Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[Klostrophobic]

I don't think it's dumb to say that Palin is incompetent and not nearly intelligent enough to be the President of the United States and that, in choosing her as his running mate, McCain is unfit to also run the country. Not that I want either party winning this election of course. I just think Palin is an utterly ridiculous choice and that making that choice says something pretty horrible about McCain. That he can't make important decisions.

The only good reason I can see to vote for McCain is that having a totally Democrat controlled government sounds like just about the worst thing I could possibly conceive. Which I guess is a pretty decent reason.

 

[Joey D]

I'm glad I'm not running for president then.

To keep saying that McCain equals Bush or that McCain is computer illiterate because he wants to be is just plain dumb in my opinion.

Ah, I don't agree with your viewpoint so I'm dumb? I would appreciate this not to become personal and stick with statements that can be backed up, which I will supply for my statements.

McCain is very similar to Bush, he agrees with him a majority of the time.

Fact Check: Does McCain almost always agree with Bush?

The Statement:

At a presidential debate Friday, September 26, in Oxford, Mississippi, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama attempted to tie Republican opponent Sen. John McCain to President Bush. "John, it's been your president, who you said you agreed with 90 percent of the time, who presided over this increase in spending," he said.

The Facts:

According to an analysis by Congressional Quarterly, McCain has voted for bills favored by President Bush 90 percent of the time. The nonpartisan publication, which has analyzed voting by members of Congress since 1953, said the report took into account all legislation that Bush had taken a clear position on. It spans from the beginning of Bush's term to Congress's recess in August.

In the 100-member Senate, 14 current members — all Republicans — voted with Bush more than 90 percent of the time, according to the report. Six others have a 90 percent rating like McCain's. The report shows Obama voting with Bush 40 percent of the time and his running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, voting with Bush 52 percent of the time during the course of his presidency.

Obama surrogates also frequently say McCain voted with Bush 95 percent of the time. This is a reference to the Republican senator's record in 2007. That was the highest percentage in the seven years studied. In 2005, McCain voted with Bush 77 percent of the time — his lowest percentage in those years. "The president and I agree on most issues," McCain said in a May 22, 2003 interview on Fox's "Your World with Neil Cavuto." "There was a recent study that showed that I voted with the president over 90 percent of the time, higher than a lot of my even Republican colleagues."

Verdict: True

Source:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...ck-does-mccain-almost-always-agree-with-bush/

And McCain himself said he was a computer illiterate. I'm not making it up as it came directly from his mouth, not some webpage, not someone else.

 

[Solid Fro]

I don't think it's dumb to say that Palin is incompetent and not nearly intelligent enough to be the President of the United States and that, in choosing her as his running mate, McCain is unfit to also run the country. Not that I want either party winning this election of course. I just think Palin is an utterly ridiculous choice and that making that choice says something pretty horrible about McCain. That he can't make important decisions.

The only good reason I can see to vote for McCain is that having a totally Democrat controlled government sounds like just about the worst thing I could possibly conceive. Which I guess is a pretty decent reason.

I don't have a problem with that, it's your opinion.

What I do have a problem with is when people use statements taken out of context, stories that are completely made up just to smear candidates, and ignoring the facts and records of those candidates.

 

[Joey D]

I don't have a problem with that, it's your opinion.

What I do have a problem with is when people use statements taken out of context, stories that are completely made up just to smear candidates, and ignoring the facts and records of those candidates.

And where have I done this? I just showed you sources for both statements, one being directly from the candidates mouth.

 

[Tornado]

I'm amazed by the idiocy of both candidates in still trying to push the bailout bill.

 

[Omnis]

I'm amazed by the idiocy of both candidates in still trying to push the bailout bill.

False dichotomy alert! There are other candidates against the bill. I called out my logic professor this morning on the same fallacy and he gave me a bonus point.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm amazed by the idiocy of both candidates in still trying to push the bailout bill.

What else would you expect? I think they realize that something needs to be done instead of nothing, the question is who's "something" is better than the others. Obama wants to work with the leaders in Congress to have the best bill possible, McCain wants to act like "Economic Jesus" and fix everything (despite his admittance that he doesn't know much about the economy).

At least we can take solace in knowing that the longer the GOP drags its feet on the issue, the more likely it will be that Obama gets elected.

 

[FoolKiller]

What else would you expect? I think they realize that something needs to be done instead of nothing, the question is who's "something" is better than the others.

