PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[RacingGrandpa]

, everyone wants a world in which every driver makes no mistakes and never barges and you always get a trophy.

No. It's ok to make mistakes, all you have to do is give the spot back and apologize in post race. Sometimes just apologize is enough.
It's not ok to barge pass, unless it's by mistake, in that case see above.
I don't care about trophies, I don't even care about wins, I just want good racing. A great battle for tenth is better than a flag to finish win.

But to be reasonable sure to get good races you have to be in the higher SR classes. DR classes is not all that important for this to happen, so my gripe is that if you in one race with the SR 99 get pushed down to SR 50 with no forward contact and no self induced track limits, then you find yourself in a bunch of lobbies where it's very hard to climb back up.
Sven can, several times this week he got the reset and worked his way back up, but for many, especially those who doesn't play on a daily basis and are maybe DR. C or B, it can take weeks to get back out. Even with care.
Is that fair that one tap from the rear can negate a whole clean race?

I am sure that from yours and @Famine viewpoint it's not that bad. Even if you get pushed down YouCan just get a lot of easy wins and go back up.
If I, and I am sure many others, get pushed down we are among a bunch of dirty players,that are equally fast. Totally different situation.

 

[DanSHW]

Part of the problem is that the system is only looking at what happens to the two cars after the moment of impact, when all the factors that determine blame happen before impact.

They could start doing things such as registering the distances between two cars entering a braking zone, and if the two cars contact and the one behind was more than two car lengths behind, they get the penalty regardless of outcome as that's definitely a divebomb. The penalties could vary from there, just a small change, but would make a big difference.

Also something should be done about cars returning from off-track, or sliding, the game knows those as separate states to just driving along, you shouldn't get penalties for hitting someone doing either.

 

[fastone371]

I haven’t seen that, then again I don’t race Monza, I was on the ring.
99 over maybe a dozen entries, once I did get dinged to 94, but won the next race against slow people back into the good rooms.
A few friends raced a fair bit and stayed 99 also far as I know...
I put in my best qual time too from the outset, didn’t race no qual.
It’s just TO ME from what I’ve seen getting dr reset really really takes some SERIOUS doing. I’d have to try to do it. Like wreck everyone near over and over...
Last week I leveled down an account to about 15k, ran no qual Gardens. Later I ran qual. I did get into it with another driver who dove on me...Went fully psycho...Back to sr C, a few races later back to 99. (Like hours of c not touching anyone at gr2 Fuji collecting sr)

Maybe it’s true that many many drivers are getting reset from A to E on dr but I doubt it.
With the current way game scoring is setup if a person cares to rank DR up it’s only ever necessary to have sr equal to dr.
So that’s racing. But, I personally find a big difference running 99 as opposed to b sr.
B sr is more arcade lesser skilled people, you will gain fewer points on dr most times there because all the best ranked players with most points stay 99.
That’s what I see. I don’t see hundreds of 99 players all going to E dr that’s ridiculous.
But seems like that’s what some are trying to imply.
Yes, there’s dirty drivers in online racing.
Kinda like real racing. Some of them are fast too.
Racing is a competition, and while in any competition most nice people prefer fair play that’s not how life is. It’s not reality.

My experience has been if you are in control of your car you control your sr.
(Over time, sure bad things happen, but getting a complete reset can’t be common)

I’m kinda playing devils advocate here, I know they need to fix the obviously flawed blame assignment, but DAMN listening to people whine gets old.
The sr system isn’t an evil villain, control your car and over time you’ll be fine

Plus don’t cry about sr if you race Monza for crying out loud. Only way I’d race there is no qual, and only then if a gun was to my head.

A lot depends on how fast you are. If you are fast enough to start out front and stay there you wont have anyone to deal with and give you penalties. If you start midfield you not only have to pay attention to what's happening in front but somehow watch all of the cars behind you. I think if everyone posted up their username or Kudos stats it would be easier to understand the complaints.

 

[Famine]

I am sure that from yours and @Famine viewpoint it's not that bad. Even if you get pushed down YouCan just get a lot of easy wins and go back up.
If I, and I am sure many others, get pushed down we are among a bunch of dirty players,that are equally fast. Totally different situation.

