[OPINION] - Gran Turismo will never be good again.

[RikkiGT-R]

This is entirely my opinion, you are of course free to disagree...

I've slowly come to realise that Gran Turismo will never again reach the heights of the older editions, especially GT4 (the pinnacle in my opinion).
They continue to shift many copies each time because of a huge fan base built in large part because of the quality of previous games, but each version since the aforementioned pinnacle has been getting steadily worse and, let's be honest, more bizarre.

GT5 and 6 had huge issues with ridiculous XP systems, star collections to open new events, premium/standard cars, the introduction of microtransactions, criminally low amount of races in each game (compared to GT4), B-Spec having twice the length of races (and being much more restricted as well, and thus those races were more competitive and challenging), a continued lack of damage model, cars that sound like a hollow bath tub when they crash... I could go on and on. Both games were huge missed opportunites.

GT Sport was never intended to be a single player offline game with a career so we can kind of give them a pass - even though the career they added has easily the worst AI I've ever encountered in a racing game anywhere on any platform, so they had a chance to create a great GT experience because there was loads of races added, but then they just had to add dreadful "afterthought" AI to ruin it. Just... why?

GT7 is the worst of the lot. It was sold as a deception; reviewed before the truth was finally revealed, which alone is unforgivable. A shockingly low number of races that take less than a day to complete, always-online nonsense, server issues, "fixing" the game by further pushing players into microtransactions using blatant and disgraceful FOMO tactics, endlessly promising to improve something they should have simply made good before it was even released.

Again, I could go on and on, but Gran Turismo is starting to feel too much like Game of Thrones; if you think this will have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention. PD are completely delusional and utterly detached from their 25+ year fan base, they have a bizarre view of what would make a good game and they continue to release half-assed rubbish time and again to their far too loyal customers. I guarantee if and when GT8 is released, it will be yet another farce. I guarantee it.

 

[danjama]

The deception does piss me off hugely.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

I am also of the opinion that the game only sells well because of it's loyal fanbase. I'm one such case.

However, the faith has started to decline after GT6. GT5 I saw it was a "downgrade" from GT4 but it was at that moment, the only game of their franchise that made me disappointed. However... With GT6, more of the same and worse continued...
And now with GT7, my faith has completely been destroyed. I will not buy GT8 at launch like I've did with all GTs since GT4.


-No freedom of what you can race at the beggining. Ever since GT5, introducing bizarre and pointless XP and Stars to unlock events, making licenses seem all pointless.
-The start of the chase the rabbit races and the disappearance of qualifying sessions.
-The lack of propper detailed cars worthy of being on the console the game is being played on.
-The B-spec being worse and disappearing all together.
-Birth of microtransactions.
-Game after game, less and less content at launch while you pay full price for it.
-Addition of pointless features (VGTs and Music Rally for example).

And an overall simple missed opportunity with all of these games. GT7 clearly being the worst offender.

 

[meekrab]

-Addition of pointless features (VGTs and Music Rally for example).

The fact that the two options on the main menu are "World Map" (99% of the game) and "Music Rally" is really hilarious. Like, is there some reason it couldn't just open to the world map and have music rally be an icon there?

 

[TheGeologist]

There is so much whining on the forum lately lol. Calm down. Put the game down for a while and go outside.

 

[llNovall]

Personally, I think everyone needs to come to the realization and expect that current titles will be evolutions rather than a full offering. GTSport in its infancy was very minimal in content, cars, and features, but as it evolved it became a great title in itself. And as I recall, so was GT5 and GT6. This is the way of it now....same as pc titles....everything can be patched/updated to be made better. Obviously this comes off deceptive, frankly because it's not offered immediately, but that's not to say it isn't incoming.
With time and through updates, I personally am confident GT7 will be among the top titles within the series...we just need to survive the growing pains. I'm in it for the long haul.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

I pretty much agree. Been a fan since 1. 2 was just fantastic. 3 was lean but the improvements were immense and 4 was the peak of the franchise(actually playing this one again via my phone and razor kishi). 5, though improved, was really showing stagnation compared to other games. 6 cemented that GT was just going to do its own thing despite the competition. Sport was a just huge let down for me. Even after adding all the events like the classic games, the car variety just didnt support it. Then we get to the announcement of 7 and the return to Classic GT and it ends up being just meh and still a shadow of its former self. I still bought the game. Probably should have read up on it a bit more or read more reviews. I certainly cannot say the game excites me like previous entries but I spent the money and they got their +1 sale so in the end I supported this.

 

[Samus]

There is so much whining on the forum lately lol. Calm down. Put the game down for a while and go outside.

