(NOT)Sandbagging it's something else. SOLVED!!

  • Thread starter sdi_03
  • 183 comments
  • 12,389 views
One thing, when the grip bug was on. All of the guys that could not keep up with the pace, were telling that something is wrong fix it.
Now that me, and some other has noticed it also, saying that the my grip is not the same as the rest of you, response is "just get better"
There has been lot of bugs in this game, but still no one considers the possibility, that there might be something wrong in my gamedata?
 
sdi_03
Try it with completely new account and connecting info. If you still are as fast as now, I will officially apologize and admit that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
Testing things on GT Sport is something I regularly do, so ....

Brand new email account.
Brand new PS account.

I haven't bothered with Sport Mode this week, so it was the first time I've had a look.
The new account didn't have any cars (other than a few DLC freebies) so the "loaner" event (Race A) seemed like a good choice.

My regular account.
40210147993_5f2527fbdf_c.jpg


My new account.
33299743408_d78f3ab826_c.jpg


Took me about 15 laps(?) to actually better what I thought was an already decent time.
 
This seems pretty convincing really. Only problem is, that I felt the loss of grip first time when jumping C to B and now at high B its there again.
Sorry to be noob on the account things, but how did you do that new account? I will try to do that same tonight and see if my times are better, or the grip. For that race a my qualy time now is 0:47.6xx
 
sdi_03
This seems pretty convincing really. Only problem is, that I felt the loss of grip first time when jumping C to B and now at high B its there again.
Sorry to be noob on the account things, but how did you do that new account? I will try to do that same tonight and see if my times are better, or the grip. For that race a my qualy time now is 0:47.6xx
Click to expand...
You will need an email account that isn't already attached to a PSN account.
(I simply opened a new email account)

Then, this link will tell you all about what to do on the PS4.
Scroll down to the "full step by step directions" and expand the PS4 tab.
https://www.playstation.com/en-au/g...o-use-playstation-4--to-create-a-sen-account/
 
Sooo, for my main accaunt, it was 0:47.6xx time. I made the new account as per intructions above. Broke my 47.6 quite fast....
Some more laps and here is my alter ego von_lers51 driving the car. (spoiler 0:47.316)



I think, that litle more driving and I could shave some time more. But this will do for now.
I took screen capture of the new profile, but dont want to link ps4 and facebook.
https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gtsport/user/profile/8721882/overview
266 pos in the region when this post is written.

Ill try the sdi_03 account tomorrow, if I can beat this time, or get even close
 
Tire wear is likely the biggest cause of people seeing varying performance.

It's currently a menace. Because they have this linear loss to it, it's gets slightly worse with every bit of wear. And, most races have wear rate multiplied. So, if you have a little slide, you get more wear on a side or corner, which means that corner will slide more in the next corner, causing even more wear, and then the next, etc, etc, etc.

So, let's say you screw up a corner, or lock up a brake, or even get a slight bump. That little bit of extra wear from that slight moment, can have a profound effect on the entire race.

Also, I know that if I get out of a rhythm, I am no good. If I have a good rhythm, I'm drastically better (like seconds a lap better).
 
Voodoovaj
Tire wear is likely the biggest cause of people seeing varying performance.

It's currently a menace. Because they have this linear loss to it, it's gets slightly worse with every bit of wear. And, most races have wear rate multiplied. So, if you have a little slide, you get more wear on a side or corner, which means that corner will slide more in the next corner, causing even more wear, and then the next, etc, etc, etc.

So, let's say you screw up a corner, or lock up a brake, or even get a slight bump. That little bit of extra wear from that slight moment, can have a profound effect on the entire race.

Also, I know that if I get out of a rhythm, I am no good. If I have a good rhythm, I'm drastically better (like seconds a lap better).
Click to expand...

This is very noticeable in the Race C dailys that are no-stoppers. A good smooth race and you might have tires that are only 50% red at the end but in a bad race with a lot of sliding/poor corners the tires can be 50% red mid-point of the race
 
sdi_03
Hello,

Little introduction before the question, for the first post. :)
I have played 52 days now, according to kudos. 23k DR:B SR:S at the moment. Was little over 27k on day 50. 114 online races.
My nick says -03 but Im 42y old, have been driving race cars on real track and my summer daily driver is 911.
So please, no comments about my driving history, I'm not here to argue, I really want to find the answer to my problem with the game.