Any something from Congress is worse than nothing.

Obama wants to work with the leaders in Congress to have the best bill possible,

Which would be no bill. Or maybe a bill that reiterates that Congress must obey the Constitution (crazy idea, I know).

McCain wants to act like "Economic Jesus" and fix everything (despite his admittance that he doesn't know much about the economy).

If he or Obama think that any bill they pass will do anything to "fix" the economy then they are both proving they know nothing about the economy.

At least we can take solace in knowing that the longer the GOP drags its feet on the issue, the more likely it will be that Obama gets elected.

I take solace in knowing that the longer people (I don't care about party) drag their feet the better the chances of the market correcting itself before the government manages to make it even worse.

 

[Danoff]

What they need to be doing right now is repealing the legislation that got us into this mess in the first place and putting safeguards in place to assure that future legislators won't make the same mistake.

 

[Omnis]

What else would you expect? I think they realize that something needs to be done instead of nothing, the question is who's "something" is better than the others. Obama wants to work with the leaders in Congress to have the best bill possible, McCain wants to act like "Economic Jesus" and fix everything (despite his admittance that he doesn't know much about the economy).

At least we can take solace in knowing that the longer the GOP drags its feet on the issue, the more likely it will be that Obama gets elected.

The government can do nothing to fix anything.

You mention McCain wanting to act like economic Jesus, but Government in general (and especially Bush) has been carrying this delusion of messianic "fixing" power for a while now.

I quote from a Michael Rozeff post on Lew Rockwell's blog:

There is no way that the government or the Fed can create liquidity or jump start liquidity in a market by injecting liquidity. This is a false medical analogy. The Fed would have to enter the market and become an active participant in it, a dealer with a bid-asked spread. And once it did that, it could not make a price higher than the market price or else the rest of the traders would dump enormous amounts of securities in the Fed's hands. The market would no longer even resemble a free market.

The financial concept that the Chairman is missing is that liquidity is endogenous to a market. It is not exogenous. Markets develop liquidity from within their own trading. It's not something that is imported from outside of the actual trading.

Bernanke should search google for "endogenous liquidity" to find some research on this subject. Congressmen, pay heed. Do not attempt the impossible.

The rest of us should not accept the idea of an outside agent being able to "save" a market by injecting liquidity.

 

[FoolKiller]

What they need to be doing right now is repealing the legislation that got us into this mess in the first place and putting safeguards in place to assure that future legislators won't make the same mistake.

Exactly.

The market will correct and in order for a full recovery we need to remove the regulations that created the problem. Then and only then can the market be considered completely stable.

As it is now these same companies that are struggling to save themselves from being taken out by these bad loans are still required to give them.

My hope is that once Congress gets back to normal business again that someone like Ron Paul will draft legislation to repeal the bad regulations that started all of this.

 

[Omnis]

Exactly.

The market will correct and in order for a full recovery we need to remove the regulations that created the problem. Then and only then can the market be considered completely stable.

As it is now these same companies that are struggling to save themselves from being taken out by these bad loans are still required to give them.

My hope is that once Congress gets back to normal business again that someone like Ron Paul will draft legislation to repeal the bad regulations that started all of this.

Well he already has one in that would repeal the Federal Reserve Act. I don't have the time to do more research on bills that have already been submitted, but I'll probably take a look later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[FoolKiller]

Well he already has one in that would repeal the Federal Reserve Act.

The thing is that I believe that is a bit too ambitious for this current Congress to take seriously.

However, removing a regulation that can be traced almost directly to our current economic problem may actually have a chance to pass.

Although I doubt it. Government has a poor history when it comes to admitting mistakes.

 

[Omnis]

Oh, and here's a gem for all of you Obamists.



Are you still voting for him because of foreign policy? Get real.

 

[YSSMAN]

He has been saying that since the primaries, if you've been paying attention. Encouraging civil service in return for extra college funding, I'd say its a reasonable request, particularly if you're volunteering in your own community or region.

Side note:

Obama is in town this morning. I know people that will be in line at 5AM for a speech that won't happen until 9:30AM. I'm thinking I'll show up around 7AM...

 

[Tornado]

I'm confused by the recent Obama insurance reform ad. It doesn't really sound like the "change" the ad mentions is really any different from the way things are now.

 

[nk4e]

Oh, and here's a gem for all of you Obamists.

Does picking up trash in the highway count?

