(NOT)Sandbagging it's something else. SOLVED!!
- Thread starter sdi_03
- 183 comments
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- 1,435
- Kansas City/MO/US
- BallPtPenTheif
- BallPtPenTheif
So, just to recap. All tests and metrics are showing that this isn't a real issue but the OP is still stubbornly holding onto his unsupported belief? Am I getting something wrong here?
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
I’d go so far as to question that other video he posted at Nurb gp.
Totally diff ways of driving the first sector diff lines etc. and just because someone is a GT Sport b doesn’t mean they may not be quite experienced in open wheel sims or irl. Maybe they don’t prefer racing the gt type cars or what have you...
But yeah you nailed it.
I ran quite a bit at Suzuka last week and learned some interesting things about tires, especially after paying a bit more attention to posts here.
Jmo
- 712
- Finland
No! I dont think that its the game. Something else. Or me
Tested the throttle flicker, its same on pad. But what is different, the GRIP lots of it.Drove 10 laps with pad on race a qualy, the difference is huge!! My best time with wheel, is 33.065, so still faster, but I haven used pad like years.
Is my wheel broken? Or is the differece in grip this big???
Should I start new thread for trouble shooting? Or keep using this one? Seems that the title confuses, and the original issue is resolved...
- 3,559
- Theresa, Wisconsin
No! I dont think that its the game. Something else. Or me
Drove 10 laps with pad on race a qualy, the difference is huge!! My best time with wheel, is 33.065, so still faster, but I haven used pad like years.
Is my wheel broken? Or is the differece in grip this big???
Should I start new thread for trouble shooting? Or keep using this one? Seems that the title confuses, and the original issue is resolved...
If you questioning if there seems to be a grip difference between a wheel and the DS4 the answer is absolutely. For lack of a better word PD builds "magic" into the DS4 so DS4 users can be competitive with wheel users. Even though I suck racing with the DS4 and very rarely use it there are some car/track combos where I can pick up my DS4 and beat my best wheel time in as little as 5-10 laps just because of the added stability or grip that the DS4 adds.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
Good to hear from the person who has experience with both.
I can’t use DS4. I started with t80.
The fact that the game supports racing between diff control types is awesome.
More the merrier!
The only other person I know personally irl who can drive both...
We were in lobby talking and the first sector at Gardens...
He was smoking me there on controller and commented after a few offs that the car could not be floored/reacted differently.
He felt a huge difference.
Previously he kept commenting why do you slow so much there, but trying the first time on wheel he understood.
I LOVE that really skilled drivers of all methods can play this game.
IMO it’s a fantastic racing experience.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
- 3,559
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Yes, I think there is an incredible difference in car behavior between a wheel and DS4. I dont know what a Titan is but I have been wanting to sacrafice one of my DS4's to use the electrical components on a wheel and pedal assembly, ie: I want to control a DS4 with a wheel and pedals, there may be some speed to be had I'm thinking.
- 3,559
- Theresa, Wisconsin
- 817
- United States
you 'Perceive' less grip..... all of this is hard to verify without data loggers and video overlay. even for yourself... are you sure the situation was the same in every race? you arent running solo to set your "good grip time" then right behind someones bumper on the "no grip time"? does time of day affect track grip? not saying there isnt any bug... but, saying your car is "pushing durring the race' and thats why you didnt win sounds like every race car driver thats ever lost a race.
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,789
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
Not really. You have a much higher skill ceiling on a wheel.
Below's a test I did a little while ago comparing a DS4's best lap to a wheel's best lap. Both have flaws in different places but the pace is pretty much identical and I didn't see any notable differences in feel or performance.
Pigems
Premium
- 9,219
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
Interesting concept, a DriveHub converter does almost that, it makes the PS4 think your DS4 is a Racing wheel or rather a wheel that is compatible with PS4. I wonder if the answer lies in an adapter/converter of some sort vs disassembling one and hard wiring something together.
- 712
- Finland
I never said, that I should have win some race. Just that I noticed my physics in game was different compared to some other players.
