NYC Protest - "Occupy Wall Street"

[Sam48]

I love the signs they hold up claiming they are "The 99%" . No, they're actually more like the 5% of liberal democrats that are currently unemployed and have given up searching for a job. And instead of blaming their messiah, who "promised them all jobs", they instead turned against the wealthy bankers whom, might I add, Obama bailed out.

 

[chuyler1]

You apparently have no idea what the 99% means. It has nothing to do with jobs. It has to do with decision making in our government. The 1% (not you, not me, and not the people protesting on our behalf) have the power to change legislation in their favor while 99% (you, me, and the people protesting on our behalf) have no power to prevent it.

Obliterating laws created by the EPA on environmental preservation so gas/oil companies can frack and drill and destroy our land, completely dismantling the FDA so big food companies can push whatever they want down our throats, removing financial safety nets so that wall streeters can bundle and package risky loans and sell them as if they were stable.

So like I said, it has nothing to do with jobs.

 

[Danoff]

You apparently have no idea what the 99% means. It has nothing to do with jobs. It has to do with decision making in our government. The 1% (not you, not me, and not the people protesting on our behalf) have the power to change legislation in their favor while 99% (you, me, and the people protesting on our behalf) have no power to prevent it.

Except... of course... the single most powerful tool anyone has, a vote.

Obliterating laws created by the EPA on environmental preservation so gas/oil companies can frack and drill and destroy our land, completely dismantling the FDA so big food companies can push whatever they want down our throats, removing financial safety nets so that wall streeters can bundle and package risky loans and sell them as if they were stable.

I like the fabrication that without the FDA people can force you to eat something.

This is why regulation is a bad idea. The bigger the government, the more regulations, the more legislation, the more opportunity for corruption. If there is no FDA and someone wants to sell you spoiled meat, you can walk away. If there is an FDA and someone wants to sell you a wonder drug, a competing pharmaceutical company can get it blocked (by greasing the right palms), and you don't get to take the drug no matter how much you might need it.

 

[chuyler1]

You can vote for your elected officials, but you can't vote every time they go to make a decision.

How would you know the meat was spoiled? How do you know the wonder drug is safe, because you saw a commercial about it? The FDA was put in place to research the things the average consumer cannot do on their own...but now it is completely controlled by pharmaceutical companies with conflicting interests and food company executives who also have conflicting interests. We don't elect those people, they are apppointed and recommended and it is outside of our control...because we are the 99%.

 

[Danoff]

You can vote for your elected officials, but you can't vote every time they go to make a decision.

Correct, but it's not like you have no recourse. If you don't like something they voted on, you have the power to help kick them out of office.

How would you know the meat was spoiled? How do you know the wonder drug is safe, because you saw a commercial about it? The FDA was put in place to research the things the average consumer cannot do on their own...

How do you know if that car you're buying is going to fall apart? You read about reliability studies done by private consumer advocate firms.

Also, I'd argue the meat one is easy to do on your own.

but now it is completely controlled by pharmaceutical companies with conflicting interests and food company executives who also have conflicting interests. We don't elect those people, they are apppointed and recommended and it is outside of our control...because we are the 99%.

So how is it better to allow the people you're afraid of selling you spoiled meat to make it illegal to sell you anything else? That's the power of the FDA.

 

[Sam48]

You apparently have no idea what the 99% means. It has nothing to do with jobs. It has to do with decision making in our government. The 1% (not you, not me, and not the people protesting on our behalf) have the power to change legislation in their favor while 99% (you, me, and the people protesting on our behalf) have no power to prevent it.

It's funny you say that because a friend of mine, who happens to be a liberal, told me the "1%" were the people who take in the largest majority of our nation's total income (AKA Wall Street Bankers and what have you). Also, I never stated this had anything to do with jobs. My friend also said nothing about the people in power representing the "1%". It just goes to show how all over the place these protesters are in terms of why they are actually protesting.

 

[chuyler1]

The meat one is not easy to do on your own. The quality is completely dependent on what the animals are fed. Most cows these days are fed corn based meals...you know why? Because the government subsidizes corn. Why does it subsidize corn? Because the big-business farming conglomerates want it that way. They claim the farmer needs help....but today most of it is run by machines.

That's why everything we eat has corn in it, and that's why America is one of the fattest nations. So what? Fat Americans need more health care. So even if you eat healthy (which coincidentally will cost you more), you will still pay for the unhealthly people in the form of insurance premiums. Feeding cows corn also promotes the spread of diseases which did not exist when cows were eating grass.

Correct, but it's not like you have no recourse. If you don't like something they voted on, you have the power to help kick them out of office.

