New Immigration Laws The US Should Adopt

[Danoff]

Guys im not trying to argue, my main concern is that these children are suffering because of their parents without having to think these through, before bringing them here.

By suffering you mean going back to the country they're from?

 

[YSSMAN]

You guys do not clearly understand the situation, im aiming for the children whom was brought here by their parents. This has nothing to do what so ever with their parents.

The long and short of the discussion is a flat out NO.

Why should I have to give these kids amnesty because of their parents poor decision? For that matter, their breaking of federal law for years on end? There is absolutely no bonus for me, as an American citizen, to give these illegal immigrants amnesty in any form whatsoever. They came here illegally, they broke the laws (and continue to do so by being here), and if they want to stay, they need to go to the back of the line, behind everyone that has applied for citizenship 20-30 years previous to them.

Too. Damn. Bad.

The way you're phrasing your arguement suggests that we are punishing innocent children for things that they're parents have done. Certainly, that is true to a small extent. However, you're also ignoring the fact that as taxpayers, we spend billions per year providing these families with healthcare, food stamps, not to mention their dodged taxes that do not re-contribute to the pot. These same billions could have been spent on infrastructure, education, R&D, or hell... properly equipping our troops in a war zone.

Certainly, there are exceptions to the rule. There are families who have come here illegally, and yet, turn around to declare themselves and pay taxes on their income. If anything, they should be given moderately preferential treatment by comparison to others... But they still broke the law, and consequently, they still have to go to the back of the line.

Immigration, on the whole, is a massively complex question that has no real clear answer.

...And to be honest, if the Federal Government of Mexico could clean up its act a bit, our little immigration problem would be a lot smaller than what it is today. They are still dealing with massive inconsistencies in the distribution of wealth, development and most of all corruption. Historically, the US has ignored the "Mexican problem" to the best of their ability, but for how much longer that can occur, I do not know.

 

[seckcimike]

Am also an U.S. citizen, that was a nice statement btw.

No we are not punishing these children, its their parents that did this to them, that is why i pity them, as for:


you're also ignoring the fact that as taxpayers, we spend billions per year providing these families with healthcare, food stamps, not to mention their dodged taxes that do not re-contribute to the pot. These same billions could have been spent on infrastructure, education, R&D, or hell... properly equipping our troops in a war zone.

we do not provide these people what so ever with food stamps cause you need to be a citizen to obtain that, also for health care i have to agree with you on that. As you were saying these people are dodging taxes right that can properly be equipping our troops in a war zone, then make them pay taxes <--------so there are some benefits to this. As for Mexico is a big big big issue and i think 80% of illegals comes from south america. There is no right or wrong to this answer, im just having a small talk, every one is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Come on fellas&#8230;.Take the new guy on one at a time. Was FK not doing well enough in the debate to handle it on his own? Five against one doesn&#8217;t make it a debate, it makes it a lynching.

 

[seckcimike]

Come on fellas….Take the new guy on one at a time. Was FK not doing well enough in the debate to handle it on his own? Five against one doesn’t make it a debate, it makes it a lynching.

nah its all good, were all friends here, just having small talk.

 

[FoolKiller]

Guys dont think illegal aliens are ignorant, most of these people are graduates,

Ahem. I direct you to the Center for Immigration Studies.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

The long and short of the discussion is a flat out NO.

I knew we agreed on something in politics.

we do not provide these people what so ever with food stamps cause you need to be a citizen to obtain that,

Again, I direct you to the CIS:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

then make them pay taxes <--------so there are some benefits to this.

One more time.

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

There is no right or wrong to this answer, im just having a small talk, every one is entitled to their own opinion.

We are having a discussion. Just remember that on the Internet when someone disagrees it does not mean they are angry or fighting with you. The same words that can be said in a friendly debate face to face can appear angry when typed out.

 

[seckcimike]

Well yes of course it will also affect us american citizens, you are absolutely right. There's always consequences for everything, thats why as for most U.S citizen will disagree with this law. I only see this dream act as a solution to gain some money due to a critical economy but for a long term issue, it will not work.

 

[UnoMOTO]

nah its all good, were all friends here, just having small talk.