So here's the problem. At online races, my cars suffer horrible understeer. Not on all races, but most of them.
The grip is always better on the offline content, but sometimes it just makes the online races impossible to race.
I bought the game, because of the online races, so this is really annoying to me.

I saw the Super-Gt:s new tube video yesterday, with his new shadow account, he was 1 sec off the pace. Why?? Because this game slows you down if you are not rated high enough. On last week daily gr4 race I saw this myself. My qualifying time was 1:41.5 and in top 500 in my region. I was mostly put on lobby that had A+ drivers in front of me 2 or 3. I could keep up with them one lap, but after we got to the long straight, they just drove into the distance?? Same speed out of the corner leading to the straight. My car was RCZ so it should have the speed to follow...

Is the game sandbagging me not to raise too fast? Is it a server problem(internet test gave me 95M in 9M out)? What is it??
Click to expand...
Yes it’s sandbagging you, they can and will control your account, Ive seen this since the beginning , was racing reckless drivers that would finish 10 to 20 seconds behind me, and overnight things changed dramatically were these same drivers would beat me by 25 seconds 1 nov 2017, there was mention about grip bugs but they haven’t said much about this, one Australian was slowed down by polyphony for his bug, and yes I had raced him many time were he would finish some were down the pack and was also a very wreckless driver, I’d never seen him win a race, and yes overnight no one could keep up with him(Devilsgraveyard). But he was slowed down by polyphony and yet I haven’t heard any thing about politics fixing this bug, so it goes to show that poly can mess with individual accounts, I have the same problem as you, I have replays from the beta test where it clearly shows how much more grip I had then, but my prob gets worse than yours, since update 1.15 my equipment got fried, I know the t500 thrustmasters had problems with that update, but I heard of no Fanatec that the same issue, as mine turned to crap, I’ve tried a tg-t and it felt real worse , loss of force, fan doesn’t stop, bought a new Fanatec wheel base not long ago, it felt the same as my old one straight away, firmware was all done before hand, did a fia nations the other day , a lot of slower people I knew there, I couldn’t keep up with anyone, daily races the same, lobbies feel great but
 
Here is vid from my main account. Opt. time was 0:47.5xx Best time 0:47.63x
You can clearly see the understeer on turn 3, before down hill, and last turn before straight. Could not go to full throttle or front would lose grip. It is more slippery with this account.

 
Well for track that has 3 turns that affects laptimes, the difference between accounts is .3 sec. For longer more twistier track this difference is much larger.
Or am I faster than you in both cases and that upsets you fastone?

The super grip bug was affecting single accounts and the reason was corrupted game data. So this is not possible to be other way around??
I have tryed to resolve this, just becouse I used to like this game.
This has been "the car game" for me since ps1.

game is broken for me, that I know for sure. How to fix that, well no way apparently.
For those who dont believe, what would be my motivation to try ro solve this?
Could drive that second account in regional pos 266. so I dont think that I'm slow??

But we can close this thread, thanks everyone that have tryed to help.
Peace and happy days :D
 
sdi_03
Well for track that has 3 turns that affects laptimes, the difference between accounts is .3 sec. For longer more twistier track this difference is much larger.
Or am I faster than you in both cases and that upsets you fastone?

The super grip bug was affecting single accounts and the reason was corrupted game data. So this is not possible to be other way around??
I have tryed to resolve this, just becouse I used to like this game.
This has been "the car game" for me since ps1.

game is broken for me, that I know for sure. How to fix that, well no way apparently.
For those who dont believe, what would be my motivation to try ro solve this?
Could drive that second account in regional pos 266. so I dont think that I'm slow??

But we can close this thread, thanks everyone that have tryed to help.
Peace and happy days :D
Click to expand...

Looking for my tin foil hat before I attempt to answer.
I dont know how many different ways people can try to explain that PD does not slow users down but many have tried with offers of proof and yet that is not enough.
Since a couple tenths is such a minute amount of time over a lap it can very easily be explained by driver input, we are not robots. We see this exact same thing in real life, why would you not expect it in a game? I would think you should accept these issues in a game much easier since we are missing so many of the senses that help us race in real life. In the game we are limited to what we see in a 2D world on a TV screen with the only feedback coming from a steering wheel not mechanically connected to anything. In real life we have everything from wheel feedback to lateral and longitudinal feedback, 3D vision, sound, and even bumps and surface feeling helping us to determine if we are on the correct place on track at the correct time. I have yet to "feel" any weight transfer on GTS, I can sort of see it and imagine it but without that true feel of each corner of the car getting loaded I dont know how you could expect to drive as consistent.
 
sdi_03
Well for track that has 3 turns that affects laptimes, the difference between accounts is .3 sec. For longer more twistier track this difference is much larger.
Or am I faster than you in both cases and that upsets you fastone?
Click to expand...

