Notes on Maximising A-Spec Points

[Famine]

I believe that what is shown at the beginning of the race is what you get. So yes, you can pit and switch to Racing Supersofts and still get the same A-spec points.

 

[BlazingDragon]

I believe that what is shown at the beginning of the race is what you get. So yes, you can pit and switch to Racing Supersofts and still get the same A-spec points.

mmm.... I haven't done a race in which I have to make a pitstop yet, but that's going to come in handy..

Famine, just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work you've put into this thread 👍
But, and there's always a but, being the engineer and pedant that I am, I have to (at least try and) pick a couple of holes. Caveat is that I'm using the NTSC/USA version of GT4:

First, in regard to:

(if you weren't aware, GT4 has a specific set of opposition cars on each game day - visit the same race on the same day and you'll have the same field of AI cars)

I have evidence that this is not true - a number of times I have entered an event, seen my (far too speedy opposition on the menu screen) and decide discretion is the better part of valour - i.e. chickened out and pressed "triangle".
This does not increase the day count (as proved by the in-game diary and my profuse notes), but it has (occasionlly) offered me up different competion. The "Boxer Spirit" races in Professional Hall are a definite example.

Second, and I may be interpreting your statement too literally, but the following cannot mathematically be true:

A-Spec Points Are Dependant Upon (in rank order):
1. Comparison of figures with opponent car which would score lowest A-spec points if entered into race.
2. Tyre choice (softest axle only).
3. Weight of player car.
4. Power-to-weight ratio of player car.

A-Spec points are Independant of:
Car power.
Remainder of AI grid.
Any non-power, non-weight, non-tyre part (including suspension and Nitrous).
Track.

Basically, the two statements underlined above contradict each other, i.e.:
A-spec points can't be independent of power if it's dependent on power/weight..

Hopefully we'll end up with something like:
A == ß + a * x + b * x/ y + c * T ... etc...
where A = A-spec points
ß = magical car comparison
x = vehicle mass
y = vehicle power
T = tyre choice
a, b, c, etc... are constants
It basically says you'd have infinite A-spec points if your power = 0, which seems 'bout right to me...
Looking forward to your response (with trepidation!!)...

By the way, and this is kind off off-topic, has anyone started to put together a GT4 A-spec database where people can upload their car, race and A-spec points for each race and compare? I may be tempted, if no one else already has one in process, in a few months (when I get to 100%, bit I'm in no rush).....

P.S. Apologies to all; I have a heavy cold and don't have the energy/skill to play GT4 tonight, hence the overlong posting

 

[Famine]

If you were to restart the console, you'd see the first field of opponents. Trust me


Now, it may seem contrary that the points are independant of power, but dependant on PWR, but it's true.

A car with 300hp, 1000kg kerb weight and 300hp/tonne will garner less points than a car with 600hp, 2000kg kerb weight and 300hp/tonne. Right?

That means that the points will go UP despite the fact that power goes up - it's dependant on the vehicle weight in this instance. The PWR remains the same so can be cancelled out.

It's bizarre, I know. But the basic "power" rating is not used in calculation of A-spec points. Logically, since power is an integral part of the phrase "power-to-weight ratio" it does, but since weight and PWR are the primary functions, raw power ratings are superfluous.

 

[Taowulf]

Looking at power to weight ratio for a given car is more accurate than HP for one simple reason.

A 1000lb car with 100hp should be roughly equivilent to a car that weighs 2000lbs/200hp.

Very roughly.

However, pump the engine of that 1k'er up to 200hp and the power to weight advantage for that car goes up dramatically, therefore giving it a tremendous advantage.

Theoretically speaking.

 

[jbrennen]

A 1000lb car with 100hp should be roughly equivilent to a car that weighs 2000lbs/200hp.

Very roughly.

Yeah, very roughly.

If it's a high-speed track where aerodynamic efficiency comes into play, the higher power higher weight car will have an advantage.

If it's a low-speed technical track where braking and cornering are emphasized, the lower power lower weight car will have an advantage.

 

[BlazingDragon]

If you were to restart the console, you'd see the first field of opponents. Trust me


Now, it may seem contrary that the points are independant of power, but dependant on PWR, but it's true.

Fair enough. 👍 I knew yo'd be up for the challenge.

 

[DankBuds]

Downforce settings play a part in how much A-spec points you get.

 

[Spottedlaurel]

By the way, and this is kind off off-topic, has anyone started to put together a GT4 A-spec database where people can upload their car, race and A-spec points for each race and compare? I may be tempted, if no one else already has one in process, in a few months (when I get to 100%, bit I'm in no rush).....

