Official Ferrari Challenge Thread

[Hun200kmh]

I see ferraripro's thread was locked and his post edited because he was advertising FC's official forum. Can anyone that is not a dev of this game or isn't in any way connected to system3 or Eutechnix tell me the web adress of this "official forum"? If you feel for some reason that you shouldn't post it here, please PM me. Thanks!

 

[Sil3nc3r-]

I see ferraripro's thread was locked and his post edited because he was advertising FC's official forum. Can anyone that is not a dev of this game or isn't in any way connected to system3 or Eutechnix tell me the web adress of this "official forum"? If you feel for some reason that you shouldn't post it here, please PM me. Thanks!

+1

Sil

 

[The--Beast]

http://forums.eutechnyx.com/index.php#2

 

[myke6699]

Sorry I've been away from this forum for a little while.

IMO a Comparison between Forza and FC goes a bit like this.

graphics

Forza...........7/10
FC...............5/10

physics

Forza...........7/10
FC...............9/10

AI,


Not sure, I play mainly online, but my limited pre patch experiece would rate the AI higher on Forza than FC, don't know now it's post patch.

wheel control


Forza.............4/10, MS Wheel and Logitech Drive FX
FC.................9/10, Logitech Driving Force Pro

online

Forza.............8/10
FC.................3/10


I enjoy both games, but the simple litmus test is to think.

"Would I be happy if I bought the console specifically for the game?"

Forza2.........................Yes...................I did and I am.
Ferrari Challenge.............No....................I only bought the game because I had a free PS3 sitting doing nothing, GT5P was a rubbish experience so I put a lot of hope in FC, it's OK, but I don't believe it'd be worth the outlay for a console just to play it.

Admittedly I'm no fan of FC physics especially in regards to the wheel FF. Because of that I would placed its physics on par with Forza 2 (G25 on FC, MS wheel on Forza 2). I just can't stand the strong FF yet lacking anything other information (suspension, wheel/pavement). Here's my take but with GT5P added to the list:

Graphics:

Forza 2: 7/10 (720p and jaggies should not mix and more time could've been spent on car modelling but the other element- skid mark, 3d trackside objects almost make up for what it lacks)

FC: 6/10 (despite the 1080p screen, it was hardly worth the effort and the bright colours, rudimentary car modeling and weird colour choice for pavement renounce the fact that this is a driving/racing sim.

GT5P: 9/10 (Although lacks the last bit of refinement: lacks decent AA despite the best attempt at full HD graphics. The track may seem dull to some but the car modeling is second to none)

Physics:

Forza 2:: 7/10 (Although it hardly improves over the already decent Forza 1, the physics of Forza until recently was the pinnacle of console racing sim. However, recent re-visit to this game proves that it driving physics especially ith wheel might err closer towards the arcade despite being the only console game so far with the most comprehensive damage modeling)

FC: 6/10 (FC physics is probably the most polarizing and perplexing amongst all the console racer- although GRID and to some extent GT5P comes close- you either love it or in my case, confused and after many attempts to like it, now hates it with full fervour. The strength of the FF is plentiful but be prepared to deal with dead-zone and instead of high, mid, low, I wish it comes with a slider to control the Wheel strength and sensitivity. Any distractions while playing will not do: this sim needs all your attention which could be a welcoming change. In the end, it never whispers let alone scream that I'm driving a Ferrari and that because of that it fails in its intention)

GT5P: 8.5/10 (The latest spec III takes GT5P closer to what I normally find on PC sim. The tire grips has improved and with it so has the steering- no longer is it as vague as it was in Spec I- now you feel the contact between the wheel and the pavement, the lateral weight transfer, the suspension. Most production cars still feel somewhat clinical (as they should) but the tuned vehicle has been given a few doses of performance enhancement. With no doubt this is the new king (or reclaiming) of console car physics)

I actually bought both the 360 and PS 3 for Forza 2 and GT5P respectively. Both paid dividends accordingly.

 

[Biggles]

IMO the FFB is what makes FC interesting.

Switching back to GT5P after playing FC for a while, GT5P seems insipid in comparison: although the physics in GT5P are impressively detailed, because of the very light FFB there is no "feel" to the steering even during heavy cornering. The physics in FC may be less detailed than in GT5P - there are less subtleties of input & response IMO - but the overall "feel" is more convincing, you can feel the weight of the car actually shifting around as you corner.

The ideal thing would obviously be to have the range of adjustability of GRID, so that the FFB could be set-up to each person's preference.

I've learned to live with the "dead-zone" in FC's FFB. It's definitely a bit of an issue, but the extra level of concentration it neccesitates & uncertainty it introduces, I'm prepared to look at as being an equivalent of the degree of unpredictability & danger in driving a car hard IRL.

In summary: what we need is the graphics & physics of GT5P, weight transfer feel & FFB strength of FC (with the adjustability of GRID), the damage & replay options of GRID, & the online functionality Forza 2.

