Obama Presidency Discussion Thread

How would you vote in the 2008 US Presidential Election?

  • Obama-Biden (Democrat)

    Votes: 67 59.3%
  • McCain-Palin (Republican)

    Votes: 18 15.9%
  • Barr-Root (Libertarian)

    Votes: 14 12.4%
  • Nader-Gonzales (Independent-Ecology Party / Peace and Freedom Party)

    Votes: 5 4.4%
  • McKinney-Clemente (Green)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Baldwin-Castle (Constitution)

    Votes: 7 6.2%
  • Gurney-? (Car & Driver)

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    113
  • Poll closed .
You missed the important part of that. It is on-campus rallies. In other words, they are telling their employees not to partake in events at work. That is not limiting free speech, that is limiting stress on workplace relations between faculty members and faculty and students.

Imagine if a politically emotional student finds out that their professor supports another candidate/position and then has trouble concentrating in class because all they can think about is how much of an idiot they think the professor is.

Now, preventing students from doing it is a different story, although it helps cut back on distress among students. The way many campuses in Kentucky do it is that they have what is called the free speech area. It is typically a public area centrally located, but easily avoided, where rallies are allowed to be held by students. Typically the only faculty that attend are the faculty members in charge of the organizing group. This allows students to rally/protest but not disrupt other students who do not share their views. It frequently prevents confrontations that could get ugly.

After reading into the issue a little more, I understand. No argument from me; the (unenforced) ban's purpose is to keep on-campus confrontations low. The university is asking the faculty to keep their opinions private, not telling them not to have any.

However, if a student thinks the professor is an idiot simply because their political views are different, then the professor can't be blamed because the student is close-minded. I don't automatically assume McCain supporters are idiots just because I disagree with them. I'd be happy to discuss/debate them; college professors are usually quite intelligent and have good reasons for supporting candidates. People will always have different opinions, and it would be unacceptable if they were forced to hide those opinions because others are intolerant of their views. Which, as I think about it, is the reason the ban exists in the first place :grumpy:.
 
I don't automatically assume McCain supporters are idiots just because I disagree with them. I'd be happy to discuss/debate them...

Find me a Republican college professor, and we'll talk.

[edit] At a public university, that is.
 
Obama's first attack ad was quite underwhelming.

Hes never really been one for doing it, but its mostly to offset what McCain/Palin is dragging out of the ground recently. Simply put, the McCain campaign is trying to change the subject because they know that the longer we talk about the economy, the higher the probability will be that he will lose.

Oh, have I mentioned that I love Keith Olbermann?

 
I caught a glimpse of CNN today. Their first headline was McCain steps up attacks! I suppose they were referring to the connection between Obama and Ayers. The next headline was Astoroid heading for Earth! Well, God damn, what's with the sky is falling gloom and doom today?

Yessir. That is called "priming".

Find me a Republican college professor, and we'll talk.

[edit] At a public university, that is.

Professors can be pretty stupid, too. My history professor from my first semester is a neo-con. It's kind of funny because he was like Bush on the economy and foreign policy but he's also a Gore-shipper on the environment. He used to be a government media-censor or something like that for the agencies in Miami, so it's kind of typical that he's a big government guy in almost every area.

After I wrote my research paper, I would always find him reading around the sections I read in the library. Maybe I changed him. :lol:
 
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As I sit here and watch Joe Biden say "Bush = McCain" because of issues that Obama is just as bad over, it makes me wonder why McCain hasn't pulled the "Obama = Carter" card.

I also find Biden whining about McCain attack interesting when he turns around and attacks McCain for 20 minutes.
 
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I believe Republicans are a bit more respectful than just claiming Obama = Carter or Kerry. I find it hilarious that CNN would have headlines such as: "McCain steps up attacks!", as if Obama/Biden haven't been attacking and are above it all. It's just politics, man.
 
I believe Republicans are a bit more respectful than just claiming Obama = Carter or Kerry. I find it hilarious that CNN would have headlines such as: "McCain steps up attacks!", as if Obama/Biden haven't been attacking and are above it all. It's just politics, man.

