Oh, oh, oh, I'm making a Ludicrous Claim®! Read the first post!

[R5]

So the solution is to bully them until they stop? I really doubt that is the desired spirit of GTPlanet. And it certainly doesn't make the site look pretty.



Even if he did make his name visible, it's no reason to keep mocking him, provoking him and laughing at him. Nor is the fact that he made a claim that he has failed to back up with evidence. If he doesn't conduct like the AUP requires, then warn him, suspend him or ban him. Don't let a mob of users bully him.

What's been going on here for the past three pages is not constructive in any manner, it only serves to break people down.

The thing is, he brought it on himself really. He chose his actions and payed the price.

And I forget, how can we be productive when he never provides anything but insults to members. Plain, simple.

I agree with the points you made Famine, however, I do not see the need to constantly 'beat a dead horse' here with people trying their hardest to look cool in front of their net friends by coming up with all these jokes and stuff. Each to their own I suppose.

I lost my respect for you when you mentioned "net friends". People come up with jokes all the time. Why? Maybe simply to make others laugh, maybe just socially. Jokes are jokes. Different purposes.

 

[Famine]

Even if he did make his name visible, it's no reason to keep mocking him, provoking him and laughing at him. Nor is the fact that he made a claim that he has failed to back up with evidence. If he doesn't conduct like the AUP requires, then warn him, suspend him or ban him. Don't let a mob of users bully him.

What's been going on here for the past three pages is not constructive in any manner, it only serves to break people down.

Of course many members are angry at him and they're choosing to vent their anger on Twitter. We don't police Twitter and we wouldn't give GTPlanet members infractions for their behaviour on other sites. There's a couple of close to the bone things in the last couple of pages, but nothing overtly AUP-breaking on the first glance.

I won't and can't take action against people for their comments on Twitter or any other site. I don't see anything I can take action against on GTPlanet. Perhaps you could point me to a specific message that disquiets you - and perhaps this is itself better done by PM?

 

[Brend]

@legacyMACHINE That's a shame, I am sorry that we no longer see eye-to-eye because of one member's drama.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

The way I see it, Zuel brought everything on himself. He started all of this and can finish it just as easily.

 

[eran0004]

And you know that the staff have not done this how?

You left out that last bit of the quote, which was the entire point: Don't let a mob of users bully him.

And you know that no action has been taken against other members how?

To be a little blunt about it you don't actually know what action has or has not been taken against members in regard to the AUP at all, as such making assumptions about it is commenting without being in full possession of the facts.

I don't know what's been going on behind the curtains, but the moderators here are usually pretty good at dealing with issues so I have no reason to think that they haven't acted in some way. And I don't have any critique against that, because, as you say, I don't know what has been done.

What I'm against, is the public mocking and bullying that's going on here. Page after page of laughing at a user. Even if that has been dealt with in some way, it's still there and visible to anyone.

I won't and can't take action against people for their comments on Twitter or any other site. I don't see anything I can take action against on GTPlanet. Perhaps you could point me to a specific message that disquiets you - and perhaps this is itself better done by PM?

Well, which specific drop caused the glass to spill over? Inividually they're small, it's the combined effect that does the harm.

You could look at the overall trend of the thread and say: "Okay, it's enough. This topic has been dealt with. Move on." That seems to be the usual method when a thread is about to derail and I don't think anyone would oppose to it. No need to take action against any individual users, especially as one can argue that people has been triggering each other and it's really hard to assign blame in a fair way. And it's not really desired to assign blame either, all I want is to bring attention to what's going on here: The sum of all posts has gone too far - what can we do to prevent it from happening again?

The thing is, he brought it on himself really. He chose his actions and payed the price.

And I forget, how can we be productive when he never provides anything but insults to members. Plain, simple.

There is no such thing as justified bullying. If someone is behaving in a bad way, bullying is not the way to fix it.
A productive way could be to report him to a moderator, for instance. That button is always available. I can understand if in the heat of the moment someone would pay back in the same way, but that's hardly the case here. Not to this extent.