Whining

Definition of whining​

complaining or inclined to complain in a childish or petulant manner

Do explain what is childish or petulant about the OP?

People just like to label everything as "whining" and "complaining" around here.

 

[GXPTG]

Never is a very long time.

 

[R3V]

I agree more or less. PD has taken one step forward and several steps back with every release. They'll likely take their sweet time with making GT8 for PS6, only to take further steps back and marginal improvement on visuals.

 

[steve30x]

This is entirely my opinion, you are of course free to disagree...

I've slowly come to realise that Gran Turismo will never again reach the heights of the older editions, especially GT4 (the pinnacle in my opinion).

When I saw the GT7 trailers with the first iteration of the world map I thought and was hoping it was going to be a GT4 remake because GT4 is still my favourite GT game. What we got instead isn't nearly as much fun as GT4.

 

[steve30x]

There is so much whining on the forum lately lol. Calm down. Put the game down for a while and go outside.

Lately? Its been like this since I joined this forum 14 years ago.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I think it's pretty clear to me that, the further you get away from its release, the more it become apparent that GT4 was the absolute peak of the series, and that Kaz, and Polyphony in general, seem to always operate in a circular loop that tries to replicate what made that game successful either by straight up remaking it wholesale, GT4 assets and all (GT5, 6) or by trying to harken back to it (this game). Regardless of the actual competition in the genre. Even with GT4, you had actual competition from Microsoft with Forza Motorsport, and what did Kaz and Polyphony do? Soundly ignore them and watched their lead more or less evaporate over the next console generation with lackluster and bloated titles. Now? There's a massive amount of competition not only in the console space, but on a PC space where an ever growing chunk of the populace who were fans of GT have switched over and don't find themselves that interested in the series anymore.

Like, it's so obvious what the problems with the series are, they've been iterated on to death. Yet Kaz simply...ignores it, and believes that GT is in better health then it's ever been. And yeah, sure it might be a 10 million copy seller reliably, but aside from that, what else can the GT series actually do that other games, either within the sim racing space or even within the arcade space, have done better in this current state the franchise is in? Certainly not the moment to moment racing, or the gameplay loop. Graphics maybe, but by this point there's very clear challengers in that regard.

The GT series is very clearly in a crisis of faith, and if this was any other developer, then they'd rip apart the game to find out what is wrong (again, it's very obvious what is wrong with the GT series since 4, really) and work to either prevent it from happening again with the next game, or try and fix it, and make the game better then it was at launch. I don't even have confidence Kaz and Polyphony will do that, because they don't seem to care about the problems, or offer pie in the sky ideas with no set time table that often times are nowhere near what they promised, or Kaz more or less lies in order to save himself and make himself look more like the Peter Molyneaux styled charlatan he really has become since GT4's development and release.

So no wonder people 'whine' or whatever else people use to try and defend PD. When the games since GT4 have all been various shades of bloated and terrible, or reactionary and not what the vast majority of the fanbase wanted in the case of GT Sport, what other recourse is there, especially since Kaz and Polyphony have no desire to fix the problems that were made clear since then, and instead buzz off to post silhouette teasers on the creator's Twitter, or make the game harder to play for those who do stick around, simply to increase player retention and play time numbers?

 

[HyperSpeeder]

The problem is that you guys want to live in 2004 again. It won't happen.

Racing games have all migrated to service model now. Which one you play is purely a matter of taste. No racing game will ship with its full content anymore, because the game then dies in a month.

IMO what matters more is the roadmap for the game. Its state at release is of little importance. GT7's issue is not so much the lack of content, but the pace at which it's being updated. 2 months in, it's about time the game got a proper content update.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The problem is that you guys want to live in 2004 again. It won't happen.

Who said anything about this? And moreover, why don't you tell this to Polyphony themselves, who have been living in 2004 for the past twenty years when making their games?

Racing games have all migrated to service model now.

This isn't in doubt. What is in doubt is how Polyphony have worked within the live service model, which is to say...incredibly poorly!

No racing game will ship with its full content anymore, because the game then dies in a month.

Sure didn't stop Project CARS 2 from launching with a boat load of cars and tracks, and adding more via DLC. Wonder why then that Polyphony added no new tracks, only cheap nostalgia pops, very few new cars with the rest being again, cheap nostalgia pops, and launching with less events then the preceding, online only at launch title. Almost seems like a Polyphony problem.

Its state at release is of little importance.

Yeah, too bad that's wrong, and people will avoid a game with bad word of mouth at launch, and likely won't come back to it. If you don't feel that GT7 is a good enough example, one only need look at Battlefield 2042. Hell, both GT7 and BF2042 have a hell of a lot of similarities...

