ORCA - Coming Soon: SILVIA RM SPEC CUP!

[carracerptp]

I say just ditch any warrenty, they do not inspire confidence. Besides all subarus last atleast 500 years, thats just a straight up scientific fact.

Not where I live... very popular car to see wrapped around pole (tree) or in ditch.

 

[Torzilla]

Not where I live... very popular car to see wrapped around pole (tree) or in ditch.

I think that would fall under "operator error"

 

[TrackBound7]

There are problems in any series (especially the with constant changes from PD with the online racing). I think one of the biggest problems we have had with championship series in the past has been the divide between aliens and humans. There is usually close racing way up front and close racing 4 seconds back. I think having a 2 car series might help mix that up a bit. I don't know that you even need to keep points for an overall. Why not just a point system for the Sub, and one for the Evo (just like the GrandAm series does). If we really wanted to have an overall winner, that could be determined by number of wins or podiums, and could be figured out at the end...no point keeping. I could be very wrong, but I see 95% of our drivers not complaining about which car they would be placed in. We all know who the really fast guys are, and the rest of us know that we aren't. I don't know that we need a 2-3 week window of testing. If a couple of drivers do some independent (honest) tests, we can gather some data pretty quickly. Throw in a couple practice runs with drivers in what we think would be an appropriate car, on a couple different tracks, and see how it plays out. I don't see a need for drivers to be moved back and forth...make it simple, if you win in the faster car, either once or twice, you get moved to the other car.

 

[carracerptp]

I was woundering if anyone had tested running 2 tire compound instead of 2 car?
Say SH and SM, I think it would work better because it forces the top guy to reduce cornering speeds and back up their brake points.
But it leaves straight line speed alone. So passing can still work.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

If you need people to do any testing, I would be glad to help.

As usual, I probably won't make but a few races here and there so I will withhold any input on the logistics.

 

[dsgerbc]

I have a solution
Race Cappys and force X top drivers in the standings to use AT. Easy to policy w/o havoc in corners due to different setup. Extension - find more cars where it pays to shift before the redline.

 

[carracerptp]

I have a solution
Race Cappys and force X top drivers in the standings to use AT. Easy to policy w/o havoc in corners due to different setup. Extension - find more cars where it pays to shift before the redline.

I would put a brick under my gas pedal to make sure I never have to go back to an AT
And what about the guys that are fast with the auto box?
Put them in a MT ?

 

[Naptown25rs]

And what about the guys that are fast with the auto box?
Put them in a MT ?

No one is fast in an AT Cappy... Biggest turd EVER!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I was woundering if anyone had tested running 2 tire compound instead of 2 car?
Say SH and SM, I think it would work better because it forces the top guy to reduce cornering speeds and back up their brake points.
But it leaves straight line speed alone. So passing can still work.

This is a good idea and something we should check out. Should be between 1-2 seconds per lap depending on the track.

 

[TrackBound7]

When I competed in aceboy's Low HP league, we did a tire penalty after a win. Granted, it was a very small group (5 or 6 at best when I ran), but the tire change was a pretty good equalizer. Some where still winning with a harder tire, but the gaps were closer.

 

[CC570]

The tire penalty ended up being phased out rather quickly. While it did what was intended, which was to make the championship closer, it made forpoor races with the field spread way out. They ended up trying a pp penalty system. Unfortunately the series is on a hiatus so no idea if the pp system will work.

 

[OwensRacing]

WSGTC had used success ballast. We can use the power slider similar. Just know the PP for said hp and let the, in first. Raise pp to normal let rest in.


Truly is simple as pie.

 

[Johnnypenso]

WSGTC had used success ballast. We can use the power slider similar. Just know the PP for said hp and let the, in first. Raise pp to normal let rest in.


Truly is simple as pie.

We're not doing any PP or other resets Owens. We have to find cars that match up with different PP's where the lower one is at it's PP limit and the higher one we can use the slider on, then set the PP at the higher level and it stays that way for the season.

 

[BrandonW77]

Actually we tested using the power slider to impose a "success penalty" during the WRS/ORCA Fuji event and we found that limiting the power a little bit could often make people faster because the car was slightly easier to drive.