 

[ImaRobot]

 

[Luminis]

I am entertained. Isn't that the purpose of the thread?

 

[Katiegan]

If you make a ludicrous claim that's false and can't handle being called out on it and whatever backlash it creates, don't say it. Welcome to the real world.

 

[Famine]

Don't let a mob of users bully him.

public mocking and bullying

The sum of all posts has gone too far

There is no such thing as justified bullying.

bullying is not the way to fix it.

I'm not seeing it.

Except on Twitter, and I don't moderate Twitter. If I'm missing it, please let me know which posts are doing it.

 

[eran0004]

I'm not seeing it.

Except on Twitter, and I don't moderate Twitter. If I'm missing it, please let me know which posts are doing it.

I'll make a list and PM it to you.

 

[Scaff]

You left out that last bit of the quote, which was the entire point: Don't let a mob of users bully him.

I left it out because its not happening.

I don't know what's been going on behind the curtains, but the moderators here are usually pretty good at dealing with issues so I have no reason to think that they haven't acted in some way. And I don't have any critique against that, because, as you say, I don't know what has been done.

Which would then raise the question of why your post implied that action would not / had not been taken in this regard?

What I'm against, is the public mocking and bullying that's going on here. Page after page of laughing at a user. Even if that has been dealt with in some way, it's still there and visible to anyone.

A few have laughed at the situation, but no one has directly attacked or abused him. Most of the comments have been in regard to his claims. To date I've not seen anything that is a direct violation of the AUP and only a few which run close to it (and again the staff will deal with these as they feel fit)

I would also raise the history of this thread in this regard, the quickest and easiest way to resolve all of this (either way) would be for the member in question to address the requirement I have made of him, that has and will resolve the issue pretty much instantly.

 

[R5]

Oh god seriously, eran? This isn't bullying because, quite frankly, he's given as bad as he's got. That isn't bullying, just the circle of life... Give what you get, karma etc.

 

[killerjimbag]

I think we need Dr.Phil.💡

 

[Ken]

Bullying? I disagree wholeheartedly. This Zuel has bashed the community, in and outside this thread, on numerous occasions. He has called us all idiots, in one fashion or another. The bully would be him. We are reacting with tongue in cheek anger, if anything. Cause and effect. That is what I see.

 

[eran0004]

I left it out because its not happening.

Which entirely distorted the quote and made it look like I was accusing you of not doing something.
And I have to disagree, it is happening.

Which would then raise the question of why your post implied that action would not / had not been taken in this regard?

No, my post was directed at the other stuff, the "icing on the cake". The matter of Zuel backing up his claims should stay as a moderator issue, what I'm saying is that it's wrong to also have a public discussion about it, especially since the actual subject of the discussion is not even around anymore and everyone involved knows that the claims most likely are false. The main topic of this thread for the past 5 pages (and probably more, because it didn't start there) has been to laugh at Zuel. Initial reactions for a ludicrous claim? Fine. But it's been going on and on and on and people are constantly making fun of him and his language, his spelling, his twitter account, his claims... at some point it has gone too far.

A few have laughed at the situation, but no one has directly attacked or abused him. Most of the comments have been in regard to his claims. To date I've not seen anything that is a direct violation of the AUP and only a few which run close to it (and again the staff will deal with these as they feel fit)

I would also raise the history of this thread in this regard, the quickest and easiest way to resolve all of this (either way) would be for the member in question to address the requirement I have made of him, that has and will resolve the issue pretty much instantly.

It's obvious that this thread has gone out of hands for at least a couple of pages. If he needs to prove something, then leave that to a moderator to deal with, there's no reason why the entire community should be involved. If you look at all the posts individually then they're not worse than usual, but there's a lot of them and it never ends. That is bullying.

Oh god seriously, eran? This isn't bullying because, quite frankly, he's given as bad as he's got. That isn't bullying, just the circle of life... Give what you get, karma etc.