I suck far harder than you give me credit for, but nonetheless it's moot. SR should be doing that - you shouldn't be able to progress in DR (and thus rated driver ability) until you can demonstrate sufficient racecraft (SR) that you are not, or are rarely, involved in incidents whether of your own doing or not.

DR should be sorting out who's fast. SR should be sorting out who can keep the paint on their car. The penalty system should be sorting out who's a dick. In addition, SR and the penalty system should be a limiting factor on DR: you shouldn't be able to progress in DR without sufficient SR, and you shouldn't be able to acquire DR or SR while getting penalties.

The penalty system does indeed get it wrong a lot - probably because it looks at the incident and what happens afterwards, but doesn't (and I don't think it can) look at what happened before - but SR Down should always, always be shared. Of course that isn't what it is now, probably because of all the complaints early in the game's life from people thinking they were being punished for impacts that weren't their fault - it's not a punishment, it's simply recognition that contact happened.


If PD returned it to my middle paragraph and clearly explained that, we'd have a much better time of it.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I suck far harder than you give me credit for, but nonetheless it's moot. SR should be doing that - you shouldn't be able to progress in DR (and thus rated driver ability) until you can demonstrate sufficient racecraft (SR) that you are not, or are rarely, involved in incidents whether of your own doing or not.

DR should be sorting out who's fast. SR should be sorting out who can keep the paint on their car. The penalty system should be sorting out who's a dick. In addition, SR and the penalty system should be a limiting factor on DR: you shouldn't be able to progress in DR without sufficient SR, and you shouldn't be able to acquire DR or SR while getting penalties.

The penalty system does indeed get it wrong a lot - probably because it looks at the incident and what happens afterwards, but doesn't (and I don't think it can) look at what happened before - but SR Down should always, always be shared. Of course that isn't what it is now, probably because of all the complaints early in the game's life from people thinking they were being punished for impacts that weren't their fault - it's not a punishment, it's simply recognition that contact happened.


If PD returned it to my middle paragraph and clearly explained that, we'd have a much better time of it.

Agreed.

 

[Famine]

Agreed.

 

[fastone371]

That was my experience last week. I met a lot of clean drivers I know from earlier in SR.B and even lower on the Nord. Drivers that I used to race in SR.S, always clean and respectful. Yet when I got back to SR.S I check my players met list and 3 of them were already blocked while in lower SR it was at most one or two I had previously blocked (I block particularly bad and dirty drivers since the players met list neatly updates before the race and it gives me a quick reference who to stay away from)

Losing SR was as simple as this

That's -10 SR or max -5 SR for the race last week. Get hit one more time from behind for SR Down (no penalty needed) -15 SR for the race. Get hit another time, -25 SR for the race.

It was ridiculous, one hit from behind wiped out the progress of 2 clean contact free races. I had many clean race bonuses last week, and 5 DR resets. But perhaps PD wants me to qualify so I get a free pole to flag victory when my SR drops Matchmaking is still as much broken as the SR system. Meaningless when the 80-89 SR highest DR players get matched with the 90-99 SR lowest DR players. Those rooms don't make any sense and actively reward losing SR to get a free lunch (if you qualify )

Come on, Sven, like some people say, you are supposed to be aware and avoid getting hit like that!!!
I want someone to show me how my awareness can avoid that, that is exactly the stuff you have to deal with when you drive cautiously and find yourself in a pack. I can promise you if I am driving cautiously I will find myself consumed by the field because virtually nobody is driving cautiously. Winning is all that matters, especially L1T1.

 

[Outspacer]

DR should be sorting out who's fast. SR should be sorting out who can keep the paint on their car. The penalty system should be sorting out who's a dick. In addition, SR and the penalty system should be a limiting factor on DR: you shouldn't be able to progress in DR without sufficient SR, and you shouldn't be able to acquire DR or SR while getting penalties.