All the tests that I have done, are in daily race qualification mode. So all parameters should be equal.
I have replay from my :33.06x lap with wheel. It obvious, that the grip is different in these runs. I need to "toss" the car to slide in T1 to get the car turned, late apex t2 to keep left so that can turn t3 without reverse pit entry. also need to lift slightly on T3, or again go backward to pit entry.
With pad, No need to lift in T3, just some powerslide. With wheel, there would be no chance in h*** to catch that slide.
You can also see, that the slide lost no time at all. pad tim 0:33.5xx
(laps with pad somewhere around 10, last time used pad several years ago, never with GT-Sport before)
Will post that wheel lap replay, when got back to home.
Just watched this kie25 new video, at 4:40 he starts to talk about he's wheel t-gt. And states that putting the wheel to "other" mode reduces understeer. Now he does not say, that how he connects the wheel to the ps4, but seems odd, that physics change just in flick of a switch??
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- 712
- Finland
I have seen your vid from best lap, I cant survive the line you took at T3 or go thru T3 with full throttle. Will post my lap later today.
Only in that pad lap, I could go t3 with full throttle. Allso on wheel lap T1 cant keep the car from sliding a little after apex.
Like I mentioned, difference in pad vs wheel is huge in my game. With pad, its like sunday driving. With wheel, dancing on the knife edge = super loose.
Pigems
Premium
- 9,219
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
Oh you definitely can, don’t steer so much, if you’re sliding then you're probably turning the wheel too much and unsettling the car. Be very smooth and small with your steering inputs, if you turn the wheel to much or to quickly the car slides. Just inch the wheel around the last two corners and you will get it. Coming out of T2 low helps a lot, it gives you more room to get around T3. Also, fight the urge to correct the car around T3, if you correct it you lose the balance, let it ride the outside(drivers side) tires and don’t shift the weight back to the right until just before the banking starts on the final turn, then inch the wheel back to the left super easily as the car settles into the bank. You can definitely make it around full throttle man.
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- 736
- United States
I just read through this entire thread (whew!) And I think I can contribute. First, I agree that the physics are different between controller and wheel. Always have been IMHO. You can watch a vid of a (bad)DS4 driver and see the car dart left and right, or the instant turn in. There is no way to get a wheel to stick like that and get those violent direction changes.
As to @Pigems lap, I can't go through T3 at full throttle like that either(yet), but have done it and lost it in T4, so I know it's just a matter of my inputs. Not physics.
I've noticed definite physics changes because of time of day, dirty tires, and cold and overheated tires. I think that's most of what the OP is feeling. It really is amazing, the detail PD has put into the game. For instance, at Magiore(sp?) on T3, your approximate line is the fast line, BUT I discovered I could go in, tight to the inside, brake WAY later, and make the apex. It's a bit slower, and may cause havoc with fast drivers, but works great with slower drivers. All i can figure is that the darker patch on the inside is rubber that's been layed down, and has increased grip. I've noticed this elswhere. If you stay on the dark(rubber) patches you have much more grip, and can gain time even if it's not the "ideal" line.
Another thing that I discovered, and still struggle with on my G29, is braking. I have very little brake feel, and have thought that my brakes didn't work as well as others because they could brake later. I would end up pushing the brakes harder and harder, to no good effect. What I discovered was that the car slowed faster with less brake pressure, but with no feel, modulation is tough. I still struggle with it. Here's a relatable scenario...I can't match my best time, so I go in deep, brake hard (slows less) and miss the apex by 5 feet. Being wide slows my laptime, delays throttle input, and puts me on slightly dirty pavement, effecting tires and the next corner. Feels slippery...all because I hit the brakes too hard.
If there were a way for me to be able to feel the brakes better, that would do wonders for my laptimes.
