Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

How would you vote in the 2008 US Presidential Election?

  • Obama-Biden (Democrat)

    Votes: 67 59.3%

  • McCain-Palin (Republican)

    Votes: 18 15.9%

  • Barr-Root (Libertarian)

    Votes: 14 12.4%

  • Nader-Gonzales (Independent-Ecology Party / Peace and Freedom Party)

    Votes: 5 4.4%

  • McKinney-Clemente (Green)

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Baldwin-Castle (Constitution)

    Votes: 7 6.2%

  • Gurney-? (Car & Driver)

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
FoolKiller
Um, when quoting sources, make sure that they don't come from the opinion page, as the Anchorage Daily News link is. I mean, that would be like a Republican quoting Rush Limbaugh as a source.

And while I wouldn't have said this a month ago, I am beginning to trust ABC less and less. This article seems to have only talked to Senator French and not asked the McCain campaign or even Governor Palin's staff for a response. They don't even say they tried and were refused. Why only one side of the story? It is either bad journalism, or somebody is taking sides.

And don't even get me started on the stuff I have seen Good Morning America do.


Hmm, that bordered on a rant. I didn't mean it to seem that way. I just get worked up when I see bad journalism.
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ABC was always crap. I noticed that MSNBC suddenly got a lot better after McCain was formally nominated.
 
YSSMAN
One problem with the press speaking to Senator McCain and Gov. Palin:

...They aren't talking to the media...

After a grilling that one of McCain's representatives received on CNN over Palin's experience, McCain canceled his appearance on Larry King for later that night. The day after, all of the speakers demonized the press as a group hell-bent on destroying the reputation of he and Palin (despite the fact McCain has always had a warm relationship with the media), but in reality, they were asking otherwise reasonable questions about her and her policies. When you bring someone into the fray who has otherwise been isolated in Alaska, one that otherwise is without a track-record or much of a name for anything that shes done, obviously people are going to start asking questions.

Its the same problem we see in every election cycle, that one news group is kissing their ass too hard, and another is throwing too many punches below the belt. Perhaps it would be best to just be spoon-fed soundbites and press releases, but at least in my opinion, it would be better to have the press ask hard questions when these people are going to be leading our country for the next four years. The issue here is that the McCain camp needs to separate for themselves those who are in the press (Fox News, The Washington Post, Politico etc) and those in the blogosphere (Daily Kos, The Drudge Report, etc) and they will see that its the 'Wild West' of the blog world that has been stirring the "s-pot" via the internet, not the "mainstream media."
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Was that in response to my comment regarding the ABC article? If so, he doesn't say the campaign refused comment, which is standard practice in journalism, especially if you are an "investigative journalist." Also, his next article linked at the end of this one is all about how the lobbyists were partying it up with the politicians at the RNC and how they made it clear to the Republicans that it is all about big business. Then in the middle of that story you will find this one line:
They put up about the same for the Democrats in Denver.
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A two (Internet) page article and that is how you balance it? Shouldn't the article have really been about the lobbyists at the conventions in general? The guy isn't investigating, he is slinging mud. I've seen Sean Hannity be more balanced, and his job is to be one-sided.


If that wasn't in response to me then just consider me on another media rant.
 
FoolKiller
Was that in response to my comment regarding the ABC article?... If that wasn't in response to me then just consider me on another media rant.
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I suppose I was on a bit of a media rant as well. I'm sick of how juvenile the McCain campaign is acting over the issue, that's what it essentially boils down to.

Hey! Dan Rather has something to say about the media...

 
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:lol:
Hearing Dan Rather speak about honesty and integrity in the media (for the sake of fueling democracy :rolleyes: ) is like listening to Lawrence Taylor talk about the importance of saying no to drugs.

Btw, I've enjoyed the last few pages of this thread. 👍
Also, I'm glad to see there's no poll attached. 👍
 
Solid Fro
The Digg logos put the icing on the cake.
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No love for social news websites? Oh, I forgot, the users post too many anti-GOP stories that make it to the front page. Shame on them for having an opinion and digging up stories they think to be relevant. If anything, Digg is worth a case-study when it comes to the sharing of information during a campaign season. The Ron Paul folks used it well during the GOP Primary, as did the Democrats back in the Hillary v Obama days.

Good times. Good times indeed...
 
Maybe Digg should try some factual information for their Political News section. Posts from Daily Kos and HuffPo are clearly laughable.

Facts never stopped Dan Rather, did it?
 
...Didn't stop George W. Bush either...

Badum-tish!

