[OPINION] - Gran Turismo will never be good again.

[tankuroded]

When I saw this thread, I quickly thought of something in lines of "GT was never good" (as in similar sentiments regarding the Sonic series). I would have linked one regarding GT1, but that turned out to be a troll review from this thing.

I wonder what would anyone consider viewing GT as like that though, apart from AI-related/duplicate issues and existence of 90s PC sims (as well as stuff like TOCA), and these:

• Not being able to keep car roster updated at launch in general - apart from what's unattainable at the time, see the lack of C5 Corvette and facelift 4th gen Camaro in GT2
• Canning GT4's online support (IIRC they did come upfront about it when they replaced it with with LAN play)
• The GT5P-GT5 transfer thing (wording on here suggests that they retooled it to GTPSP-GT5 Portable Garage feature - compare what's here. Also at the moment there's still no info on GT5P transferring being on GT5's script files.)
• Promise of expanded London track (vs what we had on the PS3 era)

 

[HyperSpeeder]

With the technology available nowadays, shipping a fully polished game should not be that difficult. Especially with a large team developing the game, and one would assume time given over for testing their product.

To release a game that is:

1. Far from finished
2. Full of bugs
3. Lightweight for the genre (and series)
4. Intentionally hidden options to deceive reviewers and artificially inflate the score
5. Nothing like the “classic GT experience” they promised…

Is genuinely unforgivable. I’ve said since refunding GT7 that I’ll buy it again once they sort the game out, but honestly why should I bother? PD have destroyed my faith in them entirely.

Nobody cares about your refund, mate. Game is a commercial success. Millions of sales already, best seller in Italy (edging Elden Ring!), longer legs than Horizon Forbidden West which had much more hype around it.

Even with the microtransactions, this game would still score in the high 80s, because it was polished at launch (and I played it at launch, it was way better than Horizon Forbidden West for example), looks great (unless you have a zoom fetish), has advanced physics for console (note that I said advanced, not best, don't pull an ACC on me), tasteful customization for most cars (the rival franchise is a joke in this regard) and a campaign that, while not extensive, kept the casuals busy, and the casuals are the ones who post the official reviews (aside from GTPlanet's Jordan, of course).

In fact, in some respects, Gran Turismo is at the absolute best it's ever been. Sounds, weather, time of day cycle, all these crush GT4 and GT2 which are held as the best by most. Cars are more detailed than ever, without sacrifice of features like customization. New endurance events are all excellent and all demonstrate the capabilities of the game in detail. Even S-10 is an iconic license event and, for those who seek a bigger challenge, there's always the new Circuit Experiences.

Finally, the reason why the game was "unfinished" at release is because it's a service and that's how services are. Forza Horizon 4 and 5 were unfinished at release. The Crew 2 was unfinished at release. Even Forza Motorsport 7, which was not intended as a service, was unfinished at release ("unfinished" is a bit optimistic, it was in alpha state, lol). Sim racers in particular were unfinished at release. Did you know Assetto Corsa released as Early Access on Steam with menus that resembled an app rather than a game?

That's how it is, and it's not gonna change, because that's how racing games, among other genres, stretch their lifespans now. They're all evolving products. All your criticisms are based on a lack of understanding of what the product is. It's like complaining that Street Fighter 6 is nothing like the "classic SF experience" you knew from SFII, SF Alpha and SF3 (although their new logo sucks donkey balls). Game can't sustain itself for years by releasing all its content at launch anymore.

 

[BrunusCL82]

I just think that Sony could hire a group of developers from Kunos Simulazioni, Milestone, Slighty Mad Studios and Codemasters and set up a PD branch in Europe. I was always impressed with these people about the ease of producing and delivering content (tracks and cars) in a short space of time and even with a very different budget from Sony's "supergames". Sometimes I have the feeling that Kaz and the team have stopped in time - being locked in a monocultural technology bubble might get in their way.

 

[equalitus]

There is so much whining on the forum lately lol. Calm down. Put the game down for a while and go outside.

Better if PD give the players options like in GT3/GT4. Takes a few days to code..!

 

[ScottPuss20]

So it isn't good again now?

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Nobody cares about your refund, mate. Game is a commercial success. Millions of sales already, best seller in Italy (edging Elden Ring!), longer legs than Horizon Forbidden West which had much more hype around it.

Even with the microtransactions, this game would still score in the high 80s, because it was polished at launch (and I played it at launch, it was way better than Horizon Forbidden West for example), looks great (unless you have a zoom fetish), has advanced physics for console (note that I said advanced, not best, don't pull an ACC on me), tasteful customization for most cars (the rival franchise is a joke in this regard) and a campaign that, while not extensive, kept the casuals busy, and the casuals are the ones who post the official reviews (aside from GTPlanet's Jordan, of course).

In fact, in some respects, Gran Turismo is at the absolute best it's ever been. Sounds, weather, time of day cycle, all these crush GT4 and GT2 which are held as the best by most. Cars are more detailed than ever, without sacrifice of features like customization. New endurance events are all excellent and all demonstrate the capabilities of the game in detail. Even S-10 is an iconic license event and, for those who seek a bigger challenge, there's always the new Circuit Experiences.

Finally, the reason why the game was "unfinished" at release is because it's a service and that's how services are. Forza Horizon 4 and 5 were unfinished at release. The Crew 2 was unfinished at release. Even Forza Motorsport 7, which was not intended as a service, was unfinished at release ("unfinished" is a bit optimistic, it was in alpha state, lol). Sim racers in particular were unfinished at release. Did you know Assetto Corsa released as Early Access on Steam with menus that resembled an app rather than a game?

