Over 60% Of GT5 Vehicles Were Japanese, Will GT6 Be Any Different?

[Famine]

Let's put some upgrades and decals on a Miata and call it an "Anniversary Birthday Special Edition Tuned MX-5 Miata 1234 RTTS Super Quick Car" and give it to them. Would they like it? Just kidding.

That's exactly what Mazda have been doing since 1996.

Ever seen a non-special edition MX-5? No, me neither - and I've owned 3 and been in a field with 620 of them.

 

[AlvaroF]

Japanese cars don't hurt me, the amount of duplicates does.
Only thing I want is a game which is enjoyable to play for a long time, I don't care what cars are in the game or tracks ( well I do care a bit). I do care for everything else like physics and stuff.

 

[eran0004]

Oooh, I did that too.

Removing all the duplicates gives you:
GT5 - Japan 54.1%; Europe 31.4%; North America 13.2%; Other 1.3%

Not counting DLC cars, this is how it looks in the premium range:

*Rally cars are counted as race cars
**Unique race cars counts the number of unique cars, i.e. excluding duplicates where the only difference is the livery, such as NASCARS and Super GT cars.
***Infiniti, Lexus and Acura are counted as Japanese brands

When it comes to road cars, Europe has the same representation as Japan (actually, Europe has one car more than Japan, but that difference is not big enough to show up in the percentage).

If we're discussing PD bias, it might be worth looking at their most recent works. What they did 10 years ago is not interesting, because it doesn't represent their current philosophy.

 

[HAL20XX]

You raise a good point. However, could you please expand on how importation regulations would have anything to do with virtual cars?

It's sort of an extension to the culture point I made. The Japanese government does a lot to keep people buying Japanese cars while making it more difficult and expensive to import cars. For example, when they did their own version of Cash for Clunkers, the original restrictions called for the exclusion of American cars. It was only under extreme pressure that they caved and allowed them. I just read that in 2008, only 502 Hyundai's were imported into Japan.

 

[the_racer100]

That's exactly what Mazda have been doing since 1996.

Ever seen a non-special edition MX-5? No, me neither - and I've owned 3 and been in a field with 620 of them.

In fact, no, I haven't.

And that's Polyphony Digital's major problem. As soon as they see a Z-Year 1.7 X-Brand Y-Model car, they put it together with the Z-Year 1.6 X-Brand Y-Model car. And then, instead of varying, like the others, or instead of replacing the car, they reach these astronomical values of cars. It's very funny to see a game with over 1000 cars, but it's not funny at all to realise that over 600 of them are Japanese... Having at least 50 trims of the same JGTC car to count as 50 different cars... And no GT3\GT2\GT1\LMPs, almost no DTMs, almost no V8s...

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

That might indeed be, I've never counted them. At least the muscle cars I want are in the game, and I'm extremely glad with them. It's not high on my priorities list to have even more, although I always welcome new cars to GT, any car I might add.

Just to name a few which are In Forza that would be nice in GT Firebird Trans Am I think there are 5 different generations of these in Forza 4. Nova SS, Buick GSX, Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt, Doge Dart, AMC Javelin AMX.

I would like it if there were more cars like this in GT as well as more European cars.

Overall though I am quite happy with the cars selection in GT5 and I am sure it will only get better in GT6

 

[Tornado]

I don't have a problem with that. If the car list was restricted to a certain number of vehicles then it would be a problem because they would take a spot from another car that could have been included instead. That's not the case though. If you live in Japan it's great if you could pick up the Lutecia, if you live in Europe it's great if you could pick up the Clio. You don't have to buy both, unless you want one for stock and one for tuning.

Which would be fine if:

• PD actually modelled differences when they existed; which unless the car is an Acura (and a couple times even then), they didn't. On a lot of them they didn't even switch the steering wheel around; and on some of them they didn't even change the exterior badging.
• PD weren't making up cars that they say exist (Where can I buy a Lexus GS 300 Vertex Edition?) so they could keep up the duplicating.
• The car count was adjusted to take all of this into account.