===

One of the major problems for the GOP over the past few years has been the increasingly large movement of their voter base to the middle, and for that matter, to the left. David Frum (a member of the conservative American Enterprise Institue) had an interesting piece in the New York Times Magazine this weekend called "The Vanishing Republican Voter," which takes an interesting look at the problem. Its worth a read, if you're interested in the methods of an election.
 
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YSSMAN
...Didn't stop George W. Bush either...

Badum-tish!

===

One of the major problems for the GOP over the past few years has been the increasingly large movement of their voter base to the middle, and for that matter, to the left. David Frum (a member of the conservative American Enterprise Institue) had an interesting piece in the New York Times Magazine this weekend called "The Vanishing Republican Voter," which takes an interesting look at the problem. Its worth a read, if you're interested in the methods of an election.
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David Frum is talking about conservatism? Lol.
 
YSSMAN
One of the major problems for the GOP over the past few years has been the increasingly large movement of their voter base to the middle, and for that matter, to the left. David Frum (a member of the conservative American Enterprise Institue) had an interesting piece in the New York Times Magazine this weekend called "The Vanishing Republican Voter," which takes an interesting look at the problem. Its worth a read, if you're interested in the methods of an election.
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Wow, he wrote a four-page article that can be summed up in a few sentences: Republicans support equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. More people feel they are entitled to equality of outcome and Republicans need to betray their principles to win them back.

There, summed up for those who can't be bothered to read all four pages. If he thinks that then he should not be part of any conservative group.

And if he honestly thinks that saying pandering to the voters is the way to go then he should quit writing articles.



On another note: polls this morning show McCain leading. I take polls with a grain of salt, but it is the first time that has happened so far.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...in-latest-US-presidential-election-polls.html
 
The polls had a surprising jump, which caused a good level of discussion in my elections class this morning. My professor noted that while he was sure that Palin would have added a much-needed shot of adrenaline into the McCain campaign, he had anticipated maybe a 5% bump in his position, but not the 10%+ that some of the polls were reporting. I shared a similar prediction as well, and as such, I was proven wrong. The issue of course is that these are all national polls, which means jack come November 4, as it is a state-by-state issue... An area where Obama had a marginal lead, but it has otherwise been a draw in other places.

Real Clear Politics has a great page that posts all of the big ones, and averages out the results. By their calculations, McCain has a 2.3% lead on Obama nationally, hardly a gap that would be preferential with two months of campaigning and three debates ahead. It should keep things interesting, and this being the first week of the last eight, you can bet that it should all be entertaining at the very least.
 
YSSMAN
The issue of course is that these are all national polls, which means jack come November 4, as it is a state-by-state issue...
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All polls are at risk of being incorrect. The population is too large to get a proper sample.

If we recall the last two elections all the polls were wrong. Heck, even exit polling was wrong in 2004.
 
Exit polls also did a major fail during the primaries for both parties as well. The issue this year is going to be who comes out to vote, and what tendencies show up while voters are in the voting booths. We saw the issue rear its head in New Hampshire, voters saying they'd vote for Obama both in preliminary and exit polls, but in reality a healthy percentage of them ended up voting for Hillary. Here in Michigan, the vote will likely be decided by how large the minority vote will be, and to that end, how many Republicans can show up on my side of the state. To some extent, they tend to offset each other, which is why we've never seen Obama break out of a 5% lead.

I'm still hoping for an increased youth voter turnout, but we all know not to get our hopes up.
 
Semi-related to the election. Matt Damon should probably take notes.

From Kid Rock earlier this month.
Kid Rock
"I truly believe that people like myself, who are in a position of entertainers in the limelight, should keep their mouth shut on politics," he noted. "Because at the end of the day, let me tell you what I 'm good at: I'm good at writing songs and singing. What I'm not educated in is the field of political science. And so for me to be sharing my views and influencing people of who I think they should be voting for ... I think would be very irresponsible on my part. So I'll just keep my mouth shut on that."
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They had him on a local radio station a week or so ago talking about that. While I'm not a huge fan of Kid Rock (although I can only say good things about what he's done for our local community) I agree with him totally. I don't care who celebrities are voting for and I don't think they should be trying to influence others. Ultimately it is your choice who you cast your vote for and people need to learn to think for themselves. Spend about 20 minutes researching the candidates and what they stand for an go with who you feel is the best choice, whether that choice is Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or some other party. Hell I wouldn't even cared if you voted for the Communist party, as long as it goes with your ideals I can't tell you that you are wrong.
 
Solid Fro
I got the link... ESPN did a story on her. Looks like she has a 240SX.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/e60/news/story?id=3571491

Still totally epic.
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Nice read, she should show that side in public more.