 

[Omnis]

The point in the Obama video is that he's calling for people to join the government machine. He needs people in his military so that he can invade Pakistan.

 

[Matt R]

Anyone think Osama Bin Laden will be captured this month?

 

[nk4e]

I wonder if they will fall for it.

 

[Solid Fro]

Anyone think Osama Bin Laden will be captured this month?

If you are a conspiracy theorist, yeah.

 

[Giancarlo]

The point in the Obama video is that he's calling for people to join the government machine. He needs people in his military so that he can invade Pakistan.

You're really splitting hairs there. I took it as more of a call for us to get involved in making this country better because we are the future. Be it in the military, in our communities, voting, etc. This is a key point for Obama since he plays the whole "i'm young and a fresh face for the white house" sort of deal.

 

[YSSMAN]

Got Up Early, Saw Senator Obama...

He is a great public speaker, much better than Senator McCain (I saw him back in January). He focused mainly on our current economic situation, discussed the loans given to the Detroit automakers, talked about our taxes, and of course mentioned the call to civil service as well.

If you're at all familiar with Grand Rapids, you know of Calder Plaza....

Senator Obama had people in line earlier than 5AM this morning (the speech didn't start until 9:45AM), completely filled the plaza, and people spilled out into the streets, adjoining parking lots, standing in their office windows... It was just amazing to be down there and feel that kind of energy in a city that is well-known for its conservative base.

There were people climbing all over everything to get a better look at the Senator, the kid here was getting up high, taking people's cameras to take pictures, and then switching his position out with a few other people that were near him. It was just cool to see everyone getting along, helping each other out, all to see one man.

It was well worth getting up early and standing in the bitterly cold weather for more than three hours.

==========================================================

Forgot to mention it

McCain Pulls out of Michigan

Looks like my state is a "lost cause." Interesting...

 

[McLaren]

Anyone think Osama Bin Laden will be captured this month?

You wouldn't be the first to think that. A few radio hosts seem to think it'd be awfully, & amazingly, coincidental if Osama was captured just before Bush left office.

He is a great public speaker, much better than Senator McCain (I saw him back in January). He focused mainly on our current economic situation, discussed the loans given to the Detroit automakers, talked about our taxes, and of course mentioned the call to civil service as well.

He didn't keep saying, "Uh, um, oh" did he?

 

[Omnis]

You're really splitting hairs there. I took it as more of a call for us to get involved in making this country better because we are the future. Be it in the military, in our communities, voting, etc. This is a key point for Obama since he plays the whole "i'm young and a fresh face for the white house" sort of deal.

What do they all have in common? Work for the government.

 

[Solid Fro]

Karl Rove.



Say it ain't so, Joe!

 

[Giancarlo]

What do they all have in common? Work for the government.

Ok, then become an anarchist. They have a strong base down here. One of my good friends is one.

The only problem is that anarchists still help out their community, if not more so.

Say it ain't so, Joe!

I think they both should have shut up about "their neighborhoods" and focus on what is good for the entire country. You're an old timey good-ol-boy, and you're a small-town girl with loads of spunk. I get it. I don't care. The only thing i can respect is that at least Biden doesn't talk like a soccer mom.

 

[Joey D]

Forgot to mention it

McCain Pulls out of Michigan

Looks like my state is a "lost cause." Interesting...

Way to turn your back on a key state McCain. We may not have the biggest population or the most weight in the electoral voting but we do play a big role in things overall, especially with the American auto industry being based here. At least I won't have to hear is stupid commercials on TV any more when I'm attempting to watch something.

As I've said, I don't believe McCain will win anyways so I'm not really all that concerned by it.

 

[Solid Fro]

I think they both should have shut up about "their neighborhoods" and focus on what is good for the entire country. You're an old timey good-ol-boy, and you're a small-town girl with loads of spunk. I get it. I don't care. The only thing i can respect is that at least Biden doesn't talk like a soccer mom.

I think most uncommitted voters like that. I watched the CNNHD feed during the debate and their favorable lines hit the highest when Palin spoke like us.

Maybe I can agree about them shutting up about their neighborhoods, especially Biden, since Katie's Resturant has been closed for more than 15 years.

 

[Vasco]

Yes, they are Conservative, however they use factual information to form Conservative opinions. I am certainly not rooting for Obama, but I sure don't fabricate stories just because I disagree with him.

Don't you mean they use very selective factual information to form Conservative opinions?