North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

[Joey D]

You know who else fought a war on two fronts? The United States... Oh wait...

With a ton of allied help and two nuclear weapons.

A war with Iran will presumably garner little allied support since Europe isn't exactly in favor of a conflict and really the only ally we might have is Isreal in that pursuit, but as it is right now they are dealing with their own issues.

With North Korea, it's hard to tell where other countries would stand, but South Korea would probably be out and I'm guessing Japan's defence force wouldn't want to risk it since North Korea's missiles can very easily hit them. Both China and Russia would more than likely abstain or psudeo-support North Korea in the event of military action.

Finally, if the US brought nuclear weapons into the equation, they would no doubt be fought with a ton of international pressure. Launching a nuclear weapon would hurt the US in a massive way.

 

[Touring Mars]

The "summit" between Trump and Kim Jong-un may not happen, as the dictator is threatening to pull out. Just when you thought the mule might be useful, it kicks you in the head. Peace and prosperity for the North would now be canceled, and fire and fury back on the program.

In fairness to the latter, I would be tempted to walk away from the meeting too given what has been said recently...

Trump must play this carefully (what are the chances!?) otherwise a potential landmark achievement might disappear faster than the chance of it arrived. It doesn't help that the DPRK have made some real and important concessions (agreeing to meet Trump, handing over US prisoners, and stating a commitment toward the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula) but have been met with little/nothing in return... surely even Trump can understand that it is going to require some concessions from the US in return to keep the forward momentum going?

South Korea and the US have gone ahead with planned military drills - arguably the single most aggravating thing that they could possibly have done at this particular moment in time, as well as ratcheting up the pre-talk demands on the DPRK, specifically that it agrees to send its nuclear weapons overseas for decommissioning. And it doesn't exactly help when US national security adviser John Bolton says that the DPRK ought to follow the 'Libya model' - since that ended so well for Colonel Gaddafi (and Libya) . In all honesty, this latter statement strikes me as either spectacularly ignorant or, perhaps more likely, derived from a misplaced sense that they (the US) already hold the upper hand and can basically dictate terms as they see fit - either way, this approach is extremely unlikely to work. The US must do much more to reassure the DPRK that their concessions will at least be reciprocated if there is going to be any chance of a lasting settlement.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Welp, there goes the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

[Touring Mars]

Welp, there goes the Nobel Peace Prize.

Easy come, easy go...

 

[Lizard]

I always knew Kim had something up his sleeve and this I believe is it. He is just going to turn around and say 'I offered you peace but you keep up the aggressive attitude so clearly you don't want it'.

 

[Imari]

I always knew Kim had something up his sleeve and this I believe is it. He is just going to turn around and say 'I offered you peace but you keep up the aggressive attitude so clearly you don't want it'.

That doesn't seem so much "up his sleeve" as "logical and rational". It feels like they'd be negotiating Trump sits there sharpening his knife. Sure is hard to believe that the US is negotiating in good faith while they're also warming up to attack.

 

[Scaff]

I always knew Kim had something up his sleeve and this I believe is it. He is just going to turn around and say 'I offered you peace but you keep up the aggressive attitude so clearly you don't want it'.

Not really something up his sleeve given that that NK have used the annual joint SK/US military exercises as a reason to kick off pretty much for ever.

If the US didn't see it coming then that's even more concerning, given that NK taking issue with joint military exercises is something you can set a watch by.

 

[Lizard]

That doesn't seem so much "up his sleeve" as "logical and rational". It feels like they'd be negotiating Trump sits there sharpening his knife. Sure is hard to believe that the US is negotiating in good faith while they're also warming up to attack.

Not really something up his sleeve given that that NK have used the annual joint SK/US military exercises as a reason to kick off pretty much for ever.

If the US didn't see it coming then that's even more concerning, given that NK taking issue with joint military exercises is something you can set a watch by.

I meant that his peace offer wasn't genuine. He knew this would happen, he is trying to legitimise his position.

 

[UKMikey]

I meant that his peace offer wasn't genuine. He knew this would happen, he is trying to legitimise his position.

Are you saying that SoKor/US going ahead with their military exercise was all part of his evil plan?

If they were going to go ahead I don't understand why this wasn't discussed at the talks.

 

[Touring Mars]

I always knew Kim had something up his sleeve

His arms?

 

[Lizard]

His arms?

I was thinking his legs but seems like it could be his arms.

 

[Imari]

I meant that his peace offer wasn't genuine. He knew this would happen, he is trying to legitimise his position.

He knew that the US would be unnecessarily aggressive even leading up to peace talks, so he made all the right moves knowing that the US would give him a viable excuse to step back? And that would somehow be a ploy to get people on his side?