Yup, hence this whole movement. Wall street interests have forced the direction of our government for too long. It's time the elected officials stop listening to lobbyists and start listening to their constituents.

 

[chuyler1]

Alright, maybe I'm getting us a bit off topic. Let's get back to wall street. I can't really see how middle classed people are opposed to this movement. Maybe its political brainwashing or something but the numbers don't lie.

If you work for a living, as in receive payment for services, you are taxed at a certain rate. If you don't work for a living, but instead live off dividends of investments, you are taxed significantly less. In fact, the savings someone making $2M a year off investments gets is probably worth more than your take home pay.

Are you seriously OK with that? Are you seriously OK with the fact that the middle class (those making more than $20K but less than $200K) pay taxes for everyone else while the rich get a discount and the poor get a discount?

I just don't get it. The movement IS about fair taxation but the opponents are trying to convince you otherwise.

Reference: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-buffett-says-super-rich-pay-lower-taxes-oth/

 

[Danoff]

The meat one is not easy to do on your own. The quality is completely dependent on what the animals are fed. Most cows these days are fed corn based meals...you know why? Because the government subsidizes corn. Why does it subsidize corn? Because the big-business farming conglomerates want it that way. They claim the farmer needs help....but today most of it is run by machines.

You're preaching to the choir. I'd love to end farm subsidies tomorrow.

That's why everything we eat has corn in it, and that's why America is one of the fattest nations. So what? Fat Americans need more health care. So even if you eat healthy (which coincidentally will cost you more), you will still pay for the unhealthly people in the form of insurance premiums.

Actually pretty sure you've got it backward. The guy who has a heart attack at age 50 costs way less in healthcare than the person who hangs on between ages 90 and 105. If I remember correctly, life expectancy has dipped a bit in America recently (most likely due to nutrition and exercise). The result? Healthcare savings. The longer you live the more you cost.

Carousel?

 

[Joey D]

Yup, hence this whole movement. Wall street interests have forced the direction of our government for too long. It's time the elected officials stop listening to lobbyists and start listening to their constituents.

Novel concept eh? This is exactly why I support the movement. The government should be by the people, for the people. Not by the lobbies, for the people.

Alright, maybe I'm getting us a bit off topic. Let's get back to wall street. I can't really see how middle classed people are opposed to this movement. Maybe its political brainwashing or something but the numbers don't lie.

If you work for a living, as in receive payment for services, you are taxed at a certain rate. If you don't work for a living, but instead live off dividends of investments, you are taxed significantly less. In fact, the savings someone making $2M a year off investments gets is probably worth more than your take home pay.

Are you seriously OK with that? Are you seriously OK with the fact that the middle class (those making more than $20K but less than $200K) pay taxes for everyone else while the rich get a discount and the poor get a discount?

I just don't get it. The movement IS about fair taxation but the opponents are trying to convince you otherwise.

Reference: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-buffett-says-super-rich-pay-lower-taxes-oth/

I agree with this too, the middle class tends to get shafted most of the time since we make too much money to receive any federal aid and we don't make enough to be able to not worry about anything.

I fully support the idea of fair taxation, there should be a set percentage for everyone to pay. Say it's 20% of your total income for the year, that way everyone is contributing their share.

 

[Danoff]

Alright, maybe I'm getting us a bit off topic. Let's get back to wall street. I can't really see how middle classed people are opposed to this movement. Maybe its political brainwashing or something but the numbers don't lie.

If you work for a living, as in receive payment for services, you are taxed at a certain rate. If you don't work for a living, but instead live off dividends of investments, you are taxed significantly less. In fact, the savings someone making $2M a year off investments gets is probably worth more than your take home pay.


Are you seriously OK with that?

Yup. Capital gains actually shouldn't be taxed at all, it's not really income. Let's say you buy a baseball card, which eventually becomes worthless and you throw it away. Do you get a tax break? No. Now let's say you buy a baseball card that eventually becomes worth a million dollars. Do you think you owe the government tax on that appreciation? Is it income? If you bought a prius a while back you could have sold it for more than you bought it for. Income? Do you need to pay tax on that? What percentage should you pay? I say zero. The government says 15%. You say, above, more like 30%.

Also keep in mind that taxes on capital gains are effectively barriers to investing in business/economic growth. I'd think, especially now, we'd want to eliminate all of the barriers we can in that regard. Taxing capital gains like income will put people out of work and hamper economic growth.

Are you seriously OK with the fact that the middle class (those making more than $20K but less than $200K) pay taxes for everyone else while the rich get a discount and the poor get a discount?

That's actually not even remotely true. The top 1% pay way more than 1% of the taxes. It's more like 40% (40 times their share, the guy who makes 20k per year doesn't even pay 1x his share). Someone who makes a million dollars investing still pays more in taxes than someone who makes $200k at the office.