- 3,559
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Where I notice differences between a wheel and a DS4 are what are usually the trickier sections of the tracks, especially with a tail happy car. I can get thru these sections often at much higher rate of speed with the DS4 than with my wheel. The car just seems to have much more grip. I have about 3 months driving time on GTS with the DS4 vs 12 months on my wheel. I can promise you that percentage wise the time I have on the wheel vs DS4 is probably 90% wheel and 10% DS4. I will agree that my skill level can improve on the wheel but I really suck racing with the DS4. I suppose that is the whole point of my comparison, someone can pick up a DS4 and be somewhat fast immediately yet on a wheel it takes by my experience somewhere around 10 times as many hours to get as fast with a wheel even though you can control the car so much easier. For a little back story the only video games I play are racing games and GTS is the first video game I have played in probably well over 5 years which makes me think that maybe PD made driving a little too easy with a DS4 because I would imagine someone who plays video games daily for years has much better dexterity using the DS4. It would also make me think I should be much faster using a wheel than a DS4 which is simply not the case.
- 712
- Finland
So, just tested new T300RS wheel. What a difference!!!! Bought the base model with poor pedals (these are crap) BUT the wheel, now I understand that some of you have had hard time to believe me 
G29 lap just tip toeing thru t3, reversing to pit is not fun...
T300RS wheel part 1. You can see huge slide in the start. with g29 no chance to catch that
T300RS part 2
Got 50 days to return the T300RS love the wheel, but pedals are crap. What do you think, is my G29 wheel faulty?? Or is the game support for it that much worse???
Oh, no flicker in the trottle bar on hud with T300.
UPDATE!
Even with bad pedals, with trailbraking allmost impossible to adjust 0:32.885
SO this is solved, it was my wheel. Sorry for bad feelings that this thread caused. Thank you for those of you that put up with my rant
G29 lap just tip toeing thru t3, reversing to pit is not fun...
T300RS wheel part 1. You can see huge slide in the start. with g29 no chance to catch that
T300RS part 2
Got 50 days to return the T300RS love the wheel, but pedals are crap. What do you think, is my G29 wheel faulty?? Or is the game support for it that much worse???
Oh, no flicker in the trottle bar on hud with T300.
UPDATE!
Even with bad pedals, with trailbraking allmost impossible to adjust 0:32.885
SO this is solved, it was my wheel. Sorry for bad feelings that this thread caused. Thank you for those of you that put up with my rant
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- 817
- United States
I’m still gonna have to see data loggers to believe it though. I need to see if the throttle, brake application was the same, if the turn in was at the same point, and the same amount of lock is applied and a couple of other things. I can run very consistent lap times and not run the exact line from lap to lap. That’s what I’m trying to get at. Unless you can look at your exact input in graph form and overlay them lap to lap. I’m going with perception and driving style over anything the game does. If you are half a foot before or after the true turn in point the car will handle differently for those different situations. And watching those videos doesn't show me enough to say ‘Oh the game is changing physics’. There just isn’t enough recorded data to for me to wanna agree. I mean it could be something like weird feedback from the power cable in the wires of your steering wheel.... it’s just hard to say with out the data logging all your inputs for the lap.
- 45
- United States
I've been driving with a controller since the PS1 days, and this month switched to a wheel. The DS4 does not have some sort of magic physics going on. I'm faster with the wheel because I can control the car more accurately and there is no grip advantage with the controller.
- 817
- United States
Dude! Tire wear!!! It isn’t on during the qualifying sessions. Maybe your tires are worn out and you push?
- 817
- United States
Ohh. Hahaha. Well a bad wheel will do it!!!!!
K3Tuning
(Banned)
- 649
- United States
G29 im sorry to say is Junk and G wheels have been junk with GT since GT6.
From what I understand the G29 uses the same feedback hardware as the G27 IMO The feedback is too complicated for the system. It was too much for the G27 in GT6 terrible wheel for the game and clear if you've tried anything of quality.
The G wheels have a harsh transition when feedback switches direction, the stronger the feeback the more pronounced the transition is.
