PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[CBH]

Delete.

 

[RealJaySee]

My day so far: group 2 race at interlagos. Breaking point for turn one is on about 80 meters. At the start i get right behind the car in front of me, at 200 meters he starts breaking (not for the cars in front, he had a bad start, thats why i was right behind him). Ofc i ram him, I get a 5 second penalty.

A few laps later: someone divebombs me, i manage to avoid contact by steering to the outside (and let him pass), BOOM! 10 second penalty for me! Immediatly turned off my ps4. Can you blame me for ragequitting?

Always had sr. S (except after some racing at bathurst a few months back), and now I am sr. B.... Thanks to these kind of monkeyball penalties... I wonder how there are still people at sr. S. Or didnt they played GTS in the past month?

Sorry for my whining, i needed this. I feel much better now.

EDIT : looks like I dropped to sr. C, also my dr. Dropped from A to B after this race...
Oh well, if I get matched with players with this rating, it looks like i am going to win some sport races again soon...

 

[GA 52]

Doing Race B today and I honestly see an upgrade of the penalty system. It's still unfair especially when they allow an off track and ghosted car come back to the racetrack with almost zero speed in a corner with traffic and all of a sudden not ghosted anymore. We ended up 3 cars crashing into each other. All with RED flags over the cars....... But that should be an easy fix! Unfortunately still a 3 seconds penalty for someone RAMMING you from behind purposely and I couldn't avoid from that hit to touch the car ahead of me. Still not fair imho.

 

[simsimsheree]

Everyone has seen that movie Groundhog Day?

Why anyone is still playing Sport Mode instead of going back to the lobby system and playing in well hosted rooms like we used to do in GT6 (rather than populating the disastrously dirty Quick Mode which had another failed penalty system that didn't work) is beyond me.

How many times do you have to wake up to 'I got you, babe' before the light dawns? 💡

 

[DesertPenguin]

I'm sure it's been brought up before but the Quick Mode in GT6 was surely a prototype for Sport Mode in GTS, right?

 

[GA 52]

Everyone has seen that movie Groundhog Day?

Why anyone is still playing Sport Mode instead of going back to the lobby system and playing in well hosted rooms like we used to do in GT6 (rather than populating the disastrously dirty Quick Mode which had another failed penalty system that didn't work) is beyond me.

How many times do you have to wake up to 'I got you, babe' before the light dawns? 💡

When I'm there checking out it looks like only one or two players? Never tried this? I fully agree with your statements. Cheers

 

[simsimsheree]

I'm sure it's been brought up before but the Quick Mode in GT6 was surely a prototype for Sport Mode in GTS, right?

And was basically deserted, as the better drivers realized it was useless at putting a clean room together.

Nothing short of human self stewarding and video review will EVER work. You know, just like real life. If an automated steward system could work, don't you think the FIA would use it to save money?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Exactly. SNAIL goes so far as to have stewards for each division to review IRs, incident reports, which can be uploaded to a Google Doc. All of this is done by volunteers. No one is paid. But it's for the better good of everyone racing.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Everyone has seen that movie Groundhog Day?

Why anyone is still playing Sport Mode instead of going back to the lobby system and playing in well hosted rooms like we used to do in GT6 (rather than populating the disastrously dirty Quick Mode which had another failed penalty system that didn't work) is beyond me.

How many times do you have to wake up to 'I got you, babe' before the light dawns? 💡

Yeah its like this 🤬 thread. Going round in circles.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Why anyone is still playing Sport Mode instead of going back to the lobby system

Most people I think like the idea of being able to log onto the game at any time and be able to race within a few minutes with a full field with good competition is the allure of the Sport Mode.

Regardless of the day or time of day there will be a race starting within 10 or so minutes at anytime you turn the game on with sport mode.

The penalty system needs work for sure, in many ways it was better at launch than what it is today in my opinion.

The ranking system needs to made more stable and matchmaking needs to be better or closer even if it means possibility having somewhat smaller grids taking the green flag.

The system can work to a reasonable level if certain changes or tweaks are put in place in my opinion.

The sportmode system for its ease of finding a race against like skilled players will always be an option that most people will prefer if possible.

Lobbies you need to search out and trial and error to find one that fits what you are looking for as well. Many lobbies can be as bad or worse that Sports mode races.

