Need Help Getting Better

[TheWizard]

Oh thanks that thread really helped out alot with question I had.

👍 Glad to hear it.

Cheers

The Wizard.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Oh well, looks like I am digressing too much... Enough with my physics/dynamics lecture, I am sure nobody cares and everybody will think I am a geek after reading this, but hey, somebody can love the GT series, math, and physics all at the same time... I am the living proof!

The Wizard.

I'm sure you're not the only one interested in GT, math and physics

At least I am and I know a few others. We're all interested in GT, that's obvious, I think

 

[TheWizard]

At least I am and I know a few others. We're all interested in GT, that's obvious, I think

👍 At least I am not alone


The Wizard.

 

[Azuremen]

Tire squeling is not always good.

It could mean you are simply exceding the limits, and those losing traction. I prefer to only hear just a little bit, at the entry preferably.

Trial braking from what I understand is slightly different that what was posted here...

Drivers School Manual[/i]]II. Trail Braking
During this school, we've stressed that all braking must be completed while your
vehicle is traveling in a straight line. There is, however, another theory ascribed
to by some experts (an expert is anyone who has more experience than you).
The theory is that to be fast, the driver must trail the brakes into the turn. Those
who advocate Trail Braking include Skip Barber and Bob Bondurant, among
others.

Former World Champion Jackie Stewart, among others holds to the view that
braking should be completed before turning in. Mr. Stewart, when asked about
trail braking as advocated by Barber, Bondurant, et al., responded with a
question of his own, "How many world championships have they won?"
I don't know who is correct, however, I think a very good driver should know how
to do both. I have found that trail braking works very well in some turns in all
cars and perhaps for all corners in some cars.

Here's how it works. Threshold braking is used just as we've instructed. Just as
you reach the turn-in point, however, the brakes are not fully released but are
continued slightly as the car is turned in. If you use too much brake, the car may
spin.

To get the proper amount of braking, imagine a left turn and that yo ur hands on
the wheel and your foot on the brake pedal are connected by a solid rod. In
order to turn the wheel, you must also raise your foot off the brake pedal. The
more you turn the wheel, the more your foot must raise off the brake pedal.
Trailing the brake will keep more of the vehicle's weight on the front tires, yielding
more traction there and the car will turn in very well. The rear tires, however, will
have less weight and therefore less traction. As the vehicle is turned in, the rear
of the vehicle will begin to slowly come around (rotate toward the outside of the
turn) and point the front-end toward the Apex. As soon as the car is pointed
toward the Apex, the throttle is squeezed on, transferring weight (and traction) to
the rear tires. The rear tires will gain traction, stop sliding and the car will
accelerate toward the Apex. If throttle is not applied at the proper instant, the
rear may continue to slide which may result in a spin.

For corners that trail braking works well on, it works very, very well.

CAUTION, the transitions between threshold braking, trailing the brakes, turning
in and application of throttle must be performed extremely smoothly. In addition,
when trail braking is used, the steering wheel is turned less than it would be
turned without trail braking. Without trail braking, only the front steering is used
to get the car turned into the Apex. When trail braking is used, however, the rear
end rotating out has the effect of adding some steering.

We recommend that novices do not attempt trail braking. If you want to learn it,
wait until you have more high performance driving experience or go to Skip
Barber's school and learn trail braking in his cars.

Thats how I understand it.

Has its merits, but only in certain corners...

 

[TheWizard]

That's awesome information there, Azuremen. I did a search on these fora (plural for the latin word forum, for those who are wondering) for Allen G. Huebner and I didn't come up with any more information, so I used good old trusty Google, and I found a pdf version of the book, with this title "Drivers School Manual". Looks like I will have some interesting reading to do for the next few days . Do you know if that pdf version is the full version, or if it is just an extract of a possible hard copy of the book?

