Passing

[JohnBM01]

Some people dislike road racing because there is "no passing." But even the most heated NASCAR race can still be quite a blowout if you know what you're getting yourself into. If you ask me, passing isn't anything to seriously consider. If there is very little passing in a form of motorsport, then that means that racing is more defense than offense, just like in football. If there is a lot of passing, it means that racing is more offense than defense. Now I will admit. I actually saw a little of the end of the Talladega race this year. PASSING is the topic here, folks, so let me get started.

Let me explain something. As I've said in another thread before, you can't NASCAR your way through racing. If you want passing, just go to your local dirt oval Friday or Saturday night and have a whale of a time. The reason why there is "no passing" is because not all drivers are alike. Audi, Michael Scumacher, Jimmie Johnson this past weekend, and all other dominant racers active in motorsport are at their best. Now sure, sports are about drama and comeback, but as much as I hate to say it, sometimes you just have to let these drivers and teams dominate. A racer's ability to dominate a race is a mark of extreme concentration and devotion. So can the "no passing" talk, okay? Do you think that Barry Bonds, Shaquille O' Neal, Tom Brady, and Wayne Gretzky are boring because no one has a chance to stop them? Well racing isn't boring. I'd rather see a racer dominate an event flag-to-flag than have a pure road racing event that has the action of a Saturday night dirt track race. And even then, I'd rather watch the JGTC for drama and action. And there is even passing in the JGTC, so don't tell me that pure race cars can't pass. It takes speed and skill to pass, they aren't given away like in oval racing.

Reply about passing, please. I've spoken up, now it's your turn.

 

[Mike Rotch]

From a formula one pespective, sports administrators seem to be confusing Michael's dominance with the fact that today's F1 cars rely so heavily on aerodynamic grip, that overtaking is virtually impossible.

F1 cars rely so heavily on aero grip because the FIA in their infinite wisdom subtracted mechanical grip in an effort to slow the cars down. So the grooved and narrower tyres and thinner cars have complied with the regulations, and in doing so drastically reduced the scope for overtaking.

 

[kart racer]

Karting also has very little passing.You have to be up close to the kart in front of you to take advantage of any mistakes.Sometimes you get by and sometimes you don't but it makes for some great racing.5 or 6 karts going 75mph, nose to tail is a wounderful thing to see.

 

[RallyF1]

do not get me started here , everybody knows my stand regarding A SS CAR, i'n nascarphobic. just hearing that word turns me upside down.....................o.k. time for medication

did you really have to discuss this subject, i'm fealling nauseous . hold on a second , little bit better.
so you where talking about passing, there is so much passing in A SS CAR that they make up for all the passing that should happen in other motorsports. you see that was a well thought out logical fallacy from me

but that does not eliminate the fact that A SS CAR is the, and please do not take it personal but it is true, the stupidest single left-handed-red-necked-dull-boring-utterly-ridiculous-waste-of-money-money-wasting-motorsport........................

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PAIN

i guess that's it for today

 

[JohnBM01]

Is there a doctor in the house? (^_^)

 

[Blake]

Uhhh....well said RallyF1....I think

 

[3rdgenracerX]

Nascar was once a low passing series in the 80's. You gotta give them credit for making it possible for cars to pass.

IE, just how they took some height away from the rear spoiler to lower the severity of causing the car thats attempting to pass from getting understeer.

Most racing series are relying more and more on aero packages to get the car around the track faster than before. The byproduct is less passing because the passing car cant get around due to them loosing some downforce due to being in the draft.

IRL comes to mind alot, not to mention they have to be the most injury causing race series on the planet at the moment.

 

[cornjedi]

Originally posted by 3rdgenracerX
[B

IRL comes to mind alot, not to mention they have to be the most injury causing race series on the planet at the moment. [/B]

I totally agree. I started 20 years ago watching nascar and since then open wheel racing and the like, and find all the passing boring. Nascar prefers to bump the car ahead to pass (works great for me in video games, but a bore to watch) and IRL is a train wreck waiting to happen. I now find myself following other series (ALMS, Le Mans, F1, etc.) because passing is by catching the person ahead and passing by their mistakes, which I believe to be all the more compelling than anything else. That is why Nascar and IRL is only more interesting in the final lap or two as the 2nd place car, if close enough, can hunt down the leader and pass to win.

