NYC Protest - "Occupy Wall Street"
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Keef
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Hacking into the global market's network (I have to assume it is proprietary on some level) would be quite the...accomplishment, I suppose. If they could manage that then every other NYSE feed around the world would be affected.
I still feel it's a bit misguided. The main problem lies with the government's principles, not with that of businesses. Businesses are out to make money, and when governments encourage them to make money is increasingly devilish ways, they will. The only way to regulate bad behavior seems to be with a free market - basically, one company's behavior is regulated by their competitors and their customers, and everything in the market depends on everything else for mutual benefit. Anyone found to be going against the grain will eventually be stifled by market forces.
I still feel it's a bit misguided. The main problem lies with the government's principles, not with that of businesses. Businesses are out to make money, and when governments encourage them to make money is increasingly devilish ways, they will. The only way to regulate bad behavior seems to be with a free market - basically, one company's behavior is regulated by their competitors and their customers, and everything in the market depends on everything else for mutual benefit. Anyone found to be going against the grain will eventually be stifled by market forces.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
Not really Keef, especially when we see people argue about what is better FM4 (a game not out) vs GT5 on this forum like it is going to make them money or support their family by being right. I mean if people put as much time into that as they do for the game war, then more people would understand what's going on and challenge this and other gov'ts like ours.
Keef
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You'd be surprised how many Americans simply don't give a rat's ass about anything but paying their bills on time and winning video game flame wars. 
Same difference bro. As long as people can afford the things they want, most of them can't be bothered to educate themselves further.
Same difference bro. As long as people can afford the things they want, most of them can't be bothered to educate themselves further.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
You'd be surprised how many Americans simply don't give a rat's ass about anything but paying their bills on time and winning video game flame wars.
Yeah I know and sadly that is why the Gov't will always do things that opress people mentaly and financially. Also I hope you're not a fan of Bernanke.
Joey D
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I blame both businesses, and more specifically the executives of businesses, and the government for breaking the economy. You have a bunch of greedy people in charge of both that have lost the connection with the average middle class American.
Politicians do whatever the the lobby with the biggest cheque book asks of them. Businesses do whatever is in the best interest of getting the executives more money. No where in there is there is anything that allows the average middle class worker a chance to do anything. I know someone will pipe up and say it's in the best interest of a company to make a profit, but why is it at the cost of the average American? You can turn a profit while still supporting jobs, by you know, reinvesting that money in America instead of sending it where ever else.
What pissed me off the most was when Herman Cain babbled this idiotic comment:
"I dont have facts to back this up, but I happen to believe that these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the failed policies of the Obama administration. Dont blame Wall Street. Dont blame the big banks. If you dont have a job, and youre not rich, blame yourself!"
So when I was unemployed it was my fault? I didn't get fired, my reviews were stellar and I completed everyone of my projects and then some. I was a valuable, contributing member to the institution, however I still lost my job. And finding another job wasn't easy and it definitely wasn't a lack of trying.
I think Cain's comments just show how disconnected politicians have come with the 99% of Americans that aren't rich. I very much blame the banks for making loans they shouldn't have, I had nothing to do with that.
I can safely say I hate the way this country is turning out, I hate the politicians for not fixing it and I hate the rich for being greedy and accelerating the downward spiral. It's disgusting to watch the news and see everything that is going on and honestly I can't blame the Occupy Wallstreet protestors, they are speaking what's on a vast majority of American's minds...and they aren't completely disconnected like the Tea Party.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
No he's not disconnected, he is well connected but he is a GOP that wants to be acknowledged by those same corps that took you out of a job and made it to where hiring you or me or anyone else was an up hill struggle. I went out and got a degree and am trying to get more, I've never been fired yet some how when I was unemployed it was my fault? Cain wants money so he can win the GOP and it's obvious he doesn't want to pay attention to the facts. That's why I see Paul and Huntsman as the only two in the GOP that are in the middle and make sense. Not this BS that Cain, Perry, Bachman, Romeny and that idiot Santorum spew. Oh and the bs Obama and Co. spew as well.
Joey D
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Cain may be connected with the GOP, but is strongly disconnected for the reality. I think Ron Paul is equally as disconnected as well and I believe he would be a terrible leader, much like Bush was and Obama is.
The only GOP candidate that I think has any sense in John Huntsman. Everything I've read or heard about him makes me believe he is the right man for the job in the current situation we are in. I don't think he would be able to fix everything, but I don't think he would damage anything further.
Keef
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Lobbying is allowed and is normal practice. If it was not allowed, and maybe heavily penalized, the practice would probably come to an end. It's basically bribery, which is illegal.