What the bullied has or hasn't done is irrelevant, two wrongs doesn't make one right. Bullying is bullying, and no one deserves to be bullied. Imagine you being in the same position, go back and read all the posts and imagine they're about you. How does that make you feel?

Bullying? I disagree wholeheartedly. This Zuel has bashed the community, in and outside this thread, on numerous occasions. He has called us all idiots, in one fashion or another. The bully would be him. We are reacting with tongue in cheek anger, if anything. Cause and effect. That is what I see.

See the above. If a single user has upset the community so much then he should have been reported a long time ago. When it's been allowed to go this far, it has gone wrong.

And in addition to all of this, imagine a guest user visiting GTPlanet for the first time and spots this thread. What kind of impression will he or she get of the site and the community? Not a good one, I'm willing to bet.

 

[Slash]

Do you know what bullying means?


I suggest you look at a Webster dictionary.

 

[Tornado]

 

[ImaRobot]

As horrible as it sounds, I always believed in "If they can dish it out, they better prepare to receive it in double."

 

[R5]

Oh Christ. Alright I'd look back at these posts and think "I deserved this" if I was Zuel, or I just wouldn't care. Either way I wouldn't cry about it, because comments online can be blocked by not visiting the website or not going on the Internet.

I never at any point said "He bullied us so we bullied him so were good guys" I simply said that if he treat others with respect he'd not be in the situation of having people dislike him.

Bullying is also hard to define, as its different for others. I put up with worse every day, and I just ignore it. Some people get a lot less and start a riot over it. Sometimes it leads to indifference, sometimes it's a dark road. Has Zuel himself said he feels bullied? Nope. Therefore there is a high risk that he doesn't feel bullied. And he shouldn't really. He is getting what he deserves for the way he's spoken to others.

 

[Tornado]

And in addition to all of this, imagine a guest user visiting GTPlanet for the first time and spots this thread. What kind of impression will he or she get of the site and the community? Not a good one, I'm willing to bet.

I imagine the impression that guest member would get is that completely fabricating news (as well as evidence to support that news) for nothing more than attention (as Zuel has a history of doing) is not tolerated by either the normal members or the actual rules on a fan site for a series which is regularly used as an actual news source (both for news articles and the content on the forums) for the series it was founded to talk about.



It also probably would help if the member in question wasn't responding (as he also has a history of) with questions about his statements with outright threats against the people who have the required knowledge of the things he's making claims about to directly contradict him.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Imagine you being in the same position, go back and read all the posts and imagine they're about you. How does that make you feel?

So, I'll imagine I've routinely made insulting comments about the community as a whole, threatened bodily harm to at least one member of staff, constantly respond to said staff with thinly veiled, rule-skirting insults, up to and including when they've given me ample time to prove my wildly outlandish claims - ones I've had to then come up with other stories to cover?

If I weren't completely self-absorbed - and that'd be a big ask, as I'd have just weaved an elaborate yarn online for the sole purpose of attention - I'd be able to look at the situation and utter "yep, I deserved that". Right before I got Kaz on the phone.

 

[eran0004]

So, I'll imagine I've routinely made insulting comments about the community as a whole, threatened bodily harm to at least one member of staff, constantly respond to said staff with thinly veiled, rule-skirting insults, up to and including when they've given me ample time to prove my wildly outlandish claims - ones I've had to then come up with other stories to cover?

If I weren't completely self-absorbed - and that'd be a big ask, as I'd have just weaved an elaborate yarn online for the sole purpose of attention - I'd be able to look at the situation and utter "yep, I deserved that". Right before I got Kaz on the phone.

You're a moderator. Just ban him and be done with it, if he has been behaving so badly. There's no reason to let it go on like this. Is it for revenge? Does everyone need a chance to get back on him? Why?

