PD must be doing something awesome.
- Thread starter Fantomas666
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- machschnel
But wasn't GT5 meant to be the foundation for GT6? If you want to be technical about it, wouldn't that mean that a lot of the work that went into GT6 was already at least partially completed during the process of making GT5, thus rendering the day GT6 "went gold" somewhat irrelevant?
- 2,605
- Newport
- NFSCARBON1
Is it possible GT6 disks went gold with plenty of time left, but the mandatory day 1 patch is what wasn't ready? Given the apparent issues PD has had getting updates out on time, I'd bet that the first was on track to be late too.
- 13,911
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- Neomone
That's almost exactly the point that was being made.
In fact, it would be quite reasonable to question if it will actually be finished at all. Earliest expectations for GT7 put it within the next year, and at the rate PD are working by then we may have no more than another couple of VGTs and a Red Bull spaceship or two.
Finishing the list of future updates that they've set themselves seems like a big ask in nine months, given that they've managed to do exactly none of it since release.
How dedicated are they to finishing GT6, if it means holding off on the release of GT7?
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- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
This is the question, isn't it. And it depends on... you know, SONY.
I wouldn't be surprised that they see a lot of grumbling for GT7 on PS4 in the gaming community, look at the sales figures for GT6, and put one and one together. Of course it depends. PD gave us some nice updates to GT5 while working on 6, but this is a different environment altogether, with a next gen console which is almost crying for a good racing game.
If I was Kaz, I'd sell SONY on a GT7 Prologue so I could finish or mostly finish work on GT6. I know that some people throw fits at the thought of another Prologue, but it would likely sell at GT5P levels, especially if it was at least as good as GT5P. Then I could have a cushion to work with in both GT6 and 7. But it depends on... you know, SONY.
We'll have a better idea of what the deal is by E3.
- 644
- Dordrecht
- Squanto666
Just stumbled across This, might be old news to you ... but I think it isn't far from the truth...If I was Kaz, I'd sell SONY on a GT7 Prologue so I could finish or mostly finish work on GT6. I know that some people throw fits at the thought of another Prologue, but it would likely sell at GT5P levels, especially if it was at least as good as GT5P. Then I could have a cushion to work with in both GT6 and 7. But it depends on... you know, SONY.
We'll have a better idea of what the deal is by E3.
The insider also revealed that the publisher will be announcing a prologue version of "Gran Turismo 7".Although Polyphony Digital is currently working on the post-launch support for “Gran Turismo 6,”
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- Neomone
This is the question, isn't it. And it depends on... you know, SONY.
Of course it does. Any time PD does something stupid, it's obviously Sony's fault.
This is sort of the problem though. That sounds like a good idea, but putting together a Prologue will presumably take time. That's manpower diverted from GT6. Then presumably once it's out there will be a push to get GT7 itself out within a year, because the whole GT5P/GT5 thing was a bit of a fiasco. That means a major proportion of manpower dedicated to GT7 after the Prologue is released if they don't want GT7 to be FM5: Part 2.
Which really, doesn't leave much for working on GT6. The only way I can see this being of benefit to the purchasers of GT6 is if actually, they weren't going to get anything else on GT6 otherwise. At least this way they get some followup, however little.
And I don't think that's particularly cool. If the plan at any point is to try and work around the idea of simply ditching GT6 and moving on, no matter which side of the fence it comes from, I think Sony and PD can take that and ram it up their bottoms sideways.
Abandoning GT6 shouldn't even be an option, and so no plans should be being made to try and ameliorate that.
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- MadHax
- M8DH8X
I fear something bad is happening between PD and SONY, I dunno call it a hunch maybe but I don't think PD or maybe more SONY was happy about that 20mil glitch from day 1 patch.
To me it is very weird that this new method of trying to make extra cash for things that can be collected by playing the game to be a new option for them to take, it is very greedy looking. Instead why not concentrate on DLC based on what people want? gee I dunno maybe PD could setup a thread with a vote for car or track content?