Ok, the answer is a little more complex.

So, regardless of tire wear, the tires ALWAYS react to heat and dirt. If you touch dirt, or even the marbles on the outside of a corner, it takes time for that tire(s) to be cleaned and regain it's normal level of grip. As with the wear issue, if you have a little less grip, you will be offline, and that can then make you offline for the next corner, etc, etc, etc. it also affects your acceleration and braking.

ABS is a slight misnomer in the game. It is not true full abs on default. During online races, especially since 1.32, you can see tire smoke from other cars going into hard braking zones. As the load on the brakes decrease (i.e. you lose speed) the tendency to lock a wheel goes up. Smoke comes from a completely locked wheel. That locked locked wheel will now have less grip.

If you scrub the tire sideways too much, you also build heat, which lessens the grip.

Remember this saying Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. it seems like somewhat of an oxymoron, but it's still a true statement. If you push hard and have a scruffy line, you will go slower.

This is why I prefer to pressure other drivers rather than making pass attempts. If you can get close and make people feel the need to push, most competitors push in the wrong manner. They screw up their grip and rub wide, or spin, or simply start putting in slower laps, making a pass easier.

This is what makes someone a better driver. They have the same car, but are smooth and not over loading the tires. Ergo, they do not need to lift as much, and lifting is where speed is lost.

Ever notice that when you push, you end up being slower than if you were not pushing? That's why. On this "slower" account, you are likely trying to be "as fast" as the other account, ergo pushing harder and ending up slower.
 
You both have wery valid points there. I agree with you, with driver inputs and everything else.
In my lers51 account I was able to put several laps between 0:47.3 - 0:47.6
sdi account variation was same, but constant .3 sec slower. Main thing that differs, is front end grip.

There is no way I can proof this, cause youll find my vids showing only driver variation. Im cool with that, but disagree with you.
And you cant come and test my rig, or you are welcome, if happen to be in neighbourhood :)
 
I'm honestly getting a little annoyed at this thread. I have two PSN accounts. I'll be back in a few hours with video footage to debunk whatever this thread has turned into.

EDIT:
sdi_03
You both have wery valid points there. I agree with you, with driver inputs and everything else.
In my lers51 account I was able to put several laps between 0:47.3 - 0:47.6
sdi account variation was same, but constant .3 sec slower. Main thing that differs, is front end grip.

There is no way I can proof this, cause youll find my vids showing only driver variation. Im cool with that, but disagree with you.
And you cant come and test my rig, or you are welcome, if happen to be in neighbourhood :)
Click to expand...
There is absolutely no difference. To absolutely make sure that I had my bases covered, here is my procedure and setup:

Thrustmaster T150
Wheel settings: 7/5/5
All assists off except ABS on Weak. Assists identical across accounts

Daily Event A - Qualifying
Main Account: RMedia_Obelisk B/B
Alt: ObeliskTD E/E

Procedure:
14 laps on Alt
14 laps on Main
Another 14 laps on Alt to ensure consistent data with first 14 lap session

Testing Results:
Main Acc:
upload_2019-2-23_21-32-35.png


Alt Acc:
upload_2019-2-23_21-33-52.png


The only difference in those laps were small errors on the alt account that prevented me from eeking out just enough pace to crack into the 47.9 zone.

There is NO game-caused discrepancy or hidden code changing the level of grip available to any driver/car combo. The only difference is said driver's mental state - just relax and stop trying to push to go faster. You'll just push too hard and arrest all forward progress.

Videos of laps can be made if requested.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Obelisk. Have you all seen this video from kie25?



Can you hear the desperation in his voice, when he says that B rated drivers should not be in top10?
Why is this?? That thay should not be in top10?
Aliens are born in top levels in this game. Hoard of aliens to be specific.
You can argue with my videos, and get offended by this thread. Im sorry, but statistics and math dont lie. B rated players are majority in this game, so if all things would be equal, there would be players from all levels at top 10. Even if its that fluke one of hundred chance for that lap time.

