New Honda CRZ Type R for 2012
- Thread starter blaaah
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Not sure, but I reckon Honda might have a real CR-Z-R up their sleeves.
And hightyme, the CR-Z Mugen isn't turbocharged, it's supercharged. The turbo'd car was the rumoured car from page one - you'd do well to read the other pages as the topic has changed a little after five pages
And hightyme, the CR-Z Mugen isn't turbocharged, it's supercharged. The turbo'd car was the rumoured car from page one - you'd do well to read the other pages as the topic has changed a little after five pages
CodeRedR51
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Mugen and Honda may have different approaches to the CRZ.
Honda might see a turbo as more beneficial to their whole range of models in the future.
Am I right in thinking a turbo is more suited to high rpm than a supercharger? Because Honda want to keep the Type R brand as a mark for high revving engines.
Honda might see a turbo as more beneficial to their whole range of models in the future.
Am I right in thinking a turbo is more suited to high rpm than a supercharger? Because Honda want to keep the Type R brand as a mark for high revving engines.
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Cant say I agree with that...^
I mean kill that 8k plus rpm k20 to replace it with cookie cutter acura tl k24 redlining 1k lower doesnt boast well for the love of high revs.
That said Im indifferent with anything they use for a true type-r, chances are no matter what is used it will work well and create a great car, I just hope they pull it off for the crz.
I mean kill that 8k plus rpm k20 to replace it with cookie cutter acura tl k24 redlining 1k lower doesnt boast well for the love of high revs.
That said Im indifferent with anything they use for a true type-r, chances are no matter what is used it will work well and create a great car, I just hope they pull it off for the crz.
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homeforsummerAnd hightyme, the CR-Z Mugen isn't turbocharged, it's supercharged. The turbo'd car was the rumoured car from page one - you'd do well to read the other pages as the topic has changed a little after five pages
lol for sure, I read the opening page... though a boosted Honda from factory does still get me going, even if it's just a supercharger. & ya the RDX is the only factory turbo right now, but it's not very sporty... for what it is, it's alright.
There are many factory turbo Honda's. Diesel though.
To increase sales in Europe they might consider putting the 2.2 TD engine in the CRZ. 138/147bhp with no electric hybrid. Would be popular. Though I would hate it.
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Keef
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Honda is basically out of the sporting business at the moment. They're steadily turning into Toyota - a front-drive sports coupe that looks like a young girl wearing a summer dress with a cute little behind is just not going to keep its sporting image alive. All the competition is more powerful, more capable, tougher, stronger, faster.
Mazda has embraced turbocharging, isn't afraid to put a big engine in a small hatchback, is redesigning its rotary completely to be bigger, more efficient, and much more powerful, and is also adding lightness to its next generation roadster. If you want a Japanese brand with real sporting credentials, that's all we're left with.
Then again, Honda has always been a very conservative company. A good company. They're neglecting a market that isn't the most profitable in the world, and that's one reason Mazda is so small. You can't support a giant company like Honda by catering to a niche market.
Mazda has embraced turbocharging, isn't afraid to put a big engine in a small hatchback, is redesigning its rotary completely to be bigger, more efficient, and much more powerful, and is also adding lightness to its next generation roadster. If you want a Japanese brand with real sporting credentials, that's all we're left with.
Then again, Honda has always been a very conservative company. A good company. They're neglecting a market that isn't the most profitable in the world, and that's one reason Mazda is so small. You can't support a giant company like Honda by catering to a niche market.
The new SI drivetrain has replaced the K20 (albeit it in a heretical I'm now driving a Camry type of way) which may lend the market to offering the K20 in the CRZ...it wouldn't cannibalize sales now that the SI is more "grown up." But I really wouldn't mind a 1.6L turbo in a stripped down CRZ with one recaro, a roll cage, no sound dapening, and a mugen steering wheel. 
I agree with you entirely but keep in mind, focusing on highly enginered products and developing a cult following for their passion for performance and reliability is what made them the conglomerate they are today....alienating a niche market is more dangerous than tayloring to it...Honda needs to be careful. I see them going down the same complacent road as GM...attempting to be all things to all people while a smaller more agile competitor (Mazda) develops vehicles that meet the needs of the market better. I still own an 88' hatch with a b16 and that thing is still by far the most entertaining car I've ever owned.
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It isn't like Honda does not build type Rs anymore, just their presence is much less pronounced. When you think about 90's Honda you think about lightness and excitement, best FWD on the market.... but they got bigger, has a very confusing lineup (japan version vs euro/us version that is completely different looking) and their design language is all over the place, old Type Rs are simple but sharp looking, the new ones are a mix of futurism and carries a lot of baggage from the less aggressive models.
And problem is other has caught up too, in terms of pure performance there are competition from GTi,Seat,Focus, Megane etc etc. Some are even more hardcore than the Type Rs. And the one thing that set the TypeRs apart - the pitchy engine is now more designed towards a wide torque range and less extreme power delivery.
The whole image is diluted and it is just a result of global marketing strategy, It is now much more Acura but less Honda.