 

[Dan]

No.

You're entitled to hold whatever opinion you wish, but you're only entitled to express that which you can reasonably defend - and there is no reasonable defence to remove cars from a GT game that other people enjoy driving simply because you don't.

The grounds that these occupy space that could be taken by other cars that you might enjoy driving is baseless - every car that can be in a GT game already is and we know this because they are. There is oodles of space left on the disc, so there are no space limitations - these nasty little cars you don't like aren't occupying space that could be better used.

PD are simply limited by what they know about (they're making a car encyclopaedia and introducing niche manufacturers like KTM and LCC to the world... do you think they don't know about some cars that you do?), what they want (ibidem), what they can licence (this is the biggie), what they can get hold of to model and the time they have.

The assumption that other cars can be on the disc instead of the cars you don't like requires you to believe PD either lack knowledge of cars, lack desire for cars, went to the trouble of getting an expensive licence and chose not to bother, went to the trouble of getting an expensive licence without getting hold of a car to model or went to the trouble of getting an expensive licence and ran out of time.

Incidentally, the proportions of cars in Gran Turismo by region are:
GT1 - Japan 89.9%; Europe 3.7%; North America 6.3%; Other 0%
GT2 - Japan 67.4%; Europe 21.4%; North America 11.1%; Other 0%
GT3 - Japan 63.2%; Europe 24.7%; North America 11.6%; Other 0.5%
GT4 - Japan 62.0%; Europe 24.8%; North America 11.4%; Other 1.7%
GT5 - Japan 60.4%; Europe 26.5%; North America 12.0%; Other 1.1%

You can spot the trend yourself.

[/THREAD]

Thank you.

and I've owned 3 and been in a field with 620 of them.

Sounds fun.

 

[eran0004]

Which would be fine if:

• PD actually modelled differences when they existed; which unless the car is an Acura (and a couple times even then), they didn't. On a lot of them they didn't even switch the steering wheel around; and on some of them they didn't even change the exterior badging.

Did too. Why don't we take that Lexus GS300 Vertex Edition as an example? The Toyota Aristo is right-hand drive, the Lexus is left-hand drive. The badges are all different too.

• PD weren't making up cars that they say exist (Where can I buy a Lexus GS 300 Vertex Edition?) so they could keep up the duplicating.

I'm no expert on turn-of-the-century Lexus models, but according to the Lexus owner's club it did exist. The Vertex was a special trim version with sportier options. Although it seems like it was called S300 Vertex, rather than GS300 Vertex, but a name mistake hardly counts as "making cars up".

Edit: Seems like they were referring to the Aristo, so I take that back. There was a Sports Design version of the Lexus but no Vertex as it seems.

• The car count was adjusted to take all of this into account.

I suppose they could count them the same way they do with the tracks, in locations and layouts, which for cars would be models and versions. But it's just a number on a paper...

 

[I Love GT6]

Delete all the different Skylines, Miata's 'n' Silvias and you will have 50% Japanese cars.

 

[Tornado]

Did too. Why don't we take that Lexus GS300 Vertex Edition as an example? The Toyota Aristo is right-hand drive, the Lexus is left-hand drive. The badges are all different too.

I love how you took two statements that I qualified with "many" and "some" and tried to use one specific example to disprove all of them.

You also chose a particularly funny example to defend the point of how PD modeled the differences between duplicates, because no Lexus GS300 came with a twin turbo engine. Lexus models got the V8 instead.

I'm no expert on turn-of-the-century Lexus models, but according to the Lexus owner's club it did exist. The Vertex was a special trim version with more luxurious options. Although it seems like it was called S300 Vertex, rather than GS300 Vertex, but a name mistake hardly counts as "making cars up".

Except if you actually read that link, you'd note that it was the Japanese Spec Toyota Aristo that had the Vertex edition available as an option. Not the European or American spec Lexus GS300.

