Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[Danoff]

Banks became worried about their subprime mortgages and began to raise adjustable rates, which forced many homeowners into foreclosure, and everything went to hell.

Uh... not exactly.

 

[Omnis]

...due to mismanagement by lenders and banks

... due to the Federal Reserve's artificially low interest rates.

... due to and compounded by government's irresponsibility in finance and market interference.

 

[Solid Fro]

Newt Gingrich.



What? No smart ass reply by Olbermann? At least call him the worst person in the world, right?

 

[Omnis]

Newt Gingrich.



What? No smart ass reply by Olbermann? At least call him the worst person in the world, right?

People are trying to jump on Palin when they should be on McCain. I wish Palin was the presidential candidate, actually.

 

[YSSMAN]

People are trying to jump on Palin when they should be on McCain. I wish Palin was the presidential candidate, actually.

The way the GOP has been talking, it sounds like shes more qualified than McCain. Whoops!

 

[91hondawagon]

Uh... not exactly.

Then please, tell me why you think I'm wrong. I'll most likely disagree with you, but I want to know why you disagree with me .

 

[Omnis]

Then please, tell me why you think I'm wrong. I'll most likely disagree with you, but I want to know why you disagree with me .

Prepare yourself.

 

[Solid Fro]

So red, it's still moo-ing:

"I'm not a Republican because I grew up rich, but because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life poor, waiting for the government to rescue me."

Did we just see the first woman president of the United States yesterday night?

 

[Touring Mars]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Eric, but you both have a point. Although I accept that borrowers should be responsible and only borrow what they can reasonably afford to pay back, the banks have (until now) been more than happy to hand people enough rope to hang themselves. The banks have taken a big hit (massive write-offs and drops in profits) for it, but they will survive...

The thing that irks me is that the banks and mortgage providers allowed alot of people to spectacularly over-stretch themselves and now everyone is paying for it. I have no sympathy for people who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford and now whine about the fact that the bank has repossessed "their" house. But now, as a result of the banks over-exuberance in lending to those who couldn't afford it, those of us who could have afforded it now find that these products/offers no longer exist... For example, here in the UK, a few years ago 100% mortgages for first-time buyers were common. Now, 90% is the absolute max. So, without doing anything wrong, financially responsible people are paying a considerable price (i.e. are priced out of the market for years) because of the banks pandering to the greed of the financially irresponsible. Banks surely must shoulder much of the blame for not being selective enough about who they were lending to... luckily, it seems the banks are learning what should have been obvious from the outset - that lending huge sums to people with no realistic prospect of paying back, is sheer stupidity.

Did we just see the first woman president of the United States yesterday night?

This is what is pretty amazing to me - that she is arguably more likely that most VP's to inherit the job, if McCain croaks before 2013... I'm not saying that she would not be as good as any other potential VP, but I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering how such a figure, with a somewhat unspectacular CV, could now easily attain the position of the world's most powerful person.

Oh, and Happy Birthday

 

[Danoff]

Banks became worried about their subprime mortgages and began to raise adjustable rates, which forced many homeowners into foreclosure, and everything went to hell.

The banks didn't raise rates because of worries. The Fed raised rates because the dollar was/is weak and was trying to prevent further erosion. Rates had been low for a long time because the GOVERNMENT was trying to spur too much growth in the housing market. Low rates led to a collapse in the dollar, which lead to higher rates, which lead to foreclosures.

The only entity that suddenly got worried about their practices over the last few years was the federal reserve, and they had good reason to be concerned.

So, without doing anything wrong, financially responsible people are paying a considerable price (i.e. are priced out of the market for years) because of the banks pandering to the greed of the financially irresponsible. Banks surely must shoulder much of the blame for not being selective enough about who they were lending to...

...only if you think you're entitled to a 100% loan to "buy" yourself a house. Banks are free to lend money to whomever they choose - on whatever terms they choose, and we're free to deposit our money in a different bank if we don't like their lending practices. You say some are being punished by having to fork over 10% to get a loan, but that's what you say should have happened all a long - so I'm not sure how that's a punishment.