In GT6 it was as easy as take a hyper car to SSRX and in the banking turns the fighting feedback would have the wheel snapping back n forth so bad I would switch to DS3 in fear of the wheel falling apart. It was present all over the game just most violent in SSRX banked turns.
I dont know if the G29 is really the same as the G27 but upon taking the G27 apart they are pretty much a couple of the cheapest brushed motors I've ever seen, and I build electric RC lololool..
Oh yeah G wheels brake pedal needs calibration every time you start the game or plug in the pedals. To calibrare its as easy as floor the brake pedal, if you don't it will act like whatever your highest input has been is the 100% mark and will act like it until you press the pedal further. Example uf after the game loads you puch the pedal 50%, the game will act like 50% is full throttle.
You have to floor it after loading the game before the race starts.
From what I understand the G29 uses the same feedback hardware as the G27 IMO The feedback is too complicated for the system. It was too much for the G27 in GT6 terrible wheel for the game and clear if you've tried anything of quality.
The G wheels have a harsh transition when feedback switches direction, the stronger the feeback the more pronounced the transition is.
In GT6 it was as easy as take a hyper car to SSRX and in the banking turns the fighting feedback would have the wheel snapping back n forth so bad I would switch to DS3 in fear of the wheel falling apart. It was present all over the game just most violent in SSRX banked turns.
I dont know if the G29 is really the same as the G27 but upon taking the G27 apart they are pretty much a couple of the cheapest brushed motors I've ever seen, and I build electric RC lololool..
Oh yeah G wheels brake pedal needs calibration every time you start the game or plug in the pedals. To calibrare its as easy as floor the brake pedal, if you don't it will act like whatever your highest input has been is the 100% mark and will act like it until you press the pedal further. Example uf after the game loads you puch the pedal 50%, the game will act like 50% is full throttle.
You have to floor it after loading the game before the race starts.
- 5,684
- Ohio
I do just fine with DFGT, G27 and G29, thank you...
and yes, I've tried others. And rebuild RC motors for money. It's fine.
and yes, I've tried others. And rebuild RC motors for money. It's fine.
- 528
- United Kingdom
- PD_ApexPredator
This thread still makes 0 sense.
Original claim was that there is differing grip levels between old & new accounts; presumably you were playing on the same wheel when you were convinced this was the case?
The game doesn't have different physics depending on your hardware, and the G29 is not so bad as to be unusable with the game.
You mentioned something about Kie changing the physics by flicking a switch on his wheel - no. He's just putting his T-GT into Other mode so as to disable the transducer, presumably believing he'll be faster without the rumbles it produces when your front tyres begin to push wide.
Not even going to touch the DS4 tangent.
Original claim was that there is differing grip levels between old & new accounts; presumably you were playing on the same wheel when you were convinced this was the case?
The game doesn't have different physics depending on your hardware, and the G29 is not so bad as to be unusable with the game.
You mentioned something about Kie changing the physics by flicking a switch on his wheel - no. He's just putting his T-GT into Other mode so as to disable the transducer, presumably believing he'll be faster without the rumbles it produces when your front tyres begin to push wide.
Not even going to touch the DS4 tangent.
K3Tuning
(Banned)
- 649
- United States
Im not saying they are not fine. DFGT was my first wheel, then G27. They are working wheels but they are the bottom of the market for high rotation wheels. Using the G27 on GT6 then a basic TS300 let alone the big dog wheels and holy crap, its more than just the greatly increased power of the feed back but the feedback itself is night and day where the G wheels are kinda laughable 2 joke little motors fighting each other lol Trust me try out something of real quality you will never look at a G wheel the same if being honest and not an I bought it so its the best fanboy.
Rebuild RC motors? Like what rebuild a rebuildable brushless motor or you go beyond that and what re-wind them?
Rebuilding brushless RC motors is usually 3 screws and 60 seconds must be something else your talking about.
I've had to rebuild a few motors over the years from putting too much voltage through em for too long lol cuz its fun lol 9k kv motors on 3s run some stupid rpms lol don't last long
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