 

[eran0004]

I love how you took two statements that I qualified with "many" and "some" and tried to use one specific example to disprove all of them.

Nope, you said:

[If] PD actually modelled differences when they existed; which unless the car is an Acura (and a couple times even then), they didn't.

I showed you one car where they did, which wasn't an Acura. I can give you another example in the Peugeot 106 S16 vs Rallye. How many do you want?

You also chose a particularly funny example to defend the point of how PD modeled the differences between duplicates, because no Lexus GS300 came with a twin turbo engine. Lexus models got the V8 instead.

You said that they didn't even swap the side of the steering wheel or changed the badges. On the GS300 they did. The engine might not be correct, but there are differences. They're not simply copy-pastes.

 

[Tornado]

I showed you one car where they did, which wasn't an Acura. I can give you another example in the Peugeot 106 S16 vs Rallye. How many do you want?

Except the 106 S16 and Rallye aren't examples of duplicates; and the GS300 isn't an example of one where they modeled the differences when nothing related to performance is accurate.

You said that they didn't even swap the side of the steering wheel or changed the badges. On the GS300 they did. The engine might not be correct, but there are differences. They're not simply copy-pastes.

That's some pretty creative quoting on your part:

On a lot of them they didn't even switch the steering wheel around; and on some of them they didn't even change the exterior badging.

Anything else?

 

[eran0004]

Except the 106 S16 and Rallye aren't examples of duplicates; and the GS300 isn't an example of one where they modeled the differences when nothing related to performance is accurate.

But if the definition of duplicates are cars that are the same model but only different versions, then the S16 and Rallye are by that definition duplicates. And that seems to be the way people define duplicates, or perhaps that definition only applies if the car is a Skyline?

About the GS300, the way you wrote it made it sound like they didn't model any differences at all. I agree that it's not very accurate, but there are differences.

That's some pretty creative quoting on your part.

Hardly. Because that's what you wrote and what I responded to.

 

[Tornado]

But if the definition of duplicates are cars that are the same model but only different versions, then the S16 and Rallye are by that definition duplicates.

Your incorrect definitions are not my concern.

And that seems to be the way people define duplicates, or perhaps that definition only applies if the car is a Skyline?

Let me make it simple for you:

That's a car that PD modeled correctly.

That's a car that PD probably didn't bother to model correctly and instead just copied everything from the first since everything is so similar, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they did it right.

That's a car that PD most definitely did not model correctly, because they just copied everything from the JDM Aristo and applied it to that car when doing such is wrong; and a duplicate even though in real life it is not.

That's a car that PD outright made up, since there is no such thing as a Lexus GS300 Vertex Edition; and a duplicate because in real life it doesn't exist.

Hardly. Because that's what you wrote and what I responded to.

Let me break this down for you, too. Here's my entire statement, unaltered:

• PD actually modelled differences when they existed; which unless the car is an Acura (and a couple times even then), they didn't. On a lot of them they didn't even switch the steering wheel around; and on some of them they didn't even change the exterior badging.

Now I know you've seen it before, because you quoted it as such, unaltered. Quite clearly two different statements, where you responded to the first and acted like they were both the same.


Now, explain to me where I said that the GS300 was an example of a car that they didn't change the steering wheel or badging. And when you're done with whatever you come up with to try to spin that, explain to me how posting an example where they did change the steering wheel and badging means anything for the ones that they did not.

 

[eran0004]

[If] PD actually modelled all differences when they existed; which unless the car is an Acura (and a couple times even then), they didn't. On a lot of them they didn't even switch the steering wheel around; and on some of them they didn't even change the exterior badging.

There, now it's correct.
Except for the cases where they did model the differences though, but apparently those cars doesn't count.

 

[Tornado]

There, now it's correct.
Except for the cases where they did model the differences though, but apparently those cars doesn't count.