GT7's issue is not so much the lack of content

Once again, GT7 has less events then the preceding title, even though it uses all of GT Sport's car and track list (with only marginal additions added to each category) and you're out here saying that the lack of content isn't an issue? Come onnnnn.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I don't want to say never, because comebacks do happen. But yeah, it certainly isn't looking good.

It'll take a lot to convince me a future game in the series is good and that I should buy it.

Until then I'll just keep waiting and hoping GT7 gets somewhere, eventually. For a live service game, it's certainly taking forever to add new content.

 

[Coiler]

Times of finished games on a disk like gt3-4 are over. Gt is the definition of live service right now.

 

[Imari]

They continue to shift many copies each time...

It's probably worth noting that 10 million copies in 2022 isn't quite the same as 10 million copies in 1997 or even 2005. It's certainly good for a Playstation game, but it falls far short of big multi-platform releases.

Gran Turismo was once one of the best selling games in the whole world. It's very much not that any more, and it doesn't seem to be doing terribly well at dragging in new blood.

This is the way of it now....same as pc titles....everything can be patched/updated to be made better.

Everything can be improved with patches, but most games release with a lot more substantial content than GT7. Or GTS. This is the way of it now for Polyphony, maybe, but it's far from industry standard.

The state of the game at release matters because first impressions matter - nobody is happy with having dropped $70 on a game that might one day be good.

I guarantee if and when GT8 is released, it will be yet another farce. I guarantee it.

Until Polyphony demonstrates that they understand the problems with their game, demonstrate that they have the will and passion to make something creative and exciting, and demonstrate that they understand the basic fundamentals of racing games in the modern era they're going to keep releasing stuff that is average at best.

Their problem isn't that they can't make a good game. It's that the games that they're trying to make are at heart not very good. Polyphony have kneecapped themselves with a complete lack of competent game design, and all the fancy graphics and physics in the world won't save you if the game isn't fundamentally fun to play through.

 

[Pearl Jam]

Waiting for @Magog to come bounding into this thread with his blinkers on.

 

[tiberiusteng]

I'm feeling that Kaz want to lure (?) us to fair, online e-sport racing.

But I never want to play oh-so-challenging 200 A-Spec points games. I only want to zoom through AIs with my overpowered cars. Cutting through shortcuts. Slam AIs into outer space.

Leaving with lots of money. Lots of cars to sell.
It's OK to only reward me with 2 A-Spec points and mark me as E on whatever D or S rating.

I promise I'll never race online.

Guess what ... I can still play GT4 for now but not GT5 or GT6!

 

[A_Higher_Place]

I sadly have to say I agree with some of what has been mentioned here in this thread. It's frustrating that the AI are slow and uncompetitive even when I put them on "professional" settings. The penalty system online doesn't give me confidence that my race will be clean and close racing as I'm bumped and thrown around the track without any consequence to the other racer. To add to that, when (if) I do manage a good race, I can barely afford to buy a set of tires for my car (racing softs).

However, as I skipped GTS, I have to admit I'm in love with photomode and in love with the livery editor and the sharing capacity of it all. This game feels more like GT2 and GT4 when it comes to modifying cars. Right now this is what is keeping me playing. I can make a field of 20 Gordinis, all in different liveries go, rallying and it looks fantastic. But then I'm reminded halfway through the race that this isn't actually a race, it's the AI slowing down and letting me by for some reason.. annnndd we circle back to my above complaints.

 

[RedRockValley]

Its state at release is of little importance.

It kinda is, though.

Games at their state of release set an impression that'll stick with the company for the rest of the game's lifespan, regardless of whether the game gets better overtime or not. If bad launches keep happening consistently (like we saw with Battlefield), people are just going to end up losing faith in the developer entirely.

While there's not much we can do about launch day now (we're past it), you can't deny that GT7's launch was pretty shocking.

 

[kjb]

While I wouldn't say never it is not looking good. TBH this will probably be the last GT I will pre order. I had stop preordering games a few years back but since I had been looking forward to this game for so long I preordered it. NGL I play like everyday I am on the PS5 it does bring back some fond memories for me. But there is something missing from this game beside content, cars, tracks and decent AI that I can't quite put my finger on but this game is missing a certain something. For me there is a lot of fun to be had but this game is lacking. Hopefully they which actively work on making this game relevant again but we'll see. My last thought about this is maybe GT was never as good as we all thought because there was nothing else like it? 🤷‍♂️ Anyway that's JMO

 

[XSquareStickIt]

I am of the same opinion as the OP. Aside from all the other issues already addressed in this thread, I'd just like to add some of my own.