 

[Outspacer]

The penalty system needs work for sure, in many ways it was better at launch than what it is today in my opinion.

The ranking system needs to made more stable and matchmaking needs to be better or closer even if it means possibility having somewhat smaller grids taking the green flag.

The system can work to a reasonable level if certain changes or tweaks are put in place in my opinion.

That is the most frustrating thing about it - as a package it certainly worked a lot better at launch. I mean the package of DR, SR and matchmaking. Pandering to those calling for every incident to be punished has damaged all parts of that package, as well as the flow of the race. Used to be that the only real problem was that it was too easy to maintain SR 99, but, the flip side was that matchmaking served up races with closer DRs. Anyone thinking about a dirty pass had to worry about the possibility of revenge, deterring some. Nowadays it takes an essay to properly describe the flaws (see some of my other posts, lol).

 

[Sven Jurgens]

That is the most frustrating thing about it - as a package it certainly worked a lot better at launch. I mean the package of DR, SR and matchmaking. Pandering to those calling for every incident to be punished has damaged all parts of that package, as well as the flow of the race. Used to be that the only real problem was that it was too easy to maintain SR 99, but, the flip side was that matchmaking served up races with closer DRs. Anyone thinking about a dirty pass had to worry about the possibility of revenge, deterring some. Nowadays it takes an essay to properly describe the flaws (see some of my other posts, lol).

Did it actually work better at launch? Tainted memory perhaps? The amount of dive bombs and bump passes has gone down a lot since the penalties were added. It still happens yet nowadays I can finish 95% of races without getting punted or bumped into a wall. It used to be more like 20% before the time penalties.

Maybe it worked better if you started in the top and could simply drive on after getting hit or after hitting someone. Starting mid pack has improved a lot thanks to the penalties.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Did it actually work better at launch? Tainted memory perhaps?

The system needed tweaks even at launch but it seems the changes started to punish those getting hit as much or more so than those doing the hitting.

I did a lot of midpack racing being a DRB SRS racer and at launch I would say 75% of the racing was good.

When I quit in late February I would say that the percentage of good races was below a 50% rate and that was when it seemed everyone was doing the nudge you out of the way and the victim of the contact at that point was the one getting the penalty and the one hitting was getting off scott free due to the changes in the penalty system applications

The starting to penalize based on DR rankings has also been a major fail and the giving penalties out like candy has resulted in a ranking system both DR and SR that has racers ranking doing more up and down moves than a streetwalker does on a busy Saturday night.

I will say that at launch even though the system had problems it was still a fun system to race in, after many of the changes say by around late February- early March in my opinion the system became so broken that many racers including myself quit racing in Sport mode.

I still hope that PD will make the system better, the changes they made and have seemed to stay with in my opinion is worse than launch and does not promote fun racing when the main concern is how many ranking points you may lose rather than looking forward to racing.

It still can be a decent system, will it ever be perfect? Probably not but it can be a lot better than it is currently.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The system needed tweaks even at launch but it seems the changes started to punish those getting hit as much or more so than those doing the hitting.

I did a lot of midpack racing being a DRB SRS racer and at launch I would say 75% of the racing was good.

When I quit in late February I would say that the percentage of good races was below a 50% rate and that was when it seemed everyone was doing the nudge you out of the way and the victim of the contact at that point was the one getting the penalty and the one hitting was getting off scott free due to the changes in the penalty system applications

The starting to penalize based on DR rankings has also been a major fail and the giving penalties out like candy has resulted in a ranking system both DR and SR that has racers ranking doing more up and down moves than a streetwalker does on a busy Saturday night.

I will say that at launch even though the system had problems it was still a fun system to race in, after many of the changes say by around late February- early March in my opinion the system became so broken that many racers including myself quit racing in Sport mode.

I still hope that PD will make the system better, the changes they made and have seemed to stay with in my opinion is worse than launch and does not promote fun racing when the main concern is how many ranking points you may lose rather than looking forward to racing.

It still can be a decent system, will it ever be perfect? Probably not but it can be a lot better than it is currently.

It still needs a ton of improvements no doubt yet my DR literally shot up after the time penalties were added as I could finally race without getting punted off the track all the time. I even briefly touched DR.S. However since the DR discrimination I do prefer racing without qualifying and staying in DR.B so it's all relative :/ It was better when first introduced. Of course that was also before people learned how to manipulate the system so going back there won't work.