This new practice is a worrying trend that I hope will be stopped in it's tracks. Hasn't people noticed that these two particular games on PS3 have opted for a player to be able to buy credits? Not only that but making the game feel boring and too grindy to be able to get what you want.
To me it is very weird that this new method of trying to make extra cash for things that can be collected by playing the game to be a new option for them to take, it is very greedy looking. Instead why not concentrate on DLC based on what people want? gee I dunno maybe PD could setup a thread with a vote for car or track content?
This new practice is a worrying trend that I hope will be stopped in it's tracks. Hasn't people noticed that these two particular games on PS3 have opted for a player to be able to buy credits? Not only that but making the game feel boring and too grindy to be able to get what you want.
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- Neomone
I had a thought about the oddness of grinding in game tonight.
There are 1200(ish) cars in game.
Say for arguments sake that each race is five minutes long, and after each race the game gives you one car.
That's pretty much throwing cars at the player with both hands, you can't really give them away faster without just unlocking them all at the start.
So getting one car every five minute race, that's 100 hours of gameplay to get all the cars.
100 hours of driving actually, plus whatever other gameplay/tuning/customisation/etc seems pretty good to me. I'd think anyone who got that far is obviously enjoying themselves enough that they'll probably keep going. I strongly suspect that your average GT player doesn't get anywhere near a hundred hours.
But the big boys seem to instead have gone for as close to the F2P model as possible. Grind 'em out, and make 'em pay.
There are 1200(ish) cars in game.
Say for arguments sake that each race is five minutes long, and after each race the game gives you one car.
That's pretty much throwing cars at the player with both hands, you can't really give them away faster without just unlocking them all at the start.
So getting one car every five minute race, that's 100 hours of gameplay to get all the cars.
100 hours of driving actually, plus whatever other gameplay/tuning/customisation/etc seems pretty good to me. I'd think anyone who got that far is obviously enjoying themselves enough that they'll probably keep going. I strongly suspect that your average GT player doesn't get anywhere near a hundred hours.
But the big boys seem to instead have gone for as close to the F2P model as possible. Grind 'em out, and make 'em pay.
- 2,605
- Newport
- NFSCARBON1
GT has always,had an element of grinding/saving up in order to get the best cars, however the most recent installments have heavily skewed the system.
In GT4 big endurance races had huge payouts, while certain championships would give you valuable cars to sell ( Deutsche Touring Meisterstaff springs to mind)
GT5 had lower payouts, especially in endurance races and higher prices for the best cars. Also expensive prize cars could only be one once and couldn't be sold. Luckily log in bonus and high payout seasonals were added to let you earn quick money.
GT6 still has a low payout high price model, but there is a lack of races with half decent prize money.
Even buying credits won't really speed up how quickly you can get cars and cost a fortune in the process.
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- Johnnypenso
And it's not a gaming model that appeals to everyone, certainly at least some of us that have been through it 6 times and found it boring and repetitive. The grind needs to become just one of many optional ways to enjoy the game but my guess is you'll see the same grind or worse in GT7.
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
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- GTP_Vagabond
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- Curitiba
It's interesting to discuss this. Take GT5 official trophy stats as a starting point. The Beginner Trophy, that you earn compulsory by completing the first set of events on career mode, is unlocked to 24,7% of the players that synced their consoles with PSN. (And bear in mind that you could get this by simply doing the B-Spec version).
So, the majority of the players simply gave up on GT5 after 2 hours of playing. A more open minded developer would take this as a serious feedback about the game design. PD didn't.
In the end, the game sold 10 buzillion copies to people who didn't play it. Now, you can understand why GT6 isn't selling.
