chief.

 

[vinz7531]

This ain't it chief.

LOL. That's some hardcore dirty driving !

 

[CleanCut]

This ain't it chief.

Get gud, bro!

 

[ImaRobot]

Get gud, bro!

Is what we should be saying to the developers that let that pass

 

[Sage Ages]

Worth pointing out that the guy in the gif is turning left the entire time. Doesn't take a genius to know that shouldn't be happening.

 

[CleanCut]

Worth pointing out that the guy in the gif is turning left the entire time. Doesn't take a genius to know that shouldn't be happening.

I've watched that .gif at least 20 times and I've yet to figure out how you deduced that. When the car starts veering right you can't see his front wheels. I DO get that the handling is not to everyone's taste, but I've logged over 250 hours in the game and have never had a car behave like that.

 

[Sage Ages]

I've watched that .gif at least 20 times and I've yet to figure out how you deduced that.

The guy who made the .gif said he was turning left the whole time.

This doesn't occur as often as it did in 2015, but the fact of the matter is that it shouldn't be able to happen at all.

 

[ImaRobot]

I've watched that .gif at least 20 times and I've yet to figure out how you deduced that. When the car starts veering right you can't see his front wheels. I DO get that the handling is not to everyone's taste, but I've logged over 250 hours in the game and have never had a car behave like that.

I've had it happen very, very often in 2015, but not as much in Payback. That's not to say it doesn't happen at all though. It happens mostly in situations like that, when you make contact with something.

 

[CleanCut]

....when you make contact with something.

We've come full circle back to my previous post: Get gud bro!

 

[Sage Ages]

So are we just gonna ignore the fact that that's not how a car should move at all and that it never occured in any of the games before 2015? Not to mention that you don't have to hit anything for it to actually happen?

 

[CleanCut]

^^^ I've already given you my take. I haven't been frustrated with the handling at all, which is more than I can say for NFS2015. I saw a tremendous improvement from one to the next. So much so that I enjoy tooling around Payback's world. So depending on who "we" includes in your last post, then yeah, I'm gonna ignore it. It's not a game-breaker for me and even if Ghost kept the exact same handling model, I would be eagerly looking forward to the next game.

 

[FT-1]

While the physics in Payback are a huge leap over 2015 (Like... Actually being playable for a start), there is still room for improvement, even if Ghost Games wish to stick with the brake-to-drift model. As mentioned by previous posts, crab-walking is still as issue and if you haven't triggered it then... You are probably not driving fast enough to trigger a high speed crash.

I'd still buy NFS 19 (assuming Ghost is still pursuing a 2015-like theme) if it had the same physics as Payback, but it'll be disappointing if it's "quirks" still remain.

 

[ImaRobot]

We've come full circle back to my previous post: Get gud bro!

No, we actually didn't. The game constantly forces contact on you, like police chases for instance? This isn't an instance of lack of skill, it's an instance of terrible programming.

^^^ I've already given you my take. I haven't been frustrated with the handling at all, which is more than I can say for NFS2015. I saw a tremendous improvement from one to the next. So much so that I enjoy tooling around Payback's world. So depending on who "we" includes in your last post, then yeah, I'm gonna ignore it. It's not a game-breaker for me and even if Ghost kept the exact same handling model, I would be eagerly looking forward to the next game.

You're right, it did improve, and that's been acknowledged for the umpteenth time. It doesn't mean it doesn't have ridiculous annoying issues, though. Even with it's improvements, its still one of the games that I feel have the worst driving physics, only barely one-upping The Crew 2, but thats a given considering that game has a lot more than just cars.

Weird, when a new game comes out, I expect things to be worked on and improved, especially when there are glaringly obvious issues(just because you don't encounter it for whatever reason, doesn't mean that it's not happening), rather than left exactly the same. If I wanted the same I would just play the game that came out prior.

I'd still buy NFS 19 (assuming Ghost is still pursuing a 2015-like theme) if it had the same physics as Payback, but it'll be disappointing if it's "quirks" still remain.

Likewise. I'd buy it, but if it remains with the same exact issues for 5+ years, with little to no improvement, than that should be acknowledged.

 

[CleanCut]

^^^ The "full circle" comment was a joke bro, lighten up.

I would just like to point out that the M3 in that .gif would've ended up on the right-hand side of the tunnel even if the physics were more realistic. I've spent the last ten years in the auto collision repair/insurance industry and I've probably seen the results of more wrecks and more footage of wrecks than most of you combined, unless someone else around here is in the same line of work. The M3 struck the oncoming car with its right quarter panel. If the physics were 'MOAR REALISTIC,' this would've sent the M3 into a tailspin headed for the opposite side of the tunnel, because that's the direction the mass of the car was headed already - he was drifting toward the right. (An object in motion stays in motion, yadda yadda). To prove it, simply take the oncoming car out of the equation - if it didn't exist, where would the M3 have been headed? - Towards the wall. If the M3 had a glancing blow with the majority of its side with the NPC, it would've redirected the M3 forward. But that's not what happened. He hit with the quarter panel, which, as we all know, is the exact spot a cop would strike to perform a successful pit maneuver. I would argue that the results of where the M3 ended up was quite accurate. If anything, we should be faulting the animations for not being good enough, because the car should've been spinning 360's while headed for the tunnel wall.

 

[Sage Ages]

I would just like to point out that the M3 in that .gif would've ended up on the right-hand side of the tunnel even if the physics were more realistic.