Kind of, yes. I'm keeping a list going as I progress (24% at the moment) and I'm logging what mod's I have fitted to a particular car as it's entered for each race and what my A-spec point haul is. I'm suprised how low this figure is even for what is quite a competitive race - it's rare I get into double figures! - but this may be more due to my inept driving and need for a slightly overpowered car (but from the posts above, perhaps this is actually due to my cars having a good PWR).

From memory, best score was 184 points for Tsukuba Wet Normal when I raced my modified Nismo 400R against (I think) the SLR. This was a far easier victory than the points would have suggested.

I haven't really experimented to see what affects the points, but power didn't have much bearing in one race I did. After a couple of easy wins in the Suzuki K Cup, I knocked off the Stage 2 turbo from my Alto Works to see if I could get a few more points. Points went from something like 5 up to a heady 8, and yet there was no way I was ever going to catch that pesky Cappuccino.

 

[Famine]

By the way, and this is kind off off-topic, has anyone started to put together a GT4 A-spec database where people can upload their car, race and A-spec points for each race and compare? I may be tempted, if no one else already has one in process, in a few months (when I get to 100%, bit I'm in no rush).....

Missed that earlier...

jhiza is working on the GT4Times database. I've suggested including A-spec points as rankable data along with times. You never know...

 

[foghorn_100]

i got 200 a-spec pts for 4wd beginner using the dodge ram hemi pickup without many mods, and got 162 in the pickup race with the dodge just about fully modded. i beleive it is connected to power to weight ratio more than any thing else.
gt3 100% complete 100%accurate x 3
gt concept and gt4 prologue 100% with all gold
gt4 14% and investigating

Kind of, yes. I'm keeping a list going as I progress (24% at the moment) and I'm logging what mod's I have fitted to a particular car as it's entered for each race and what my A-spec point haul is. I'm suprised how low this figure is even for what is quite a competitive race - it's rare I get into double figures! - but this may be more due to my inept driving and need for a slightly overpowered car (but from the posts above, perhaps this is actually due to my cars having a good PWR).

From memory, best score was 184 points for Tsukuba Wet Normal when I raced my modified Nismo 400R against (I think) the SLR. This was a far easier victory than the points would have suggested.

I haven't really experimented to see what affects the points, but power didn't have much bearing in one race I did. After a couple of easy wins in the Suzuki K Cup, I knocked off the Stage 2 turbo from my Alto Works to see if I could get a few more points. Points went from something like 5 up to a heady 8, and yet there was no way I was ever going to catch that pesky Cappuccino.

 

[foghorn_100]

i got 200 a-spec pts for 4wd beginner using the dodge ram hemi pickup without many mods, and got 162 in the pickup race with the dodge just about fully modded. i beleive it is connected to power to weight ratio more than any thing else.
gt3 100% complete 100%accurate x 3
gt concept and gt4 prologue 100% with all gold
gt4 14% and investigating

Downforce settings play a part in how much A-spec points you get.

 

[Gabkicks]

yeah me two. It shows there's some small problems with the A-spec system. because the dodge ram slightly modified owns all the other trucks in the races.

 

[skicrush]

Looking at power to weight ratio for a given car is more accurate than HP for one simple reason.

A 1000lb car with 100hp should be roughly equivilent to a car that weighs 2000lbs/200hp.

Very roughly.

However, pump the engine of that 1k'er up to 200hp and the power to weight advantage for that car goes up dramatically, therefore giving it a tremendous advantage.

Theoretically speaking.

I've given up trying to earn A-spec points. I've been spanked by 6+ seconds on a 3 lap race that was worth 7 A-spec points, and I've done the spanking by a similar margin on races worth 120+points. And that's without even mentioning the Ram. Power to weight might be a better judge when racing JGTC or LeMans cars (or any full bred race car for that matter), but on the Beginner, Pro, and manufacturer races, it is woefully inadequate.

 

[Kolyana]

Well, in the Japanese 70's event (pre 70's cars?), on Test Course with a Toyota 2000GT ('67), the best AI driver on there with me had exactly the same car. No mods, pure stock ... the race was worth 10 points for A-spec for SOME of the races and 9 points for some of the others.

Same two cars, different (LOW) points.