Actually it does let DR increase beyond SR (with no limit, in theory), as long as SR doesn't decrease past one of the DR resets. The numerical DR rating can rise even though the DR letter stays limited.

My opinion is that some extension of that would be a good way to implement DR resets, rather than actually resetting. Match against the numerical DR to get those types together, but score the races as if every opponent has the limited DR (so no real points on offer).

 

[Famine]

Actually it does let DR increase beyond SR (with no limit, in theory), as long as SR doesn't decrease past one of the DR resets. The numerical DR rating can rise even though the DR letter stays limited.

I know what it does, I'm saying what it should do (but doesn't).

 

[Outspacer]

I know what it does, I'm saying what it should do (but doesn't).

I almost commented on how 'should' was your new favourite word but thought better of it!

Not trying to teach you. Just served as an intro to offering up an alternative thought on what the DR resets should do.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

DR should be sorting out who's fast. SR should be sorting out who can keep the paint on their car. The penalty system should be sorting out who's a dick. In addition, SR and the penalty system should be a limiting factor on DR: you shouldn't be able to progress in DR without sufficient SR, and you shouldn't be able to acquire DR or SR while getting penalties.

That contradicts each other. DR should be completely independent of SR. People need to stop looking at it as a grade system. PD should never have used grades and boundaries for DR imo. The extra 1500 for going up or down a grade already messes with match making, and DR resets (or limiting DR gains) make even less sense when you want to sort on speed.

SR should sort out who can behave on track and place like minded racers together. Hence I like the idea to also deduct SR for dangerous driving, shortcuts, wall scrapes, crossing the pit exit line, spinning out losing control, having to be ghosted. Then let the frequency of (deductions + contacts) / time driven be the sorting factor.

Penalties create trouble on the track either at the penalty zone or the finish. Better to bring the DQ system back. Knock a car off 3 times and you're out. Get DQ twice in a row or for a third time on a single day and you get locked out of sport mode for 24h.

 

[Famine]

That contradicts each other.

In what way?

 

[Groundfish]

A lot depends on how fast you are. If you are fast enough to start out front and stay there you wont have anyone to deal with and give you penalties. If you start midfield you not only have to pay attention to what's happening in front but somehow watch all of the cars behind you. I think if everyone posted up their username or Kudos stats it would be easier to understand the complaints.

Basically my whole career before lately was midpack once I got upper B.
99 sr. People often say here that if you are midpack you will lose sr.
My entire career first account is evidence to the contrary, however I drove conservatively and didn’t engage in multi car battles and only initiated overtakes when I clearly had position.
My philosophy was any race with earning even one point was a success regardless of overall finish. I was a midpack ‘filler’
many many many races but mostly I achieved a few points per race and over time those points add up...

There were sr drops, like anyone I run out of patience sometimes and lose it.
I do prefer the sr loss for penalties and contact strict, because it keeps the 99 lobbies decent.
Many times you will race and have 3-4 clean and proper then you will have some maniac enter and cause problems. Honestly it’s best to give them a wide berth if the system is operating. The player won’t make it into that lobby next race...
I’ve often looked up players where I thought wth is this guy 99? Really?
Nine times from ten they are at an sr ‘peak’ and are not reg 99 players.
At 99 tolerance is low, but it tends to be if you don’t bother other players with dumb moves they race you fairly. (For the most part)
Imo most players would be best served simply focusing on maintaining position running clean and waiting for mistakes.
Even in daily sprints patience goes a long long way.
If sr drops were NOT strict on a race by race basis chaos ensues, as evidenced by times when this concept was already tried by PD.
Give respect get respect.
Edit, I always do my best to qualify my best before entry...

 

[symaski62]

https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gtsport/news/00_5616433.html

Beginning with the next Stage of the FIA GT Championships on Saturday 25 April, the time penalty issued when the 'Tyre Requirement' is not observed during a race in the Nations Cup or Manufacturer Series will change as follows:

・The Time Penalty will increase from the current 20 seconds to 60 seconds.

Thank you for your continued support and please continue to enjoy Gran Turismo Sport!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

In what way?

DR should be sorting out who's fast.