That's not too much to ask for, is it?

 

[Hun200kmh]

No, too much to ask would be the smell of burning rubber. Anything that can be done (and we know it can) is to be asked ... and hopefully delivered

 

[myke6699]

IMO the FFB is what makes FC interesting.

Switching back to GT5P after playing FC for a while, GT5P seems insipid in comparison: although the physics in GT5P are impressively detailed, because of the very light FFB there is no "feel" to the steering even during heavy cornering. The physics in FC may be less detailed than in GT5P - there are less subtleties of input & response IMO - but the overall "feel" is more convincing, you can feel the weight of the car actually shifting around as you corner.

The ideal thing would obviously be to have the range of adjustability of GRID, so that the FFB could be set-up to each person's preference.

I've learned to live with the "dead-zone" in FC's FFB. It's definitely a bit of an issue, but the extra level of concentration it neccesitates & uncertainty it introduces, I'm prepared to look at as being an equivalent of the degree of unpredictability & danger in driving a car hard IRL.

In summary: what we need is the graphics & physics of GT5P, weight transfer feel & FFB strength of FC (with the adjustability of GRID), the damage & replay options of GRID, & the online functionality Forza 2.

That's not too much to ask for, is it?

What I found out especially with the recent update to GT5P is that you need to keep your wheel connection setting to 1 .Do this by relegating your controller Dualshock or Sixaxis controller setting to 2, which would then render the DS3 or sixaxis unuseable for any functions in GT5P but you can use the equivalent buttons on you wheel/pedal combo. Failing to do this result in lower FFB power to the wheel which might explain why you would find the PPB in GT5P to be "insipid".

 

[Biggles]

What I found out especially with the recent update to GT5P is that you need to keep your wheel connection setting to 1 .Do this by relegating your controller Dualshock or Sixaxis controller setting to 2, which would then render the DS3 or sixaxis unuseable for any functions in GT5P but you can use the equivalent buttons on you wheel/pedal combo. Failing to do this result in lower FFB power to the wheel which might explain why you would find the PPB in GT5P to be "insipid".

???

I've no idea what this means, but I will give it a try...

 

[myke6699]

???

I've no idea what this means, but I will give it a try...

The PS3 allows 4 controllers connected simultaneously. Most of the time the DS3 or sixaxis is by default the first controller. It would also help if you connect your wheel to the first USB although this doesn't guaratee the it will be first. The only way to change it is to press the PS key (the middle round button on your controller). Since most Logitech wheel (except the new DFGT) does not have one, the only way to do this (if you happen to have only 2- wheel and gamepad) is to use the gamepad PS button to access the setting option. This is when you change your controller setting to # 2 (thus making the wheel #1). You can see on the controller (next to the USB connection) if it is indeed #2 (it should be highlighted red).
It's only in the current Spec III that I found that if you have the wheel relegated to #2 and lower, the FFB power actually suffers. I don't know why either but give it try.
Alhough I don't drive a Ferrari but I do own an Acura NSX in real life and I can honestly say that with the FFB setting of 8, the GT5P comes really close of replicating what the actual vehicle steering is like (quick and responsive) when using the stock preformance tires. I doubt that the F430 steering is that much heavier than most performance car. But in FC, even in medium the steering felt way too heavy for anything else but a pickup truck. And when I set it to low, the huge deadzone makes it anything but useable but enough about that already.

 

[MustangSVT]

...

I actually bought both the 360 and PS 3 for Forza 2 and GT5P respectively. Both paid dividends accordingly.

Same here. In my case, I actually ended up playing F1:CE more for PS3 than GT5 (even though I got PS3 with GT5P being the only reason really).

 

[Biggles]

OK, myke: I always have my G25 connected to the No.1 USB port (which, if I'm understanding you correctly, is your point).

Like you, I don't own a Ferrari, & I'm not sure my 2006 Toyota Sienna would fall in quite the same performance category. In any case, I'm not sure that GT5P attempts to clearly differentiate between the FFB "feel" (as opposed to the "physics") of the different cars it models.

However, I'm pretty sure that in general the FFB "feel" in GT5P is too light. It may feel accurate at lower speeds in "everyday" driving, but I believe that under the very aggressive high-speed cornering that occurs in the game (& IRL racing) there should be much more "weight" behind the wheel (as I have never raced IRL, I admit that this is speculation on my part).

The FFB in FC may not be accurate either (& the "dead-zone" effect is a definite problem), but I suspect it may be closer to the RL feel of throwing a car around a race track than the rather disconnected feel of GT5P. I still think that overall GT5P has more detailed & accurate physics, but one of the things that makes FC fun IMO, is "feeling" the weight of the car shift as you swing from one turn into the next - particularly on a down-hill corner like at Spa or Mugello.