You want to flatten the tax rate across all income earners from any type of monetary gain (inheritance, dividends, capital gains, services etc.)? A flat sales tax does that nicely and it's something I've long been wishing we could move to.

 

[Dapper]

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

 

[Tornado]

It was a lovely list until #5, and it only got worse from there.

 

[Pupik]

It was a lovely list until #5, and it only got worse from there.

I agree with number 20, though.

And the logo's shield ought to be a US Route shield, not just one that evokes the State of Washington.

 

[NLxAROSA]

That's actually not even remotely true. The top 1% pay way more than 1% of the taxes. It's more like 40% (40 times their share, the guy who makes 20k per year doesn't even pay 1x his share). Someone who makes a million dollars investing still pays more in taxes than someone who makes $200k at the office.

Especially true over here in The Netherlands, with a progressive income tax rate system. Over here 70% of all collected income tax is paid by 10% of the people paying income tax. Numbers are a bit different when national premiums are included, but even with those it's 48% of all collected income tax/premiums is paid by 10% of people paying income tax and premiums.

 

[Joey D]

I pretty much agree with that list, except #11 since I don't support the Dream Act. Much of it seems like wishful thinking though.

 

[Danoff]

Only #4, #8, and #20 make any sense. Number #12 shoots itself in the foot. Pretty much everything else is either unconstitutional, a terrible idea, or both.

 

[Dapper]

I like the idea of a new political party that will be started if all those inumerated changes don't happen, and I think it is obvious the corrupt old geezers in office now will never allow most of those things.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This is just funny, now we see who supports what political mindset. Really the political divides need to be given up. There are several good ideas in that but also a number of bad ideas as well.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Hippies confuse rule of law, with rules of a 'capitalist regime'; arrested by Melbourne police.

Go rozzers! 👍

 

[Dennisch]

Yeah Baby.

 

[Dapper]

How do republicans plan on creating jobs?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...ing-EPA-regulation-GOP-Republicans/50611212/1

Simple, make the air so toxic that health care related jobs sky rocket! Man those republicans are just smart.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I guess the media has swept this thread...not all those protesting are hippies. Though from Fox news you'd think the tree hugger 2011 Woodstock concert was coming

 

[Dapper]

I guess the media has swept this thread...not all those protesting are hippies. Though from Fox news you'd think the tree hugger 2011 Woodstock concert was coming

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-boykin/occupy-wall-street-media_b_1019707.html?ir=New+York

Also keep in mind that taxes on capital gains are effectively barriers to investing in business/economic growth.

That would be true if trickle down economics works, but that is a proven myth.

 

[Tornado]

Simple, make the air so toxic that health care related jobs sky rocket! Man those republicans are just smart.

Are you able to debate anything without resorting to comical levels of hyperbole to back up your ideals?

 

[sumbrownkid]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-boykin/occupy-wall-street-media_b_1019707.html?ir=New+York


That would be true if trickle down economics works, but that is a proven myth.

Perhaps mankind's biggest myth following Santa Claus...

 

[arora]

I'll throw in the SBA reporting regulatory costs for the nation to be 1.75 trillion a year
:shock:

 

[AMCNUT]

I think some folks crossed over (or tried, at least - last I heard we had the good sense to stop them at the border) to try and drum up some support for the same thing in Toronto. I think it was supposed to go down last weekend, but I never heard much about it so maybe they didn't get a good turnout and will go away. 💡 Sounds like it's going to be a recurring demonstration like down in New York, though.

It was painful to mind my p's and q's whilst listening to a bunch of my classmates say how 'cool' it was to have a go at the hand that feeds them - there has to be a less 🤬-ish way for these people to express their viewpoints - I can't see these protests in Toronto or New York or anywhere accomplishing anything of note, other than annoying people who have to maneuver around them.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

I am all for the Occupy Wall Street protests. Remember, the media will always go out of their way to find and interview the most uninformed, wacky people they pull out of the crowd.

And if recent history is any indication, Occupy Wall Street will be infiltrated by Democratic operatives and co-opted to be used as a political tool, just as the original Tea Party was co-opted by right-wing corporate interests and used to win back Congress at the benefit of those corporations.

 

[Joey D]

How do republicans plan on creating jobs?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...ing-EPA-regulation-GOP-Republicans/50611212/1

Simple, make the air so toxic that health care related jobs sky rocket! Man those republicans are just smart.

I'm actually more curious why they keep blocking job proposals that are being brought up. I know the Democrats and Republicans hate each other, but I just wish they'd stop their pissing contest long enough to run the country.