Respectful? Thats a joke... apparently you missed all the talking down to Obama during the debate... Calling a Senator "That Guy" or patting him on the back like a dog instead of shaking hands is super respectful! :rolleyes:

Palin is even worse... But if Biden were to say anything to her it would be sexist 👎

Also I wasn't surprised the McCain=Bush comment happened... I mean McCain said it himself that he would be "Bush's third term", and McCain agreed with 90% of all the crap passed wile W. was in office. And no thats not a made up fact even though you conservative people will say it is.


And besides McCain has cancer and has only been given 2-3 years to live by doctors, and if and when that does happen Palin will become President. And with her experience... err.. inexperience with anything Government related... No 18 months as a Governor in one of the states least populated states in the US, and Mayor of a small Alaskan town doesn't really qualify as much.

I had a very conservative substitute in my US Gov't class a few weeks ago. He was trying to convince us to us that can vote to vote for McCain as he is a better candidate... I don't think I laughed so hard in school for a long time. He ignored a lot of true well known facts dismissing them as "Liberal Lies." It got pretty old pretty fast.

To be honest, I'm not truly fond of Obama/Biden either but seeing as no 3rd Party candidate (the ones NOT funded by the corporations and banks that can't make good decisions at all) will have a chance for awhile at being a contender. If I was born a few weeks earlier Obama would defiantly have my vote.
 
And besides McCain has cancer and has only been given 2-3 years to live by doctors

I heard he was already dead, and is actually a robotic look-alike who will fake his death once in office so that Palin can become president and appoint George Bush Vice President. Then Palin will retire.

...that's what I heard.
 
I heard he was already dead, and is actually a robotic look-alike who will fake his death once in office so that Palin can become president and appoint George Bush Vice President. Then Palin will retire.

...that's what I heard.

Judging by the way McCain was moving at the debates last night he is a robot :lol:.
 
I totally saw something that would make Brad happy yesterday.

A Celica was an 'Obama 08' Bumper-Sticker. In Melbourne....

It also has a "They put the 'Con', in 'Conversative'" or something along those lines sticker too on the other side.
 
My vote is for Obama, Because I do not like our current administration so any change will help at this point. I mean... Could it really be worse?!
 
My vote is for Obama, Because I do not like our current administration so any change will help at this point. I mean... Could it really be worse?!

Yes. Much worse. And don't put your faith in either the democrat or the republican, because people like them got us into this mess in the first place. This administration is looking more like the Hoover administration by the day (and they both suck! *rimshot*), but, likewise, the pain and suffering could very well spill into the next administration like it did with FDR. If these two bozos follow through with either one of their political agendas, you can count on it.

And, no offense, but that's a really stupid reason to vote for someone.
 
And, no offense, but that's a really stupid reason to vote for someone.

Good thing we live in a country which allows you to vote from whomever you wish, regardless of the reason.
 
Yep. And good thing I am free to advise people.

I never said you weren't, but one thing I've noticed about a lot of people in these opinion forms (and I'm not saying you do this, I'm speaking in general) is that if you don't agree with their view point on something you are instantly labelled as dumb. Some people like Obama and they have their reasons to vote for him, just as some people have reasons for voting for McCain, Barr, or whomever. I don't care who you vote for, as long as you have a reason for doing so that you agree with.

I didn't really think Picc's reason was dumb, we've had eight years of the Republicans and our country is in pretty bad shape so why not trying something else? I think a lot of people feel that way which is why I think Obama will win the election in end. People see McCain as Bush 2.0 and that scares many people.
 
I totally saw something that would make Brad happy yesterday.

A Celica was an 'Obama 08' Bumper-Sticker. In Melbourne....

Thats awesome! Its crazy how far our politics can reach in the world. When was the last time you saw a car in the US with a "Labour" sticker on the back?