You don't know yet the size of the poo you just stepped in. The smell of fresh meat makes em crazy!

 

[seckcimike]

You don't know yet the size of the poo you just stepped in. The smell of fresh meat makes em crazy!

Nah im use to this, trust me i was mod in nittolegends, ive already been cuss at, threaten to be stab, killed lol nothing offends me anymore lol, its all just small talk (conversation)

 

[TB]

Five against one doesn’t make it a debate, it makes it a lynching.

Well, I do already have

my pitchfork and torch.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Nah im use to this, trust me i was mod in nittolegends, ive already been cuss at, threaten to be stab, killed lol nothing offends me anymore lol, its all just small talk (conversation)

Well...if your asking for it then...

Well, I do already have

psssh....you ain't forking nuttin in all that frozen tundra and good luck trying to keep your torch lit in that wind.

Just so I don’t get too far off topic TB, why don’t we have an on slot of Canadians migrating south to get out of the cold?

 

[Danoff]

Just so I don&#8217;t get too far off topic TB, why don&#8217;t we have an on slot of Canadians migrating south to get out of the cold?

Pick one. Canada? Or Mexico?

Canada>>>Mexico

 

[UnoMOTO]

hummm....a fine beach with a beer in hand and toes in the sand vs. plugging your car in just to make sure it will start in the morning.

 

[FoolKiller]

Pick one. Canada? Or Mexico?

Canada>>>Mexico

Tough call. Canada seems to like their social systems, particularly healthcare.

hummm....a fine beach with a beer in hand and toes in the sand vs. plugging your car in just to make sure it will start in the morning.

Seeing as you are also in a fly-over state I expect you to know that a country cannot be judged by its coasts. Or is Denver just like LA, with snow?


That said, I will take a trip to Cancun over Montreal any day.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Seeing as you are also in a fly-over state I expect you to know that a country cannot be judged by its coasts. Or is Denver just like LA, with snow?

Bah...my state went blue this time around so things are a changing.

A large portion of this city wants it to grow up and leave the "cow town" image behind.

 

[FoolKiller]

A large portion of this city wants it to grow up and leave the "cow town" image behind.

Don't they all? We have some museum tower monstrosity coming into Louisville, as well as a new arena. Is that arena going to bring in a new pro sports team? Nope, just the University of Louisville.

 

[UnoMOTO]

If I may point out an observation that seems to be relevant to this topic. My new place is a little further out of town. Sadly a judge of immigrant population might be the clientele of your local Wal-Mart. My new Wal-Mart is in a typical farming community that would have in the past been loaded with migrant workers. I see a noticeable absence of said workers. Either this is due to the economy or Colorado’s break down in illegal immigration. Anybody else see this happening in your community?

 

[Philly]

I'd be willing to bet that the reason you're not seeing too many illegal immigrants is that some of them have left. I'm no expert on immigration patterns, but it would make sense that the illegals leave the snowy spots in winter because there is no agricultural job market and no money to be had there, so they would be better off looking somewhere else.

I haven't seen much of a decrease. Part of that could be that I go to a 95% white college (or something like that), but even the Meijer here in Holland, which is a historically conservative Dutch community has a significant minority population.

However, I'm used to always hearing of stories from White Center (a community just north of my home in Seattle) of people getting deported and things. This is also a community where English has almost become a foreign language.

 

[Prosthetic]

I don't have a problem with foreigners but when they start hardly speak a word of English and their the ones taking your orders at a restaurant it gets a bit tedious. I also don't like the sheer number of them coming over. I read somewhere that our population increases by 1.1 million a year from illegal immigrants babies. And since they are born in the US we pay for their health care and stuff. I don't like that, I want my tax dollars going to real Americans that are having trouble in life.

 

[YSSMAN]

I haven't seen much of a decrease. Part of that could be that I go to a 95% white college (or something like that), but even the Meijer here in Holland, which is a historically conservative Dutch community has a significant minority population.

Stick around in the summer sometime when all of the migrant workers come to pick strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries. Holland is the epicenter of immigration around here.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Guys im not trying to argue, my main concern is that these children are suffering because of their parents without having to think these through, before bringing them here.

