New Immigration Laws The US Should Adopt

[YSSMAN]

If I recall, the French have some pretty stringent immigration laws as well that do not necessarily have avenues for citizenship like we do here in America.

...I think my biggest problem with our current laws stems from the 14th Amendment of our Constitution...

Amendment 14, Section 1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Ummmm, okay. This is also the reason why we have pregnant females crossing the border into our country just to have a baby so that they can stay here. Abuse of the system? You bet. By having a child here, they are also entitled to the benefits of our social systems, meaning that someone who may actually deserve it may not get the aid they need.

...At least in France they have the common sense in which you must be born to some kind of French parent to become a French citizen. If not, you may eventually be able to become one, but it isn't guaranteed...

---

Am I the only one spotting the irony of the fact the USA (as we know it) was built by foreigners? Likewise Britain and many countries where people seem to hate the foreigners that built their country.

I believe this was already said before, but the big difference is that most of America was built by legal immigrants, not illegal immigrants. My ancestors that came off the boat from the Netherlands, signed the book, and became citizens the way they were supposed to... They didn't have to sneak across the border under the cover of darkness, knowing what they are doing violates the sovereignty of a nation, with the intent of breaking federal law.

...They could make Mexico better for themselves, and chances are, America would be happy to help...

 

[Talentless]

Regardles of who's right about the impact of more or less immigration, legal or not, it does seem to me that the so-called open borders advocates are the most disingenuous. They not only often refuse to respect valid legal terms, they choose to see only the potential positives of a mass influx of immigration, acting as if the bad consequences are wholly impossible.

 

[Solid Lifters]

It does not pay to hire illegals anymore. They know the game. Sue, sue and sue some more. Most of the time, they don't come here to work. They'll work briefly, then file a lawsuit and then offer the business a chance to settle. Once they do, it's back to Mexico with money. However, not all immigrants know the game, but it's still a gamble because they soon will learn. But, if hiring illegals is near the cost of hiring Americans, if this is not a lo-skill job, then businesses would be better off hiring Americans and so will America.

But, I understand that most of the laws listed don't involve employment. I just thought I'd grab your attention to how Mexico treats foreigners and which is much different to how Mexico expects us to treat their citizens while in our country. Saying we SHOULD adopt all these laws was for discussion purposes and I do not support all laws.

I often wonder why people not born in Mexico cannot own land. I often hear of scams in Mexico from Americans who claim there were tricked into buying land near the beach and actually thought they would own it forever. Then, the business is sold and the new owners tell everybody to get lost. It seems this law is in direct support of these scams, and nothing else.

It's also well known that Mexico will wait for family of an severely injured person to pay cash before any serious medical treatment is performed on their family member. Many people have died before either being moved to America for treatment, or some family member to come down there with cash. Yet, we often never read or hear about it. Yes, I do think something like this would work for America. Just not as severe as how the Mexicans do it.

Yes, the laws above are for immigrants both legal and not legal. Also, foreign visitors to America. It would have to be. How would we know if they were just visiting, or staying here illegally?

Though, not all laws should be as harsh and blunt as they've been listed. What's listed is how Mexico treats foreigners and how the double standard exists. That's more the intent of this thread.

 

[a6m5]

No offense to any Mexican Nationals here, but their government is messed up, period. So many Americans visit Mexico on vacation, and I'll never understand it. I've heard so many horror stories from the TV, or people I've known who's from there, or have visited there.

They don't need those unfriendly laws against foreigners as far as I'm concerned. I'll never visit Mexico by choice.

 

[kennythebomb]

You don't think Americans are willing to work in a factory for $7.50??

You don't think people are willing to mow lawns and clean up? I happen to know white folks who have done all that stuff.

But, if nobody were willing to clean toilets for minimum wage, do you know what would happen? Toilets would go uncleaned? No no.... the price for a toilet cleaner would go up. And then they'd get cleaned.

I think people are not realizing something here.

If we go way back to the early foundations of this country, it was certain ethnic groups that would be the ones doing the dirty jobs no one else would do. Every time there was a mass influx from some part of Europe in the 1800s, those people would assume the worst jobs and earn their way into America. Then the groups of people who had been here for a generation or two would typically move on to better jobs. At one point I know the Irish were treated like our illegal Mexicans... as the sub-human scum of our country that took jobs no one else would.

And you know what? Those Irish did it without complaining much. And guess what guys? They were all legal immigrants.

The fact is we don't need illegal immigrants to fill the jobs - the lowest 'caste' of our society will fill them in regardless.

 

[///M-Spec]

On your next post you said "Of course I mean legal immigrants." but by that time I was already replying to ///M-Spec and when I went back to read yours, your "Of course I mean legal immigrants." slipped out of my sight, and I was in a hurry 'cause I had to leave. So yes, you're right about that. I really thought you were talking about the "illegals".

Okay, so it looks like it was just a misunderstanding.