===

RE: Reasons for Voting For Candidate X

Its understandable for some people to see party X as a direct correlation to problem A, and consequently, vote for party Y. Its the way politics have worked in this country for quite some time, and I doubt that for too many people that they would understand how politics work well enough to see that there are a lot of decisions that have been made both by Democrats and Republicans that have put us in this place.

Like Reagan said back in the 1980 election:

Ron
Are you better off than you were eight years ago?

The same methodology applies here. People will likely take the same template and use that to determine between McCain, Obama and Barr.
 
I totally saw something that would make Brad happy yesterday.

A Celica was an 'Obama 08' Bumper-Sticker. In Melbourne....

It also has a "They put the 'Con', in 'Conversative'" or something along those lines sticker too on the other side.

I saw a current-gen Chevy Suburban with a Obama sticker on it. I didn't know whether to vomit or to laugh.

How much Carbon Offset do you need for a Suburban?

6.20 metric tons

On a side note...

CBS: Obama's plane stinks.

The McCain campaign plane is better than Obama's, which is cramped, uncomfortable and smells terrible most of the time. Somehow the McCain folks manage to keep their charter clean, even where the press is seated.
 
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Good thing we live in a country which allows you to vote from whomever you wish, regardless of the reason.

I've talked to a lot of people about the election, and the feeling I get is many are voting for a candidate simply because he is, in their opinion, the lesser of two evils. I've never heard so many people complain about how much the two candidates talk around questions, take shots at each other, and preach self-righteously about themselves during the debates. Most voters I've talked about the election with don't really know what either candidate stands for or plans to do in office, yet they perceive them both as dirty and corrupt.

I agree, it's a good thing that we live in that kind of country, However, many won't vote for whoever will do the best job, but who they think will do the least-worst. It's a shame that those are the reasons they're basing their vote on.

/complaint

EDIT:
On another note...

I think this guy and I were separated at birth:

Seriously, though, he demonized the Democratic Party and implied that it was evil and "farms votes" from blacks. Very militant, and he completely ignored the wrongdoings of Republicans (for example, the utter failure of Katrina relief efforts and the layers of corruption revealed by it). He hardly talked about McCain in a good light, but instead spent ten minutes slamming Obama and the Democrats.

The nature of the video worries me, and the anger and arrogance he conveys contributes to why people consider the candidates evil. For once, please, I hope I see someone that talks about why a candidate is good instead of why the other one is a pig.

:grumpy:
 
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Indeed - negative campaigning is one thing, but continually bashing a candidate is tiresome. Although it is right to point out the weaknesses of the candidates, it's also important to recognise their qualities too... I watched the re-run of the debate - broadcast as live - last night, and I have to say that I was quite surprised at how well both candidates fielded most of the questions... in terms of who was more impressive, though, Obama took that by a country mile. Obama appeared composed and eloquent, and significantly, he appeared to address issues (specifically shortcomings and problems) more directly that McCain... for example, McCain seemed more willing to mention successes (specifically the 'success' of Bush's troop surge in Iraq) while Obama would point out the war in Iraq has been a costly diversion... also, in light of McCain's previous comments on the economy, his "I know how to fix it" claim seems somewhat unbelievable. Obama seemed, at the very least, to be more realistic. He also swatted McCain's facts and figures with concise and relevant retorts...

I heard he was already dead, and is actually a robotic look-alike who will fake his death once in office so that Palin can become president and appoint George Bush Vice President. Then Palin will retire.

...that's what I heard.
:lol:
 
To be honest, I'm not truly fond of Obama/Biden either but seeing as no 3rd Party candidate (the ones NOT funded by the corporations and banks that can't make good decisions at all) will have a chance for awhile at being a contender.
Are you placing a bet or voting for the person that represents you?

Take a look around this thread, you will see that a number of us are voting for 3rd party candidates despite knowing they won't win. The thing is that as long as people think like you no 3rd party candidate will ever be a contender. I know plenty of people who actually like a 3rd party candidate more than the two main guys, but they say that they are more afraid of either Obama or McCain actually getting into office and want to prevent that. Imagine if every voter who wasn't happy with either party actually did vote for a 3rd party. Sure they wouldn't win, but they would gain the number of votes necessary to grant them all the same access the two main parties have so that next time around they will be a contender.