 

[JohnBM01]

The question I'd like to ask next is, why do you think American motorsports fans make such a big deal about passing? I mean, when I seen the Homestead race in Grand-Am earlier this year, one of the pit reporters for Speed Channel called it a "short track race at Bristol." Of course, I couldn't care a lot about Rolex Sportscar because it's going to evolve into road racing NASCAR, but why do you think people in America make such a fussbudget about passing?

 

[Blake]

That's interesting, why do the Americans make motorsport series entirly based around passing?

 

[millencolin]

Originally posted by 3rdgenracerX
IRL comes to mind alot, not to mention they have to be the most injury causing race series on the planet at the moment.

couldnt agree more. Punkrock had some list of every injury in IRL's existance, which isnt long. the list is scary

EDIT

found it click me please

 

[cornjedi]

Originally posted by Blake
That's interesting, why do the Americans make motorsport series entirly based around passing?

I think it simply has to do with the evolution of the series. Before CART/IRL broke in two, it was less about passing but a fairly reasonably watched event. NASCAR has only become main stream in the last 10 years. Even F1 is talking about bringing a more even playing field and passing may become a more prevalent part of the races. And lets not only pass it off to Americans, otherwise the Days of Thunder series would not be established across the pond.

 

[JohnBM01]

You know, I tend to agree with the downforce thing. If you ask me, not to offend, but some American race fans will find any excuse to downplay real racing in an effort to get back to ovals and dirt tracking. I created this thread to discuss passing because some American people think that there is no passing in road racing and that anything that isn't Bristol, Martinsville, or Talladega is bull****. When I got into racing, I got into it from CART and the ALMS (in its debut year of 1999 to be exact). I watched NASCAR still. But I'm like Jeff Gordon, only opposite. Gordon got into racing from Midgets and stuff, I got into racing from road racing. And when was the last time you heard of a flag-to-flag victory in NASCAR? Last I could recall is Jeff Burton at Loudon in... 2000 I think.

Racing is only "boring" because there seems to be no real competition. And as much as I hate to say it, that's the way racing is. I mean, screw the passing and stuff that WindTunnel's "Hometown Horsepower" segments. I mean, Dave Despain put down a pure racing video of some club racing, and say that this dirt track action is better. I'm upset as a race fan when passing is a big issue, and especially in America. I mean, I've seen football games go from blowouts to being a field goal apart from victory. Close competition is good, but you have to remember. You are looking at race cars.

If you have a chance to see Le Mans next weekend, damn it to hell, you watch that race. It may not sound like much, but I'm going to tape the first two hours, or if I'm lucky, maybe more on a different VCR. Then, I'll play that damn thing sometime after the race is over. But the main point is that, you have to understand. "Stock Cars" are glorified economy bumper cars where if you win, you can be spoiled with trash and beer cans. RACE CARS, like in Le Mans and stuff, are advanced racing machines that far exceed most other types of racing. Even go-karting is more interesting. But don't tell me that no passing is allowed in road racing. People have to be trained and talented to make passing happen. They aren't given away. So if you dislike road racing because of "no passing" and "boring racing," I think you need to re-evaluate what a race car is to race cars that never were.

Get some diapers, watch "Sesame Street," go play in your baby crib, and grow the hell up. Preaching over.

 

[3rdgenracerX]

Originally posted by JohnBM01
But the main point is that, you have to understand. "Stock Cars" are glorified economy bumper cars where if you win, you can be spoiled with trash and beer cans. RACE CARS, like in Le Mans and stuff, are advanced racing machines that far exceed most other types of racing.

You know if Nacasr would let teams go and let teams do what they want with the cars engines then you'd get a high tech race car which is the only classification of a race car in your books. They keep things level and fair to every compettitor, thats why on any given weekend 36ish cars have a chance of winning. Not like other series where a few cars have the chance at winning because of being able to spend more green you will be able to win easier.