On the subject of illegal immigration, my views are well documented in this forum so I won't bore you with them except to say this: illegal immigration is not only a slap in the face of natural born Americans, but also to every legal immigrant or naturalized citizen that has done the right thing and gone through the process. That angers me.


M

 

[Swift]

Okay, so it looks like it was just a misunderstanding.

Yep, nice to get that cleared up.

On the subject of illegal immigration, my views are well documented in this forum so I won't bore you with them except to say this: illegal immigration is not only a slap in the face of natural born Americans, but also to every legal immigrant or naturalized citizen that has done the right thing and gone through the process. That angers me.


M

As it should every American citizen/permanent resident.

 

[YSSMAN]

The thing that astounds me every time we are on this subject in my Poli Sci classes is that people actually come out and defend these illegals no matter what they do. Then what amazes me even more is how quickly those who disagree with them are classified as racists.

...No side will win until the Government decides to do something. And we all know that will never happen...

 

[Sureboss]

I've heard they can be quite greasy, which means oil, which means.....

:bigstir:

 

[Philly]

The thing that astounds me every time we are on this subject in my Poli Sci classes is that people actually come out and defend these illegals no matter what they do. Then what amazes me even more is how quickly those who disagree with them are classified as racists.

Well, of course. Anybody can pull the race card to use to back them up. The sad thing is that it works from time to time. Race is a sensitive subject and nobody wants to be considered rascist, no matter how much they actually are.

As for defending the illegals, every issue has two sides and there will always be someone to defend the minority side to the bitter end. It will happen anywhere.

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

Immigration is a tricky subject. The laws do need to be amended though. While I have noting against immigrants, I do not support illegal immigration. If you want to come to America, fine. But do it the legal way like everyone else. People can come over here illegally, and get jobs, and in some cases, rights usually allowed only to citizens. How is that fair to those who immigrated legally, and had to go go through the naturalization process to do the same. A recent trend is Anchor babies, illegal immigrants coming over in time to give birth, so the child is automatically a citizen, and the parents can gain certain benefits from said citizenship. Again, how is this fair to all other, legal immigrants? It's not.

Oh, and I love the whole, "let's see Americans do the jobs illegals do" argument. The only reason Americans don't do those jobs is that the pay is too low. Lets use a high-school dropout as example, given the low opportunities. Why would he compete with the illegals and mow lawns for less than minimum wage, when he could just as easily get a job bagging groceries for minimum wage? If didn't turn a blind eye to the low wage issue, and made all jobs pay the minimum, I'm sure people other than illegals would be willing to work them.

The problem lies not with immigration as a whole, just with the illegal side.

 

[Barracuda]

3 wheel drive, you stole what i was going to say, lol.

maybe if we had better border patrol instead of just the minute men this wouldn't be as much as a large scale problem.

I think if someone comes to America, they should be able to fluently speak the language. I know English is hard but it gets annoying when you cant understand a word that someone is saying because of how heavy there accent is. for example, there is this muslim girl in our class and 1. she asks a question every damn second and 2. The teacher and most of the class ( except for the black kids, no offense ) can understand a word of what she is saying. she has to repeat everything 3-5 times before anybody gets what she is somewhat trying to say and in turn, this takes away from how much we learn in that class each day.

 

[Talentless]

So this was my last post before my most recent one. Almost 2 years ago.

 

[slowman]

Hmm... I wonder why we have so many illegal immigrants? Possibly the system is set up to encourage simply jumping the fence?

 

[seckcimike]

Yes as for my previous response , please read this so you have an idea what im talking about, its hard for me to explain in details but this will provide you enough information on where im coming from and give me your thoughts and agreements about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

 

[Danoff]

...imported from the Obama presidency thread.

I forgot to mention this from the start this amnesty aims for the more young illegal aliens who where brought here by their parents, they had no choice.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

It doesn't matter. Giving their children amnesty is still encouragement for their parents to come here illegally. We should be taking steps to solve the problem - not worried about being fair to someone else's children.

 

[FoolKiller]

Yes as for my previous response , please read this so you have an idea what im talking about, its hard for me to explain in details but this will provide you enough information on where im coming from and give me your thoughts and agreements about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

This is almost nothing like the amnesty with a penalty system you were describing in the Obama Presidency thread. This only goes for illegal immigrants who came here as children, before the age of consent.

The problem is that it requires college or military service, and those are both voluntary things to a US citizen. Offering them a chance to be nationalized is one thing, but forced college (expensive) or military service (you could die) is not cool.

However, you were saying that having them all pay a penalty and then becoming citizens was your plan and that doesn't work, because it allows anyone to circumvent the legal process.

Similarly my state has a thing where I don't get points on my drivers license for speeding if I pay my court costs and go to traffic school (no fine for speeding required) and I am allowed to do that once a year. Why once a year? Because it doesn't prevent speeding.

