Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[FoolKiller]

Isn't California kind of similar to Kentucky in presidential elections, in that it is always heavily one-sided so a third-party vote by you would have very little effect on the outcome?

EDIT: Obviously Kentucky and California go in opposite directions.

 

[Danoff]

Isn't California kind of similar to Kentucky in presidential elections, in that it is always heavily one-sided so a third-party vote by you would have very little effect on the outcome?

Not to worry, I'm voting Barr all the way. Just remarking on how the republicans of late seem to be the worst possible combination of financial and social policy.

 

[YSSMAN]

In the news:

McCain is talking about skipping the debate on Friday to address the economic issue in Washington.

I'm going to assume that he will pass, I don't think there is a chance in hell we'll actually get anywhere close to the crux of this economic issue, much less pass any kind of bill, by the end of the day on Friday. I'll be disappointed if this first debate gets canceled, but I'd love to hear what others think...

EDIT:

Whoops, looks like its a total suspension of McCain's campaign until an agreement is reached on the economic plan. I'll echo the sentiment of Senator Schumer that the move is in fact "just weird."

 

[Solid Fro]

I think McCain should tag in Palin to take on Obama for the debate. Funny how Obama wants to debate all of a sudden. Obama juked and jived McCain's challenges all summer long.

 

[Vasco]

I think McCain should tag in Palin to take on Obama for the debate. Funny how Obama wants to debate all of a sudden. Obama juked and jived McCain's challenges all summer long.

I thought Obama always wanted to debate, just because he didn't accept McCain's ten debate extension or what not doesn't mean he doesn't want to debate.

I just have a few questions, the first two I could probably google but I'd rather hear something from one of you Americans. Would someone be able to give me a quick summary on libertarian beliefs/policies? I haven't really heard too much about them until recently, have they always been around as a minor party?
And who are you going to vote for Sage and why?

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Thanks for adding the poll.

 

[Touring Mars]

I can add a poll if someone would be good enough to provide a full list of candidates and their affiliations...?

 

[Danoff]

I can add a poll if someone would be good enough to provide a full list of candidates and their affiliations...?

McCain/Palin - Republican
Obama/Biden - Democrat
Barr/Root - Libertarian
Nader/Gonzales - Independent
McKinney/Clemente - Green

Not 100% sure what Nader's affiliation is, but I'm pretty sure he is without party.

 

[Tornado]

He is affiliated with the Peace and Freedom Party in some states.

 

[Touring Mars]

Thanks 👍 I've updated the thread to now include a poll - and in-keeping with reality, your votes will be confidential.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Thanks for adding the poll. This will be my last reply in this thread.

 

[Joey D]

Ya, thanks for the poll. I'll be curious to see how it all plays out as I know a few members are strong supporters of candidate X but as in most election it's the people you never hear talk about politics that make the decision.

 

[YSSMAN]

That is absolutely true, which is why politics are always so fascinating. Its all about getting that middle 30-40%, and of course, these are the closing weeks in which they will slide back and forth all week.

The RealClearPolitics average is showing Obama with a 3%+ lead over McCain nationally, which is still fairly close. Michigan, my home state, may as well be filed in the "blue" category, Obama has a pretty solid 5% lead now. Of course, the states that will likely end up deciding the election will be Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Virginia.

BTW: Thanks for the poll!

RE: Nader's Party

I believe he is running for the Reform Party this year in most states...

 

[Omnis]

Thanks 👍 I've updated the thread to now include a poll - and in-keeping with reality, your votes will be confidential.

You forgot Baldwin/Castle - Constitution Party.

I'm gonna vote for either Barr or Baldwin. Depends on ballot access, but I'll most likely vote Barr.

 

[Solid Fro]

I thought Obama always wanted to debate, just because he didn't accept McCain's ten debate extension or what not doesn't mean he doesn't want to debate.

No, Obama even tried to duck from Clinton's challenges for debate. It's clear that Obama performs better reading a teleprompter than answering real questions.

Would someone be able to give me a quick summary on libertarian beliefs/policies? I haven't really heard too much about them until recently, have they always been around as a minor party?

Wikipedia is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

On a side note: I found this in my wallet... what the ****?

I suppose this is what Ron Paul supporters do on their spare time? Put cute little stamps on dollar bills? At least Ron Paul looks like those other presidents on the currency...

 

[Casio]

So why didn't McCain come on Letterman last night?

 

[Omnis]

So why didn't McCain come on Letterman last night?

 

[Solid Lifters]

So why didn't McCain come on Letterman last night?

Because Dave's not as important as he thinks.

Omnis showed what a huge baby he is about it, too.

Geez, grow up, Dave.