Anyway I suddenly find myself down to SR.A again after a few people drove into me. I guess radar is still not used by everyone. DR.B lowers the time penalties, yet you're still vulnerable to DR.C and DR.D drivers not paying attention. Matchmaking...

 

[Outspacer]

Did it actually work better at launch? Tainted memory perhaps? The amount of dive bombs and bump passes has gone down a lot since the penalties were added. It still happens yet nowadays I can finish 95% of races without getting punted or bumped into a wall. It used to be more like 20% before the time penalties.

Maybe it worked better if you started in the top and could simply drive on after getting hit or after hitting someone. Starting mid pack has improved a lot thanks to the penalties.

Yes, it definitely did - as a package. SR and DR were more likely to be - roughly- appropriate for each player, and therefore matchmaking had better data to work with.

I'm not going to deny that the threat of time penalties has changed behaviour, that's not the point I'm making. It's that each time penalty also comes with an SR hit - often hefty - and that leads to high numbers of DR resets. The result of that is a disaster for matchmaking (amongst other problems).

Subjectively, I've found most players trying to be clean - both before and after the time penalties. The amount of actual dirty ones is probably about the same - and they bother me far more than those who get over-optimistic and divebomb. The key difference though is that meeting a dirty player now will probably cost you a lot more than before - they can manage to dump a 10sec on you or tap-tap-tap you off the road, whereas before you often only lost a place or two.

It still needs a ton of improvements no doubt yet my DR literally shot up after the time penalties were added as I could finally race without getting punted off the track all the time. I even briefly touched DR.S. However since the DR discrimination I do prefer racing without qualifying and staying in DR.B so it's all relative :/ It was better when first introduced. Of course that was also before people learned how to manipulate the system so going back there won't work.

Anyway I suddenly find myself down to SR.A again after a few people drove into me. I guess radar is still not used by everyone. DR.B lowers the time penalties, yet you're still vulnerable to DR.C and DR.D drivers not paying attention. Matchmaking...

Of course it's 'better' in DR B! Anyway, you do what you enjoy - starting out of position and playing it as a less competitive game, just the fun of the race. Yet you still end with 'Matchmaking...', so I think you agree with my concern over having rankings that actually work in a stable way.

 

[simsimsheree]

Most people I think like the idea of being able to log onto the game at any time and be able to race within a few minutes with a full field with good competition is the allure of the Sport Mode.

Regardless of the day or time of day there will be a race starting within 10 or so minutes at anytime you turn the game on with sport mode.

The penalty system needs work for sure, in many ways it was better at launch than what it is today in my opinion.

The ranking system needs to made more stable and matchmaking needs to be better or closer even if it means possibility having somewhat smaller grids taking the green flag.

The system can work to a reasonable level if certain changes or tweaks are put in place in my opinion.

The sportmode system for its ease of finding a race against like skilled players will always be an option that most people will prefer if possible.

Lobbies you need to search out and trial and error to find one that fits what you are looking for as well. Many lobbies can be as bad or worse that Sports mode races.

Did you used to play GT6? Clean or Kick rooms were open 24/7, I rarely had to wait very long for one if one wasn't open, or open one myself, and it soon filled. The way a challenge was presented to the better drivers was the widespread use of the reverse grid (which saved time wasted on qualy), forcing them to work their way CLEANLY through the pack. Usually, it was a No Tune room, and PP range was restricted (and often boss cars were asked to not be used, or weight restrictions set so they couldn't be used).

Hosts took hosting seriously, bashers were quickly booted, it was night after night (and day after day) of trouble-free racing the likes of which has almost disappeared from racing games on the PS4 (trust me, public rooms in PC2 and AC are as bad as Sport Mode).

There are no MINOR tweaks that can save Sport Mode. Until the game can determine a divebomb from a brake check, until the penalty for forcing a driver off is the mandatory returning of position, until the game can tell the difference between hitting a car with its back end slightly out and hitting one completely turned around, until slowdown penalties completely disappear, until the same penalty for good driver and bad are the same, there will be no possibility of anything CLOSE to how clean GT6 rooms could be.