In addition, SR and the penalty system should be a limiting factor on DR: you shouldn't be able to progress in DR without sufficient SR, and you shouldn't be able to acquire DR or SR while getting penalties.

You can't have both, either DR is a measure of speed or DR is capped by SR.

DR being limited by SR is what leads to purposeful DR resets to get easy victories. It wouldn't be any different if DR couldn't progress because of SR. Matchmaking will be better when DR.A SR.D drivers would battle each other instead of get lost in the ocean of DR.D to DR.B drivers.

I've also purposefully reset my DR to be able to actually start last instead of mid field on a Monday when not qualifying. I'll gladly give that up when the penalty system gets a bit better.

There are also still people that quit a race when they can't win to sandbag DR for easier races. Not sure what to do about that.



Matchmaking needs to be fixed as well, instead of adding high DR lower SR to low DR higher SR it should add low DR lower SR to low DR higher SR.

What happens now is, matchmaking starts by taking everyone in the 90-99 SR range, sorts them on DR and fills rooms from high to low DR.
The last room ends with D/S (90-99 SR) and has spots left open.
Next matchmaking takes everyone in the 80-89 SR range, sorts them on DR and continues filling the last room, etc.
Thus the left over spots in the D/S (90-99 SR) room get filled with A+/S (80-89 SR).
This continues all the way down, step by step.

It's very lucrative for fast people to drive (slightly) dirty to win or get into easier rooms. When they get caught they get handed a pole to flag victory to 'earn' back SR. (The contrast is biggest between 90-99 SR and 80-89 SR since SR.S is much bigger than SR.A, while SR.B is much bigger than both so you have less of that cross over problem)

The simple fix, instead of filling up the last room with the highest DR of that lower SR section, add the lowest DR. So D/S (90-99 SR) gets to race D/S (80-89 SR)

 

[Groundfish]

The other part of matching is q time. If you are B S 99 and have a good q time you get matched with A and A plus.
I always q up when I want competitive racing at my level. One thing I do think though is that if you spend way too much time achieving a unicorn lap and think that’s safest imo that’s incorrect. This is because you won’t have the racepace. Racepace is very important to SR and DR. It’s dangerous to be a very different pace than those around you on the grid.
I’ve seen many times a person enter the 99 lobby with no racepace and get angry when they get moved out of the way.
But remember being slow in front places those behind that you are holding up at risk.
If someone behind is clearly faster in 99 rooms best not to fight being overtaken, keep traffic flowing.
I think many times players complain about being swarmed by dirty drivers in race, well, don’t qual 8 seconds faster than you can lap repeatedly. The one lap wonder driver is a hazard to all.
I recommend NEVER hitting retry on qual. Just lap, build up bit by bit, then you will have a much better time in race. Retry crash retry crash turns you into a one lap wonder, without ability to run alternate lines which is important to maintaining sr.
All this said C 99 on NA server is probably the most clean imo. They are cautious.
Just being s a race or two is one thing but stay 99 a few races and see the matching improve jmo. When you get matched into higher rooms as filler take it as a compliment, keep your nose clean and be patient. You can benefit a lot this way.

 

[Famine]

You can't have both, either DR is a measure of speed or DR is capped by SR.

Of course you can have both.

DR is a measure of speed, SR a measure of racecraft, and you need both to be a top-tier racing driver. Or backing from the national bank of Venezuela, but that's not in the game.

Remember the phrase "To finish first, first you must finish"? That's the point of SR limiting DR - if you can't get through races without being involved in incidents (impacting SR), then it doesn't matter how fast you are (DR), you simply shouldn't be in the higher echelons. Obviously GT Sport doesn't have the concept of race-ending damage (or mechanical failure), but the basic notion is the same.

I guess it's also the point of SR being the primary matchmaking criterion. If you're fast but have no racecraft, you shouldn't be matched with players who have racecraft but not speed, or players who have both (or neither).

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Well. I took my SR from 61 to 88 in one race C. I drove with only SR in mind, but still got hammered by sideswiped, rear-punters and brake-checkers.
Strangely enough I only lost 300 DR.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Of course you can have both.

