Official GT Blog: "Pit Stop" by Polyphony Digital

[jimipitbull]

He's not talking about GT2. He's talking about GT5. But this attitude that any wrongdoings are immediately null-and-void as soon as the next game comes out sure is an interesting one; so does that mean if PD just quietly swept incomplete GT6 under the rug in six months with a bright shiny GT7 on PS4, there'd be no harm nor foul?

Complete/incomplete depends on your perspective. With better physics, more cars and more tracks than previous titles, it's no stretch to say GT6 is the most complete GT so far.

All this talk of harm and foul, it reminds me of Santa Claus and batteries not included.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Complete/incomplete depends on your perspective.

You're right, it does: typically when I buy something with the promise of features coming to it at a later date, and those features don't show up, then it is incomplete.

To take the Santa comparison a step further; it'd be like those toys being advertised as having batteries sent out a bit after the purchase, only to never show.

 

[Imari]

Complete/incomplete depends on your perspective. With better physics, more cars and more tracks than previous titles, it's no stretch to say GT6 is the most complete GT so far.

Only if you view completeness as some sort of sliding scale.

Complete to me is that it has all the parts that it was supposed to come with. It either does or it doesn't. GT6 clearly doesn't, even by Polyphony's own admission.

Complete to you seems to mean something like "the best expression of Kazunori Yamauchi's vision for Gran Turismo", or "the best Gran Turismo". Which is debatably true, there's a lot to like about GT6, particularly stuff that has needed improving for some time. But I don't see how you can argue that it's complete when there's obviously stuff missing, and the developers themselves are well aware that there's stuff missing. And it's not like the stuff missing is little bits and pieces either, these are major features which for some people could well have been significant in the choice to buy.

It's not really like batteries not included, because that's something a user could address themselves for a small fee. Yeah, it would be a bit of an inconvenience, but that's all it would be. What's missing from GT6 is not something that the user can replace from the aftermarket or fix themselves, they're reliant on Polyphony delivering the product that they advertised.

Yes, there's such a thing as giving them time to do their job and being patient. But I agree with @SlipZtrEm that the option to simply stop GT6 without adding those features shouldn't exist. If Polyphony decide to move on to GT7 without fulfilling their obligations to the GT6 buyers, I think compensation needs to be talked about. Dumping GT6 would be an enormous violation of the trust that the consumer has placed in Polyphony. That's not right.

You might feel that you got your money's worth out of GT6 as it is, but surely you can understand that people who bought the game because of the features that we don't have yet would feel completely ripped off if those features were to never arrive.

 

[jimipitbull]

You might feel that you got your money's worth out of GT6 as it is, but surely you can understand that people who bought the game because of the features that we don't have yet would feel completely ripped off if those features were to never arrive.

If by understand you mean that I see it posted numerous times a day across multiple threads and news articles, then yes, I understand.

Place more emphasis on the if. GT5 was supported for what, 3+ years, and I can't see GT7 releasing for another 12 months. There is nothing outside of this thread to suggest PD is dumping GT6. Quite the opposite actually, if the news page is anything to go by.

 

[Imari]

If by understand you mean that I see it posted numerous times a day across multiple threads and news articles, then yes, I understand.

No, but understand I mean comprehend why someone might feel that way.

I can understand why people might be satisfied with GT6. I'm not myself, but there's a lot of good to the game and I can see how people to who those parts are very important would be entirely satisfied with GT6.

You don't seem to be able to comprehend why someone might be less satisfied with GT6 than you. It's called empathy, and it's useful.

Place more emphasis on the if. GT5 was supported for what, 3+ years, and I can't see GT7 releasing for another 12 months. There is nothing outside of this thread to suggest PD is dumping GT6. Quite the opposite actually, if the news page is anything to go by.

You're quite right.

However, there's reasonable doubt that the features are going to be out within 12 months. It seems impossible for the VGTs to turn up within the stated amount of time (it seems impossible for them to turn up even by the end of next year, at the rate they're going). We've been hearing that the course maker is near complete since before release, and I'm not sure I've heard anything about B Spec or the rest of the community features.

The difference with GT5 was that it included all it's advertised features within a very short time after release (bar things that never turned up, like matchmaking). Almost everything that was included in the support of GT5 was over and above what customers had been advertised when they bought GT5.

At some point, they're going to have to move a significant proportion of their staff on to GT7, if they haven't already done so. Thanks to Polyphony's somewhat less than wonderful public communications, the consumers have little idea to what extent this has already happened or is planned to happen, and what is planned to happen with the GT6 features for which they paid.

I don't think it's odd that after 12 months, people are starting to get a little uncomfortable and question whether the features are actually going to come. I have no doubt that Polyphony intended to provide everything they said they would, but this may come to another situation where it goes on too long and Sony puts their foot down.

It's fine for people like you who are willing to trust that Polyphony will deliver everything that they've said. But exercise your new-found empathy to understand why some people might not be willing to believe that without doubts. It's not even a matter of taking Polyphony at their word, they've been deliberately very vague recently about what we can expect. "Major updates still to come" could be just about anything, and there's still the danger of Polyphony having their hand forced.

