Observations on suspension settings

[friedi]

Possibly, but PD have never mentioned changes like this in their updates. It would be highly dodgy if they were messing with handling/tuning effects and sneaking it into updates without telling anyone. But then they were quite coy about the whole museum vs save file bug so I guess it's possible.

More likely IMHO is that people have different interpretation of what they experience when they drive the settings.

-----------------

In other news, I suspect that the effect is also related to whether the chassis is refreshed or old. I just had a car go from "better with-nose up tune" to "better without nose-up tune" after a chassis refresh.

not really exact.... buy the premium BMW M3 and test normal ride heigh... then lower it.... and then put the nose up

its a new car so.... chassis is not really the point i would say

 

[shirakawaa]

When the rear is lowered, the static weight distribution of the car is altered. More weight to the back means that while cornering, under stabilized conditions, the car will handle more neutrally or be more oversteering (since the rear has more inertia), although on corner turn in it will pull inside less due to the heavier read end (which has more grip due to the added load).

Most FR sporty cars (not race cars) in the game should have an unloaded weight distribution of around 55:45 front to back.

On paper (or at least, in real life), just playing with ride height alone shouldn't transfer much weight around, and therefore alter the car balancement noticeably. It could be that for some reason this is somewhat exaggerated in GT5. But also remember than on online races there is about a 75 Kg added weight to the rear axle on every car due to the fuel load, which lowers it further, increasing the rear weight load in addition to the weight itself. This is why on online races cars are so twitchy in my opinion.

 

[chuyler1]

Ugh, don't get me started on the online vs offline physics. It drives me nuts that I can't use practice mode to dial in a car for online racing.

 

[friedi]

Ugh, don't get me started on the online vs offline physics. It drives me nuts that I can't use practice mode to dial in a car for online racing.

my offline tune for the CSL works online really nice reach the same time @ deepforest

1.11.7xx online and offline

 

[chuyler1]

What tires? I never have much trouble with racing tires, but sports tires are hit or miss.

 

[Adrenaline]

Ever since this 'backwards' claim came out, my first question was:
I wonder if it's only backwards offline, and that's why the online physics feel so different.

Think about offline mode having the backwards tuning inputs, but online they were actually being input correctly.

*I have no idea if this is true or not.

 

[Basilea]

Ever since this 'backwards' claim came out, my first question was:
What does backwards mean? Front = rear? Spring rate high = soft? Both?

It really would be helpful if Kaz would give a statement on it! And/or it is getting fixed if there really is something/somewhere maybe possibly wrong or not... since it came up a lot of people are unsure on what to do and how to handle it!

I for myself just go with whether a car feels better or not, compared to an other setting! I can do this quite easy, because I'm not into cars and I don't know exactly what changing a setting would do in real life. Meaning, I probably have a different approach on how to tune a car, than someone that is working on real life race cars...

 

[dr_slump]

Ever since this 'backwards' claim came out, my first question was:
I wonder if it's only backwards offline, and that's why the online physics feel so different.

Think about offline mode having the backwards tuning inputs, but online they were actually being input correctly.

*I have no idea if this is true or not.

Well, I've tested some offline tunes with lower rear ride height than front and in the most cases it doesn't work online. An equal ride height or even a lower front was mostly a big improvement.

 

[frankygt-r]

i was thinking that it was a traslation error, now i understand that it is a bug. the game said that if you reduce front heigt your car will understeer. wrong! if you have an understeering car you must reduce front heigt to make the car not understeer

 

[shirakawaa]

i was thinking that it was a traslation error, now i understand that it is a bug. the game said that if you reduce front heigt your car will understeer. wrong! if you have an understeering car you must reduce front heigt to make the car not understeer

However, if you think at how rear engined cars behave (understeer at corner entry due to lack of weight, thus traction, on front wheels, oversteer at corner exit due to the rear inertia), saying that reducing the front ride height (and thus moving slightly the weight distribution to the front) increases understeer is not entirely wrong.

 

[Gridpoint]

Rightsey-Loosey, Lefty-Tightey? omg, no-wonder this game feels good in the Southern Hemisphere?! The manual says that MINOR ADJUSTMENTS make profound differences, but nothing about Counter-Intuition...
-Gridsley

 

[Motor City Hami]

thus moving slightly the weight distribution to the front

Raising or lowering the ride height does NOT re-distribute weight! That is a myth. Put a car on a set of scales and tell us what percentage of weight you were able to move from one axle to the other at full high on one end and full low on the other. Very, very, very small percent shifts in weight. The bigger affect on the car's handling is what ride height does to roll-center. It is not clear to me how or if they have programmed roll center into the game.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Myth? 4-Real? If so small it's negligible, how is it a "Myth"? Your opinion is that it's negligible.

I agree. Especially only a few mm. It does seem to have a big impact for some people.

 

[OwensRacing]

Raising or lowering the ride height does NOT re-distribute weight! That is a myth. Put a car on a set of scales and tell us what percentage of weight you were able to move from one axle to the other at full high on one end and full low on the other. Very, very, very small percent shifts in weight. The bigger affect on the car's handling is what ride height does to roll-center. It is not clear to me how or if they have programmed roll center into the game.