 

[Naptown25rs]

Actually we tested using the power slider to impose a "success penalty" during the WRS/ORCA Fuji event and we found that limiting the power a little bit could often make people faster because the car was slightly easier to drive.

I noticed that during our new format races, having a car that wasn't fully broken in was often easier to get through corners, and that along with the draft made up for the little bit you'd lose on the long straights.

 

[BrandonW77]

I noticed that during our new format races, having a car that wasn't fully broken in was often easier to get through corners, and that along with the draft made up for the little bit you'd lose on the long straights.

Yep, my RM Camaro only had 50 miles on it when I won a race at Monza. I was probably down 8-12pp.

 

[OwensRacing]

If you slide that slider far enough you going slower. LOL. This we can all agree with.



Also think this split is going to cause many to split literally. I myself race enough series where I don't ever win and a top five is a win. This is same cars. Think this is a bad idea. Only way to penalize is via success. Not from splitting racers.


Winner removes 15%

Second removes 10%

3rd removes 5%


Off podium add 5% obviously can't go over 100%

 

[BrandonW77]

Also think this split is going to cause many to split literally. I myself race enough series where I don't ever win and a top five is a win. This is same cars. Think this is a bad idea. Only way to penalize is via success. Not from splitting racers.


Winner removes 15%

Second removes 10%

3rd removes 5%


Off podium add 5% obviously can't go over 100%

I agree.

But I also don't want a system that requires people to make changes after races and I don't want to keep track of who gets what or have to keep resetting the track to let people in at different power levels. There are other groups trying the parity thing now, I'll probably let them handle it for now and see if they come up with anything that is simple and works well. I'm pretty much leaning more towards a single-make, tuning-prohibited series featuring the Impreza TC with simple rules and a simple format. This car is really easy to drive hard, that alone might be enough to keep the field a little closer/cleaner.

 

[Naptown25rs]

If you slide that slider far enough you going slower. LOL. This we can all agree with.

Also think this split is going to cause many to split literally. I myself race enough series where I don't ever win and a top five is a win. This is same cars. Think this is a bad idea. Only way to penalize is via success. Not from splitting racers.

Winner removes 15%

Second removes 10%

3rd removes 5%

Off podium add 5% obviously can't go over 100%

I agree. Despite you not wanting to keep track of results and PP on a weekly basis, I think keeping everyone in the same car and imposing PP or weight penalties will provide a much more level playing field, and it can be varied as needed for each week or race depending on result...

The top tier of fast guys are gonna be fast no matter what car they are in, and I don't think they'll have a problem finding a way to win in the "other" car. If you stick to two set PP level cars and the fast guys are still winning, you eventually end up with what you are trying to avoid in the first place.

Just my $0.02

 

[Naptown25rs]

I agree.

But I also don't want a system that requires people to make changes after races and I don't want to keep track of who gets what or have to keep resetting the track to let people in at different power levels. There are other groups trying the parity thing now, I'll probably let them handle it for now and see if they come up with anything that is simple and works well. I'm pretty much leaning more towards a single-make, tuning-prohibited series featuring the Impreza TC with simple rules and a simple format. This car is really easy to drive hard, that alone might be enough to keep the field a little closer/cleaner.

And no one says you have to do all of the work yourself... I'm sure there are plenty of guys that wouldn't mind picking up some minor secretarial duties to help you out and make the series better, myself included.

 

[OwensRacing]

As well having handicap style racing doesn't allow for slower racers to gain speed through talent. Racing hard and forcing yourself to be perfect because you want to catch some faster guys. Is the driving force that has made all of us improve.




Impreza TC has my vote. I know what color B is going with. LoL

Love that car too!

 

[Johnnypenso]

As well having handicap style racing doesn't allow for slower racers to gain speed through talent. Racing hard and forcing yourself to be perfect because you want to catch some faster guys. Is the driving force that has made all of us improve.

Impreza TC has my vote. I know what color B is going with. LoL

Love that car too!

It could also be true that by levelling out the playing field through a handicap allows the slightly slower drivers to run close to the slightly faster drivers and there is something to be learned from that as well. Probably a lot tougher to learn anything when you are running around by yourself than when running around or near faster drivers.

 

[BrandonW77]

As well having handicap style racing doesn't allow for slower racers to gain speed through talent. Racing hard and forcing yourself to be perfect because you want to catch some faster guys. Is the driving force that has made all of us improve.