As for tires squealing, I know what you mean... the sound they produce when they squeal is the direct effect of friction between tires and asphalt constantly being lost and regained, so, yes, you are already losing traction there. The ideal would be to take the turns at a speed such that your tires don't do that (but they are about to - so you would be at their limit). Furthermore, sound (in this case) derives from some of the energy being converted to sound waves, so, technically if the tires squeal you are "wasting" some of the energy to produce sound, instead than turning/accelerating the car... Here I go talking physics again

I better stop...
Later.

The Wizard.

 

[Azuremen]

Perfectly fine talking Physics with me... 5 on the AP exam when I was in High School, and orginally planned to go into Astrophysics (doing graphic Design now )

Typically, what causes the sound is the front tires suffering understeer. Try letting the steering relax a little, and you might find the noise gone, and you gaining a little more speed.

As for the book, I have no idea, I just have the PDF as well. It is extremely useful information. Helped me with autocrossing and what not. Alot of what I think when it comes to racing is stuff I've learned talking with a friend of mine about autocrossing. He took first place in class at every event he was at last season, in his 240SX. Quite a bit of knowledge there

About the WRS, try it. An amazingly honest group of people, that are quite friendly. You might be able to get on this week, one of the most enjoyable ones I've been in so far. But no one is making ya, and you aren't obligated to race all the time if ya do.

 

[Duke]

Well, a belated welcome to TheWizard! Glad to have ever more intelligent, scientific members aboard.

Read up on the "Settings and Tunings" board as well - often the discussion digresses into driving technique as well as setups. You can search for posts by ///M-spec and sukerkin and take their words to the bank.

On the subject of trail braking, it's been summed up well above where it works on all cars some of the time and some cars all of the time. My Neon, like many FWD cars, responds very well to trail braking and throttle lift to get it rotated in tighter corners.

 

[Stinky Chicken]

Once again I'm late on the scene... what exactly is trailbraking?

 

[Azuremen]

Look at my post... just a few up, has a nice professional explanation...

 

[TheWizard]

About the WRS, try it. An amazingly honest group of people, that are quite friendly. You might be able to get on this week, one of the most enjoyable ones I've been in so far. But no one is making ya, and you aren't obligated to race all the time if ya do.

Ok, you all convinced me/I made up my mind... I will join the WRS as soon as I get my Action Replay MAX Drive

Well, a belated welcome to TheWizard! Glad to have ever more intelligent, scientific members aboard.

Thank you for your warm welcome, I appreciate somebody appreciating my knowledge/intelligence Be careful though, I might start getting cocky
... no worries, j/k

The Wizard.

 

[Hyundai Racer]

Here are some tips to racing better:

- Use the in car camera view, not the outside one. You can better control the car like this.
- Race with manual transmission, not automatic. You have better control of the engine like this.
- Use the right analog stick for accelerate/brake and the left one for turning. (better yet, get a quality wheel, like the Logitech ones)
- Use the L2/R2 buttons for downshift/upshift.
- Use L1 for rear view, R1 for handbrake.
- Try your hardest at the license tests. The better you get here the better driver you will be.
- For low lap times, always use the stickiest tires (T8), but for Professional level and Enduro races you should get used to racing with the T2 tires.

If you haven't been racing like I mentioned above, then now is a good time to start. It may take a while to get used to using the controls like I mentioned, but it will pay off in the long runs.

 

[Azuremen]

I don't use the right analog stick for gas/brake, and I'm fairly competive in the WRS. And the controller layout is a matter of personal taste, I use the default still.

T2 tires are my norm for most races.

And license exams, annoying as they maybe, are helpful...

 

[vipersan]

I agree - license tests are VER helpful. But driving with DS2 and the setup of controller is just personal thing. But anyway - I never used that controller, I just use the wheel. Because I am motorically incompetent and can't drive competative with DS2. But that's just me .

