Parkland FL HS shooting, shooter arrested, 17 dead
- Thread starter Obelisk
- 675 comments
- 32,180 views
- 140
- Melbourne, Australia
And therein lies the problem. Your nation is so much more than the ability to carry a lump of metal on you ffs. "I should relinquish my rights for the better good of society?" - YES. That's the point. Every other country is fine with it but apparently Americans are too precious about it. It's just utterly bizarre.
In some ways, I think there is cultural difference in relative acceptance, in that there is a very introspective-tinge to America. A huge percentage of Americans have never left their own country (understandable since it's so vast) but I wonder if that contributes to a lack of external awareness and empathy towards an 'outside-looking-in' viewpoint. It's not a criticism as such, it's just a pondering. But anyway, I digress.
LennyB
(Banned)
- 271
- United States
Here is the current form used for background checks. While I agree someone mentally unfit should be flagged I also care more about making sure treatment is offered because I know in many cases they can get their hands on a gun anyway.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
You realise an awefull lot of velgians believe you deserve these deads right? They believe you deserve as you guys refuse to accept the correlation between gundeads and the second amendment. And apperently in this world if we make acces to guns harder this happens less. So yeah if it's kot causation at least it works and we don't have that many gundeads...
I hate children die due to this but yeah it kind of is your own fault....
You can make up whatever you want to make yoy able to sleep tonight but in the end the world thinks it's yout fault.
I hate children die due to this but yeah it kind of is your own fault....
You can make up whatever you want to make yoy able to sleep tonight but in the end the world thinks it's yout fault.
- 29,349
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I know you are not a native English speaker, but please try to check and correct your posts prior to posting.
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Another tragic waste of innocent lives, and while there are seemingly no easy answers to America's horrific gun violence problem, it still beggars belief how anyone (mentally ill or not) can amass the ammunition and arms required to carry out such a brutal assault without facing some serious hurdles to obtaining and keeping these items, and/or face some serious questions from law enforcement. There are good reasons why innocent, law-abiding people may wish to arm themselves to protect against such an attack, but it is inviting tragedy when the law permits people to acquire enough firepower to commit an atrocity of this kind with such apparent ease.
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,774
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
For everyone using the Australia comparison - The Aussies have a much easier time controlling weapons entering and leaving because it is an island.
The States shares a massive land border with Mexico, which has a drug and gun problem. Apples and oranges, people.
The States shares a massive land border with Mexico, which has a drug and gun problem. Apples and oranges, people.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
It is my understanding the shooter bought the AR-15 legally at a legitimate dealer. Even though he was identified by his peers as dangerous, and known to the FBI as well, no successful effort was made to prevent him from legally acquiring the rifle.
Back in the day before the AR-15, in the 1966 Texas Tower incident, a skilled marksman using an M1 carbine and 6mm bolt-action hunting rifle killed 13 and injured 39. He supposedly suffered from a brain tumor.
Since then, mass shootings have proliferated greatly. Back in 1966, we had a highly conformist society, youth were under much more strict control, and the very easy to shoot AR-15 was not in public hands. We are not going back to this type of society. Tant pis.
To add to the problems, it is virtually impossible to amend the 2nd Amendment due to the almost overwhelming legal hurdles to change the constitution.
So, if we really want to stop mass shootings in schools, and we can't change society and we can't change the constitution, then how do we do it? Very simply, we can use yet more violence and technology to correct for the violence and technology we have already unleashed. Like in Israel, we could have a certain percentage of school teachers trained and armed. We could fortify school campuses with high walls, checkpoints and armed drones.
Back in the day before the AR-15, in the 1966 Texas Tower incident, a skilled marksman using an M1 carbine and 6mm bolt-action hunting rifle killed 13 and injured 39. He supposedly suffered from a brain tumor.
Since then, mass shootings have proliferated greatly. Back in 1966, we had a highly conformist society, youth were under much more strict control, and the very easy to shoot AR-15 was not in public hands. We are not going back to this type of society. Tant pis.
To add to the problems, it is virtually impossible to amend the 2nd Amendment due to the almost overwhelming legal hurdles to change the constitution.
So, if we really want to stop mass shootings in schools, and we can't change society and we can't change the constitution, then how do we do it? Very simply, we can use yet more violence and technology to correct for the violence and technology we have already unleashed. Like in Israel, we could have a certain percentage of school teachers trained and armed. We could fortify school campuses with high walls, checkpoints and armed drones.
- 4,559
- Minnesota
- TJ136
It's sad to see all this happen.
What's even more sad is that there were "threats" to have another one at the same school a few days later.
Then a 11 year old was arrested for making threats to her school.
I think the whole media has gone to be where once it happens they have constant information instead of not showing it so others don't have the idea.
Then their is social media.
That cannot be stopped but at lease don't let it be blasted so others can say if he can do it so can I.
What's even more sad is that there were "threats" to have another one at the same school a few days later.
Then a 11 year old was arrested for making threats to her school.
I think the whole media has gone to be where once it happens they have constant information instead of not showing it so others don't have the idea.
Then their is social media.
That cannot be stopped but at lease don't let it be blasted so others can say if he can do it so can I.
My apologies, I'll check my texts a bit more before posting. I have no spelchecker on my cellphone so sorry about those. But I can at least try and minimize the typo's.