It could also be true that by levelling out the playing field through a handicap allows the slightly slower drivers to run close to the slightly faster drivers and there is something to be learned from that as well. Probably a lot tougher to learn anything when you are running around by yourself than when running around or near faster drivers.

Both points are valid in their own way.

 

[Cote Dazur]

As well having handicap style racing doesn't allow for slower racers to gain speed through talent. Racing hard and forcing yourself to be perfect because you want to catch some faster guys. Is the driving force that has made all of us improve.

It is a good point, and having some handicap should not be an an excuse not to try to be a better driver.
But hot lapping on your own is not racing, it is not teaching you much and will not even motivate you to participate in the first place or will not give you the taste of sticking. Plus if you are a faster driver, who needs slower driver trying too hard in desesperation of catching some one and creating more issues by not having good control.
It is a misconception that all is needed to be good is try harder, some of us will never be as good as Schumacher, even with 3 life time of trainning, some of us do not have 3 life time to dedicate to be better racing online.
The real question is does ORCA wants to incorporate different level of driver in the serie, no then it is easy, yes, then you will need some type of handicap and it will be more complicated.

 

[TrackBound7]

I too agree with the two different philosophies of Owens and JP. I feel I have been on both sides of this arguement. I had a huge learning curve during the Alfa series with the help of some of the better drivers. Because of that I had the opportunity to run with the fast guys for brief moments in the races. I definitely became faster during that time. With that being said, I am not sure how much more speed I will gain (a lot depends on track and car combo for me). While I think some form of parity would help a lot of drivers enjoy more racing and learning from being around good drivers, I also don't want any good finishes to be tainted because I was in a better car. If I ever am able to break through and get a win in a real, points paying race with the ORCA group, I want to know that it was because I was dead on that day and beat the best straight up. I can really go any direction with cars and formats. I think many of the ideas that have been presented have some great pros, and some cons that would need to be worked out. Just looking forward to having some scheduled races with you guys again.

 

[LancerEvo7]

We've never had a problem before with the different skill levels, why worry about it now?

 

[Cote Dazur]

I too agree with the two different philosophies of Owens and JP. I feel I have been on both sides of this arguement. I had a huge learning curve during the Alfa series with the help of some of the better drivers. Because of that I had the opportunity to run with the fast guys for brief moments in the races. I definitely became faster during that time. With that being said, I am not sure how much more speed I will gain (a lot depends on track and car combo for me). While I think some form of parity would help a lot of drivers enjoy more racing and learning from being around good drivers, I also don't want any good finishes to be tainted because I was in a better car. If I ever am able to break through and get a win in a real, points paying race with the ORCA group, I want to know that it was because I was dead on that day and beat the best straight up. I can really go any direction with cars and formats. I think many of the ideas that have been presented have some great pros, and some cons that would need to be worked out. Just looking forward to having some scheduled races with you guys again.

I agree 100% with your post. 👍
Parity has a cost, you sacrifice the ability to establish who is really better that day to possibly have a more fun time racing more people. A choice has to be made between how serious is the competition as opposed to how much fun it is to compete. both are serious fun, but you cannot have both at the same time.

 

[watermelon punch]

When I competed in aceboy's Low HP league, we did a tire penalty after a win. Granted, it was a very small group (5 or 6 at best when I ran), but the tire change was a pretty good equalizer. Some where still winning with a harder tire, but the gaps were closer.

The tire penalty ended up being phased out rather quickly. While it did what was intended, which was to make the championship closer, it made forpoor races with the field spread way out. They ended up trying a pp penalty system. Unfortunately the series is on a hiatus so no idea if the pp system will work.

In the hopes of not making anyone else re-invent the wheel, or try things that have already failed, I'll pipe up on my experience with the tire penalty.

IT STUNK.
For me.
Not for everyone!!! But it stunk so bad for me it made me not to want to race in a series I loved, and in cars I adore.

BUT I can describe why, exactly, what the problem was. For me.

The tire penalty, had there been more racers, and had it been based on previous race results ONLY, it may have been okay.