Businesses do whatever is in the best interest of making money in general. Good businesses work with their employees, customers, and suppliers for mutual benefit. Happy employees help productivity. Happy customers ensure a reliable income. Happy suppliers continually provide quality work in a timely manner. All parts of making money.
Sometimes companies screw it up, but suddenly, General Motors.
I agree. The economic bubble bursting was not the fault of little people like us. Despite small groups of people protesting Keynesian economics since its inception, their warnings were always ignored.
As I've said numerous times, the cruel behavior of the biggest banks was encouraged and even insured by the government. It was policy! The government instituted penalties for banks who refused to take risks they normally would not have taken. It was insured by the government (just like your savings account, which is bogus).
I mean at least we could be living in the muscle car days, or maybe in the 50s, or some other day and age where everybody was having fun. But no. My honest opinion is that this era sucks ass, but I remain optimistic that it can be made better.
Joey D
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Right, it is bribery in another name. This is why I heavily disagree with it. A candidate should support their own personal values and outlook on the country, not what a lobby and money tell them. I think that's a big part of the reason politicians have lost touch.
So just about every major company doing business in the US is practicing terrible business. Yes, they are making money but they do not have happy employee. The only way I see the economy turning around is to have happy employees again that get fair wages for the work they do, acceptable benefits and job security. If you have a bunch of happy people with a bit of extra income, they are going to buy things, travel to tourist points and invest it for their retirement or just for financial gain.
The way I see it is if you appease the working masses, the economy wins. I know if I had a stable job I'd be buying, traveling and investing up a storm.
Right, this is why I put just as much blame on the government and it's leaders as I do with banks. They both failed...hard.
I am not optimistic at all, I feel we are heading for a major recession and things are about to go from bad to worse. I feel that if we keep Obama in the White House we will enter that worse phase and pretty much all the front runners for the GOP will do pretty much the same thing. I am honestly struggling to work up the desire to ever vote again since you either elected one idiot or another.
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To be honest I don't see Ron Paul anywhere close to Bush or Obama, and I've agreed with you on your knowledge but that is just wrong on a fact basis. Everything that RP has voted for or I say against are things that make the GOP want to shut him down and the left paint him invisible. For example Obama said in 08 that is first move would be to pull the troops yet he increased size and has plans that say the opposite. This is something that I assure you Paul or Huntsman if elected would bring home the troops. That is why military voters like Paul. Paul has also said things that make the GOP and Dems want to keep him hush hush. If you support this Wall St. movement you'll see that many of them are on Ron Pauls side they're not on the left like the media want to paint and they are for sure not on the right. They are middle road people wanting freedom and the ability to live with out the left vs right politics.
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Joey D
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I don't think Ron Paul is on the same field as Bush or Obama, I see him on the same level of awfulness just in another way. His policies and ideas scare me because I think they would have extremely negative effects on the country, especially how he views taxes. I also strongly disagree with his views on healthcare reform because I think what he's proposed would make the healthcare crisis even worse.
I don't think he would be able to bring the troops home either, we are in such a quagmire (giggity) in the Middle East that I don't see it ending anytime soon. Although the main reason I dislike Obama is over increasing troops support in the Middle East and perpetuating the errors of the former administration.
I do support the Wall St. movement and I know many of them support Ron Paul, but I just can't. I know there are things he supports that I do too, but having libertarian principals makes me strongly dislike him. I do not and cannot support a candidate like that, even John Huntsman makes me wary but I think he's world better then Ron Paul because I don't think he is insane.
* And this does pertain to the Occupy Wall St. protests as the candidate that gets their support has a huge boost in the polls. Much like the Tea Party.
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Then who do you support cause listening to these guys, they dislike the left as well. And the left is just as sick and disgusting as the right, so I don't know what canidate people are looking for when they cringe at a person under the GOP scope. Just cause they're there doesn't me they are or follow GOP, every one but the two I named seem like Neo-Cons. I see Paul and think of old time fiscal conservatives, or constitutionalist. Also just curious what's wrong with Libertarians?
Joey D
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I don't know anything about him so I can't form an opinion.
I don't support any candidate, they've all pretty much shown me they are disconnected from reality, some more than others. Not to mention in order to be in politics and get elected, you need to have sound financial means. I believe these are exactly the type of people the OWS movement is against. It makes no sense to be apart of the movement and support someone who makes millions, at least in my opinion.
And I believe Libertarian base their entire ideology in a utopian world full of wishful thinking. I see their idea totally unattainable while keeping the country in working order and not leaving millions of people by the wayside. There ideas make me fearful of their election into office so I would never support or vote for a candidate that supports those principals. I've been around GTP enough to know someone will probably spout off a huge wall of text about this, but I'll just say now I'm not here to debate my disgust for a political party.