 

[seckcimike]

Well as i was saying this could be a start, and yea if this law is passed you will be required to do 2 years college or 2 years military service, i dont think thats asking for too much.


This is for Danoff, this will not encourage any parents to do so, why? because it has a time limit of probably just months, this doesnt happen too often, the last one was in 1986 more than 20 years ago.

 

[Danoff]

This is for Danoff, this will not encourage any parents to do so, why? because it has a time limit of probably just months, this doesnt happen too often, the last one was in 1986 more than 20 years ago.

..and? They're not willing to wait 20 years so that their kids can be citizens? They're willing to risk their lives crossing the border in very inhospitable places, but they're not willing to wait?

 

[seckcimike]

..and? They're not willing to wait 20 years so that their kids can be citizens? They're willing to risk their lives crossing the border in very inhospitable places, but they're not willing to wait?

Where are you going wit this? if they wait 20 years they will not be eligible max age is 35 years old, stop arguing , you dont make sense. idc what happens in 20 years, i care about what happens now.

 

[Famine]

You may not, but they do...

Imagine you live in a very poor country, near to one of the (if not THE) richest countries in the world.

One day, that country decides to offer all children of illegal immigrants currently in the country full citizenship (with certain provisos) on a complete one-off. This means their children - and all subsequent generations - can be part of one of the richest countries in the world, rather than living in a poor one. The people still left in the poor country think "Wait... this happened once. Why wouldn't it happen again?"


Result - you encourage illegal immigration as more people think going across illegally will result in a secure future for their children.

 

[seckcimike]

Guys dont think illegal aliens are ignorant, most of these people are graduates, they do not come to united states cause they can be legal, they come here to work, that is their main priority, if an amnesty is passed then so be it, thats good for them, but i highly doubt their main concern is becoming legal. As for dream act this is a ounce in a life time opportunity for the children.

Picture your self as one of these children growing up, how hard it is to live life to the fullest when opportunities are unreachable cause of your status. As for the parents they came here knowing that it is illegal but as for their children had no will power to choose so.

 

[Famine]

Guys dont think illegal aliens are ignorant, most of these people are graduates, they do not come to united states cause they can be legal, they come here to work, that is their main priority

And why do they do that? Because the wage is better in the US for a skivvy than it is in their native country for a lawyer.

if an amnesty is passed then so be it, thats good for them, but i highly doubt their main concern is becoming legal

Except the bit where they get all the rights and priviledges that come with being a US citizen.

As for dream act this is a ounce in a life time opportunity for the children.

Or, as the rest of us would refer to it, "legal precedent".

Picture your self as one of these children growing up, how hard it is to live life to the fullest when opportunities are unreachable cause of your status.

Compared to a life where opportunities are unreachable because you live in one of the world's poorer countries, with a shorter lifespan, lower literacy level and lower family income...


An amnesty is a carrot, encouraging more illegal immigration. It gives validity to the act of immigration, and makes a nonsense of the part where it's illegal.

 

[seckcimike]

Lol listen to your self you are so off topic, we are talking about the pros and cons of amnesty for the young ones and your talking about people in poor countries. STAY IN TOPIC.


Lets have a conversation here not an argument.


You guys do not clearly understand the situation, im aiming for the children whom was brought here by their parents. This has nothing to do what so ever with their parents.

 

[Danoff]

Lol listen to your self you are so off topic, we are talking about the pros and cons of amnesty for the young ones and your talking about people in poor countries. STAY IN TOPIC.

Poor Country = Mexico
Rich Country = US

It's on topic.

You guys do not clearly understand the situation, im aiming for the children whom was brought here by their parents. This has nothing to do what so ever with their parents.

An amnesty is a carrot, encouraging more illegal immigration. It gives validity to the act of immigration, and makes a nonsense of the part where it's illegal.

 

[seckcimike]

Obviously where not rich why cause we are broke so yea as i can recall we owe china 2 1/2 trillion dollars before the war even started.

 

[Danoff]

Obviously where not rich why cause we are broke so yea

Wow! Waiter, check please!

 

[Famine]

Lol listen to your self you are so off topic, we are talking about the pros and cons of amnesty for the young ones and your talking about people in poor countries. STAY IN TOPIC.

One of the cons is that it will encourage more people to illegally migrate to the US in order to afford their children the same opportunity.

Where do you think the illegal migrants come from if not your poorer neighbours?

You guys do not clearly understand the situation

Why? Because we don't agree with your assessment?

That attitude won't get you very far.

 

[TB]

You guys do not clearly understand the situation, im aiming for the children whom was brought here by their parents. This has nothing to do what so ever with their parents.

So then, pray tell, how do the children get here without the parents?

Go through the proper channels to become a citizen and I'll be the first to welcome you. Cross the border illegally just so your unborn child can stay here and I'm looking for my pitchfork and torch.

 

[seckcimike]

Guys im not trying to argue, my main concern is that these children are suffering because of their parents without having to think these through, before bringing them here.