 

[Tbone]

Just a quick observation for those that care:
In my NA version, in the tune-up screen(at a race), at the bottom (just above the scrolling text) there is a list of some of my upgrades...even if they are not currently installed, might this be a list of influencing factors for calculating points? And that they count against you even if not actually installed...or perhaps the factors in use during a previous run of that race? I have not investigated b/c I don't keep up with it, but y'all do...

 

[04Nissan350Z]

I think so, cause I went in with an unmodified M5 into a race 1 time and it said 90 points, but once I put mods on it, it said 5. So I believe that does influence the amount of points u get, could be the power I don't know.

 

[String King]

I had 150 with the Ram in the US truck racing on a standing start race which I won comfortably, but only 62 for a rolling start race at Laguna & never saw which way the lead car went. Added fresh oil & wet back & mashed it!

Go figure

I wonder if anyone at Sony understands the A-spec points system?

 

[PerryMason]

I just wanted to make the comment that it's not quite true that A-Spec points mean nothing.

With a set number of points on each race (200) and a set number of points for each mission (250) logically there's a set number of points in total in the game. Get 200 points on every race + win every race + win every mission = True 100% GT4 Mastery.

So yeah it's for props only, but I like it.

 

[cjmurph]

First of all, thanks for the great work Famine. after finding this thread I decided that the best control environment was the special conditions hall (one opponent that is pretty much always the same or can be with little effort) it really cuts down on the variables. I think you are spot on with the power to weight and more specifically weight being the determining factor, however. while tires do obviously have an affect, it would seem that traction as a whole is of importance. By altering downforce alone from 0 to 15 (both front and back) I was able to deprive myself of 20 A-Spec points. I don't know if specific suspension settings do anything but downforce definetly does. hope this helps, I'll keep experimenting as I get time. thanks again

 

[Luzifer42]

Hello,
I did the Opel Speedster Races. I took an Opel Speedster Turbo and tuned everything to the max, and took the medium race tires, I think. You opponets are Opel Speedster and Opel Speedster Turbo. You get at least 190 points, and it is not very difficult to win the race.

 

[FRST]

Thanks a lot for the tests Famine I was going to try it
TOo bad the A-spec points system is a failure :/
bah as long as I get between 20-100 I'm happy

 

[Uncle Harry]

The A spec system is flawed in GT4.
First case.
Buy the Audi A3 3.2 and enter the one make series in the A3 races.
All the opponents are equal 3.2 Audi A3.
A spec points offered are 60 using the sport tires medium that come with the car.
Adding sports suspension, drive train components ( clutch, flyewheel), brakes and NOS does not decrease the 60 points.
To get more A spec points add the 200 kg extra weight and you have 80 points on offer. Use the NOS to overcome the extra mass.
Add the normal road tire and 111 a spec points are offered. Once again use the NOS to win if needed.
Add the worst road tire and A spec points go up again to about 136. (exact number may be a few less.)
Is there another way to increase points further?
Is it possible to get 200 points for these races?

Second case.
Reducing downforce on the F1 car for high speed tracks so you can achieve higher top speed gives you more a spec points.

 

[Jetboy.]

Very nicely done, Famine, and, although it is a touch confusing if you breeze over it, it does show that PD is, at best, very inconsistant... Go figure.

All I can add to this is that my 205 Evolution II Rally Car only got 37 points at the Hard Tsukaba Wet despite being bone stock...against a Sauber C9. I redid the race, added a 75 (kg?) ballast weight to the front end and instantly recieved around 70 pts. (Kinda fuzzy, long time ago.) The car also got a renewed attitude, but not without a fight from the C9, which I had to plow into the armco on the last hairpin turn . Like I had said before, inconsistant at best...

 

[slackbladder]

Very nicely done, Famine, and, although it is a touch confusing if you breeze over it, it does show that PD is, at best, very inconsistant... Go figure.

All I can add to this is that my 205 Evolution II Rally Car only got 37 points at the Hard Tsukaba Wet despite being bone stock...against a Sauber C9. I redid the race, added a 75 (kg?) ballast weight to the front end and instantly recieved around 70 pts. (Kinda fuzzy, long time ago.) The car also got a renewed attitude, but not without a fight from the C9, which I had to plow into the armco on the last hairpin turn . Like I had said before, inconsistant at best...

Hmmm...and I got 200pts doing the same race with my black 787B! I can only think the reason why I gt so many points is because I was driving a very fast car on a wet surface and it was, technically, very tricky....therefore I earned high A-spec points....
Well..try as I may these "A-spec" points seem to defy sense.
It's nice to win a race with good A-spec points...but I never bother to earn high ones. They don't even inform you if the race you're about to have is easy or hard because you only see these points once you've started the race! What help is that? I'd rather see these points before I enter a race so I can tune my car to either increase them or decrease them, not go into a race, cancel the race, tune the car again, then go back in. The "A-spec" points system isn't at all well applied in the game.