- 22,551
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I see what you mean I don't see the Libertarian's in that way they are more of the idea that OWS support. No need for big gov't, massive regulation, and people that control the system in which we all coexist in. I myself have talked to libertarians and they never had the idea of a utopia. Also though a Utopia isn't real, I think it would be better to strive for that, than the dystopian world that is coming down the turnpike. Well I'm glad you helped me understand better I don't want to argue either just share ideas so thank you for that. Also about canidates, I tend to look at it this way. There seems to be one good guy every once in a while trying to be president and do right by people and not the money hungry companies. However, they must work in the election system and must have a large amount of money to win and that is the nature of the twisted election system we allow in today's world. I mean the Supreme Court decided yes on allowing companies to back canidates exclusively, that to me shows that there is something wrong with Gov't in all three branches. Just saying I see it easy to support someone, they are just using the system they fight against so they can come to power and change it after using it to their benefit.
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This has now "spread" to Sydney and there is a sit in planned for the financial district from today. It's raining, happily, and of course the majority of the protestors have donned masks for the media, because being a hippie also means you don't want your friends to find out.
Would be great it if hailed today too 👍
Would be great it if hailed today too 👍
Dapper
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If that is true, then the OWS group is badly misguided, but that isn't the case. The government needs to intervene, that is the point. The ideology that Ron Paul supports, laissez faire, is why the economy is the way it is. The economic down turn (for most of the country that is) is a direct effect of deregulation that happened in the 1980's.
The GDP has continued to grow at a steady rate while most American's pay has not. That is what people are upset about, and rightfully so.
Danoff
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What an appalling article. The fact that you (apparently) continually immerse yourself in this kind of ideologically biased commentary seems to leave you unable to distinguish a "good article" from unabashed, self-serving, one-sided propaganda.
Yes, Steve Jobs actually WAS a "job creator". He was instrumental in building not just a single business, but an entirely new, world-changing industry. In doing so, he also made a lot of money.
The Wall Street protests are not aimed at genuine entrepreneurs & "job-creators", they are aimed at a financial system which allowed privileged individuals to fraudulently manipulate the system to line their own pockets, while driving the businesses they were supposed to be working for to the edge of ruin, & seriously damaging the wider economy, forcing the government to intervene to prevent a general collapse of the financial system & the economic turmoil & human misery that would have resulted.
(Of course, I understand that many libertarian purists would be perfectly happy to see a general collapse of the financial system & the economic turmoil & human misery that would result because to them, like the Maoist Gang of Four, human misery is a small price to pay in the pursuit of ideological purity.)
The protests are also aimed at a political system which is bought & paid for by the Wall Street manipulators, so that no punishment was exacted on the perpetrators of the fraud & no serious measures put in place to prevent a repeat occurrence.
In his article Michael Tanner's disingenuously ignores the actual concerns of the protesters, & introduces the red herring of Steve Jobs the "job-creator" to ridicule the protestors & avoid addressing the real issues.
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Danoff
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I like that you understand and can speak for the protesters, when they themselves have a variety of messages. This article speaks to one particular message... the "99%" message. Bank bailouts are a whole other story. As you know, I'm actually quite with them in that message.
I also like that you completely ignore a salient point in that article - that the person so many of these protesters vilify, the ultra-rich megabucks corporate CEO, is the very guy who moves the economy for their benefit. These protesters turn to the government to tear down the Steve Jobses of the word in favor of what? More of the type of ridiculous vote-pandering legislation that saddled our economy and put picket signs in their hands in the first place.
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I don't, of course, speak for all the protesters. Just as with the Tea Party, there are any variety of opinions, coherent & incoherent, expressed. But there is clearly a reason why the protesters are at Wall Street & not Cupertino & Tanner cynically misrepresents the issues.
Danoff
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arora
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If the economic dive started with unsound banking practice in the mortgage industry, lets look at fanny & freddy who hold a vast majority, who runs them again?
A different take on Dappers 30 year rant. Take all of the 1%'rs money and compare to the national debt. Realize our prosperity from wwII ran out, Japan and Europe where bound to rebuild at some point. Add China and understand global compitition. With business OVER regulated it's easy to see why we have stopped producing goods. ........
A different take on Dappers 30 year rant. Take all of the 1%'rs money and compare to the national debt. Realize our prosperity from wwII ran out, Japan and Europe where bound to rebuild at some point. Add China and understand global compitition. With business OVER regulated it's easy to see why we have stopped producing goods. ........