It's the fault of the parents the children are suffering. Why should we spend our money to cover their incompetence?

We shouldn't. Arguement over.

 

[TB]

psssh....you ain't forking nuttin in all that frozen tundra and good luck trying to keep your torch lit in that wind.

Quite right, sir. Quite right.

Just so I don’t get too far off topic TB, why don’t we have an on slot of Canadians migrating south to get out of the cold?

Needing a passport to cross the border has apparently befuddled many a Canadian.

It's the fault of the parents the children are suffering. Why should we spend our money to cover their incompetence?

We shouldn't. Arguement over.

*raises glass*

 

[Danoff]

I don't have a problem with foreigners but when they start hardly speak a word of English and their the ones taking your orders at a restaurant it gets a bit tedious. I also don't like the sheer number of them coming over. I read somewhere that our population increases by 1.1 million a year from illegal immigrants babies. And since they are born in the US we pay for their health care and stuff. I don't like that, I want my tax dollars going to real Americans that are having trouble in life.

I want my tax dollars going to legitimate government operations rather than Americans who are having trouble in life.

It's the fault of the parents the children are suffering.

Agreed. Except that I would categorize getting (justly) deported as "suffering".

 

[seckcimike]

Your heartless dude, thats why the world is going to end soon from people like you! Go pray to a God, it seems like you have lost your soul.

 

[Famine]

Your heartless dude, thats why the world is going to end soon from people like you! Go pray to a God, it seems like you have lost your soul.

Now how is that helpful to the discussion?

In fact, what does anyone's personality have to do with the topic?

 

[UnoMOTO]

Your heartless dude, thats why the world is going to end soon from people like you! Go pray to a God, it seems like you have lost your soul.

 

[seckcimike]

Now how is that helpful to the discussion?

In fact, what does anyone's personality have to do with the topic?

None what so ever, so go delete it if you want, dont bother me, i just felt the presence of "freedom of speech" atm.


To stay on topic: How do you guys feel about foreigners coming to america, and joining the military to obtain citizenships?

 

[Famine]

None what so ever, so go delete it if you want, dont bother me, i just felt the presence of "freedom of speech" atm.

If I wanted to delete it I would already have done so.

Keep the hostility out of it and discuss the subject rather than the character of people who don't agree with you.

To stay on topic: How do you guys feel about foreigners coming to america, and joining the military to obtain citizenships?

I can't see an issue with people being rewarded for serving their country, even if it's one they've adopted.

 

[Danoff]

Your heartless dude, thats why the world is going to end soon from people like you! Go pray to a God, it seems like you have lost your soul.

It's heartless to send a family back to Mexico? They're no worse off than they started. You seem to think that children are entitled to live in the US, and that if a child is living in Mexico that child is "suffering". If that's your position, why not just offer to allow anyone under the age of 18 to freely come to the US without papers, inspection, work, or any way to educate themselves?

The truth is that all children under the age of 18 don't have a right to live in the US, and if they happen to live in Mexico, that is not suffering. So sending an illegally immigrated family back to Mexico is not forcing the children to suffer.

When faced with an illegally immigrated family, you have three choices:

1) Let them stay
2) Let the children stay, deport the parents
3) Deport the family

I can't think of any other options worth discussing. Number 2 is the most cruel and encourages illegal immigration. Number 1 makes illegal immigration a permanent unsolvable problem and greatly weakens border security. I'm left with one option and one option only - number 3. Not because I don't have a heart, but because I haven't misunderstood the situation.

Now, if you're talking about my suggestion for the use of tax dollars, I'd remind you that government charity is no charity at all, and government is bad at it. Private charity on the otherhand...

 

[seckcimike]

I read a very interesting thread about pros and cos relating to this topic, i learned a few things that i was not aware of like


4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primarycan the descendants of Columbus. As far as Mexico is concerned, we won the Mexican War and purchased the territories for $15 Million Dollars. It's over. The land has been ours for a long time now. The argument that this land is theirs is flawed at best. Previous homeowners cannot claim ownership of a house they sold years in the past.

Heres the link: http://searchwarp.com/swa61485.htm