My car does not corner static dude! It's relative roll center and how weight is distributed while moving not sitting on scales.

Roll center is relative CG. This is not hard to guess. A true chassis engineer can find CG fairly close with some dimensions and a set of scales.

 

[dr_slump]

My car does not corner static dude! It's relative roll center and how weight is distributed while moving not sitting on scales.


Wow just wow.

Look: reverse the word "wow" and you get "wow"
.....WOW!

(Just a joke!)

 

[OwensRacing]

Look: reverse the word "wow" and you get "wow" WOW!

Edit that. I miss read his post. He continued onto to roll center. I thought he was talking how a ride height effects a car static. I was like SERIOUSLY???


My mistake.

 

[dr_slump]

Edit that. I miss read his post. He continued onto to roll center. I thought he was talking how a ride height effects a car static. I was like SERIOUSLY???


My mistake.

No, I'm sorry!
It wasn't an offense against you. Just a joke!

Sorry for misunderstanding. (Oh and I edited it)

 

[OwensRacing]

It was me reading half a post and responding. Totally my fault.

Thanks for understanding. Mature acting members are awesome to deal with when one makes mistakes.


And your play on Wow was funny indeed. It was my quote I wished you to edit.

 

[iamjajo]

Some of the material I've read about setting up SCCA cars discusses not only where the CG is relative to the axles, but CG height above ground level (where the tires touch the road surface.

Changing the ride height could affect the CG height and thus change the mechanics of weight transfer.

 

[chuyler1]

I dont think it plays into the physics. A bunch of us got owned by a vw samba bus at autumn ring on vintage 400pp night.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I dont think it plays into the physics. A bunch of us got owned by a vw samba bus at autumn ring on vintage 400pp night.

Awesome, must of been upsetting and impressive at the sane time.

 

[Basilea]

Someone just wrote that weight balance affects PP, is that true? Would be good, but how? Front lower the PP and rear higher?

 

[Adrenaline]

Someone just wrote that weight balance affects PP, is that true? Would be good, but how? Front lower the PP and rear higher?

I have heard this before, a few weeks ago I believe, where someone claimed that moving only the ballast position, changed their PP by 1. I haven't seen it for myself, so I can't confirm nor deny. But honestly I think it's a nice feature. Consider running 2 cars, with the same weight and power, but one car has a 50/50 weight distribution, and the other with a 30/70 (Let's say a Rear Engine Car). Clearly you wouldn't expect them to both handle as well, so in my head, it makes sense. But I definitely didn't expect GT5 to have taken that into account.
Has anyone compared the PP of their Yellow Bird, to a car with the same power/weight specs? I'd be curious.

Either way, it really doesn't change anything. You're always going to want to put the ballast in the position that gives the best handling, because that will have far more benefits than the 1PP you could cut by putting it somewhere else.

 

[dr_slump]

I have heard this before, a few weeks ago I believe, where someone claimed that moving only the ballast position, changed their PP by 1. I haven't seen it for myself, so I can't confirm nor deny. But honestly I think it's a nice feature. Consider running 2 cars, with the same weight and power, but one car has a 50/50 weight distribution, and the other with a 30/70 (Let's say a Rear Engine Car). Clearly you wouldn't expect them to both handle as well, so in my head, it makes sense. But I definitely didn't expect GT5 to have taken that into account.

Yes the distribution changes the PP sometimes. But not on every car! I think the Chapparal 2J is an example....
I remember that the difference is way more than just 1 PP (5-10PP!).

 

[chuyler1]

I've seen it too. I've added weight to match a PP. Then I leave the ballast screen and the car is 1 pp over.

I can understand how it should affect PP...but with that argument, shouldn't a custom tranny, clutch, flywheel, and dialed in suspension affect PP as well?

 

[OwensRacing]

Something I typed about recently relative to this thread. Also thank you all for discovering this.

Fwiw the suspension thread obviate about ride ht being swapped is very insightful. Read it and applied to a fwd car I use in a league. Went from front rake where in real life would give me plenty of steering and loose rear. However it plowed and plowed. So this past week decided to try the swapped theory. (most cars I tune f and r ride the same to avoid the theory)
Once I swapped the and made he front up and the rear down. In real world this gonna push. Head on track and first turn it turned and I had steering. Enough to aping a fwd out!!!!! Omg are serious I thought.




Now my question to you guys is:

Did the update solve this problem?

 

[CSLACR]

I've seen it too. I've added weight to match a PP. Then I leave the ballast screen and the car is 1 pp over.

I can understand how it should affect PP...but with that argument, shouldn't a custom tranny, clutch, flywheel, and dialed in suspension affect PP as well?

Yes, but the game doesn't recognize suspension, drivetrain, or transmission upgrades, which is why I expect to never see them in replays, I'm just hoping for tires, hp and weight, that'd be nice, so every GT mode WRS isn't "max power without boost", etc.

 

[chuyler1]

oh man, I would love to see parts and tuning settings as part of a replay. Even if it were just my own vehicle so i could remember what settings I used.

 

[OwensRacing]

Did the update resolve the reversed ride ht issues?

 

[Adrenaline]

No ones even proved to me that it's reversed yet.
And based on my Enzo testing today, it's the same as it was yesterday.