I tell you this seeing that you cannot vote this year, so it is not as if I am trying to sway your vote, tell you that you are wrong, or call you dumb. I tell you then in hopes that when you are able to vote that you will look at that idea and perhaps begin to see it as I and others here do. Then when you have friends and acquaintances that have similar comments you may be able to make them see it that way as well. The faster that kind of thinking spreads among unhappy voters the quicker we can fix this system.

I look forward to the day when a change has to be made because a third-party candidate took enough electoral votes to prevent either of the two main parties from winning. I hope to see that in my lifetime, and as long as these two parties act like one man changing hats I will work toward that.

I don't care who you vote for, as long as you have a reason for doing so that you agree with.
The problem is that the reason he gave was fairly weak on substance, so it ring hollow and, by this time, old.

I didn't really think Picc's reason was dumb, we've had eight years of the Republicans and our country is in pretty bad shape so why not trying something else?
Because if you switch from one party to the other, based on what the current guy did you will be going back and forth forever. Democrats are leading Congress and none of the promises to change things that they all made to get there have even been attempted. Issues under Clinton's administration are often blamed on the Republican Congress by Democrats, why not accuse the Democratic Congress under Bush of, at a minimum, not even trying to fix the problems, and at a maximum, of helping create the problems.

I mean, Obama has been in the Senate since 2005 and he has not proposed anything, aside from talk, to actually try solving any of these problems. In his time as part of the Federal Government he has done nothing to show that he is actually trying to come up with a solution. And if you aren't a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem.

So no, dumb is not a term I would use for his position, but uninformed is.

Just remember guys, "The lesser of two evils is still evil."
 
I don't think you'll ever be able to make everyone happy on either side when it comes to picking a candidate for a given party. How many pissed-off Ron Paul and Mitt Romney voters are there for the Republicans? What about the Hillary Clinton and John Edwards voters for Obama? That, and they always have to capture that middle 30% of Independent voters this time around.

Perhaps it is just the state I'm in, but I'm hearing far fewer of the arguments over what is the "lesser of two evils," and instead clear calls for McCain or Obama outright. I don't think either of them have all of the answers, but certainly I prefer more of the answers given by Obama at this point.

As I've said before, third parties won't grab hold easily until we either change the way in which our system works, or we finally get enough pissed-off Independents who finally have the stones to stand together and vote for a third party. For that matter, there needs to be a third party candidate with a strong name and a large financial backing, and I fear that wouldn't happen until someone like Mike Bloomberg would get in the race (and I would vote for Bloomberg in a heartbeat, the only major thing he and I disagree on is Iraq).
 
Unfortunately, and it's exactly the same over here, a lot of folks think that a vote for a 3rd party is a wasted vote. Others are so ingrained to be either right wing or left wing that they'll vote that way no matter who is running, usually due to some kind of 'my family has always voted this way' mentality. It's probably the case that a 3rd party is highly unlikely to come to power, but in my eyes a strong swing in that direction isn't just a vote of no confidence to the party in power - it's also a message to the 'other side' that they'll not automatically get the disenfranchised votes either. It keeps both sides on their toes knowing that they might not necessarily get into power following a poor term by the other side.
 
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Perhaps it is just the state I'm in, but I'm hearing far fewer of the arguments over what is the "lesser of two evils," and instead clear calls for McCain or Obama outright.
You think Obama is using "Change we can believe in" er.... "Change We Need" (is that the one he's using this week, his change statement keeps changing) because he is winning a lot of people over on his sweet talk? You think people are calling McCain Bush 2.0 because they are twins or clones?

All you have to do is look at the rhetoric to see that a large amount is about not letting the other guy win. More people can say they like Obama because he isn't Bush (or something similar, like change) than can tell you how many bills he has authored while in the Senate.
 
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