 

[myke6699]

OK, myke: I always have my G25 connected to the No.1 USB port (which, if I'm understanding you correctly, is your point).

Like you, I don't own a Ferrari, & I'm not sure my 2006 Toyota Sienna would fall in quite the same performance category. In any case, I'm not sure that GT5P attempts to clearly differentiate between the FFB "feel" (as opposed to the "physics") of the different cars it models.

However, I'm pretty sure that in general the FFB "feel" in GT5P is too light. It may feel accurate at lower speeds in "everyday" driving, but I believe that under the very aggressive high-speed cornering that occurs in the game (& IRL racing) there should be much more "weight" behind the wheel (as I have never raced IRL, I admit that this is speculation on my part).

The FFB in FC may not be accurate either (& the "dead-zone" effect is a definite problem), but I suspect it may be closer to the RL feel of throwing a car around a race track than the rather disconnected feel of GT5P. I still think that overall GT5P has more detailed & accurate physics, but one of the things that makes FC fun IMO, is "feeling" the weight of the car shift as you swing from one turn into the next - particularly on a down-hill corner like at Spa or Mugello.

Again when you say that GT5P fels disconnected, makes me wonder if we're playing the same game. When GT5P was first release (Spec I), I would agree that most of the time especially when using lower grip tires, the steering was rather vague. With this update, even N1 tires when used within its speed limit, you still feel the "road". Ferrari F430, even the Scuderia should and always have a "light but precise" steering. In FC, precise and light do not come to my mind.
The sense of weight that you get from FC is because of the heavy FFB and not because of actual physics implementation. In GT5P, the feeling of weight is apart of the physics and it's especially helpful when you're sliding in and out of corners.
Like I've said, performance cars like Ferrari, Porsche or even my NSX, steering is part and parcel of what the car is all about. And the steering should always feel mechanical (despite the fact that the NSX is electronic). I'm trying hard to understand the praise that many including yourself, have given to FC. Despite the fact that I can replicate your setup yet everytime I have this game on my PS3, it doesn't even try to fool me into believeing that I'm driving a Ferrari.
I did for awhile played FC with DS3 controller and in many ways this was more enjoyable than with the G25. In the end I would say that FC was despite its intent is an arcade game and while it supports wheels like the G25, that was never implemented properly. While it doesn't nullify those who happen to like the game, it is an acquired taste.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I just picked up the game a few days ago. Quite the fun, albeit feature-light, experience.

I have to agree with Mike on the physics/FFB front. I have also raced/drifted IRL, and can attest to the differences. The FFB in FC is very heavy (although not as heavy as I was expecting from all the talk I've heard), and there is a definite deadzone (although setting everything to "high" almost gets rid of it).

If I had to compare the experience to anything, I would say it feels like a combination of Project Gotham Racing 3/4 (albeit with full 900 degree support), and Gran turismo 4 (No, not GT5). The physics have a very "Simcade" feel to them. Certain circumstances feel as they should, but most of the time I find myself fighting the wheel when I shouldn't be. Losing traction doesn't feel quite right. The weight transfer and wheel correction seems a bit delayed.

All in all, I can easily say GT5 has the superior physics engine in terms of realism. Yes, the FFB is a bit too light, but I'll take a little lightness any day over lack of precision.

That being said, I have to say FC is one of the most fun "Simcades" I've played in years. If you don't go into it expecting some perfect Ferrari simulator, you'll have a blast.

 

[Mekanaizer]

The deadzone issues (and others) with the G25 (and others) will be fixed tomorrow (monday 27th), this for the US gamers. Their path include some fixes not yet available for the EUR gamers.
We (EUR gamers) will later receive this later fixes.

Think on this fixes as a gift for the time US gamers had to wait for it.

 

[Biggles]

I don't think I'm disagreeing with myke:

The physics in GT5P are more accurate, detailed & precise than in FC, which makes the driving more "complex". IMO the FFB is too light, however, which gives the driving a bit of a disconnected, "unphysical" feel. This could be easily corrected by introducing an option to increase the level of FFB.

The physics in FC are simplified & - due to the "dead-zone" - imprecise. I would say that they lean more towards "sim" than "arcade", but the responses of the car seem a bit unrealistic & "arbitrary" at times & the control too easy. Once you get really familiar with the tracks & are able to push the car hard through the corners, I think the FFB gives a sense of the weight-transfer that is much more convincing than the rather bland feel of GT5P (it reminds me a bit of a more robust version of Enthusia). If they fix the dead-zone problem, so that you can drive with "medium" or "light" FFB, it will be great.

Honestly, if we had the full GT5 - or even a bunch of new tracks for GT5P - I probably wouldn't bother with FC. Until that happens, FC offers a fun, reasonably realistic & challenging drive around some great tracks (especially Mugello, Spa & Mont Tremblant). I'm hoping to be able to organize some online events with you guys soon - that should be fun... 👍