If you needed a 100% loan to buy a house, you can't afford the house. It's fine if a bank wants to take a chance on you, but I don't see how they should be blamed if suddenly they decide that they should pull back and only offer a 99% loan... or 98%... or 50% or whatever it is that they want to require.

 

[YSSMAN]

Did we just see the first woman president of the United States yesterday night?

It depends on if she gives McCain the ol' "Banana Peel" or not...

 

[FoolKiller]

OK, so I just watched the Sarah Palin speech from last night.

She has a great personality and she can definitely deliver a speech. Too bad she had to use the speech to introduce herself to the country. It was quite short on details and policy. Although, I saw a rumor that her TelePrompter went out and half the speech was delivered by memory. If true that makes it even more impressive, especially compared to Obama's one stumble and stutter when his went out a few months back, even stopping to blame the TelePrompter for throwing him off.


All that said, she has some background issues that need to be addressed. First, is the current case regarding her (ex?) brother-in-law being fired. Second, is the talk of her looking into book banning while mayor. Even if she didn't push it after the initial question, that needs to be explained. It shouldn't have ever come up. And finally, it seems like her canceling the "Bridge to Nowhere" project had more to do with not getting the funding than saying it was unnecessary.


I do have to say that I find it odd how the media has been handling her speech. From multiple pundits, including on Fox News (no favoritism regarding this there), I have heard, "But she didn't write the speech," or ,"It was written by President Bush's speech writer." Gee, in politics? NOOOOO!!!! It was almost like the media could not accept that more than one person in this campaign can deliver a well-worded and delivered speech.

But, like I said about Obama, if there weren't actual issues that I was concerned about she could convince me that I should vote for her. I even saw a former Clinton adviser say that he disagreed with her policies, but her presence and delivery is incredible. He admitted he couldn't find a negative.


The biggest issue I have with her is her stance on same-sex marriages, or even benefits. It is one thing to be opposed to same-sex marriage, I understand how some people have trouble accepting that. I don't agree, but I understand. But she is even opposed to benefits. That is too much to me.

On a similar note though, I love this statement:

Q: Will you support an effort to expand hate-crime laws?
A: No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate.

Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul 31, 2006

I don't know that it is all based on hate, but hate crime laws are just adding to government spending. Murder is murder, it doesn't matter if it was for prejudice or just a psychotic episode. So, we agree here.

She and I disagree on legalized gambling (she opposes).


Anyway, good choice for McCain, but not going to win me over.

 

[Tornado]

Just a small unrelated tidbit I thought of while watching the news yesterday:
I think Michelle Obama should stop talking before she pisses off everyone who was a swing vote.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Newt Gingrich.



What? No smart ass reply by Olbermann? At least call him the worst person in the world, right?

Awesome!

(I left a YT comment)

 

[FoolKiller]

Oh gee, looks like there is a chance of protests tonight getting ugly.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/04/protesters-try-to-make-most-of-republican-convention/

I hope no one goes too far. We don't need a 1968 type scenario.
This kind of sums up the plans:

The stage was set for a showdown after a coalition of protesters told reporters a day earlier that they are ready to violate the expiration of their permit — now limited to a rally at the state Capitol between 5-6 p.m. ET Thursday — and march to the Xcel Energy Center, site of the GOP convention.

Although, I do have to comment on a couple of quotes:

Tracy Molm, a member of Students for a Democratic Society at the University of Minnesota, urged students to get involved in protests scheduled on the last day of the conventions.

“Students in this country are angry. We’re angry because it’s us that are asked to fight and die in this immoral and unjust war,” Molm said Wednesday.

She does realize that if she is being sent to war it is because she volunteered to join the military, right? No one got drafted.

“Bring that anger to the streets, because that is how social change in this country happens.”

Wait, I thought the term was peaceably assemble. Not violating assembly permits, clogging the streets, and generally creating havoc.

And then there is this:

Activists have taken to the streets of St. Paul throughout the week to declare the Republican ticket a continuation of the Bush administration.