 

[jimipitbull]

You don't seem to be able to comprehend why someone might be less satisfied with GT6 than you. It's called empathy, and it's useful.

Empathy relates to emotion, satisfaction is a decision.

Comprehended. (verb)

 

[Imari]

Empathy relates to emotion, satisfaction is a decision.

Comprehended. (verb)

Ah, so you don't think that being satisfied is an emotional state. Apparently for you, it's something that you just choose to be.

Good for you. Understand that not all people will agree. For many, satisfaction is a state of being. If you're not satisfied, then telling yourself that you are doesn't help, any more than telling yourself you're not hungry helps you not feel hungry.

Hence the need for empathy to be able to recognise the state of other beings, who may not feel the same as you.

Hence why I don't think you've comprehended a single thing that I've said.

 

[jimipitbull]

Ah, so you don't think that being satisfied is an emotional state. Apparently for you, it's something that you just choose to be.

Good for you. Understand that not all people will agree. For many, satisfaction is a state of being. If you're not satisfied, then telling yourself that you are doesn't help, any more than telling yourself you're not hungry helps you not feel hungry.

Hence the need for empathy to be able to recognise the state of other beings, who may not feel the same as you.

Hence why I don't think you've comprehended a single thing that I've said.

It's somewhat ironic that you consider a differing view as a comprehension issue.

-I have no empathy for people with first world problems ie. people not satisfied with a game.
-I do have empathy for people that are actually suffering - hunger, poverty, abuse etc.

Let me know if you need this illustrated further.

 

[Imari]

It's somewhat ironic that you consider a differing view as a comprehension issue.

-I have no empathy for people with first world problems ie. people not satisfied with a game.
-I do have empathy for people that are actually suffering - hunger, poverty, abuse etc.

Let me know if you need this illustrated further.

Why does the level of dissatisfaction affect your sense of empathy so strongly, assuming that that's the distinction you're drawing between starvation and poor customer service?

Or is it simply related to what you see as justifiable and not justifiable? In which case you're not empathising, you're projecting your values onto other people's feelings.

Let me ask you this: Have you ever bought anything with which you weren't fully satisfied? What was it, how did you feel, and what did you do about it? You live in the first world, or at least your profile says you do.

 

[trustjab]

Regarding gt6 being incomplete, I can understand both sides of the argument. No, not every feature is in the game. But if the game is still being worked on, can we say its incomplete if its not yet 'completely done'?

 

[1241Penguin]

Regarding gt6 being incomplete, I can understand both sides of the argument. No, not every feature is in the game. But if the game is still being worked on, can we say its incomplete if its not yet 'completely done'?

Yes, never mind the fact that it was released for sale.

But good job reaffirming the argument that GT6 is incomplete.

 

[jimipitbull]

Why does the level of dissatisfaction affect your sense of empathy so strongly, assuming that that's the distinction you're drawing between starvation and poor customer service?

You rate starvation as a level of dissatisfaction, and you are trying to lecture me on empathy?

Or is it simply related to what you see as justifiable and not justifiable? In which case you're not empathising, you're projecting your values onto other people's feelings.

I like how you answered your own question by projecting your values. Do you watch many infomercials?

Let me ask you this: Have you ever bought anything with which you weren't fully satisfied? What was it, how did you feel, and what did you do about it? You live in the first world, or at least your profile says you do.

Yes. A carton of Melbourne Bitter. Felt worse than XXXX. My shout boys, dig in.

 

[Imari]

Regarding gt6 being incomplete, I can understand both sides of the argument. No, not every feature is in the game. But if the game is still being worked on, can we say its incomplete if its not yet 'completely done'?

Sure can. It's incomplete until it's completed.

If you're just going to wait until everything is finished before labelling it complete, you'd never use the word incomplete. You'd always just wait. The word would be completely meaningless.

There's nothing innately wrong with being incomplete, it's just an accurate description of the state the game is in right now.

You rate starvation as a level of dissatisfaction, and you are trying to lecture me on empathy?



I like how you answered your own question by projecting your values. Do you watch many infomercials?



Yes. A carton of Melbourne Bitter. Felt worse than XXXX. My shout boys, dig in.

Oh I see. You're trolling rather than attempting to have an actual discussion. My bad.

 

[HKS racer]

It's somewhat ironic that you consider a differing view as a comprehension issue.

-I have no empathy for people with first world problems ie. people not satisfied with a game.
-I do have empathy for people that are actually suffering - hunger, poverty, abuse etc.

Let me know if you need this illustrated further.

That's one brilliant post indeed, when they give you Nobel award? You truly deserve it.
Let's call this forum www.worldproblemsplanet.net.
Send an PM to admins they'll change web adress in a couple of minutes.

 

[jimipitbull]

Oh I see. You're trolling rather than attempting to have an actual discussion. My bad.

