Notre Dame Cathedral is burning

  • Thread starter Dennisch
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If there's no lives on the line, I don't think they'll put any on the line to save a building. Reminds me of when Windsor Castle caught fire... they left a hose dousing the roof so the TV camera's had something to point at, but they weren't going to send in firefighters to save curtains and paintings.
 
This is an absolute tragedy. Notre Dame is the historical heart of Paris. I've read that the main structure of the building may be saved.

I worry the walls of the naive may become unstable and fall without the roof. They are heavily buttressed on the exterior, but rely quite a bit on the framing of the roof at the top to stop them from falling inwards. The main towers, if the fire is not threatening them, should be fine.
 
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See my edit. Looks like it's doubtful the building can be saved.

It's looking more hopeful that the stone structure is saved. One problem with that is there are parts of the structure where the wood frame is vital. Another problem is that it's a limestone building held together with hydraulic lime mortars. A combination of great heat and a lot of water can destroy the joints, something the pompiers will have been well aware of and will have been trying to avoid.

Report earlier indicated from a priest that they saved all the artefacts and artwork.

Sadly not entirely. A number of heavy statues had just been restored and returned to the cathedral. Fortunately some works were off-site being restored. Hopefully they had time to rescue some of the more portable works, but much of the artwork (including the incredible 12th century choirs) are very much fixed in place, and very much made of wood.

One positive is that Prof. Tallon had undertaken an epic 3D-scanning project of the interior and exterior of the cathedral, all the detail has been recorded for posterity and, as it turns out, possible restoration.

EDIT:

From @Milouse in the Europe thread, a view from a firefighter's drone (merci, @Milouse).

D4OAr8_X4AAdCMD.jpg
 
How did the fire start? Arson? Was it Russians, yellow vests, or who? Had there been threats?
 
The place will make for magnificent ruins like what they have in Greece and Egypt. Fence it off and charge admission to the tourists. Nothing like it can ever be built again.
 
Man = Small surface area

waterdrops = small surface area.

It isn't a wall of water coming down. It's a lot of small drops. There are plenty of videos out there showing what happens when water gets dropped by a plane. It becomes heavy rain. Perhaps some parts would be vulnerable but most of it would be able to take the dump.

But even then, we are discussing nonsense. I don't think they have the sort of planes anywhere near Paris.
 
Replied in this thread, quoted from Europe:

For everyone who mocks Orange man bad idea.

https://www.ad.nl/video/kanalen/bui...sche-agent-kletsnat-door-blusvliegtuig~p40637

The structure will survive if a man can survive, while holding his phone, as well as the car his laughing colleagues are in. It isn't actually very solid if dumped at speed and altitude.

That's not the main problem. Rapidly cooling particular areas of stonework is a bad idea as it can cause thermic shock fractures, it's actually a technique that firefighters sometimes use to deliberately collapse parts of structures using hoses. Given that this is also a limestone/hydraulic building as little water as possible should be directed onto the stone work. Finally, as @Eunos_Cosmo points out, a man has a small surface area. The west facade of Notre Dame has a surface area of about 2,300 square metres and a thickness of about 1 metre. That's not going to enjoy a couple of tons of water loading diagonally across it at speed.
 
For everyone who mocks Orange man bad idea.

https://www.ad.nl/video/kanalen/bui...sche-agent-kletsnat-door-blusvliegtuig~p40637

The structure will survive if a man can survive, while holding his phone, as well as the car his laughing colleagues are in. It isn't actually very solid if dumped at speed and altitude.

Cool theory, but on the other hand:



Not an architecture expert, but... Large building like old churches have lots of empty space inside them (what you'd call a "great hall structure"). That is why if you impart any small vibration on an old church it will come down to a heap of rubble faster than you can say "Norcia". Same principle applies here: dropping a ton of water even on a small building may not do much damage, but on Notre Dame, it would be like bombing it.

Gothic buildings are especially supscetible to this. Roman churches will survive just about anything you can throw at them, with smaller rooms (meaning the traditional "box model" applies) and thick walls.
 
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Apparently the roof had a lot of lead in it. Will the lead drip harmlessly to the ground, or will some drift off in the smoke and ashes?
 
Also, can the threads/posts be merged?

Yeah it would be good if a mod could merge the relevant posts from the Europe thread into this one.

Apparently the roof had a lot of lead in it. Will the lead drip harmlessly to the ground, or will some of drift off in the smoke and ashes?

I can imagine there might be some toxic materials in the air but as it was not an explosion the amount of ejected debris will likely be less widespread. Also as very old buildings have mainly natural materials used in construction there should be minimal amounts of bad stuff apart from maybe, as you said, the lead but I think it would probably drip down.
 
Just saw that. Lasted all this time. Hope someone didn't have too many tools plugged in.

To be fair, a lot of it lasted merely 150 years - large portions of the roof were rebuilt, and the spire was added, during the Viollet-le-Duc restoration in the 1860s. Which is not to say that it wasn't worth anything, or that a lot of what went up in smoke wasn't over 800 years old, but one has to think of the positives.

And let's just say that if the fire was caused by something as stupid as a contractor not taking the proper fire-prevention precautions while working on site, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.
 
My thoughts and prayers go to the families of all those who've lost their lives, and also to those that have lost their homes....

... wait ...
 
This is from the entrance.
Apparently the part under the stone arch structure has been less affected than i feared (the four roofs collapsed ON the stone structure).
D4OiEkYXkAAuY4Y.jpg:large

That is absolutely incredible. Incredible. Je peux pas ce croire.
 
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