 

[hispeed]

Hello,
I did the Opel Speedster Races. I took an Opel Speedster Turbo and tuned everything to the max, and took the medium race tires, I think. You opponets are Opel Speedster and Opel Speedster Turbo. You get at least 190 points, and it is not very difficult to win the race.

If you go for the Opel Speedster instead of the turbo, you get 200 A-spec points even with max tuning. Try to win this without NOS!!

 

[RapierSC]

If you go for the Opel Speedster instead of the turbo, you get 200 A-spec points even with max tuning. Try to win this without NOS!!

Hehe, I know, that race is mad, but 200points a race isn't bad. For a really awful race, try la festa italiano. I tried with the baddest cars I could (reasonably) find, ie Alfa 147GTA and Fiat Coupe. Got creamed every time. There's literally no chance of making 1st (for me anyway) in that race, since it's unmodified only (this was before I used NOS).
And btw, the a-spec point for this race was a puny 94... Heh, 940 would be more like it!

Finally got tired, bought me a pagani and zipped through it not feeling guilty at all. I guess that was the way PD intended it to be raced... 👎

 

[Moloch_horridus]

A few points I would like to add (PAL version):

- I disagree with the claim that a-spec points are independent of the whole field - this can be observed in a race where there are only two possible opponents (eg Alpine Cup) - a-spec points will change depending on the ratio of A310s to A110s in the race.

BTW: to all those who complain that you cannot see what a-spec points you will earn before the race - this is because your opponents are not determined until you enter the race so you have to enter before points can be calculated [however, if Famine's claim that the field is set for a given day is correct - and I have no reason to disbelieve it (and presumably the field for reentering the race on the same day is also set) then PD could have coded the game to let you know before entering - that would have been very nice.

- I was interested to see that qualifying position (and not qualifying at all) has no effect on points. What may effect points though is whether a race is raced as part of a championship or as a single race.

My example is the Clio Trophy: I entered the championship with a '03 V6 Phase 2 with Lightweight Stage 3, NA Tune Stage 1, Racing Exhaust and Chip, S2 tyres, Racing Suspension and all the dirvetrain goodies. The opponents are always all Clio Race Cars.

Various combinations of the power upgrades and ballast gave anywhere between 97 and 166 points. All races were easy to win except El Capitan where I could not get the car to stop spinning out and came last. So in order to get gold in all the races I entered just the single race, enabled all my mods and got offered 200 points! However, still could not control the car so DNF. I will be entering the other races individually to see if the same thing happens.

- There seems to be a bit of complaining that because such and such example yielded this stupid number of points that the whole system is useless. I disagree. For many series the system works very well, particularly the manufacturer races. It is a shame the system is not holeproof but it would be to much to expect a simple algorithm to cope with all the possible combinations when there are 700+ vehicles to compare. We just need to work out which races the Ram 1500 can be entered in and ignore a-spec points for them.

- Suspension and drivetrain upgrades have no effect on a-spec points. My guess is that those observing this were actually seeing changes based on changes to the field.

BTW: Never buy Close or Super Close Transmissions, they are useless. My bloody unmodded Nissan Cube EX topped out on Suzuka East's straight with a close tranny (and I think I had a similar problem in my Suby 360 somewhere). These must be the two most useless upgrades imaginable.

Famine, thanks for starting this thread - very useful 👍

 

[remote]

looks like you guys found by far the coolest thing to possibly talk about online......

nice work....
👍

 

[Deondre]

You want some hard A Spec points to earn? I took the S.S AE86 with a turbo (can't remember if it was 2 or 3) and entered the 'Turbo' cup in the Professional Hall. First race was worth 119 A-Spec, 2nd one was worth 141, 3rd was 171 ( I changed tires, I think that's why the points went up) and I was stuck at the New York Race (worth 141 as well). Did a complete full tune on the car and with the Nitrous turned all the way up for power I was able to win against Skylines, Supra RZs, a Buick GN and a few others just to name a few.

 

[Lethalchem]

BTW: Never buy Close or Super Close Transmissions, they are useless. These must be the two most useless upgrades imaginable.

I can't agree with you at all on this. Perhaps you're using them incorrectly. I'm not sure how, but you must be, as I find them very helpful, especially with the lower HP cars.