 

[lynk26]

well, i did what you guys said a while back about the licenses. it took me like 8 freaking hours to get all the golds up through S license, i thought i was gonna die it took forever. but i did manage to figure out my weaknesses. it was actually kinda simple its stupid, but it was braking and my line. my braking was terrible i guess. and i cant find the racing line for crap. so i been practicing up, and i managed to get better at my braking. any tips for trying to find the right line through turns would be much appreciated. the sooner the better too, cuz i been putting this little trueno through hell and back trying to get better times with it lol. i noticed something with the better braking though. in the turns i drift through, when i look at the replays, im drifting cuz i can see some countersteer (its slight though) but no smoke is coming outta the tires. am i doin something wrong?


btw, i posted my times at gttimes.com, if you run a search on ranks 1 - 1000, 1 - 400 HP, any drivetrain, and look for lynk26 you can see some of my times that ive done. i noticed that i still need to get better though...

also, how is that darn Xsara Rally Car and Motorsport Elise so fast?! my times cant compare with theirs.... is the handling on those cars that good??

 

[Boundary Layer]

Thank you for your warm welcome, I appreciate somebody appreciating my knowledge/intelligence Be careful though, I might start getting cocky
... no worries, j/k

The Wizard.

I'll keep him in check and make sure he's not posting any bogus physics, or crooked calculus
but ya, always good to have another fellow engineering student active on the boards.
👍

any tips for trying to find the right line through turns would be much appreciated.

I found it was sometimes helpful to change camera perspectives from chase to bumper, or vice versa. It helps to really get the track pounded into your head from all angles. Also, watch your replays - and use the disk eject trick
(do the music replay mode, but pop the game disk out after it starts. The music will stop, and camera will stop cycling. It might be a good idea to remove your mem card before doing so, just incase).
By this method you can cycle to a camera that offers a top down shot that might make errors more obvious, and maintain that view as long as you like. Just remember to shove the disk tray back in before exiting the replay mode.

just a thought

 

[TheWizard]

I'll keep him in check and make sure he's not posting any bogus physics, or crooked calculus
but ya, always good to have another fellow engineering student active on the boards. 👍

Don't forget to check my other old posts too, there's quite a bit of physics talk in pretty much each one of them, lol!

About the perfect line (I am going to take yet one more chance to talk some more physics )... the perfect line around a corner is the line (or should I really say curve) such that its radius is the largest possible. In other words, if you are turning right, you want to enter the turn at the furthest left possible (asphalt permitting, of course) then close in such that your car is tangent to the right apex (extreme inside edge) and exit the turn at the furthest left extreme again. This allows you to take the corner at the highest speed possible for that particular corner/car/tires combination.

...use the disk eject trick (do the music replay mode, but pop the game disk out after it starts. The music will stop, and camera will stop cycling.) ... By this method you can cycle to a camera that offers a top down shot that might make errors more obvious, and maintain that view as long as you like...

I learn something new everyday 👍
And I so totally thought I knew everything already...

The Wizard.

 

[Boundary Layer]

I learn something new everyday 👍
And I so totally thought I knew everything already...
The Wizard.

hah! three words..... ENTHALPY...ENTROPY...EXERGY!!!
*insert evil cartoonish 'DUN Dun dun' here*

hehe, sorry to the other viewers, a little bit of my inner thermodynamicist came through there, kind of sounds like some crazy witchcraft spell though

its an inside joke with the Wiz and I.

 

[TheWizard]

hah! three words..... ENTHALPY...ENTROPY...EXERGY!!!

I know you didn't just say THAT ^
On a second look, yeah, you DID say that...
emh... [TheWizard whistles indifferently pretending he doesn't know what "joke" TankSpanker is referring to...]

And for the people that are wondering, no that's not a spelling mistake... there is really such a thing as exergy.

The Wizard.

 

[kart racer]

👍 The time trials are another good place to improve your driving skills.once you beat the best times on all tests,you get a great car.

 

[vipersan]

with license tests you also have replays od best time of the maker's of the game. you can watch them too for tips on line and braking points.