And while it is an understandable reaction to want to arm yourself. But it's the lack of regulation (or the lack of possibility to enforce those regulations) that people crave as they want to arm themself for defense purposes that opens the door for those less then stable people easily getting a gun.
I understand the feeling, but the effect is the opposite of what they want to achieve (that is safety).
Also I spoke to some americans who believe we (belgians/europeans) can't have guns. This is not true! We don't oppose gunownership we think that not everyone should be able to own one. Kind of like a car on the public road, you can't just buy a car and drive on the public road a liscense is required.
- 1,684
- Houston, TX
- The_TetsuKobura
Quit believing everything CNN says. There have not been 18 school shootings similar to the one carried out a couple of days ago. If you bothered to actually read the thread, that argument was broken down by someone who listed at least half of these “shootings.”I'm sorry but thos has to he said. It is exactly this sentiment that makes the USA believe gun laws or wrong.
Now please take a step back. Considering there have been 18 school shootings in the usa this year and I'm 26years old and lived in belgium all my life what was the last shoolshooting we've had? That's rigth, NONE. The closest we've had coming to this case where it was just a shooting was 'hans van temsche' we've changed our gun laws after that event. For the better!
This might be rude of me but people acting like the way 'gun use' is implemented in the usa is not the issue deserve nothing more but this outcome. When time and time again statistics shows you're wrong on a macro level and you keep denying it well then live with it! To paraphrase einstein, "to repeat the same experiment over and over and expecting a diffrent outcome is truly insanity.".
The harder guns are to get the morr the price rises on the black market
I thought americans would know this by now?
- 31,701
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
That's 3 too many. If you (not you in person) think in any way that's not too bad, you're an idiot.
Edit
According to this site it's 7 actual attacks and 1 incidental death. And a whole bunch of fired guns.
There is no way to defend these stats. Not one good reason.
Last edited:
- 7,618
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I think it would be more difficult to disable all/many guns at a specific location that it would be to enable one gun only at a specific location. The former has to deal with guns and security systems of various types and would probably require some cooperation or standardization between manufacturers. It also wouldn't do anything for older guns with no safety. A gun that comes with it's own "leash" just needs to have that one gun talk with its security system, so I'd think it would be simpler. Also the gun owner in this situation can just get rid off the less secure guns.
It's not clear. If you did successfully remove guns from the US, gun deaths would be impossible. That doesn't stop deaths by other means though.
I have no doubt that killers are drawn to guns due to the ease with which they allow you to kill, but sometimes I also wonder if the sensationalization of shootings also contributes to the choice of weapons among murderers.
- 140
- Melbourne, Australia
- 1,684
- Houston, TX
- The_TetsuKobura
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,774
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
Teens arrested after Snapchat threats, "Round 2 of Florida tomorrow".
Schools and police nationwide are on very high alert following the arrest of several teens making copycat threats, especially one Arkansas student who sent a photo of himself wearing a partial mask and wielding an AR-15 derivative with the caption "Round 2 of Florida tomorrow".
Story:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...uneasiness-in-schools-after-florida-shooting/
Edit: Jesus Christ, these teens.
Schools and police nationwide are on very high alert following the arrest of several teens making copycat threats, especially one Arkansas student who sent a photo of himself wearing a partial mask and wielding an AR-15 derivative with the caption "Round 2 of Florida tomorrow".
Story:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...uneasiness-in-schools-after-florida-shooting/
Edit: Jesus Christ, these teens.
- 1,684
- Houston, TX
- The_TetsuKobura
- 140
- Melbourne, Australia
Europe shares a larger border than that of the US, with countries around the border (both in/out of Europe) including Ukraine, Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq.... I think that's fairly comparable in terms of shadiness. And fair enough I apologise, I could have put it less rudely. 👍
I don't believe the border is helping. I believe just believe that it's a desperate excuse for a pro-gun lobbyist.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,473
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
A wall will do nothing to curtail anything and just end up being a massive waste of money and resources. It's not like smugglers are simply walking through the desert with loads of guns, drugs, and people bring them into the US ( I mean some are, but the cartels are smarter than that). And even if they did, a boarder security system that can be defeated with a ladder or tunnel is pointless.
I also believe many of the illegal, untraceable guns originate in Philippines.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,701
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Isn't the main issue actually guns leaving the US and heading into Mexico rather than the other way around (not that the wall would stop that either)?
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/united-states-guns-trafficking-mexico-cartels/
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,774
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
The shooter has confessed to shooting the students in the hallways.
He is facing 17 counts of premeditated murder.
Edit:
https://nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html
He is facing 17 counts of premeditated murder.
Edit:
https://nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-shooting.html
- 7,618
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
That's a slightly different question. Massacres are subset of deaths, and I don't really consider them any worse than having those deaths spread out by time and distance. It's horrible to experience a loss no matter how many other people were involved. You also have to consider what the underlying issue(s) with the US is. If it's guns, then removing the guns would solve the problem. If it's people's willingness to kill, then removing the guns isn't going to solve the problem, although removing guns could change the statistics in a number of ways.
I guess the point you're making is that more gun control could have prevented a specific event from happening or protected a certain group. That's true but I don't think that's how the issue should be approached. Looking at events in isolation doesn't necessarily point to the best solution in general.
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