No, they don't. You're right. Because swapping the name and (most of the time, but occasionally not even) changing the textures and steering wheel side doesn't count as "modeling the differences" when they directly copied all of the performance information to cars where it doesn't apply in the slightest to the extent of making cars up. Hence why the Acuras are the only regional variations where they did do it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It is what it is. If the game were made in North America or Europe their cars would likely dominate. Nothing I can do about it...

 

[Famine]

Did too. Why don't we take that Lexus GS300 Vertex Edition as an example? The Toyota Aristo is right-hand drive, the Lexus is left-hand drive. The badges are all different too.

Uhh, actually the Vertex Editions are both right hand drive. The standard GS300 '00 is left-hand drive (it could be either - Europe and North American got LHD, the UK got RHD) while the standard Aristo '00 is right hand drive.

However, as pointed out, all four cars have the twin-turbo 2JZ-GTE (V300), when only the two Aristos should have it. The two Lexus cars should have the non-turbo 2JZ-GE (S300). And there was no such thing as the Lexus GS300 Vertex Edition - the trim being limited to the Aristo.

So there's only two genuine cars in there, the two Aristos. The two Lexuses have the wrong engine and one doesn't even exist by name (the SportDesign version of the GS300 was a GS300 with GS430 sport suspension and different wheels and trinkets; same 230hp 2JZ-GE engine).

The only modelled differences are the badges - and for the base GS300 an irrelevant driver's side change. The actual differences are considerably more.

 

[analog]

It is what it is. If the game were made in North America or Europe their cars would likely dominate. Nothing I can do about it...

If only I could think of a similar sort of game made in North America which predominantly featured North American cars due to that, don't think there currently is one fitting that exact description is there?

 

[CodeRedR51]

That's exactly what Mazda have been doing since 1996.

Ever seen a non-special edition MX-5? No, me neither - and I've owned 3 and been in a field with 620 of them.

Come to the US, they're all over. In fact my 1990 (one of the first 500 built) was a bone standard non-Special Edition Miata.

 

[Famine]

All the pre-93 cars have rotted away over here. Also it'd be classed as a special edition by virtue of being the only non-special edition version. Also that's not an MX-5.

Also, comedic purposes.

 

[Rdp616]

(despite them being quite popular on-line)

Hahaha, oh really now?...

 

[20B_4ME]

The more cars the better, I do not care where they are from. I do hope they add more classics, especially pre-1985 Japanese cars!

 

[Scaff]

Hahaha, oh really now?...

What a wonderful contribution to the thread.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I don't mind most of the japanese cars, I just wish that they would get rid of some of the duplicates or at least show the differences better. Another option is that they replace the duplicates with some other japanese cars that are awesome.

Hahaha, oh really now?...

*random gif*

Seriously?

 

[Nissan Cima]

I don't have a problem with a large # of Japanese cars... what I take issue with is the insane amount of duplicates. There is absolutely no reason why Skyline GT-R R34, the Skyline GT-R R34 "Midnight Purple II" and the Skyline GT-R R34 "Midnight Purple III" are separate cars. That is just completely ridiculous... they should just be paint options. One of the main reasons that Japanese cars make up 60% of the cars is because they are the main culprit when it comes to duplicates.

 

[Rdp616]

What a wonderful contribution to the thread.

Who said i had to make a contribution? I was simply questioning a statement that you made. Hard to contribute something to a thread asking a question about a game that hasn't even came out yet -_-...

Seriously?

Seriously what? Pretty sure i wasn't talking to you..

 

[CodeRedR51]

All the pre-93 cars have rotted away over here. Also it'd be classed as a special edition by virtue of being the only non-special edition version. Also that's not an MX-5.

Also, comedic purposes.

What's not an MX-5? My Miata that still had an MX-5 badge on it?

 

[Famine]

Yup.

Also, comedic purposes.

Mind you, I suppose PD think they're identical cars if nothing else.