- 644
- Dordrecht
- Squanto666
now this is not right at all ... just because people don't achieve trophies don't mean they don't play the game ... you could play the game on arcade mode for years without ever earning one single trophy
- 8,723
It's a nice idea to check these stats, but you might have to explain that little leap of logic there. I alone have three GT5 saves on different accounts, for instance, and I know people who don't sync their trophies at all (I haven't done mine in a while). Also, I'd argue against the trophy being "mandatory" in any way and therefore indicative of player base; there must be ways of playing the game without getting that trophy, especially with the addition of seasonals.
Then there's the supposed issue of buying a game and not playing it at all, but I don't think that "only" playing a game for 2 hours (as if the trophy can really, concretely dictate that as fact) is really that scandalous. It's probably the norm for the average gamer (who is practically middle-aged, don't forget) in this high-turnover, new-new-new society of ours. My Steam catalogue tells me I have a lower "attention span" than that for most games I play, and that's ignoring the hundreds I've yet to play.
Would it really be that shocking to think that people sit down with a game for a few sittings and then move onto something else? Does that reflect on the quality of the game, or more our gaming habits, speaking generally and not just as a member of a particular, fanatical, enthusiast, "core" group? I think there's work to be done in separating the two.
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- Curitiba
I'm not talking about the Vettel trophy, I'm talking about the one that you get simply by completing beginners events.
Recently, PD themselves went on saying that, in any given day, 100 thousand players log in GT5 (probably always the same players). If the game really sold 10 buzillion copies, than the idea of trophies pointing the lack of interest of the consumer is something to care about. Besides, Kaz himself, on some interview about GT6, said that they notice the players didn't go much further in the game. Trouble is that he pointed that the solution to this was simply redesign the UI. Granted, the GT5's UI is rubbish and GT6's is waaay better, but clearly isn't the sollution to get more people playing this "tech demo trying to be a game", as I read here some days ago, called GT6.
Links:
https://www.gtplanet.net/over-100000-people-play-gran-turismo-5-every-day/?replytocom=164938
https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-tamir-moscovici-interview-jff-2013/
And lets just not forget that I bring the trophy stats as an indicator. I never said that the number is bulletproof regarding GT5 and GT6.
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- 8,723
I think the real issue is that most people don't want to play the game the way you think they should. Regardless of how many people you can or can't prove play(ed) the game, the one thing you cannot guarantee is that the trophy achievement rate is indicative of how much people played the game. If anything, your 100000 person per day figure casts doubt on that claim. Further, how much someone plays a game on average is not a solid metric for its "quality", for so many reasons.
About that game people don't want to play, but you think they should (in order for your trophy rate to at all be reliable): remember GT PSP? PD are no doubt thinking long and hard about how to maintain the general appeal of the game / series whilst simultaneously and progressively better accommodating the increasingly demanding "hardcore" contingent. I honestly cannot believe they've got the physics to the level they have now in GT6, I would never have expected them to do that given the scope of the game (in terms of its audience).
In the end, something has to give. I really doubt they want to make a GRiD / DiRT / SHIFT / Race Driver style game, so they're going to have to innovate something in keeping with their general approach to-date. That innovation requires risk taking and experimentation, and after the way GT PSP was received by the self-appointed hardcore, I think they're being over-cautious in making changes to the main game. That might explain the half-heartedness of GT's career mode of late: casuals don't have the staying power, and a sandbox mode is going against the tradition of the series and further alienates casuals. Tricky.
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- TRLWNC
How many of those 100K logins are duplicates for back-ups, car sharing, etc. I have two accounts, and I only have one PS3. How many have 2 accounts on multiple PS3's.... ?
- 2,979
- Curitiba
Maybe is the fact that my main language is Portuguese. Or, maybe, I should try draw it for you.
What I think about the way people play the game isn't an issue at all.
What I'm trying to say is that there are numbers which raise the question about how much of the consumers played the carreer mode of GT5. Regardless of what you think, the fact is that there are stats pointing to the fact that not many people even bother to finish the main gameplay structure of GT5.
Finally, something that I agree. I do think that Grid style isn't what they have in mind. But, what is, then?
