North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[TexRex]

That said maybe you should be open to other news networks...
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/north-korea-says-it-will-suspend-nuclear-and-missile-testing/735457453

Other news networks that provide the same information cited, which still doesn't support the "ending their nuclear program" assertion?

I don't lie and I never really post my opinion on these things when I announce them before others here.

I mean...I guess posting misinterpreted/misrepresented/misguided information is "better" than lying, but isn't it more prudent to be sure of the facts than it is to be first?

 

[Imari]

NK has what they needed out of their testing program, a functional weapon and proof that they can credibly use it. But that's unlikely to be the end goal for them, so being the "bigger man" and voluntarily shutting down testing is a good move for them heading into negotiations. It's one less thing that the west can demand from them, and they can always dangle the threat of restarting it if things don't go their way.

Ultimately I'd imagine they want safety and security as a sovereign nation, along with the ability to partake in world trade if they wish. The nukes are currently just something that allows them to continue existing for long enough to attempt to achieve that.

 

[ryzno]

Other news networks that provide the same information cited, which still doesn't support the "ending their nuclear program" assertion?


I mean...I guess posting misinterpreted/misrepresented/misguided information is "better" than lying, but isn't it more prudent to be sure of the facts than it is to be first?

That can be argued about any source.
There was a few changes in the broadcast as it broke on our news.
I said "as usual"...
Like I said, I'm not holding my breath...

 

[Scaff]

Another reason why NK has ended some of the testing has come to light.....

http://thehill.com/policy/national-...orth-korea-nuclear-test-site-largely-unusable

...the main test location has partially collapsed and is not fully usable.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Is this where we can talk about the meeting between Kim Jong-Un and Moon Jae-In?

Pretty historic isn't it. Plus they give a shout out to Trump:

 

[Obelisk]

I just heard the news. This is absolutely stunning - the Korean War coming to an end, the Koreas moving forward together to restore peace...
There is still hope in the world.

Now, they need to work with the U.S. to cease tensions there.

 

[Dennisch]

Nobel Peace prize for Trump.

 

[Joey D]

Not sure why Trump should get any credit, he just acted like an asshat on Twitter. The South Korean government made actual moves to start the peace process.

 

[Dennisch]

Not sure why Trump should get any credit, he just acted like an asshat on Twitter. The South Korean government made actual moves to start the peace process.

South Korea is giving Trump the credit.

 

[Touring Mars]

It brings a tear to the eye to see old adversaries getting back together after all those years and making new plans for the future - but enough about the ABBA reunion, it's good to see some progress in Korea as well.

 

[Joey D]

South Korea is giving Trump the credit.

Right. I'm just confused as to why they are giving him credit. Attempting to start a nuclear war, or really any kind of a war, isn't exactly what I'd call a road to peace.

 

[Dennisch]

Right. I'm just confused as to why they are giving him credit. Attempting to start a nuclear war, or really any kind of a war, isn't exactly what I'd call a road to peace.

I'd say he outbluffed Kim. Kept his foot down and mouth wide open, instead of begging them to stop with the testing.

But then again, this could still all be a scheme by NK to get that sweet foreign aid rolling again.

 

[Joey D]

I'd say he outbluffed Kim. Kept his foot down and mouth wide open, instead of begging them to stop with the testing.

But then again, this could still all be a scheme by NK to get that sweet foreign aid rolling again.

Being firm with them and being a buffoon on social media are two different things. I think Trump could have accomplished the same thing without threatening nuclear war on his personal Twitter account.

And it's not doubt a move for NK to get aid. Or it's all a propaganda move.

 

[Touring Mars]

Right. I'm just confused as to why they are giving him credit. Attempting to start a nuclear war, or really any kind of a war, isn't exactly what I'd call a road to peace.

You only need to look at previous attempts by the international community (and the US in particular) to even bring North Korea to the negotiating table, let alone to openly discuss the prospect of dropping their nuclear ambitions and/or ending hostilities between DPRK and the South. Trump decided to throw away the official 'How to deal with North Korea' playbook (you know, since it has worked so well thus far) and basically stop pussyfooting around.

I reckon Trump deserves a great deal of credit - yet he could still find it all slip away if it turns out that this is all yet another ploy by the Kim regime to buy time, score political points and to get one over on the US - we had all better hope that this is not the case.

 

[Joey D]

You only need to look at previous attempts by the international community (and the US in particular) to even bring North Korea to the negotiating table, let alone to openly discuss the prospect of dropping their nuclear ambitions and/or ending hostilities between DPRK and the South. Trump decided to throw away the official 'How to deal with North Korea' playbook (you know, since it has worked so well thus far) and basically stop pussyfooting around.

I reckon Trump deserves a great deal of credit - yet he could still find it all slip away if it turns out that this is all yet another ploy by the Kim regime to buy time, score political points and to get one over on the US - we had all better hope that this is not the case.

For me, it just seems like South Korea did more by reaching out to North Korea in an attempt to get things resolved. The Olympics also seemed to play a big part too - at least in my opinion. By allowing the countries to compete under one banner instead of two, or flat out barring the North's athletes from coming at all, it seemed to go a long ways.

I'm not sure what back channeling was done though, so maybe Trump did play more of part then I think. From the outside though, all I really seen him do was throw around insults and at like a child on Twitter. I give him credit for not going after North Korea in the typical way, but he could have at least used his speech writer to write something and then gave a public address regarding the situation in North Korea. I mean his actions really did seem like it would lead to a war that would ultimately be costly and probably resulted in one of the North's nuclear weapons being fired at some target, whether that was in the South, Japan, Guam, or any other location where the US has a military presence.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'd say he outbluffed Kim. Kept his foot down and mouth wide open, instead of begging them to stop with the testing.