If you never experienced this, I am sorry for you. It was a Golden Age of sportsmanship and good racing etiquette, completely ruined by everyone buying into this Sport Mode automated stewarding boondoggle.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Did you used to play GT6? Clean or Kick rooms were open 24/7, I rarely had to wait very long for one if one wasn't open, or open one myself, and it soon filled. The way a challenge was presented to the better drivers was the widespread use of the reverse grid (which saved time wasted on qualy), forcing them to work their way CLEANLY through the pack. Usually, it was a No Tune room, and PP range was restricted (and often boss cars were asked to not be used, or weight restrictions set so they couldn't be used).

Hosts took hosting seriously, bashers were quickly booted, it was night after night (and day after day) of trouble-free racing the likes of which has almost disappeared from racing games on the PS4 (trust me, public rooms in PC2 and AC are as bad as Sport Mode).

There are no MINOR tweaks that can save Sport Mode. Until the game can determine a divebomb from a brake check, until the penalty for forcing a driver off is the mandatory returning of position, until the game can tell the difference between hitting a car with its back end slightly out and hitting one completely turned around, until slowdown penalties completely disappear, until the same penalty for good driver and bad are the same, there will be no possibility of anything CLOSE to how clean GT6 rooms could be.

If you never experienced this, I am sorry for you. It was a Golden Age of sportsmanship and good racing etiquette, completely ruined by everyone buying into this Sport Mode automated stewarding boondoggle.

I managed to have a good run with GT5 with lobbies, yet never got into many good ones in GT6. Mostly empty rooms, kicked for not using a headset, kicked for being the wrong nationality, kicked for not being on their friend list, mostly rooms that never race or fall apart after one race. I completed GT6 offline, tried to find good rooms for a few weeks then gave up on the game. Plus I can't see anymore street car only rooms for the rest of my life. I want to race! Even when I got into a decently filled room I often missed the race start with the haphazard restrictions trying to swap out components as fast as possible to get within the limits.

Sport mode all the way! I tried lobbies twice in GTS, both were disastrous as in either not racing at all or falling apart after 2 races. I like my races to start at a set time, not sit around waiting for the host to come back off the toilet!

 

[Conquerer]

We all know the penalty system is messed up since day 1 it seems PD doesn't care.
so what can we do to get less penalty's that's my point. You can keep saying the penalty system is crap but that won't help it cause you probably still playing the game.

The more players are vocal about it the better because it could lead to it being reworked. That said, I'm not optimistic as PD is awful at listening to fans for the most part and the current system has lasted too long. I will still keep playing the game because it's fun and I'm a GT fan, but the penalty system has ruined way too many of mine or others' races. I'd like to think that would bother PD.

And I see some people in here mentioning that we know the consequences so why do we keep taking risks? Sometimes you don't take a risk and something just happens in a fraction of a second. You can't control it... Last week on Dragon Trail a car in front of me went a tad wide out of a corner and spun in the middle of the track. It happened way too quickly and I had no time to react so I hit him and was given a 5 second penalty. I even lifted while trying to quickly assess the situation but there was no maneuver that could've avoided it. I just don't understand how they can't make it better. It should detect that a player went on the grass, lost control without anyone touching them and spun onto the track. How ANYONE can be given a penalty for hitting that car within the first few seconds of the spin is beyond me. Not only is your race probably ruined from the collision alone (which is frankly part of racing sadly), you're also penalized on top of that? Just wow...

But anyway, that is just ONE example. There are countless other cases where things just happen where there wasn't necessarily risk. And if we keep babysitting ourselves to avoid stupid penalties that shouldn't happen, are we really racing anymore? I'm not so sure.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I would almost be willing to bet that of the regular racers of GT sport that have quit racing in Sport on line that most of them are racers that actually try to race in a clean fair manner.
Also one of the main reasons for quitting is not only trying to deal with the dirty racers affecting your race results but the current penalty system on a regular basis unjustly doling out a penalty to them as a driver that is actually the victim of an incident finally just pushes them to a point that says enough is enough and they no longer participate in the daily Sport races.

The bad part as more and more of the racers that want to race clean leave the Sport racing ranks then that leaves more of the dirty racers as a higher population of the matchmaking pool so the remaining clean racers are more subjected to the dirty drivers than they were previously.

I think that the penalty system was better at launch than it is currently and the rankings were definitely more stable with much less fluctuations over the course of just a few races back then.

PD needs to make some serious adjustments if they want the Sport online player base to quit shedding numbers of players.

 

[VBR]

And if we keep babysitting ourselves to avoid stupid penalties...are we really racing anymore? I'm not so sure.