And I like how they mention the Wii and Tanner Foust within a sentence of each other, even though Foust did a promotional video for GT5P on the PS Store a few weeks back. But that has nothing to do with the election, just a side note.
 
Sureshot
Joey, out of interest, what are you referring to:
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Kid Rock is from our area and lives here as well. He has locally built a very nice waterpark and donated money to many local charities. He also continues to offer the most reasonably priced concerts out of just about any big name stars in the area as well. I can go see him for $20. I know he makes appearances at local schools from time to time talking about whatever it is he talks about. He loves this community and he tries to show it.
 
The only issue I have with people being upset over celebrities voicing their opinion over politics is that they are just as entitled to have an opinion as we are. Now, if they choose to make a big deal over it by using their celebrity to get a message out, that's their own deal. The problem here is that the AP asked Mr. Damon what he thought, and to that end, he echos a concern that a lot of Americans have over Gov. Palin. There is no crime in stating one's opinion, especially when he or she is asked. If this is the case, someone better the the nutjob from Big & Rich to "CAN IT!" because of that new McCain song...

If you don't like it, turn it off, or do what I do... Just don't listen.
 
YSSMAN
The only issue I have with people being upset over celebrities voicing their opinion over politics is that they are just as entitled to have an opinion as we are. Now, if they choose to make a big deal over it by using their celebrity to get a message out, that's their own deal. The problem here is that the AP asked Mr. Damon what he thought, and to that end, he echos a concern that a lot of Americans have over Gov. Palin. There is no crime in stating one's opinion, especially when he or she is asked. If this is the case, someone better the the nutjob from Big & Rich to "CAN IT!" because of that new McCain song...

If you don't like it, turn it off, or do what I do... Just don't listen.
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What? He didn't echo any concern. All he did was say, "I don't like Palin". The problem then became when asked why, and all he could say was that he just didn't like her. He could barely think of a reason.
 
I think the question is why did the AP ask him? Was it a burning question on people's minds, or is it because he has been outspoken politically in the past? I mean, they do get in their little Film Actor's Guild groups and voice their opinions. Ben Affleck goes on Bill Maher all the time.

But I agree, if someone asks him a question and he answers that is one thing. But when they do like Rosie O'Donnell and use their hosting job as a soap box then it becomes an issue.


Out of curiosity: Why is it if a guy speaks out for McCain he is a nutjob, but Damon saying Palin as president is like a Disney movie is perfectly fine? Because they wrote a song? I would like to direct you to the Vietnam Era section of the music department. Or random modern musicians as well.

It is both sides, and acting like one is fine and the other is a nutjob is a little two-faced.

Personally, I wish entertainers would do what I pay them to do: entertain and shut up. If I wanted political opinion I would turn on a cable news channel after 7:00 PM or talk radio.
 
Interesting article today from Howard Fineman about Obama's mistakes.
WASHINGTON - No, Barack Obama was not making fun of Sarah Palin when he talked about some Republican putting “lipstick on a pig.”

He was trying to be colloquial, and John McCain’s campaign knew as much – even as it was going theatrically ballistic.

That’s not to say that Obama hasn’t made mistakes. In fact, he’s made – and is making – a lot.
Story continues below ↓advertisement

For two years, Obama played the golf course of presidential politics with the ice-cold self-assuredness of a Tiger Woods. But since securing the Democratic nomination, he’s made a series of strategic errors that could jeopardize his chances in November.

After traveling with him on the trail, watching him in Denver and talking to Democratic operatives and insiders, here’s my list of his errant shots:

Declining to take federal financing for the general election
This mistake is two-pronged. Obama stands accused of flip-flopping on the matter, saying in 2007 that he’d accept those funds and the cash limits that come along with it. In relying solely on private money, Obama appears to have ceded some higher ground to McCain, who, with his public funding, appears slightly more immune to interest groups. On a more practical level, Obama will have to leave the campaign trail more often to headline fundraising events. He’ll likely spend more time than he should in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles and less than he needs in Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Detroit.

Declining McCain’s offer to hold ten town hall debates
When Obama was leading the race in leaps and bounds, he blew off this GOP proposal. Too bad. Had Obama locked in that deal, he would now be able to confront McCain face-to-face about some of the Republicans’ more aggressive – if not to say cynically manipulative – recent television advertising claims. An Obama-McCain series would also have drawn attention away from Gov. Palin, the autumn cover girl.