The driving doesn't need to be realistic, it needs to be not broken. It's not so much the physics themselves that are the issue here (although it is related to that), but the built-in assists in the game's drifting mechanics that were added in 2015.

 

[CleanCut]

The driving doesn't need to be realistic, it needs to be not broken. It's not so much the physics themselves that are the issue here (although it is related to that), but the built-in assists in the game's drifting mechanics that were added in 2015.

I get the desire. I really do. I agree with you that the brake-to-drift mechanic is undesirable. I wish they would make a handling model that rewards grip racing properly.

My point in the previous exercise is that criticizing a handling model based on what happens when you hit an object is extremely subjective. When a person makes the complaint 'cars don't crash right!' 'My car should be steerable this way, physics be damned,' it is a very slippery slope of criticism indeed.

The basic complaint based on that particular .gif is "My car went the opposite direction of where I was steering." Correct? But the laws of [real] physics dictates that the car did indeed travel in the 'correct' direction, regardless of controller input. The funny thing is, the exact same thing happens in the real world during a wreck. Cars often travel in a direction that the driver did not intend.

I'm not saying that the crash physics are beyond reproach, I'm just saying that choosing a crash to base a criticism on introduces a huge chaos factor. A much more objective exercise would be to critique the handling during normal driving with no impacts. If the car steered in an opposite direction than controller input and was not sliding or otherwise out of control, then yeah, we'd have a big problem. I personally have never experienced that in Payback. I have seen that very thing in NFS2015 however, and I'm sure there are hundreds of .gifs out there to prove it. (I'm looking at YOU, magnetic walls!)

Controller input is so subjective - in racing games more than any other genre. We complain about the "handling" in a game, but rarely complain that "my avatar in COD runs one direction when I tell him to go the other way." That's probably the same reason why it's so hard for developers to find the perfect sweet spot.

 

[Sage Ages]

I agree with you that the brake-to-drift mechanic is undesirable.

Brake-to-drift isn't even exclusively the problem here. Just the spaghetti code they added to it in 2015 that broke everything.

My point in the previous exercise is that criticizing a handling model based on what happens when you hit an object is extremely subjective.

As previously stated, this can happen at anytime, not just crashing. That gif I posted is just one of the more commonly used examples in the community.

I'm not saying that the crash physics are beyond reproach

The crash physics aren't the problem. It's just one of the things that can trigger crab-walking to happen.

If the car steered in an opposite direction than controller input and was not sliding or otherwise out of control, then yeah, we'd have a big problem.

Except that:

1. That's exactly what's happening here.
2. You aren't out of control when drifting in this game (mainly because it's faked and you're not really drifting, but that's another issue entirely). Drifting in previous games has always been entirely predictable and the car didn't launch itself perpendicularly no matter what happened. Meanwhile, something as simple as a weird set of inputs will just make the game freak out and throw you sideways

 

[CleanCut]

Except that:

1. That's exactly what's happening here.
2. You aren't out of control when drifting in this game (mainly because it's faked and you're not really drifting, but that's another issue entirely). Drifting in previous games has always been entirely predictable and the car didn't launch itself perpendicularly no matter what happened. Meanwhile, something as simple as a weird set of inputs will just make the game freak out and throw you sideways

To put it more succinctly than in my previous post, you seem to be saying that driving down the road and/or otherwise 'normal' racing/drifting the car will decide to take itself another direction, but you are using an example of a crash to demonstrate it. That's comparing apples to oranges in my opinion.

I have not experienced the phenomenon you are describing of playing the game, looking down at my controller and going "what the heck just happened? My car did not do what I told it to!" I will, however, pay more close attention when I play the game the next time and report back. Typically, we don't pay as much attention to technicalities when we are enjoying something, so it's possible that because I'm enjoying the game, I'm not noticing the faults you are describing. I am open-minded enough to admit that.

I HAVE had my car start going straight midway through a low-speed drift. It happens when the throttle input is too weak and the tires catch grip. It is another phenomenon that happens in real life. I also know how to make it NOT happen in the game. Personally, I found the drifting in (just to throw out another NFS example) Prostreet to be infinitely harder than Payback. The whole 'suddenly launch perpendicularly' thing happened in that game regardless of horsepower!

 

[ImaRobot]

If you’ve experienced in game what we’re actually talking about, than in no way would any of its movements make sense in any form in the real world. None whatsoever.

What happens is you’re turning one direction and what feels like it might be the hand of god, propels the vehicle in the complete opposite direction as if you’re turning full lock to the opposite side all the while your car is still positioned as if you’re turning left, stops mid way through again, and now the hand of god propels it back the other direction. What I’m betting it is is the initiation and uninitiation of the drift mechanic.

 

[CleanCut]

^^^ Holy heck! No, I've not experienced that. I'm curious though, as to what platform you or Sage Ages are playing on. I'm playing on PC - any chance that might have something to do with it?

 

[Sage Ages]

PS4.

Mind if I ask what exactly is your technique for drifting? I've noticed that countersteering seems to cause it to happen at times.

 

[ImaRobot]

Xbox One X for me.

PS4.

Mind if I ask what exactly is your technique for drifting? I've noticed that countersteering seems to cause it to happen at times.

You saying that leads me back to me bringing up the brake to drift mechanic. If you don’t fully commit to it on turn in I feel the whole mechanic gets confused if you try to counter steer mid turn, like you’d expect to typically react to a situation like that in other games, or real life. Maybe the counter steering is somehow deactiviating it and steering back in reactivitates it, causing that weird boost of momentum in the opposite direction.