DR is a measure of speed, SR a measure of racecraft, and you need both to be a top-tier racing driver. Or backing from the national bank of Venezuela, but that's not in the game.

Remember the phrase "To finish first, first you must finish"? That's the point of SR limiting DR - if you can't get through races without being involved in incidents (impacting SR), then it doesn't matter how fast you are (DR), you simply shouldn't be in the higher echelons. Obviously GT Sport doesn't have the concept of race-ending damage (or mechanical failure), but the basic notion is the same.

I guess it's also the point of SR being the primary matchmaking criterion. If you're fast but have no racecraft, you shouldn't be matched with players who have racecraft but not speed, or players who have both (or neither).

Top tier race drivers will be A+/S. Fast dirty drivers will be A+/B, what's the problem with that?

DR is not a score, it's not a grade, it's no a status symbol, it's simply a number based on who and how often you finish in front of lower DR players. That's all it is, right in the formula to calculate DR. Any outside influences to limit DR either by resets, +1500 rank up bonus or -1500 de rank penalty, or simply capping it on SR, wrecks the purpose of the underlying elo rating system.

SR is the primary matchmaking factor, it doesn't need to influence DR. SR influencing DR only limits the usefulness and meaning of DR. The two should be separated, letters should simply be removed or hidden, who cares. All it was used for is to give harsher penalties to higher DR players, another reason to sand bag DR.

DR not limited by SR achieves exactly what you want:

If you're fast (DR.A) but have no race craft (SR.C) you get matched with other A/C drivers.
If you have race craft (SR.S) but no speed (DR.C) you get matched with other C/S drivers.

What happens now that DR.A drivers get reset and become pole to flag easy victory racers and will be C/S in no time and you get fast no race craft drivers getting matched with no speed good race craft drivers.

 

[Groundfish]

The thing is myself and some others have discussed making sr affect dr even MORE.
This would curb dirty driving further because let’s say you win a race with three sr down or something.
There should be a point where the system says nope no dr for you too dirty. Distribute the remaining dr to others by position.
One thing too, the scoring system is all together and all points count and affect FIA.
So there’s more to it than simply matching like players with like by sr.
Points play into things because it’s a competition.
Myself and some others think it would be a good idea to have an sr threshold whereby you lose a certain amount of sr in race you forfeit all dr gained.
Remove motivation for dirty driving by adjusting scoring.
It hinges on strict sr down for significant incidents.
Right now the system, if you stay 99 then snap and drop to A sr the system will match you next race against easy competition for you if you are say A. You’ll be placed into position where you must win and run away from s bunch of c or what have you...not much dr gain opportunity.
If it’s not a long race you might have to do this several times to regain 99, so I think that it’s sort of the intent to function as I described above, because you don’t gain any dr from seal clubbing.

 

[Famine]

Top tier race drivers will be A+/S. Fast dirty drivers will be A+/B, what's the problem with that?

DR is not a score, it's not a grade, it's no a status symbol, it's simply a number based on who and how often you finish in front of lower DR players.

It's a ranking - one of two that exist in the game.

Imagine a real racing driver. Dude is fast and streaks out ahead most races - clearly the most talented driver on the grid. But he DNFs because he cannot keep it on the grey stuff, bouncing off crash barriers, back markers, or just straight launching it through kerbs and smashing the sump off. Half the time the car comes back on a flatbed, needing a new engine, gearbox and... car, while the rear wing goes home with the fans who picked it up. He's never going to get to F1/LMP1/GT3/pick a high level series, because his lower tier teams can't afford to keep him on board, so he never has the opportunity to prove how fast he is in higher series.

His SR limits his DR.

As above, so below. Someone should not be eligible for the top rank of driver rating - and the higher points scores available in the high DR lobbies - if they simply do not have the racecraft. Their SR should limit their DR.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

It's a ranking - one of two that exist in the game.