 

[Ken]

One thing about the infield is that we are a community. Sure, we bicker and fight and poke fun at one another. I poked fun at @Slash the other day about his Ford love. I apologized. We moved on. Had a laugh about to, irrc. But rile one member and you get us all riled up. This all started, as the title of this thread would suggest, as somebody pointing out a outlandish claim. That's it. Somebody pointing something out. It only became an issue when Zuel started, well, bullying his belief in his truth around. We all found it offensive. We all knew that it a violation of the AUP. It also could have very well been an moderator issue, until Zuel started making it a point to attack anybody that didn't share his belief in his truth. And as you have mentioned, we make fun of his grammar and spelling. This man claims to have a direct link to Kaz's ear. But he can't spell school correctly. We aren't so much making fun of the man as much as we are saying "are you 🤬 kidding us?"

All in all, I believe that you see the backlash without totally understanding the reason. As you have said, you have gone back five pages or so. But you haven't gone back to the source. You are esstianlly, IMHO, blaming the victors because they have won so unanimously. But instead you might want to figure if they were just in the first place. The community here has been close to the bone, as was mentioned earlier. But the actions have justified those means. The moderator have full control of this as they feel it needs to be. If anyone of this group steps over those lines, we'll know it. As we will be warned and punished as needed. We as premiumites know we aren't outside the rules, we just know how where the lines are and get a little closer than most.

You're a moderator. Just ban him and be done with it, if he has been behaving so badly. There's no reason to let it go on like this. Is it for revenge? Does everyone need a chance to get back on him? Why?

For all the bullying accusations you dole out, you question the moderators empathy? That's curious. I for one, admire their actions and willingness for Zuel to prove himself one way or another.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You're a moderator. Just ban him and be done with it, if he has been behaving so badly. There's no reason to let it go on like this. Is it for revenge? Does everyone need a chance to get back on him? Why?

Here, I'll tell you how to do your job, with no real knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Famine]

You're a moderator. Just ban him and be done with it, if he has been behaving so badly. There's no reason to let it go on like this. Is it for revenge? Does everyone need a chance to get back on him? Why?

He has requested time to demonstrate his claim. We have given him conditions in exchange. If we ban him before he's had chance to meet the conditions or fail to, we are the liars.

No thanks.

 

[sparkytooth]

This is quality entertainment I must say, better than the entire season of Top Gear.

 

[eran0004]

Do you know what bullying means?


I suggest you look at a Webster dictionary.

You don't even face any of the arguments I make. You're just trying to diminish me and the knowledge (or lack of) that I have of this subject.

Do you know what bullying means? How many times have you been in a situation where you've been responsible for a group of people (adults, youth or children) and you've learned that there's a bullying issue? At work, at school, in the sports team? Have you ever had to face these issues for real, or have you just been reading about them in dictionaries?

And yes, I have a lot of knowledge on bullying.

Here, I'll tell you how to do your job, with no real knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes.

Which is why I point at the stuff that's perfectly visible to anyone. I haven't said anything about what you have or haven't done behind the scenes. What I'm saying is that this thread is full of stuff that's not worthy of our community, and we should do something to make it change.

He has requested time to demonstrate his claim. We have given him conditions in exchange. If we ban him before he's had chance to meet the conditions or fail to, we are the liars.

No thanks.

The excuse people are using to justify the contents of this thread is that he has been abusing members of this community, the community as a whole, he has threatened moderators and threatened to attack the site. If that all is true, why let it go this far? I'm sure most of the above is not allowed here.

And even if he still somehow regained the trust to remain here, there's no reason to let a thread go on just to make a joke out of him.

 

[R5]

You have a lot of knowledge on bullying yet haven't responded to my post calling you out on your bullying claim... How interesting...

 

[Tornado]

"I'm not telling you how to do your job because of stuff I don't know about. I'm just telling you that the stuff I've seen shouldn't be acceptable to you without knowing whether you've already done anything about it."

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Which is why I point at the stuff that's perfectly visible to anyone. I haven't said anything about what you have or haven't done behind the scenes. What I'm saying is that this thread is full of stuff that's not worthy of our community, and we should do something to make it change.

So that list is done, then?