Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

[Solid Fro]

Don't you mean they use very selective factual information to form Conservative opinions?

No.

 

[Vasco]

The thing is that I believe that is a bit too ambitious for this current Congress to take seriously.

However, removing a regulation that can be traced almost directly to our current economic problem may actually have a chance to pass.

Although I doubt it. Government has a poor history when it comes to admitting mistakes.

What regulation was that? It seemed that certain forms of regulation were not in place which could have prevented this.

 

[Joey D]

Come now, you honestly think conservatives use 100% factual information all the time and liberals do not? I don't know what world you live in, but it doesn't sound like the United States. Both sides are full of liars, just as both sides are full of people who know what's going on. I can not believe how blindly biased you are Solid Fro, you call me dumb for my opinions yet you always seem to amaze me with some of your statements...which you rarely back up.

 

[Solid Fro]

...you call me dumb for my opinions...

I sure did.

yet you always seem to amaze me with some of your statements...which you rarely back up.

Show me one statement I claimed to be factual that I didn't provide the facts to back it up.

 

[Joey D]

You know what, I had a big reply all typed out, but it's not even worth arguing with you. You obviously have no respect for members with differing opinions then yours and you really have no respect for the rules of the forum.

 

[Leonidae]

in order to bring some light and humor to this thread..

 

[Omnis]

in order to bring some light and humor to this thread..

Or...

 

[Matt R]

Not much post debate talk going on.

I think Joe Biden sounded unscripted. I think Palin couldn't answer a question. Not one she didn't rehearse for anyway. As unbiased as I can be I feel Biden won the debate. Palin wouldn't quit winking.

I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts. Especially Zero's. Who do you think won the debate?

 

[YSSMAN]

You know what, I had a big reply all typed out, but it's not even worth arguing with you. You obviously have no respect for members with differing opinions then yours and you really have no respect for the rules of the forum.

I gave up long ago, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I figure if I'm going to post Obama news, he'll be there to cut it down with some kind of McCain thingy. I suppose that makes it "fair."

RE: McCain Pulling out of Michigan

I was informed today by a friend of mine who had been working for the McCain campaign that apparently Gov. Palin tried to fight pulling out of Michigan, believing that the ship can be turned around. I laughed pretty hard at that one, particularly after seeing the events for the past two weeks. Obama, on both of his visits, has drawn far more attention than McCain has in his... When there are more Obama signs in Conservative-heaven East Grand Rapids, there is a problem... When my Grandmother, a life long Republican, and one of the only people I knew who was sticking with McCain is thinking otherwise, there is a clear problem...

The thing is, there was a point at which McCain had a chance. There was definitely a point at which I was getting to be a bit concerned over his lead in the polls, but as anyone in this state knows, the final vote will be decided by Detroit (no matter how strong Grand Rapids may be), and with the economic issues solidified further in a negative light... In an era that has been in a recession for the last six years... That was the final nail in the coffin for McCain.

I'm interested to see how he will fare in other states, particularly those that (like Michigan) were supposed to be places where he would have had a chance. Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Florida are all in play... With only a month left, this will be very interesting indeed.

 

[Solid Fro]

You know what, I had a big reply all typed out, but it's not even worth arguing with you. You obviously have no respect for members with differing opinions then yours and you really have no respect for the rules of the forum.

I'm glad I didn't try too hard.

When your opinion is based on stupidity, not fact, I'll call you out every single time. Nothing to do with respect, rules, or understanding one another.

 

[Joey D]

Not much post debate talk going on.

I think Joe Biden sounded unscripted. I think Palin couldn't answer a question. Not one she didn't rehearse for anyway. As unbiased as I can be I feel Biden won the debate. Palin wouldn't quit winking.

I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts. Especially Zero's. Who do you think won the debate?

Palin is a former beauty queen (although by looking at her you can't tell) so it's going to be all rehearsed drivel, even more so then the average politician. I believe Biden won the debate as well, he seemed to know what's going on a bit more and has more experience in politics.

I was informed today by a friend of mine who had been working for the McCain campaign that apparently Gov. Palin tried to fight pulling out of Michigan, believing that the ship can be turned around. I laughed pretty hard at that one, particularly after seeing the events for the past two weeks. Obama, on both of his visits, has drawn far more attention than McCain has in his... When there are more Obama signs in Conservative-heaven East Grand Rapids, there is a problem... When my Grandmother, a life long Republican, and one of the only people I knew who was sticking with McCain is thinking otherwise, there is a clear problem...

When a Republican loses ground in Grand Rapids they are screwed and glued. I mean it's got all the right elements to be a Conservative haven, heavily Christian, white collar and wealthy.