And problem is other has caught up too, in terms of pure performance there are competition from GTi,Seat,Focus, Megane etc etc. Some are even more hardcore than the Type Rs. And the one thing that set the TypeRs apart - the pitchy engine is now more designed towards a wide torque range and less extreme power delivery.
The whole image is diluted and it is just a result of global marketing strategy, It is now much more Acura but less Honda.
CodeRedR51
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Im not sure its really fair to judge others like mazda by their plans and others by the current status. I mean, Mazda current has a sad replacement of a great car (rx7 to rx8), a "heavy miata" even tsuchiya admitted wasnt up to par with the pontiac solstice, and while the 3 is a great sport compact and the 6 is supposed o be sporty, the majority of the line is typical stuff with great advertising (sorry but Im not buying the idea of a sporty suv).
On the other side of the coin is a company like toyota, dull and bland but plans show a company trying to make a cheap rwd and a japanese racing scene using existing products we over look because they arent the cream of the crop (isf, lfa, etc), likewise for old stuff like the hachi rokus that still race today.
Imho, everyone is struggling with modern standards when it comes to efficient, reliable, sports worthy cars.
That said, Im still not happy with the current state of honda.
On the other side of the coin is a company like toyota, dull and bland but plans show a company trying to make a cheap rwd and a japanese racing scene using existing products we over look because they arent the cream of the crop (isf, lfa, etc), likewise for old stuff like the hachi rokus that still race today.
Imho, everyone is struggling with modern standards when it comes to efficient, reliable, sports worthy cars.
That said, Im still not happy with the current state of honda.
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Quite. The BTCC Honda means a lot to Honda fans inside the UK, and absolutely zero to anyone anywhere else.
Not to mention you can't buy a road-going version with a turbocharger, so it's not like it has much relevance to their range.
And likewise, DC2 Type R aside (which the UK only got for a few years), Honda's FWD reputation has only really held up outside of Europe where the vast majority of 90s Hondas were considered pretty average compared to European rivals. All those Civic Sis and VTis that everyone raves about? Almost universally ranked behind the equivalent hot Peugeot, Renault, Citroen etc.
I'm not argueing that Honda didn't used to make great cars because they clearly did, but it's worth remembering this whole "great handling FWD" rep is limited only really to countries that never got anything better...
None in the UK at the moment, but they had a presence in the BTCC in the mid 1990s with the Xedos 6 and 323. And I think there are a few 6s/Atenzas running in series elsewhere in the world.
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CodeRedR51
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It could about to be next year or so.
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Problem with the stock CR-Z over here in The Netherlands, is that it has too much emissions for it to benefit from all the tax exemptions like the other hybrids, and it's simply not up to the competition for people that want a hot hatch. Add on top that most people here are not fond of design that's anything other than middle-of-the-road. Damn' shame, because I really like how it looks, and there's hardly an option list, because it comes with everything standard. Of course, that makes it quite attractive for people that want something different, but it really is a rarity over here. That Mugen seems really great, but I doubt I'll ever get to see one 'live' over here...
Keef
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You should keep in mind that the Street Tuner class is allowed to run up to 260 horsepower, depending on the car, they all have various aftermarket and custom modifications, and each different car has to meet certain weight restrictions. All the rules are meant to level the playing field, so all the different cars are quite competitive. Cars' performance in that series has little to do with their performance from the factory.
Keef
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According to the August 2010 issue of Honda Tuning, the team's Civic Si is allowed a myriad of engine internals and management modifications.
EDIT: According to the July issue of Automobile, ST cars run from 250-300 hp and weigh from 2350-3100 pounds, while GS cars run from 350-405 hp and weigh 2700-3300 pounds.
EDIT: According to the July issue of Automobile, ST cars run from 250-300 hp and weigh from 2350-3100 pounds, while GS cars run from 350-405 hp and weigh 2700-3300 pounds.
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Eric.
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Hm, I guess that wasn't the truth then, if I'm even remembering it right. I did just find a link on a Skunk2 product page saying the Compass360 car produces "upwards of 240whp". That's definitely including some internals. Bolt-ons and a tune are good for like 200-215whp I think. Stock Si weight is 2870 for the coupe and 2950 for the sedan.
Actually, its not a whole lot more than bolt ons. But they start with a Type R engine for some reason, so there's your extra power.
Propulsion
JDM K20 Type R engines
Reinforced engine mounts
Custom Skunk2 intake systems
Skunk2 MegaPower headers
Skunk2 MegaPower R exhausts
Balanced and blueprinted engines
Custom forged pistons
C&R aluminum radiators
Hondata engine management systems
Actually, its not a whole lot more than bolt ons. But they start with a Type R engine for some reason, so there's your extra power.
Propulsion
JDM K20 Type R engines
Reinforced engine mounts
Custom Skunk2 intake systems
Skunk2 MegaPower headers
Skunk2 MegaPower R exhausts
Balanced and blueprinted engines
Custom forged pistons
C&R aluminum radiators
Hondata engine management systems