 

[YSSMAN]

Hold on a second, its pretty well-known that Dave is a good friend of Senator McCain. McCain has been on the show numerous times, and to that end, McCain even announced his campaign on the show. So why, pray tell, would McCain find it necessary to essentially lie to his friend, to Dave's fans, and then try to spin it out as something different. He told Dave directly over the phone that he was headed to Washington immediately to address the economic issue. But he first had to stop at Katie's desk. Then have dinner. The spend the night in a hotel. Then show up at the big environmental meeting. Then making it to Washington 22 hours later... All while the legislation he was trying to aid was falling apart at the hands of House Republicans. Whoops!

What in God's name was McCain thinking? As Dave puts it, there is something that "stinks" about this, and when its a good friend of McCain saying that... Again, just like we saw with George will, that is a major problem. Beyond that, bring in the point about how many millions of fans that Dave has, what effect that could have on their vote. Was this anywhere close to a well thought out plan? If McCain would have told Dave, "Hey, listen, a lot of really important stuff has come up that I need to attend to, and unfortunately I can't do your show today," instead of lying about where he was going, it would have been a completely different issue.

Personally, I'm awe-struck by the absolute idiocy that has been demonstrated by the McCain campaign this week. With the embarrassing Palin gaffes, his removal of the New York Times because they're "in the tank," coupled with his percieved "God-Like" ability to somehow fix this mess of an economic issue, suspending his campaign, and probably not showing up to the debate (allowing Senator Obama to have the floor all to himself)...

 

[Omnis]

(allowing Senator Obama to have the floor all to himself)...

Are the 3rd party candidates not going to be there? I'd like to see both major parties torn a new one, to be honest.

 

[YSSMAN]

As far as I know Omnis, none of the third-party candidates will be represented at any of the debates, which is a major disappointment. If it seems fairly likely that Congressman Barr can (and probably will) take at least 10% of the vote, he should be up there with Senator Obama and Senator McCain. At the very least, it would be more entertaining than a proposed Obama town hall in prime-time...

 

[Casio]

Yeah, when I was watching Letterman last night, I was thinking that if I were an American McCain supporter, I'd be pretty pissed. And of course Dave drumming in the whole night about why didn't Palin take over the debates instead.

 

[Solid Fro]

As far as I know Omnis, none of the third-party candidates will be represented at any of the debates, which is a major disappointment.

You are like a child waiting for Santa to stubble down the chimney on Christmas night. He ain't gonna show up... third parties are not viable. I'm sorry, we don't live in an Utopia.

Personally, I'm awe-struck by the absolute idiocy that has been demonstrated by the McCain campaign this week. With the embarrassing Palin gaffes, his removal of the New York Times because they're "in the tank," coupled with his percieved "God-Like" ability to somehow fix this mess of an economic issue, suspending his campaign, and probably not showing up to the debate (allowing Senator Obama to have the floor all to himself)...

I have gaffes, flip-flops, and lies from the Obama campaign stretching from January. Would you like me to post all of them?

As for the bailout, Democrats seem to blame the failure on McCain himself even though McCain said little, if not nothing, during the meeting.

How nice of Democrats, right?

The House GOP has an alternative plan. Not a bailout, but a loan.

Attack McCain when ever you want. Do you know what name we haven't mentioned in this debate? That's right, Barack Obama's.

 

[Joey D]

If any of that "loan" money gets paid back I'll be very surprised.

 

[YSSMAN]

You are like a child waiting for Santa to stubble down the chimney on Christmas night. He ain't gonna show up... third parties are not viable. I'm sorry, we don't live in an Utopia.

Oh come off it. For someone who continues to wave the flag of democracy, you know damn-well that their opinion counts too. I may not be a big fan of third parties, but they play a key role in defining the politics of the present, and consequently they should be there.

Thank you for being short-sighted.

I have gaffes, flip-flops, and lies from the Obama campaign stretching from January. Would you like me to post all of them?

Here is the deal: McFail and company have managed to accomplish all of this in one week, throw on what happened the week before... My God! What the hell happened?

As for the bailout, Democrats seem to blame the failure on McCain himself even though McCain said little, if not nothing, during the meeting.

How nice of Democrats, right?

Its his presence, his politicizing of the event that is a partial cause of the failure of the bill. Furthermore, its interesting that Mr. "I need to go to Washington and fix this bill personally" didn't say anything during the meeting. Wazzupwitdat?

The House GOP has an alternative plan. Not a bailout, but a loan.

Thank God there are still good Republicans out there. Match it up with the "strings attached" caps on CEO pay, and extra oversight, I'll be all for it.

Attack McCain when ever you want. Do you know what name we haven't mentioned in this debate? That's right, Barack Obama's.