Failing to go all the way with the Clintons
Yes, I know, Bill and Hillary got prime speaking roles in Denver. And yes, I know, the Clintons are difficult to deal with and probably hope Obama fails. Still, it’s Obama’s task to latch on to them, even against their will. But he was too proud. Although he’s going to see the former president this week, Obama should have broken bread with Bill months ago. Obama needs the Clintons to defend and work for him. They are not eager to do so, but it was still Obama’s task to trap them into displays of political enthusiasm. It’s just my guess, but I think Mr. Clinton would have been open to the wooing – if for no other reason than to recapture his reputation as an avatar of the civil rights cause. Obama also neglected to court Clinton fundraisers and supporters in places like Los Angeles. All they want from Obama is a phone call. They would swoon.

The 22-state strategy
For months, the Obama campaign invested advertising time and organizing money in an impressive array of red states that haven’t been on the Democrats’ radar in recent elections. This made for great press clippings. But, for the most part, it was a waste of assets. Except for perhaps Virginia, most out-of-the-way states do not seem likely to end up in Obama’s fold. He’d be more successful focusing on traditional battlegrounds.

Failing to state a sweeping, but concrete, policy idea
It is not enough to be for change – everybody is, or is trying to be. To make it stick, Obama needed, and needs, to put forth an easy-to-grasp grand proposal, one that would encapsulate what his central message. That tagline? That he is dedicated, body and soul, to advancing the economic interests of hard-working, average Americans. He has the makings of such a proposal – his tax cuts for low and middle-income families. But he has yet to package that, or anything else, in an easy-to-grasp, hard-number plan for voters. Instead, he’s got more of a laundry list than an actual rallying cry.

Remaining trapped in professor-observer speak
When you listen to Obama, it sometimes feels like you’re hearing a smart but distant analysis of the political scene. He sounds like a writer or teacher, but not the leader of a political crusade. Obama has been far too “meta” – a detached commentator on his own situation and his own country. Voters want an action plan, not an exegesis.

Failing to attack McCain early
Obama was wary of attacking a man who had suffered so much during the Vietnam War – an understandable emotion. But that wariness, combined with Obama’s natural inclination to be seen as the nice guy (one who lets others do the knifing) lead to an unfortunate result. It gave two free months for McCain to build up a head of steam as a war hero, as opposed to what Obama needed to paint him as publically: a man beholden to corporate interests and a likely clone of George W. Bush.

Does all of this mean that Obama is somehow doomed? Of course not. He is a quick study and a fast learner, and the team of McCain and Palin is capable of making their own set of mistakes.

But if I were an Obama partisan I would be worried that his mistakes have a common thread - pride.

Obama seems to want to do things on his own, and on his own terms. It’s understandable. Obama has his own crowd – from Chicago, from Harvard, and from a new cadre of wealthy, Ivy-educated movers and shakers.

“He’s an arrogant S.O.B.,” one of the latter told me today. “He wants to do it his way, and his way alone.” But politics doesn’t work that way. And has Obama should know, or is about to find out, that everyone needs a little help.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26640489/
 
FoolKiller
Out of curiosity: Why is it if a guy speaks out for McCain he is a nutjob, but Damon saying Palin as president is like a Disney movie is perfectly fine? Because they wrote a song? I would like to direct you to the Vietnam Era section of the music department. Or random modern musicians as well.
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That was not my intent of that statement. I was referring to the point that if Matt Damon, or Will.i.Am or "insert celebrity here" can't voice their opinion via music, news, television or radio interview, etc. then the same view should be applied to those who are on both sides of the battle.

Fair is fair, in my opinion. If celebrities can't voice their views in opposition to the Republicans, certainly, celebrities shouldn't be able to voice their opinions in opposition to the Democrats either.

Which reminds me: Bruce Willis and Adam Sandler (both notable conservative-leaning actors) have been awfully quiet this election season...
 
YSSMAN
That was not my intent of that statement. I was referring to the point that if Matt Damon, or Will.i.Am or "insert celebrity here" can't voice their opinion via music, news, television or radio interview, etc. then the same view should be applied to those who are on both sides of the battle.
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Yeah, I get that part. In fact, I said that I agree. My issue is that you placed a derogatory adjective (nutjob) on the celebrity that didn't support your stance after defending Damon.

If you don't see the two-sided attitude you took, then maybe that is the problem.

Fair is fair, in my opinion. If celebrities can't voice their views in opposition to the Republicans, certainly, celebrities shouldn't be able to voice their opinions in opposition to the Democrats either.
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For the record, I don't think there should be some rule saying whether they can or can't, I just wish they would all shut up. And yes, that even applies to the likes of Chuck Norris.
 

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