But then again, this could still all be a scheme by NK to get that sweet foreign aid rolling again.

If indeed they've completed their nuclear testing programme (and the facility has collapsed anyway) then NK has little to lose - it's possible that this was the plan all along. If you can curry favour with another superpower or two along the way than that all grists the mill.

Remember that they're only stopping testing, not giving up their nukes.

 

[Dennisch]

 

[TexRex]

Am I the only one who pictured Stewie following him playing a tuba?

 

[Dennisch]

Am I the only one who pictured Stewie following him playing a tuba?

He does have that fat man stroll.

 

[TexRex]

 

[TheCracker]

You only need to look at previous attempts by the international community (and the US in particular) to even bring North Korea to the negotiating table, let alone to openly discuss the prospect of dropping their nuclear ambitions and/or ending hostilities between DPRK and the South. Trump decided to throw away the official 'How to deal with North Korea' playbook (you know, since it has worked so well thus far) and basically stop pussyfooting around.

I reckon Trump deserves a great deal of credit - yet he could still find it all slip away if it turns out that this is all yet another ploy by the Kim regime to buy time, score political points and to get one over on the US - we had all better hope that this is not the case.

I personally think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Yes Trump has approached NK in a different manor, but it coincides with NK proving on the international stage that they are now nuclear capable and willing to 'defend' themselves in the strongest possible way. They now have something to bring to the table that they didn't have before.

 

[Famine]

Imagine if Trump wins the Nobel Peace Prize for this...

 

[Northstar]

Imagine if Trump wins the Nobel Peace Prize for this...

That would be YUGE!!!

And he would certainly be more deserving than Obama even if he barely had anything to do with it.

 

[Joey D]

I can just see the Tweet now.

"This PRIZE is beautiful, the best prize, it's stunning, the best, believe me. To bad the FAKE NEWS won't give ME the credit for it. Rocket man has NOTHING on me. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN."

 

[TexRex]

I can just see the Tweet now.

"This PRIZE is beautiful, the best prize, it's stunning, the best, believe me. To bad the FAKE NEWS won't give ME the credit for it. Rocket man has NOTHING on me. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN."

You forgot to mention all the letters people are sending him.

 

[Imari]

You only need to look at previous attempts by the international community (and the US in particular) to even bring North Korea to the negotiating table, let alone to openly discuss the prospect of dropping their nuclear ambitions and/or ending hostilities between DPRK and the South.

Actually, the Clinton administration was very successful at negotiating with NK and had an agreement in place.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-why-did-bill-clintons-north-korea-deal-fail/

The main reason that it failed was that the Bush administration reneged on the deal. Although it's a little more complicated than that, the Clinton administration knew that NK was cheating on the deal, but planned to use that information to apply more pressure to NK to conform to their diplomatic goals. Bush, being the somewhat aggressive leader that he was, discarded all nuance to the deal and just chucked his toys out of the pram.

Realistically, we could have been where we are now ten years ago had different choices been made. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that so I'm not really too critical, but I don't think it's fair to imply that this is the first real time that NK has even been brought to the negotiating table.

That is, to use a Trump-ism, fake news. It's propaganda that certain groups would like you to believe, but it neglects the long history of negotiation and diplomacy with NK by multiple administrations. The real story is far more complex.

There's a good bit about this in the WaPo podcast The Daily where they interview one of the negotiators from the Clinton era. That's how I learned this particular piece of history.

 

[Dotini]

Transcendental genius spider at the center of the global web - or Forrest Gump?
In the postmodern world, perhaps both!

 

[Johnnypenso]

As I mentioned before I'm firmly in the Nobel Peace Prize for Trump camp. If Obama can get one for essentially making a kumbaya speech then surely if he pulls this off it deserves at least one, or maybe more, NPP. Now if he can get the Palestinians to the table with a few late Saturday tweets, and get an agreement hammered out, they really should rename it the Trump Peace Prize. The Saudi Crown Prince is already rattling his sword of disdain at the Palestinians, perhaps a few other of the more open minded regimes in the region will follow suit.

Scratch that, Donald would probably just create his own award hand out his own Trump Peace Prize every year after a Twitter barage denouncing the NPP as corrupt, fake news and just wrong.

 

[Imari]

As I mentioned before I'm firmly in the Nobel Peace Prize for Trump camp. If Obama can get one for essentially making a kumbaya speech then surely if he pulls this off it deserves at least one, or maybe more, NPP.

I'd argue that neither of them deserve it, but that's just me. If anyone deserves a peace prize for North Korean relations it's surely Moon Jae-In. As far as I can tell America's contribution has been waving it's military willy around, whereas South Korea has actually been engaging in diplomacy and has really achieved a lot.

I'm not sure that giving someone a Nobel Peace Prize when their main contribution was threatening nuclear war sends the right message.

 

[Famine]

I'm not sure that giving someone a Nobel Peace Prize when their main contribution was threatening nuclear war sends the right message.

Obama's main contribution was saying he'd close Camp X-Ray/Delta during an election and, although he didn't have time to do it before the award selection process ended, didn't actually do it at all... while escalating covert, extrajudicial drone strikes in noncombatant nations.

One could argue that Trump's tack followed one of the oldest political tenets of all regarding the pursuit of peace: si vis pacem, para bellum (if you seek peace, prepare for war).

Still, when it comes to the peace prize sending the wrong message by being awarded to unsuitable individuals, the Rohingya Muslims might have an opinion (if there are any of them left).