Imagine a real racing driver. Dude is fast and streaks out ahead most races - clearly the most talented driver on the grid. But he DNFs because he cannot keep it on the grey stuff, bouncing off crash barriers, back markers, or just straight launching it through kerbs and smashing the sump off. Half the time the car comes back on a flatbed, needing a new engine, gearbox and... car, while the rear wing goes home with the fans who picked it up. He's never going to get to F1/LMP1/GT3/pick a high level series, because his lower tier teams can't afford to keep him on board, so he never has the opportunity to prove how fast he is in higher series.

His SR limits his DR.

As above, so below. Someone should not be eligible for the top rank of driver rating - and the higher points scores available in the high DR lobbies - if they simply do not have the racecraft. Their SR should limit their DR.

The drivers with lower SR will not score high points because they get put into a lower SR lobby (I think top split is roughly 90/95+ SR), the lower SR group is always going to be weaker because there are less high DR players there to fill the grid. In the grand scheme of things any point score under 250 is irrelevant for the FIA standings (qualifying for S ratings/or world finals) so the lower SR drivers will never be scoring big enough points to be a factor in the official competitions.

Resetting their DR means they can do a couple of clean races to get back into clean lobbies then farm 20 or so wins off players who are nowhere near as quick. In my mind the rating of drivers speed is to make sure everybody can jump into an online race and be competitive with other players regardless of their own skill level, the current system doesn't allow that. I would prefer no DR resets but it made harder to regain SR (I'm always weary to say penalties should be harsher whilst they struggle to attribute blame correctly).

Also as far as I know crashing on your own doesn't cost SR points, even if you get a barrier penalty (you lose the sector SR gain but no actual points), I think contact with other cars, driving the wrong way round and quitting before the end are the only way to lose points.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The thing is myself and some others have discussed making sr affect dr even MORE.
This would curb dirty driving further because let’s say you win a race with three sr down or something.
There should be a point where the system says nope no dr for you too dirty. Distribute the remaining dr to others by position.
One thing too, the scoring system is all together and all points count and affect FIA.
So there’s more to it than simply matching like players with like by sr.
Points play into things because it’s a competition.
Myself and some others think it would be a good idea to have an sr threshold whereby you lose a certain amount of sr in race you forfeit all dr gained.
Remove motivation for dirty driving by adjusting scoring.
It hinges on strict sr down for significant incidents.
Right now the system, if you stay 99 then snap and drop to A sr the system will match you next race against easy competition for you if you are say A. You’ll be placed into position where you must win and run away from s bunch of c or what have you...not much dr gain opportunity.
If it’s not a long race you might have to do this several times to regain 99, so I think that it’s sort of the intent to function as I described above, because you don’t gain any dr from seal clubbing.

For win at all cost players, gaining DR is demotivating. They don't want higher DR (and thus fairer matches) they want easy pickings. DR resets, limiting DR gains only help these players. Most people do not care about DR, that's only for top tier FIA racers to worry about, who should be in A+/S out of reach anyway.

Victories, top 5 finishes, pole positions, fastest laps is what counts for your stats, your trophies. The problem is, SR is too easily gained for fast dirty drivers that get pole to flag victories (which is what they want) then end up in SR S to bulldoze there way through either for the win or get comfy easier races again by losing SR and DR.

Solution: Put the fast dirty drivers together A+/C, A/D, B/E together so they can wreck each other instead of getting pole to flag after a reset.


The easy competition from dropping SR is a bug in matchmaking which has been in need of fixing since the game came out.
If you drop SR, you should still need to battle the fast players in that SR range (and not the slow players of a higher SR range) with the risk of losing more SR instead of getting a free pass back to high SR to continue causing trouble.

It's not intentional since it is opposite of what the purpose is of matchmaking, which is to put people of similar pace and sportmanship together, not to put people of very different pace with slightly different sportmanship together.

 

[milehighmadd]

Fuji is simply out to reward CRBs like it's going out of style. As long as you don't get an orange down arrow, you can get shortcut penalties and still come away with a clean race.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's a ranking - one of two that exist in the game.