It's the same on this side of the state as well, way more Obama signs then McCain signs, but then again my side of the state is heavily blue collar workers.

The thing is, there was a point at which McCain had a chance. There was definitely a point at which I was getting to be a bit concerned over his lead in the polls, but as anyone in this state knows, the final vote will be decided by Detroit (no matter how strong Grand Rapids may be), and with the economic issues solidified further in a negative light... In an era that has been in a recession for the last six years... That was the final nail in the coffin for McCain.

People associate McCain to Bush, and I can't blame them, this area doesn't need four more years of those economic policies. Although Gov. Grandmole isn't helping the situation either. No I don't support giving money to the automotive industry for failing but I do support other things.

My only concern about Obama in the Detroit area is the black vote, it's been proven that blacks have low turn out numbers in the Detroit area. I really hope they get out and vote this time and I've heard a ton of radio commercials encouraging that. Obama should have the black vote with no problem, at least around here, barring they vote.

 

[Giancarlo]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/14/america/palin.php

 

[YSSMAN]

My only concern about Obama in the Detroit area is the black vote, it's been proven that blacks have low turn out numbers in the Detroit area. I really hope they get out and vote this time and I've heard a ton of radio commercials encouraging that. Obama should have the black vote with no problem, at least around here, barring they vote.

I don't think it will be too big of a problem in the end, normally their turnout coupled with the UAW votes always offset anything that we have here. The key to Grand Rapids (and the outlying areas) is going to be getting the youth to come out and vote, by which there has been a massive campaign to do so with all of the local colleges nearby. Although, at least for me, its going to be most-important to get the middle-class thirtysomethings out there. The ones that are at risk for losing their jobs, their homes, their entire way of life when it had otherwise been "safe" even two years ago...

Politico has an interesting article on the subject, but I think this summarizes the McCain campaign's problems pretty clearly in our state:

As much as some Republicans might want McCain-Palin back in Michigan, McCain’s poll numbers have dropped precipitously in recent state polling. And while his campaign’s decision to leave the state was abrupt, it was not completely unforeseeable.

Since the crisis on Wall Street began two weeks ago, Obama has steadily widened his advantage over McCain. In a poll taken Sept. 14-17 by the Michigan firm EPIC-MRA, McCain trailed Obama by just 1 point. In a new poll taken from Sept. 20-22, that gap had widened to 10 points.

And in an even more recent survey conducted by the Iowa firm Selzer & Co., Obama led McCain 51 percent to 38 percent.

“Among whites, I still think he is lagging among older white men without a college education, but everyone else, including independent women, [is] moving toward Obama,” EPIC-MRA President Bernie Porn.

Porn suggested that shift could largely be explained by the reemergence of economic issues as the central focus of the general election campaign — and McCain’s shaky response to developing events on Wall Street.

“As much as it was about any positive messages Obama might have had, I think it also involved miscues on the part of the McCain campaign, inconsistencies, contradictions,” he said. “Calling off his campaign and everything, I’m not sure people responded to that the way the McCain campaign expected them to.”

...Its going to be that same economic message that is going to be turning the tide in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania (Obama up by two and eight points respectively), and it will be the manner at which things are handeled in general that will decide how McCain will do in Florida and Virginia (Obama up by three and two respectively) and likely decide the outcome of the race altogether.

If McCain can't win Florida or Ohio, I really do not see how he will win the election at all.

 

[Giancarlo]

I have a feeling McCain will win Florida.

 

[Keef]

All this Obama stuff in here is interesting. I haven't been paying any attention to this discussion, but I've been listening intently to AM 700 WLW from Cincinnati for weeks, and everything I've heard has me thinking that McCain is looking like the better candidate in this area. I really don't hear much good about Obama and Biden, and a lot more for McCain, with a good outlook for Palin. 700 WLW is broadcast nationally on XM so some of you may know of Bill Cunningham and Mike McConnell, etc.

But this thread has me thinking that the majority of internet-types are going to go with Obama. So I'm getting mixed signals. McCain is king in Cinci, but Obama is ruling in Detroit--two equally industrialized cities chock full of minorities. Or maybe it's simply the old-white-AM-radio-guys that are supporting McCain, and I'm simply not hearing the rest of the story.

 

[Joey D]

Sarah Palin says Obama is buddy buddy with terrorists.

Palin hits Obama for 'terrorist' connection

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin on Saturday slammed Sen. Barack Obama's political relationship with a former anti-war radical, accusing him of associating "with terrorists who targeted their own country."