Chanting lines like, “Sarah Palin, we know what you stand for, you’ll save a fetus in the womb and send it off to war,” CodePink has charged the Alaska governor with hypocrisy for opposing abortion while supporting a continued U.S. combat presence in Iraq.

Yeah, because pro-lifers are just looking to keep the military populated in 18 years. That's it. And aborted babies volunteered to.

I don't care what your stance is on either issue, they are completely unrelated and years (18 to be exact) apart.

 

[Omnis]

Leave it to Fox and any other media outlet to cherry pick the idiots from the crowd. They tend to stand out. It only takes a few idiots for the police to start attacking everybody.

If you've ever been to these protests, there is seldom, if any violence at all. Lots of people are pissed off, but 99% are civil and mature enough to not become that which they are protesting against.

Btw, what the hell is an assembly permit? I really hope it's issued by an owner of private property.

 

[FoolKiller]

Leave it to Fox and any other media outlet to cherry pick the idiots from the crowd. They tend to stand out. It only takes a few idiots for the police to start attacking everybody.

If you've ever been to these protests, there is seldom, if any violence at all. Lots of people are pissed off, but 99% are civil and mature enough to not become that which they are protesting against.

Really the only one that I thought was possibly cherry picked was the student group member. The Code Pink folks are trying hard to get up front with it. I mean, they even had members try to rush the stage last night.

But yeah, I agree that sensibility has to be used on both sides.
CNN has a report that makes it sound like it was all police acting up.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/02/rnc.security/

This one makes it sound like it was a small group of protesters that started the whole thing.
http://www.wbaltv.com/politics/17375360/detail.html

Btw, what the hell is an assembly permit? I really hope it's issued by an owner of private property.

I think the actual term is permit to protest and it various from city to city as to whether you need one.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2075225_get-permit-protest.html

The main goal is to allow you to peaceably assemble without risk of disturbing the peace. You have explained what you are doing, where you intend to do it, and what the city can do to help keep it peaceful. It allows the city to close streets, if needed, and have police on hand.

To my knowledge the few permits that have been denied by the city have been granted with a court challenge.

It can be good or bad. In some cases you have police there that helps protect your group, and you have any street closures you need setup. I imagine your permit also comes with a list of what not to do in order to avoid breaking the law.

On the other hand, if you are about to tick off a city official they will have edgy cops there that are more interested in watching what you are doing and eager to stop you if you even look like you may do something to disturb the peace. And any fenced off area acts more like a cage than a protective barrier against counter-protesters.

If I had to guess I would say it's main intent was to be an official way to notify the city and have the city provide resources to maintain safety. But as is often the case with governments, it gets abused. I know of at least a couple of instances where cities tried to use it to stop a KKK protest. And I know a few other controversial issues were disputed, but can't remember the details.

 

[Solid Fro]

Campaign over!

Cindy McCain owns a drift team.

Epic total win.

 

[YSSMAN]

Wait, I thought the term was peaceably assemble. Not violating assembly permits, clogging the streets, and generally creating havoc.

I believe it was Jefferson who said that its good to "have a little revolution" now and then.

I don't support the cherry pickers, but like Omnis pointed out, most of these protests are going to pretty civil.

...except when they barge in during McCain speaking...

Ooops!

 

[91hondawagon]

Tracy Molm, a member of Students for a Democratic Society at the University of Minnesota, urged students to get involved in protests scheduled on the last day of the conventions.

“Students in this country are angry. We’re angry because it’s us that are asked to fight and die in this immoral and unjust war,” Molm said Wednesday.

She does realize that if she is being sent to war it is because she volunteered to join the military, right? No one got drafted.

I find it difficult to take any organization deliberately named after a radical militant group seriously.

Apparently, she doesn't. It's too bad that protests like this are going on. I understand protests of policy and whatnot, but a protest like this - of a policy that doesn't actually exist - is ridiculous.

Both Democrats and Republicans voted overwhelmingly for both the Iraqi and Afghan invasions. At that time, Democrats voted with Republicans to send our troops to "fight and die" (). Why weren't these protesters at the DNC... ?