That's how it is, and it's not gonna change, because that's how racing games, among other genres, stretch their lifespans now. They're all evolving products. All your criticisms are based on a lack of understanding of what the product is. It's like complaining that Street Fighter 6 is nothing like the "classic SF experience" you knew from SFII, SF Alpha and SF3 (although their new logo sucks donkey balls). Game can't sustain itself for years by releasing all its content at launch anymore.

But GT7 wasn’t released as “early access”, it was released as a complete AAA title, an apparent hark back to classic GT games (Yamauchi’s words) that we fans have been begging for for several console generations.

It was nothing of the sort. Best it’s ever been? It’s not even close to decent, never mind the best. It’s a well polished turd.

Kaz and PD blatantly lied, simple.

 

[Samus]

Did you know Assetto Corsa released as Early Access on Steam with menus that resembled an app rather than a game?

Did you know they advertised it as Early Access, so people got what they paid for? Sony did no such thing with GT7. They charged $70 for a full product.

Show me any piece of media or advertisement pre-release that suggested GT7 was going to be a live service game that was barebones at launch. No, they waited until release day to put out a little post on the website telling people they were going to be adding more to the game, bit late by then, and they didn't exactly shout it from the rooftops.

Anyone walking into a store today to buy GT7 is going to be expecting a fully finished product. Nothing on the box or promo spiel online suggests otherwise.

 

[Junkman55]

You can look at GT7 as a investment of $70 that will keep on giving with updates and with inflation the next time you go to the game store it might be $100 for the same game of today. When GTS came out I paid $20 it was one of my great investments in online racing.

 

[Pete_J_C]

I always thought live service games were almost entirely the MMO genre, where new raids or dungeons or multiplayer content was released. brand new entire zones etc. the equivalent for gran turismo is utilising already pre-existing content in the game to create the endurance missions, or... change the starting position of a race

additionally, and I hate to be that guy but.. finished games still continue to be released and are not live-service. they tend to be quite successful, one in particular with the initials E.R.

 

[Samus]

I always thought live service games were almost entirely the MMO genre, where new raids or dungeons or multiplayer content was released. brand new entire zones etc. the equivalent for gran turismo is utilising already pre-existing content in the game to create the endurance missions, or... change the starting position of a race

additionally, and I hate to be that guy but.. finished games still continue to be released and are not live-service. they tend to be quite successful, one in particular with the initials E.R.

Live service games can be any genre but the whole idea of them is that each update is large and worthwhile to keep people entertained until the next one. As you say, the GT updates rarely have as much content and certainly wouldn't last until the next one.

If GT came out with a huge pack of content every 2-3 months, you could probably consider it a successfull live service game.

 

[RedRockValley]

Live service games can be any genre but the whole idea of them is that each update is large and worthwhile to keep people entertained until the next one. As you say, the GT updates rarely have as much content and certainly wouldn't last until the next one.

If GT came out with a huge pack of content every 2-3 months, you could probably consider it a successfull live service game.

Not to mention something like a roadmap, something which GT7 desperately needs if they're going to go down this road of dripfeeding.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Did you know they advertised it as Early Access, so people got what they paid for? Sony did no such thing with GT7. They charged $70 for a full product.

Show me any piece of media or advertisement pre-release that suggested GT7 was going to be a live service game that was barebones at launch. No, they waited until release day to put out a little post on the website telling people they were going to be adding more to the game, bit late by then, and they didn't exactly shout it from the rooftops.

Anyone walking into a store today to buy GT7 is going to be expecting a fully finished product. Nothing on the box or promo spiel online suggests otherwise.

This is what gets me about using Assetto Corsa as an example - Kunos made no bones about the fact that it was early access, and that people were buying into a game that was being built alongside. Where is it that GT7 can be considered 'early access'?

But then again, considering the person quoted, I have no doubt that AC was brought up dishonestly. With that being said...

Game is a commercial success. Millions of sales already, best seller in Italy (edging Elden Ring!), longer legs than Horizon Forbidden West which had much more hype around it.

Everyone knows by this point that GT can sell millions of copies, more often then not by virtue of being a Playstation exclusive title. However, those sales numbers ultimately don't matter if the playerbase isn't happy, which they weren't, and you can make the case that they still aren't.

Forza Horizon 4 and 5 were unfinished at release.

There's your hobby horse, surprise surprise. Ironic then that FH4 and 5 both had more content out the box then GT7 did, and have added onto it. No matter how many times you stomp up and down saying both games were 'unfinished'.

The Crew 2 was unfinished at release.

Still had more content then GT7 out the box

Even Forza Motorsport 7, which was not intended as a service, was unfinished at release ("unfinished" is a bit optimistic, it was in alpha state, lol).

Still had more content then GT7 out the box

All of this is to say that GT7 launched with less events and a significantly less fulfilling campaign (in fact, there was none) then GT Sport, a game which was an utterly reactionary, online focused title that got shifted to being a somewhat single player experience. What do you say to that other then how pathetic it is that GT7 got beat out in the content front by an online focused title?

That's how it is, and it's not gonna change, because that's how racing games, among other genres, stretch their lifespans now. They're all evolving products.

No one is arguing against live service games. The issue is that this game was cut to the bone content wise in order to piecemeal it back in for 'free', and most of said content was cut back in the places where it could have been made better in the end game. It still wouldn't have made the rotten core gameplay loop predicated on the Menu system any better, but it certainly would have worked out better then people going through the campaign and realizing that the game more or less ends at Gr. 3, just when things start to get interesting, and that two of the game's classes are more or less ignored.

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how hard and how far you're willing to go to cape for Polyphony, even when they knowingly (and deliberately) **** up, all so you can continue beating your hobby horse that Forza (and most other games) are the devil. Give it up.