Palin's attack delivered on the McCain campaign's announcement that it would step up attacks on the Democratic presidential candidate with just a month left before the November general election.

"We see America as the greatest force for good in this world," Palin said at a fund-raising event in Colorado, adding, "Our opponent though, is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country."

Palin made similar comments later at a rally in Carson, California.

Obama's Chicago, Illinois, home is in the same neighborhood as Bill Ayers, a founder of the radical Weather Underground, which was involved in several bombings in the early 1970s, including the Pentagon and the Capitol, and the two have met several times since Obama's 1995 campaign for a state Senate seat.

Palin cited an article in Saturday's New York Times about Obama's relationship with Ayers, now 63. But that article concluded that "the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called 'somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.' "

Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The National Review, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship.

Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago.

Obama campaign spokesman Hari Sevugan called Palin's comments "offensive" and "not surprising given the McCain campaign's statement this morning that they would be launching Swift Boat-like attacks in hopes of deflecting attention from the nation's economic ills."

With Obama rising in polls while the country struggles in the grip of a financial crisis, Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign decided to shift attention away from the troubled economy and onto issues of his opponent's character, judgment and personal associations, the Washington Post reported.

"We're going to get a little tougher," a senior Republican operative said, requesting anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss strategy. "We've got to question this guy's associations. Very soon. There's no question that we have to change the subject here."

The Obama camp said the tactic wouldn't work.

"What's clear is that John McCain and Sarah Palin would rather spend their time tearing down Barack Obama than laying out a plan to build up our economy," Sevugan said.

Obama and Ayers met at meeting for a school reform project in 1995 and again later that year. Then, Ayers hosted an event where then-Illinois state Sen. Alice Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced the young community organizer as her chosen successor, campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said. Both men also served on a charitable board together, he said.

Labolt also said the two have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in their Hyde Park neighborhood.

Obama and McCain will meet for their second debate Tuesday night and will take questions directly from voters in a town hall-style format.

Continue clutching at straws, one might work.

Oh and I found this amusing...

Palin Disagrees With Michigan Pullout, Takes Second Stab at 'Gotcha' Questions

Sarah Palin criticized John McCain's decision to pull campaign resources out of Michigan in an interview with FOX News on Friday, saying she and her husband Todd would "be happy" to campaign in the economically distraught battleground state.

The Republican vice presidential nominee, on the heels of her debate with Joe Biden, also took a second stab at questions that seemed to trip her up during recent interviews, declaring that she looks "forward to speaking to the media more and more every day."

Palin said the decision to pull out of Michigan, which was announced Thursday, was "not a surprise" to her since polls show McCain slipping in the state.

But Palin said that when she read the news, she "fired off a quick e-mail and said, 'Oh come on, do we have to?'"

"Todd and I, we'd be happy to get to Michigan ...We'd be so happy to speak to the people there in Michigan who are hurting," she said. "Whatever Todd and I can do in realizing what their challenges in that state are .... I wanna get back to Michigan and I want to try."

It's unclear whether the McCain campaign will heed Palin's request. McCain aides said on a conference call Thursday that Michigan had always been the weakest of the toss-up states for them, and that they are still competing in several other battlegrounds like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and moving resources into high-stakes states like Florida.

Palin's public break with McCain on strategy is surprising but not unprecendented. She has disagreed with him on policy issues like drilling in Alaska, and she said in Thursday night's debate that it's inevitable the two will disagree.

"What do you expect? A team of mavericks," she said. "Of course we're not gonna agree on everything."

Palin spoke with FOX News just hours after finishing her first and only debate with Biden. She said she "had a ball" and thought it went well.

She also tried to explain her shaky performance during interviews with CBS News' Katie Couric over the past week.

"The Sarah Palin in those interviews was a little bit annoyed because no matter what you say you're gonna get clobbered," she said.

Asked by Couric to name the periodicals she reads, Palin repeatedly declined. She also would not name any Supreme Court decisions she disagreed with, other than the Roe v. Wade abortion ruling.

Palin told FOX News on Friday that she reads the same newspapers and magazines as everyone else, "including The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal and The Economist."

She said she "shouldn't have been so flippant" on the Supreme Court question. "I can cite a lot of cases that I absolutely disagree with the Supreme Court on."

She cited the June decision that child rapists cannot be executed, as well as the 2005 decision that local governments can seize private land for purposes of economic development.

Her performance at Thursday night's debate was widely viewed as a recovery from her interviews of the past week and a return to the confident persona she projected at the Republican National Convention a month ago.

Asked about claims that she was being sequestered and over-managed by McCain staffers over the past week, she said: "Well I beg to differ with the notion that I was reined in in any way, but if there was any of that, it's over."