Ploy or not, actions speak louder than words. NK has done several non-trivial things to indicate that they're open to change and negotiation. The US has refused to delay military drills specifically designed to allow his military to combat North Korea.

Are we somehow supposed to think that KJU is the bad guy here? I'll take someone who acts like he wants peace over someone who acts like he wants war every day of the week, and I'll take them home to meet my sister on Sundays.

 

[Touring Mars]

The US-South Korean military exercises are planned well in advance and Kim Jong-Un would have known that they would be taking place now - continuation of these military exercises was even part of the agreement reached last month, so it does seem to be something of a U-turn on the face of it... but perhaps in the wake of other actions and statements, the DPRK may have been expecting the drills to be postponed or scaled down as a gesture of goodwill, although that seems unlikely.

Note that the statements coming out of DPRK on this are actually coming from someone other than Kim Jong-Un, suggesting that there could be some discord between what Kim is agreeing to and what the military/rest of the DPRK establishment are prepared to agree to.

 

[Scaff]

I meant that his peace offer wasn't genuine. He knew this would happen, he is trying to legitimise his position.

That we don't know, what we do know is that as far as compromise goes its been pretty one-sided so far.

However my faith and trust in both sides is pretty much zero.

 

[Blitz24]

That we don't know, what we do know is that as far as compromise goes its been pretty one-sided so far.

However my faith and trust in both sides is pretty much zero.

So it is truly a zero sum game then.

All kidding aside, it's not as if the drills are being made WHEN there is an attack, but rather, IF there is one. While it might show good will to delay or tone down the drills, it shouldn't cause this kind of NK reaction unless there's some discord in NK.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The US-South Korean military exercises are planned well in advance and Kim Jong-Un would have known that they would be taking place now - continuation of these military exercises was even part of the agreement reached last month, so it does seem to be something of a U-turn on the face of it... but perhaps in the wake of other actions and statements, the DPRK may have been expecting the drills to be postponed or scaled down as a gesture of goodwill, although that seems unlikely.

Note that the statements coming out of DPRK on this are actually coming from someone other than Kim Jong-Un, suggesting that there could be some discord between what Kim is agreeing to and what the military/rest of the DPRK establishment are prepared to agree to.

The fact that it doesn't come from Kim J. tells me he's leaving the door open to changing his mind or that it's a negotiating tactic. It's easy to send out a minion to say outrageous and unexpected things and then just discredit them when you get what you want or change your mind later. So far it doesn't seem like the U.S. is reacting as if the recent negative statements have ruined the peace process.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The NK/USA talks are officially off.

 

[Scaff]

The letter....

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/24/trump-calls-off-historic-meeting-with-kim-jong-un-607126


...had to double check it wasn't The Onion!

Not however a massive surprise given that the two sides clearly had very different end goals, the US wanting disarmament and NK recognition as a nuclear state.

 

[Joey D]

So much for that peace prize.

And the line about "ours are so massive and powerful" made me giggle because it's clearly a penis joke.

 

[SestoScudo]

Peace Prize goes up in smoke LOL

 

[Dotini]

So much for that peace prize.

And the line about "ours are so massive and powerful" made me giggle because it's clearly a penis joke.

I'm waiting for The Don to whip out his B-52 penis and flog poor Kim about the head and shoulders with it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

When I got to the "massive and powerful" line I began to wonder if it was all some Monty Python spoof.

 

[TexRex]

When I got to the "massive and powerful" line I began to wonder if it was all some Monty Python spoof.

"Please let Trump be Terry Jones in a fat suit. Please let Trump be Terry Jones in a fat suit. Please let Trump be Terry Jones in a fat suit. Please, please, PLEASE!!!"

 

[Scaff]

I'm waiting for The Don to whip out his B-52 penis and flog poor Kim about the head and shoulders with it.

Right now I'm glad I have aphantasia.

 

[Robin]

They shouldn't have compared this situation to the Libyan one.

 

[Joey D]

I'm waiting for The Don to whip out his B-52 penis and flog poor Kim about the head and shoulders with it.

The B-52 a big plane, as for Trump's member....ehh I think calling it a B-52 might be a tad exaggerated.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The B-52 a big plane, as for Trump's member....ehh I think calling it a B-52 might be a tad exaggerated.

One of them's old, creaky and operates using tactics that some call a crime. The other's a B-52. B'dum tshh.

 

[SestoScudo]

Time to listen to some Rocketman.

 

[Scaff]

Strikes me as the SK president played them both.

His approval rating went through the roof, he looks like the good guy for meeting with Kim and gets none of the flak for it falling apart.

Well played that man.

 

[TexRex]

I'm not sure why people are so surprised Trump would pull out--isn't it a common courtesy when paying for sex?

*rimshot*

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