The discussion ended when you started answering your own questions.

 

[Imari]

The discussion ended when you started answering your own questions.

I didn't answer my own question. I asked whether your level of empathy was effected by the severity of the issue, or simply whether you judged it justifiable or not. You dodged answering like a champ. If you think I answered, you'll have no problem pointing out what my answer was, because I'm not seeing it.

Just as you dodged answering whether you had ever bought something dissatisfactory with a throwaway dig at a random beer. Or is that your actual answer? You think it's OK to be dissatisfied with bad beer, but not with a game?

 

[jimipitbull]

You think it's OK to be dissatisfied with bad beer, but not with a game?

It's OK to be dissatisfied with a game, bad beer, whatever. Not feeling empathetic toward that dissatisfaction is also OK.

 

[mister dog]

Seeing half of their 🤬 wasn't finished yet when they released GT6 (ofcourse they released in time for xmas so the punters would have it below their trees...), they should have sold the game at 30 bucks and added all those features later on like Simbin or other pc devs do.

Charging full price and then not delivering on what you promised almost a year later is unacceptable. I was surprised they actually managed to release a new GT without us having to wait for 5 years, now i know why...

 

[Imari]

Seeing half of their 🤬 wasn't finished yet when they released GT6 (ofcourse they released in time for xmas so the punters would have it below their trees...), they should have sold the game at 30 bucks and added all those features later on like Simbin or other pc devs do.

Charging full price and then not delivering on what you promised almost a year later is unacceptable. I was surprised they actually managed to release a new GT without us having to wait for 5 years, now i know why...

The fair thing to do would have been to sell it at cut price as you say, and then sell major features as expansion packs later on. That way they take the money as they deliver the features, instead of taking the money up front.

Of course, they didn't do that because it would mean markedly reduced revenues, because GT6: The Base Game would have looked pretty unappealing sitting next to GT5.

 

[mister dog]

The fair thing to do would have been to sell it at cut price as you say, and then sell major features as expansion packs later on. That way they take the money as they deliver the features, instead of taking the money up front.

Of course, they didn't do that because it would mean markedly reduced revenues, because GT6: The Base Game would have looked pretty unappealing sitting next to GT5.

Indeed; to me it seems the updated features that they could manage from 5 to 6 are upgraded physics, more circuits, upgraded menus and a drive on the bloody moon. Not worth 60 bucks if you ask me especially seeing none of the series flaws were corrected yet again.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

It would seem to me that GT6 isn't doing as bad as some like to suggest.

Clearly there are features yet to be introduced.
The simple fact it's on their website stating 4 more features will be patched in says it's 'incomplete'.

But that fact alone doesn't necessarily make GT6 an inferior product compared to GT5 as some are suggesting.

Hell, you had to wait for GT5 Spec 2 even before DLC was introduced before you had the privilege of spending money to purchase DLC like Spa.

GT6 had better graphics, better physics, better sounds (yep, I went there), better UI, and a heap more content than GT5.
There's at least 150 cars never before in the GT series in GT6, with 2 on the near horizon and many more still to come.
There's 11 tracks added, including some major iconic tracks for people all around the world.
And I'm not even bothering with the 80's versions.
We've had Senna, GT Academy in-game, Sierra, Goodwood, RedBulls, Quick Match, more custom parts, improved data logger, and I could go on.

And it's all for free.

What else do you want in a console racing game?

Once the additional features are also introduced, forgetting anything else that may arrive like FIA events, it will be far ahead of GT5.

But yeah, 30 bucks sounds about right because clearly 60 is just a complete rip-off.

 

[mister dog]

What else do you want in a console racing game?

Don't get me started...

 

[apexpredator100]

Is it safe to say that this thread has been derailed again?

 

[Nooboogering]

Polyphony Digital set the prices for Gran Turismo 6?

 

[RACECAR]

Pretty sure its the publisher that sets the price, not the developer.

 

[Nooboogering]

yes, thanks RACECAR.
Sony do pull most of the strings.

 

[Johnnypenso]

yes, thanks RACECAR.
Sony do pull most of the strings.

Nope. Same as most products in the marketplace, prices are market driven. Console videogames have an expected price at launch and beyond that demand and supply...aka market conditions, usually determine where it goes from there. Sony just reads the signs, they don't control the market.

 

[Griffith500]

Nope. Same as most products in the marketplace, prices are market driven. Console videogames have an expected price at launch and beyond that demand and supply...aka market conditions, usually determine where it goes from there. Sony just reads the signs, they don't control the market.

What is "the market"? Nobody said Sony "controls" it, in any case.

It's still their decision what price to put on their product, which itself is a part of the market.

 

[dimassa19]

Is it safe to say that this thread has been derailed again?

 

[trustjab]

Missing features means incomplete. Added features means extra content. So thats the consenus. Id like a course maker, thats my biggest gripe with gt6 from gt5. I hope Kaz and co. give us more to look forward to. So far this month I think they have done a decent job at that.