But it was based on overall points standings... which meant that if a faster driver skipped a race, they'd be down in points and given soft tires.
And if a slow driver participated in every week, they'd be given hard tires.
That didn't seem very fair across the board. And that didn't make for closer races, it made for wider gaps in the races themselves, and more people being lonely on the track.

In some instances, depending on a particular racer's car (that they chose for the season) and the track they were on, and a particular racer's regular participation accumulating points - a slow driver could wind up on hard tires and completely unable to compete at all, or even an ordinarily faster driver would be completely emasculated.
I can speak to this because my league car was passable for me to be competitive in, but certainly not very fast! (Nissan Micra). Siberian Tiger who is fast, chose the more difficult handling Cappucino, and was very competitive in it.
Both of us, because of points, winning one race and participating every week put us both that week at 1st in points for our leagues... We both wound up on hard tires for the Monte Carlo Race. (He in Euro race, me in US East race.) And we both wound up having an arduous and unpleasant race way way way out behind lonely on the track and completely & harshly handicapped with no hope of even seeing the car ahead in position, let alone to do anything but keep losing time & falling farther behind.
And indeed, in both of those races, only 2 out of 4-5 racers actually were "racing" & not just lonely driving around the track. *sigh*

That said, I think tire handicaps COULD make sense.
I also think PP handicaps can make sense, and I'm looking forward to trying that with the Low HP League when Aceboy127 is back from gt5 hiatus.

But THE ONLY way I could see a tire penalty making sense is under the following conditions:

• 1-make races ONLY
• NO TUNING allowed - no mixed tire choices allowed
• Cars specifically chosen & tested with all tire possibilities on the particular tracks to be used.
• NEVER based upon season points which may vary because of non-participation, but only based on actual race finishing positions

For example, if the race is at Monte Carlo, and some people will be in FF cars & some in RWD cars... putting a fast driver on hard tires on an FF car or a less experienced driver winding up on hard tires on a RWD... while their fellow racer peers both faster slower or the same, are on soft tires... both of those things could be considered CRUEL & unusually harsh punishment for having done well or having showed up to race a lot.

It is a misconception that all is needed to be good is try harder, some of us will never be as good as Schumacher, even with 3 life time of trainning, some of us do not have 3 life time to dedicate to be better racing online.

Agreed. Like it or not, agree with it or not, respect it or not...
Fact is that many will never have the time, energy, and perhaps not even the desire, to practice practice practice playing a racing video game.
And FACT - the older you are, the worse your reaction times compared with a similarly experienced younger person... It's a physiological fact. I'm never going to be 25 again. And unless they come up with some kind of monkey hormones, even given the same equipment and same amount of practice & experience, I'm never going to be on the same playing field with a 21 year old. Full Stop.
Add to that also the whole "innate ability & talent" for a specific task... and well... (Let's put it this way I type 75-95wpm - but not everyone will ever type that fast no matter what. My mother who's in her 70s used to type that fast, but can no longer do so.)

That isn't going to stop me from enjoying a leisure past time like gt5 racing.

 

[BrandonW77]

I agree 100% with your post. 👍
Parity has a cost, you sacrifice the ability to establish who is really better that day to possibly have a more fun time racing more people. A choice has to be made between how serious is the competition as opposed to how much fun it is to compete. both are serious fun, but you cannot have both at the same time.

This is pretty much how I see it and I need to decide which one I want to do. Historically we've been a very competitive group and a podium finish is something worthy of pride, even more so for a victory. Like TrackBound said, earning a Capp Cup or ORCA win really meant something because there were almost always a handful of very fast guys that aren't easy to beat. Having the duel car system would water that down quite a bit, not sure if I want to do that, but I could.

What if we all drive the same car, same specs, but every week we change the car? Week 1 is FF, week 2 is FR, week 3 is MR, week 4 is AWD, etc., some people would be better in some cars then others and some would be worse. Hopefully everyone would get their chance to excel in one or two of the cars but would have incentive to race the cars they might not be as good in to keep their points total up. It just an idea, obviously some fast guys will be fast in just about anything, but at least if you end up lapping by yourself for a bit it will be in a variety of cars.

 

[OwensRacing]

Implement a yellow flag and pit stops at the half way point. Let the cars line up and do a rolling start. That is one free chance to regroup and keeps the gaps minimal.


This my friends is the solution. LoL