Imagine a real racing driver. Dude is fast and streaks out ahead most races - clearly the most talented driver on the grid. But he DNFs because he cannot keep it on the grey stuff, bouncing off crash barriers, back markers, or just straight launching it through kerbs and smashing the sump off. Half the time the car comes back on a flatbed, needing a new engine, gearbox and... car, while the rear wing goes home with the fans who picked it up. He's never going to get to F1/LMP1/GT3/pick a high level series, because his lower tier teams can't afford to keep him on board, so he never has the opportunity to prove how fast he is in higher series.

His SR limits his DR.

As above, so below. Someone should not be eligible for the top rank of driver rating - and the higher points scores available in the high DR lobbies - if they simply do not have the racecraft. Their SR should limit their DR.

No, his continual crashing and wrecking will limit his DR. Those that can stay on the track will finish ahead of him. Yet those with similar crap driving at that pace will be matched together since their DR will gravitate towards each other without outside influence like resets and limits.

It's not a rank, it's a mathematical formula, an elo rating system. Plus minus based on finish position. Don't see it as a rank, it's just a number.


The total points in FIA races are based on DR in the room, and it would indeed not be nice to have one of those A+/B drivers do a couple careful races to get to SR.S to wreck into higher level FIA races. But that's not a failure of DR, that's a failure of SR.

SR is the rank that should be harder to get, especially since it is the primary matching factor. SR is what determines your right to race with a certain class on the track. Incidents over time would be a much better measure for SR. With the time window big enough you can't quickly raise SR for FIA mayhem. Incidents / last 10 hours driven, that would be a great measure for SR.

Or give it entry requirements, 3 clean races in a row to get to the top tier. Which will only be meaningful if you get matched on your pace, thus no DR resets to get easy pole to flag victories to farm your way into SR.S.

An elo rating system only works as a zero sum game, GTS messes that up in many ways. Points lost at the top, imported at the bottom, silly 1500 point jumps, resets. It's an ugly system. (Just not as ugly as SR )

 

[Famine]

No, his continual crashing and wrecking will limit his DR. Those that can stay on the track will finish ahead of him.

Even Pastor Maldonado - a man whose SR was D on a good day - got a victory once in F1. Fast guys will still win races, but if they're binning it as often as they bring home the bacon, they won't get the chance to compete at high levels - their racecraft (SR) limits the perception of their ability (DR).

Of course in the real world, a single mistake will end your race and reflect badly on your racecraft, but in GT your car can take punishment all day long and still win. That's another reason to tie SR to DR.

Furthermore, divorcing DR from SR means you can have A+ drivers competing for Top 16 races, World Tours, and even World Finals when they haven't got a clue about keeping it clean.

Don't see it as a rank, it's just a number.

Expressed as a rank. PD even gives out a special rank for it...

 

[Groundfish]

Right now the system, if you stay 99 then snap and drop to A sr the system will match you next race against easy competition for you if you are say A. You’ll be placed into position where you must win and run away from s bunch of c or what have you...not much dr gain opportunity.

The easy competition from dropping SR is a bug in matchmaking which has been in need of fixing since the game came out

It’s by design imo in attempt to prevent dirty players from gaining dr and ruining races of their peers.
Personally I don’t care where dirty players go as long as it’s not in 99 lobbies...
Further it sounds like you don’t like dirty fast players...No one does...Same problem exists in real racing...
It sucks to get beaten, stings, but if it didn’t it would be boring.
Get dirty fast out of clean fast. Lower their rank. That’s what happens.
Imo that’s the priority over worrying about trophies.
Immediately remove them from higher ranked lobbies. Put them at big risk of rank loss.
They aren’t taking dr from a B, or...almost nothing.
Jmo

Edit I think most players do care about their rank, on at least one of their many accounts lol

 

[barak181]

Is it bad that I think both @Sven Jurgens and @Famine both have good and valid points? That there should somehow be a ranking/pairing system that takes both of their points of view into account?

 

[Famine]

Is it bad that I think both @Sven Jurgens and @Famine both have good and valid points?

Not at all. This sort of thing is all a matter of opinion.

 

[Groundfish]

I think too it’s racing. Prioritizing sr above all misses the point.
That would be HPDE.