This game has CLEARLY never been playtested before release. Anyone who's ever driven a RWD car in real life would've ejected the disk and wrote a stern post-it note to QC after taking a single corner in the game otherwise. Ditto with the drift and dirt physics. No sane racing team would put their drivers into this game's 458 GT3 or RX-Vision GT3. Several bugs that range from stupid to severe, like not even being able to scroll through pages of decals, or progression blocking errors, bugs that would not elude an indie developer, plague GT7 en masse.

Since launch, every update has broken something. First, the rally tyres. Then the economy. Invitations. You get the point. I am waiting with baited breath to see what else they can break come the 25th. Maybe they'll find some way to make my PS5 break the disc.

GaaS is no excuse for shipping a quarter-baked, shoddy, broken game. Lack of content is one thing, but there is no excuse for the lobbies to be this dysfunctional, nor for saved liveries to completely fail to load decals, when both functions existed in GTS. Heck, the livery editor is almost a complete copy and paste job, as proven by the parity between GTS and GT7, and they somehow found a way to screw THAT up.

The staff at Polyphony are showing themselves to be utterly incompetent fools making a mockery of themselves and their fans. I am never buying a GT game again until PD proves that they care about their game, their fans, and are capable of making a working product, because right now, everything is pointing to the fact that they are incompetent idiots that simply don't care.

 

[FOG-Smokebeer]

Seems like most the player's are comparing GT7 to the older games i watch a few gaming podcasts and they never talk about GT or any racing games on PlayStation. If they don't modernize and get new players the game will slowly die

 

[Raceface1959]

My old name was Turismofan. (Still IS on FORZA. Great for stirring things up lmao) I lived, ate and breathed Gran Turismo. I'd buy everything Turismo I could lay my hands on. Turismo was the game I loved more than anything else. Then changes to the game happened as Kaz's lofty view of the perfect game ebbed and flowed. It was still GT to me. (I actually enjoyed Prologue a LOT. That carbon GT40 and the little Amuse race car were a joy to push faster and faster.) After that, I started to invest less time playing GT games and got into the other racing titles which I'd ignored because of Turismo. With the announcement of GT7, I looked forward to the promises of a return to a full complete game just as all of you did. Where do I find myself now? I'm not as eager to play GT7 every minute of every day but, BIG sigh, it's still a GT game with remarkably detailed, beautiful cars to race and drive through great scenery. It isn't finished, it may never be finished, but I'll take it as it comes. In the meantime, I'll share my play time with the other guys like Project Cars, Forza, Assetto and the numerous rally offerings. It might never be Gran Turismo 4 again (my favorite was 3), but we'll see what happens. I've got time.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

Seems like most the player's are comparing GT7 to the older games i watch a few gaming podcasts and they never talk about GT or any racing games on PlayStation. If they don't modernize and get new players the game will slowly die

I think some folks have a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticism this game is receiving. Modernizing is fine. Happens with most every series overtime. Games as a service is just the state of the industry. The criticism is that this game is trying to modernize, doing a pretty poor job and spiting fans that made this series as popular as it is. There is a balance PD needs to find and GT7 so far is a worse version of GT Sport(but but GT Sport took time to develop blah blah blah) with some carrot wagging to entice the old fan base. It just really missed the mark.

 

[Pigems]

The biggest question in all of this is, is it legitimately PD’s fault, or are they being pushed/made by Sony to meet shorter/stricter deadlines, add in certain extra money making features, and making the games easier/shorter to finish with less content. Personally, I feel like Sony has more to do with these changes than PD, but that’s just my opinion of course. I feel like Sony’s want to make money, is finally trumping PD’s want/ability to make us a great game.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

The biggest question in all of this is, is it legitimately PD’s fault, or are they being pushed/made by Sony to meet shorter/stricter deadlines, add in certain extra money making features, and making the games easier/shorter to finish with less content. Personally, I feel like Sony has more to do with these changes than PD, but that’s just my opinion of course. I feel like Sony’s want to make money, is finally trumping PD’s want/ability to make us a great game.

No doubt Sony has a hand in the state of the series but there has been a pretty serious disconnect with the development of this series for over a decade(15 years?). Even GT4 being peak GT was still overshadowed in modern features by the competition.

 

[Pigems]

No doubt Sony has a hand in the state of the series but there has been a fundamental disconnect with the development of this series for over a decade.

I dunno, I just feel for some reason that Sony is the one behind a lot of this, but that’s not to say that I’m in any way correct.

I’d argue that second point though, for me, GTS was the best GT of the entire series. I went from an offline only, automatic driving, average player, to discovering online racing, championship races, and making it into a couple of Top 16 FIA races by the end of its lifespan. I’ve never had more fun playing a racing game in my entire life. It was by no means perfect, but it was definitely my personal favourite. 👍