If you watch that video, wathc how lightning has problems with grip, this is exatly how I see/feel my game. Physics are different.

Now that you still believe, that Im just an complete tool for saing this. Go watch kie25's iRacing video, and see how alien/sennalikeability suddenly doesnot exist anymore.

Thank you all for participating this thread. And sorry for the bad feelings I have caused. That was not my intention.
 
That's some egregious track limit abuse.

SR/DR only applies in the context of a race, mind you. I've seen a ton of B-rank drivers who don't bother racing in Sport Mode but do invest a lot of time in the qualifying leaderboards. Hell, I hardly play GTS these days, so I'll forever be stuck in B/B because I don't commit enough time to the daily races.
 
sdi_03
Thanks Obelisk. Have you all seen this video from kie25?



Can you hear the desperation in his voice, when he says that B rated drivers should not be in top10?
Why is this?? That thay should not be in top10?
Aliens are born in top levels in this game. Hoard of aliens to be specific.
You can argue with my videos, and get offended by this thread. Im sorry, but statistics and math dont lie. B rated players are majority in this game, so if all things would be equal, there would be players from all levels at top 10. Even if its that fluke one of hundred chance for that lap time.

If you watch that video, wathc how lightning has problems with grip, this is exatly how I see/feel my game. Physics are different.

Now that you still believe, that Im just an complete tool for saing this. Go watch kie25's iRacing video, and see how alien/sennalikeability suddenly doesnot exist anymore.

Thank you all for participating this thread. And sorry for the bad feelings I have caused. That was not my intention.
Click to expand...

In your OP you claim that the game slows you down if you aren’t rated high enough, this evidence of an unrelated grip bug from June last year shows the opposite to that claim?
 
Pubs16
In your OP you claim that the game slows you down if you aren’t rated high enough, this evidence of an unrelated grip bug from June last year shows the opposite to that claim?
Click to expand...

Video is just to show the fact, that there are issues with this game.
It really seems, that issues that I'm having are not normal with this game, so I agree, that game does not slow you down.
Might be some gamedata issue, or something else. Or its all on me, who knows.
Will see how this weeks dailys goes, I have put lot of time to this game and not willing to give up yet.
 
Try clearing the network cache and studying your lap telemetry between a good and bad lap.
 
Ill try that. Thanks Obelisk. Grip has been consistent on this week, slippery, but consistent.
On first try, the FFB was really strong, had to restart the game to get it back to normal.

Did 1:32.0xx on daily c qualy, I noticed that I brake too much in some corners, just dont trust the grip that gr2 cars have.
So there is still room for better laptimes.
But that time puts me in 5-7 pos in start grid, so its easy to collect dr points. (if survive the ram attacks in t1)
Got my SR back to S and 1000 points DR up last night. closing 20k Dr again.
 
sdi_03
Noticed last night that my throttle bar on HUD was flickering, like 99% to 100%. Was looking that if someone was having this or any other problems with throttle. Found this thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/throttle-input-issue-need-help-solved.376565/

Damn, if this all was just a hardware problem. Exact same symptoms with the ds4, throttle flickering on 100%.
Need to test that solution tonight, and see if that makes a difference
Click to expand...
Hey, just a quick heads up - double posting is frowned upon here on GTP. There's a button that says Edit at the bottom of your posts, you can click on that to add more stuff to your previous post instead of making a new one.

That aside, yikes. That kind of issue would drive me absolutely nuts.
 
Obelisk
Hey, just a quick heads up - double posting is frowned upon here on GTP. There's a button that says Edit at the bottom of your posts, you can click on that to add more stuff to your previous post instead of making a new one.
Click to expand...
There was enough time in between them for that to be OK.
 

Similar threads

C
Online play free without PS Plus?
Replies
8
Views
3K
Chris9181
C
Clinton Ducks
Started playing yesterday and have a few Q’s, please?
Replies
3
Views
2K
OHM_fusion
OHM_fusion
Konto
Online players not moving in daily Race
Replies
1
Views
1K
TumeK5
TumeK5
afc5150
Can I run GT7 on PS4 and PS5 simultaneously?
Replies
6
Views
742
afc5150
afc5150
ElectroRel
  • Solved
Help Sport Mode
Replies
8
Views
957
ElectroRel
ElectroRel

Latest Posts

Back