Have you ever considered that? Why is nascar so popular, is it because of the ovals? IRL runs ovals, noone really watches them anymore. Is it because of the crashes? Every racing series has crashes, IRL's the worst in that. You'd think if Nascar fans watch to see the crashes then wouldnt you think that they'd watch IRL for the horenuds crashes they have. So wait, what were the Irl averearage ratings for this season so far? If thats the crowd who watch nascar and Irl for thier wrecks then its a small crowd.
Is it because every now and then people bump and bang on the track or that some people will run into the back of another car to pass? I know of many nextel cup drivers, busch drivers, truck drivers, weekely race drives that will race cleanly and come in 2nd if they have to rather than bumping the leader to pass. Bobby Labonte comes to mind. Is it because of the current uptoday chassis technology and the old school engine's maximized with as much technology as the scantioning body will allow? Nascar could be popular fo any of those reasons, the main reason is that People like the series because they have their favorite drivers, when you can root for almost anyone in the top 36 to win then you have something to watch.

Can alms hold a candle to nascar popularity wise, no. You have a few cars racing for the win every race in their respective class, and lots of 3rd place and back finishers who are laps down from the 1st and 2nd place guy in their respecitve classes. Its because of being able to throw as much green into technology as you can.
See thats boring to nearly everyone when you have one person or a couple of cars winning every week. I highly doubt that Nascar would be popular for long if Dale Jr or Jeff Gordon won every week un challenged for the win. If you already know who is going to pretty much take the win why bother to watch.


Good god get over your presumption that Nascar cars arent race cars, just because they still call them "stock cars" from when they were real cars back in the late 40's to the mid 70's they were stock cars taken from car dealerships and modified to race. Then in the mid 70's they went to a full tublar chasis with a body or shell put on top of that, reminds me of other race cars in other series. The only reason why they are still called "stock cars" is because they somewhat resemlbe the front end and rear end of the real life cars. The only differences are the currentness of engines regulations put on them. Cant go with todays fuel injection if its stipulated in the rules that you cant. F1 teams cant use turbos anymore because the rules state that. Does it make a F1 chasis any less of a race car since they cant run a turbo's? Nope it doesnt, the race cars are still race cars. They are just having to follow the rules of the scantioning body.

BTW do you call the ASA race cars "race cars"? They run full tublar chasis, and run current today LS1 corvette/camaro/trans am fuel injected engines.

Race cars are and will always be a vehicle new or old that is used to race against other people, F1, ALMS, BTCC, Nascar, Cascar, IRL, Cart, Toyota Atlantic, Mazda Pro series, SCCA, Trans Am, NHRA, IHRA, Karting, WRC.....ect ect

 

[JohnBM01]

Well now that I think about it, do some of the road racing cars have a good enough slipstream for racers to enter a draft with? After all, 43 racers at Talladega aren't the only ones who can draft all day long. That wasn't a NASCAR rant, by the way. With Le Mans coming up, it would be interesting to see the cars push 170 mph on the Mulsanne. Wouldn't be surprised to see any overtaking there.

 

[kart racer]

Alot of American ( not all) feel that if the cars are not trying to pass, there is no chance of a crash.So they think the race is boring.It is just what they are use to at short tracks.Someday they will relize that a good close race with less passing is alot more intence.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Originally posted by Blake
That's interesting, why do the Americans make motorsport series entirly based around passing?

I reckon that is because there is more excitement that way.

 

[emad]

The only racing I ever watch is WRC and on rare occasions, I'll watch F1. I'm not a fan of watching racing in general simply because you're seeing the same 8 to 40 cars going around the same turns 50+ times. It's not very interesting except near the end. With WRC, things get interesting. The course conditions are constantly changing and you'll never see the exact same course twice

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Originally posted by radicool02
I reckon that is because there is more excitement that way.

And you wouldn't be watching a parade go by really, really fast. You'd be watching a race.