If they don't want to make GT way too arcadish, why enforce SRF? If the physics model is the main priority on gameplay development, why there are so few options to let us shape the game accordingly to our desires?
I'm with @Johnnypenso and @VBR on this: Give people options. Make a robust game which could be play by the casual and hardcore fan.
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- 8,723
I disagree that the fact that people did not complete the game implies they didn't enjoy it. I haven't completed a GT game since GT2 (well, it's at 98% thanks to that bug). The vast majority of gamers are not like you and I, they are not that interested in racing or in cars generally - hence the game is stuck between a rock and a hard place, because "nobody" wants to play the career mode and alternatives are not easy to come up with (except maybe copying someone else, which I don't think any of us should advocate - why not innovate instead? I can wait.)
I agree. But the sad fact is that you and I are not the priority. It's taken them 15 years to get the physics simulation to the point PC sims were when the first game came out (and I never said it was the main priority!), and in fact it's probably not quite there yet. It's going to be some time before we're truly satisfied with that, I think. GT just isn't that game, and never has been.
It's not as simple as arcade or sim, either, so GRiD and SRF are not the same sort of thing by any stretch. SRF is a concession to casual players ("arcade" games have many "hardcore" followers, so there's no equivalency there either) in light of the improved physics model, and is the reason we can get such improvements in the first place. Ironically, in order for people to progress in the career mode, they need to do the licences - hence SRF being forced on. If it were an option, the trophy awarded isn't worth the same in either case (SRF on or off). That wouldn't bother me, but it would others - why should we selectively ignore those individuals on this one aspect? Who should PD listen to on any given aspect?
And it's very easy to say "make a robust game that can be enjoyed by casuals and the "hardcore"", quite another to successfully do that - something's got to give, this isn't the Never Never Land, compromise rules in the real world.
But that doesn't mean people "gave up" on the game altogether. There's also no general idea of how long it took people to earn that trophy after installing (in game time and real time), which would say much more than the reported rate of earning that trophy amongst those who synced them. PD's own data is surely more reliable on that front.
It'd be interesting to see figures for the equivalent in GT6 (B-licence?), or even GT4.
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- Neomone
There's a "get your first win" trophy in GT6. Anyone who actually played the game is pretty much guaranteed to have that.
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- Vivos71
If PD are going to release some Senna content, tomorrow wouldn't be a bad day to do it. I mean, it is his birthday after all...
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- BeasT D1gitaL
That's way too appropriate and sensible for Polyphony Digital.
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Well, I did say I had to run, and I didn't really say what I wanted to in response to Imari.
And @Imari, look. When a game is just released, and has work yet to be finished with it, and then the parent company/publisher begins making rumors about a successor prequel mini-game after just a few short months, and the developer most decidedly did not, who would you blame? Seriously.
Anyhow, about GT6 and Prologue. I had speculated myself a few days/weeks ago about how GT7 Prologue might just mean table scraps of goodies for GT6. Yes, it could be. Yes, it will suck for GT6 if true. Yes, some here will storm off in frustration, which frankly I won't mind a bit as the noise level will drop as a result. But it will mean something very cool, for us and SONY and whoever makes compatible wheel controllers for PS4.
Very few had conniptions over GT5 Prologue. Most of us were thrilled stupid over it, I was. In fact the world was too, as it was a platinum seller just from pre-orders. A lot of PS3s were sold too. This same thing is likely to happen with GT7P. Will it sell five million copies too? Who cares! The taste of a next gen Gran Turismo with 16 cars on track and FERRARI had us all going nuts, and looking forward with baited breath for GT5 itself. And as much as I love GT6, the shortcomings that PS3 forces on it are discouraging. It's still an amazing system, but it's seven years old, and Kaz pushed it about as far as he could.
I want to get that taste of what Gran Turismo can be, especially considering no one knows what tomorrow will bring to this troubled world. Be safe and happy.