 

[Solid Fro]

Why weren't these protesters at the DNC... ?

Uhhh, they were. This is where the term "recreate '68" comes from. To recreate the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Obviously, the social retards failed to recreate anything.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/zombie/

I thought the end of McCain's speech was very good. The middle was a bit boring, but it was exactly what the pundits wanted... a 10-point policy speech.





Oh, so hawt:

 

[FoolKiller]

Oh, so hawt:

What is that? Some kind of Air Force flight training simulator?

For a second I thought it was a video game setup, but it is way too complex. But that would have been even more awesome.

 

[Touring Mars]

No, it's a new game from RockStar called Grand Theft Auto: Vice Presidency

 

[Solid Fro]

It's Microsoft Flight Simulator. As for the hardware, probably something from CH Products.

 

[livemusic]

Use the rudder pedals, woman!

 

[YSSMAN]

No, it's a new game from RockStar called Grand Theft Auto: Vice Presidency

You sir shall receive +10 invisible awesome points redeemable at your local Foot Locker. Awesome!

===

Oh, this just came across the news...

The Palin "Troopergate" investigation has been pushed ahead. Origionally the report was going to be released on October 31, but it has been pushed ahead by three weeks. Its hard to say what kind of effect it will have on her nomination, but when it is becoming clear that she is stonewalling the investigation (clearly going against McCain's preference to make government "transparent"), it could turn into class five "S-storm" sooner than later.

 

[Sureboss]

Pfft. American's can't interrupt cities like Brits given the freedom of a city can. Driving sheep through London ftw!

Keeping on the light note, did any Brits see Mock The Week last night?

 

[FoolKiller]

The Palin "Troopergate" investigation has been pushed ahead. Origionally the report was going to be released on October 31, but it has been pushed ahead by three weeks. Its hard to say what kind of effect it will have on her nomination, but when it is becoming clear that she is stonewalling the investigation (clearly going against McCain's preference to make government "transparent"), it could turn into class five "S-storm" sooner than later.

Um, when quoting sources, make sure that they don't come from the opinion page, as the Anchorage Daily News link is. I mean, that would be like a Republican quoting Rush Limbaugh as a source.

And while I wouldn't have said this a month ago, I am beginning to trust ABC less and less. This article seems to have only talked to Senator French and not asked the McCain campaign or even Governor Palin's staff for a response. They don't even say they tried and were refused. Why only one side of the story? It is either bad journalism, or somebody is taking sides.

And don't even get me started on the stuff I have seen Good Morning America do.


Hmm, that bordered on a rant. I didn't mean it to seem that way. I just get worked up when I see bad journalism.

 

[L_Hamilton]

Campaign over!

Cindy McCain owns a drift team.

Epic total win.

Whhhhaa!??!?!?

Link???


I don't care, screw the link..


EPIC!!!!!!!!

 

[YSSMAN]

One problem with the press speaking to Senator McCain and Gov. Palin:

...They aren't talking to the media...

After a grilling that one of McCain's representatives received on CNN over Palin's experience, McCain canceled his appearance on Larry King for later that night. The day after, all of the speakers demonized the press as a group hell-bent on destroying the reputation of he and Palin (despite the fact McCain has always had a warm relationship with the media), but in reality, they were asking otherwise reasonable questions about her and her policies. When you bring someone into the fray who has otherwise been isolated in Alaska, one that otherwise is without a track-record or much of a name for anything that shes done, obviously people are going to start asking questions.

Its the same problem we see in every election cycle, that one news group is kissing their ass too hard, and another is throwing too many punches below the belt. Perhaps it would be best to just be spoon-fed soundbites and press releases, but at least in my opinion, it would be better to have the press ask hard questions when these people are going to be leading our country for the next four years. The issue here is that the McCain camp needs to separate for themselves those who are in the press (Fox News, The Washington Post, Politico etc) and those in the blogosphere (Daily Kos, The Drudge Report, etc) and they will see that its the 'Wild West' of the blog world that has been stirring the "s-pot" via the internet, not the "mainstream media."