Really? You fired off an e-mail to a man that knows nothing about computers? But ya that article is full of awesome quotes from Palin. This chick is seriously one heart beat away from being the leader of our country...we really are doomed.

 

[Omnis]

As if we're not doomed anyway.

 

[Joey D]

As if we're not doomed anyway.

Touché, we really are in a damned if we do damned if we don't situation concerning the leading candidates. I do agree other parties need to be looked at in order to sort this mess of a country out.

I've been looking around the net and found the Boston Tea Party which I seem to agree with. They are small of course and are related to the Libertarian party. I really like the ideas of the Libertarian party but I don't really care for Bob Barr, which is a real shame.

 

[Keef]

But Bob Barr has cool glasses.

Hate your neighbor. Mine voted for McCain. I voted for Ron Paul. It's a case of lazy Americans not doing any free, easy, get-it-anywhere research because they think their vote doesn't matter. But they vote anyway because when it comes time to vote they want to speak their uneducated mind. Stupid people having a say in decisions like...well, any decision, is just something we've got to live with. Our parents lived with it and we'll have to also. Us 20 year olds have a lot of good an bad presidents to live through in the coming years.

 

[YSSMAN]

But Bob Barr has cool glasses.

He has a great radio voice as well, I woke up to him this morning on NPR. He talks with a lot of common-sense propositions, and I like that. But, in terms of whats going on right now, its not a choice I'm willing to make. I refuse to have McCain in office. Period.

 

[Keef]

Oh yeah? Well I just found a foreign object in my gummi bears. How'd that get in there?

Anyway, I refuse to have any of them in office. Obama and McCain, that is. But I will excercise my voting right, and I'm going to use some strategy in it. Hopefully others do, too.

Bill Cunningham's strategy was to get Obama in office. He'd screw the country up and put us on the edge of socialism, and then when people realize what they voted for they'll oust him after 4 years, voting in a true conservative, liberty-oriented Republican to take his place, and for decades after. How's that for strategy?

I don't know if that's what I'll do. My dad tells me I'll "waste" my vote by choosing Barr, and that it would be better to vote for the lesser evil of the two main candidates. I can see that. But, if I vote for the libertarian party it would give them a 1 vote boost in support, and that could add up over time, resulting in a Libertarian president within the next few terms. Eh?

 

[Giancarlo]

Why would voting for Obama put us on "the edge of socialism"? Why don't you say that voting for McCain would put us on the edge of fascism?

 

[Danoff]

Us 20 year olds have a lot of good an bad presidents to live through in the coming years.

Fixed that for you. Honestly, how many good presidents have we had in the last hundred years or so? 1? Ok there's probably another one.

if I vote for the libertarian party it would give them a 1 vote boost in support, and that could add up over time, resulting in a Libertarian president within the next few terms. Eh?

That's why I registered Libertarian. To give them one more number to add to their roll.

Why would voting for Obama put us on "the edge of socialism"? Why don't you say that voting for McCain would put us on the edge of facism?

Because McCain is a democrat.

 

[Giancarlo]

Because McCain is a democrat.

Um, no?

 

[Keef]

Yes. Ron Paul is a republican. Bob Barr, like Paul, is similar to a traditional republican, but he's had to run in the libertarian party because there's no room for him in the 'pubs. McCain just happens to have a republican banner flying above his fairly liberal head.

 

[eiriksmil]

Americans complaining about how socialist the Democrats are are funny people. They should come here. Our outmost right-hand political parties are communists compared to the Democrats.
I love Sarah Palin's new attack on Obama. She forgot Bush is friends with the bin Ladens. I read a very good blog earlier:
"I mean, if being neighbour to Russia gives one all the necessary skills to be a national security expert, imagine the skills in anti-terrorism gained from being friend with a terrorist..."

 

[Danoff]

Americans complaining about how socialist the Democrats are are funny people. They should come here.

No thank you. The democrats (and some republicans) are plenty socialist for me.

 

[eiriksmil]

You should really visit Norway. We pay $130k for an Evo X, $7.5 for a gallon of gas, 25% taxes on most things we buy, etc. On the other hand we have a better health-care system than you. Anyway, that's not the point, you should come here. I'll buy you a beer, $13

 

[Joey D]

Ignore exchange rates much?

 

[Omnis]

You should really visit Norway. We pay $130k for an Evo X, $7.5 for a gallon of gas, 25% taxes on most things we buy, etc. On the other hand we have a better health-care system than you. Anyway, that's not the point, you should come here. I'll buy you a beer, $13

Are all norwegians as funny as you?