I think I'm going to vote for you as "Funniest GTP Member 2008."

 

[FoolKiller]

Are the 3rd party candidates not going to be there? I'd like to see both major parties torn a new one, to be honest.

Really, you think in an electoral system that allows majority candidates on ballots, despite missing the filing deadline because they hadn't even been nominated yet, that they would be included in the debates as well?

Nope, we just get two versions of the same crap.

That said, Bob Barr will be responding to the debates live from Reason magazine headquarters.
http://blog.bobbarr2008.com/2008/09/26/reason-debate-night/

Please join reason, either in person or online, for a live counter-debate on Friday, Sept. 26, with Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr, who will respond to John McCain, Barack Obama and moderator Jim Lehrer in real time. We will be live-blogging Barr’s responses at Hit & Run, and videotaping the whole proceedings, which will include a brief post-debate Q&A with reason staffers, bloggers, and other interested parties. The fun begins at 8:00 PM, the debate starts at 9:00 sharp, and the drinks will be provided by the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States. In a year rich with libertarian politics, the only place you’ll hear a candidate talking libertarian ideas will be in reason’s Washington headquarters.

What: Bob Barr debates the presidential debaters

When: Friday, September 26, 8:00 PM to 10:30 PM

Where: Reason HQ, 1747 Connecticut Avenue NW (near S Street)

RSVPs: A must. Send e-mail to events@reason.com, or call 310.391.2245.

You are like a child waiting for Santa to stubble down the chimney on Christmas night. He ain't gonna show up... third parties are not viable. I'm sorry, we don't live in an Utopia.

We went through this in the primaries. What is it that you have against allowing third-parties to be heard so that people will actually know who they are and they may actually become, I don't know, viable? Or is that what you are afraid might happen?

Honestly, if you think we will hear anything viable, much less truthful, from these two guys you are blind. And I think your usage of utopia is incorrect here. I don't expect a perfect socio-political system, but I do expect the American people to actually have a chance to know their options instead of two guys that are full of BS. Imagine having a couple of other guys who can actually call the two main guys out on their lies.

Anyway, instead of going on I will just give a quote about this very issue.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/09/opposing-view.html

Opposing Views
By Bob Barr

Limiting the presidential debates to just the Republican and Democratic candidates robs the American public of different viewpoints that can expand the discussion of the challenges that face our country.

Voters are faced with a looming economic crisis and runaway federal spending, yet they are going to hear from only the two parties that were in charge throughout the creation of these problems.

It's time to include more viewpoints in the debate and force the Republican and Democratic candidates to go beyond their scripted answers and stump speeches.

Without my inclusion in the debates, there will be no discussion of cutting the size of our government, cutting federal spending, cutting taxes and establishing a Commission on Wasteful Government.

Pretending there is only a Republican or Democratic proposal to solve the challenges our nation faces ignores the voices of millions upon millions of Americans who are sick and tired of partisan posturing.

The voters are hungry for change, but they will just hear more of the same unless the debates open to more participation.

Thank God there are still good Republicans out there. Match it up with the "strings attached" caps on CEO pay, and extra oversight, I'll be all for it.

If you feel you need to place limits like that in order to keep the money safe, then you shouldn't be trusting them with loans anyway. Giving them a loan with concerns and limits like that is the same as those companies giving loans to low-income families with stipulations all over them. You would just be trying to solve the problem by doing the same thing, on a much, much bigger scale.

I think I'm going to vote for you as "Funniest GTP Member 2008."

I vote both of you return to your corners.

While you two are only bordering on personal attacks, the back and forth has gone well into annoying.

 

[Omnis]

The House GOP has an alternative plan. Not a bailout, but a loan.

Right, loan away our money to crooks who have already proven themselves to be poor stewards of credit? No thanks.

Anyway, here is Letterman part 2:

 

[Solid Fro]

We went through this in the primaries. What is it that you have against allowing third-parties to be heard so that people will actually know who they are and they may actually become, I don't know, viable? Or is that what you are afraid might happen?

I don't have anything against third-parties. Sitting around hoping that one day they become viable doesn't seem like a good use of my time.

Oh, on a breaking news side note: McCain will attend the debate.

 

[Joey D]

I don't see anyone sitting around hoping that third parties will become viable. I see them sitting around talking about what they are going to do to make third parties viable.

And McCain's debate thing was nothing more then a publicity stunt to get people talking about him. I think it was rather lame too.

 

[FoolKiller]

I don't have anything against third-parties. Sitting around hoping that one day they become viable the election proces will work like it is supposed to doesn't seem like a good use of my time.

Fixed that for ya.

Oh, on a breaking news side note: McCain will attend the debate.

Quick, show of hands. Who is surprised?


Anyone?

Hello?