I'm sure, & imho we're not really racing anymore. Race drivers in the real world aren't tip toeing around on egg shells trying to avoid being hit with all or nothing black or white penalties being dished out by an automatic computerized system bereft of intelligence. Like I said before, until game devs start creating AI Stewards programs for racing sims, things are not going to significantly improve.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

I know I sound like a broken record but.... make the penalties the same for everyone. Letting people get away with divebombing and brake checking knowing that the person they hit is going to be penalized is just plain stupid and lazy on PD's part. If they start receiving the same penalties they might think twice about doing it. Where's the incentive to race clean when you know you can hit someone and get away with it? Change just this one thing and I think you would see an improvement in the quality of races. Or maybe I'm just disillusioned.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I think that the penalty system was better at launch than it is currently

I know I sound like a broken record but.... make the penalties the same for everyone.

Change just this one thing and I think you would see an improvement in the quality of races. Or maybe I'm just disillusioned.

You mean like it was at the games original launch right?

Had its problems at launch but started getting worse about the first of the year as it seemed many started to game the penalty system about then.

Even back at launch the DR and SR rankings were more stable and one bad race would not change which ranking you were in unless you were just in that ranking by the skin of your teeth.

Seems the more PD has done as far as changes they have made to fix the issues and the problems the worse they have actually made it.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

Even back at launch the DR and SR rankings were more stable and one bad race would not change which ranking you were in unless you were just in that ranking by the skin of your teeth.

Yeah the hits you take on SR didn't effect your DR as much. Now the 5 & 10 sec penalties you pick up through no fault of you own really put a dent in your SR. And don't get me started on the DR resets which are total BS. I've had one and now I won't do certain dallies for fear of having my SR tanked. It's not pretty in the lower ranks. But like I said let them suffer the same penalties and see if they can climb out of lower DR/SR ranks. I would hope that would keep more of the dirty drivers down there.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

You mean like it was at the games original launch right?

Had its problems at launch but started getting worse about the first of the year as it seemed many started to game the penalty system about then.

Even back at launch the DR and SR rankings were more stable and one bad race would not change which ranking you were in unless you were just in that ranking by the skin of your teeth.

Seems the more PD has done as far as changes they have made to fix the issues and the problems the worse they have actually made it.

The penalty system was only better at launch as most people weren't gaming the system yet. It's not possible to go back as it needed to be changed when races started to get worse and worse at that start of 2018.

It's an ongoing battle. PD does some tweaks, people find ways to abuse it again. The penalty system seems to fall in the same category as fighting piracy, spam/scam email, and computer viruses.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Yeah the hits you take on SR didn't effect your DR as much. Now the 5 & 10 sec penalties you pick up through no fault of you own really put a dent in your SR. And don't get me started on the DR resets which are total BS. I've had one and now I won't do certain dallies for fear of having my SR tanked. It's not pretty in the lower ranks. But like I said let them suffer the same penalties and see if they can climb out of lower DR/SR ranks. I would hope that would keep more of the dirty drivers down there.

The original concept as I understood it was the SR was the ranking that determined what type of racers you matched the closest and the higher rankings would be the clean no contact rankings.

The problem is that it is to easy to advance to the higher rankings so people do not cherish the ranking and drive with a premium being placed on being able to remain at those levels.

If a person is demoted from a higher SR ranking to a lower SR ranking for the way they drive it should be at least 2 weeks and x number of miles raced (which would make whether you raced in short versus long races not matter as it will be total miles that must be obtained) while at the same time having a maximum number of contact or running off the track incidents to be determined to be able to advance back up to the next highest level.

As far as DR is concerned Dr ranking should be the same as the emerald or platinum or whatever driving rank you earn in the game and once you reach a higher DR level then that level should never decrease unless you do not log into the game for a period of 90 days or longer and the ranking would never go lower than 1 level to the highest level ever obtained.

Dr is supposed to represent drivers skills and because you do not lose those skills because you start to drive using dirty tactics then a driver should not be rewarded by facing less experienced competition by intentionally being able to tank their ratings.

This would at least be a start to stabilizing what is going on in Sport mode.

 

[Draggon]

Also one of the main reasons for quitting is not only trying to deal with the dirty racers affecting your race results but the current penalty system on a regular basis unjustly doling out a penalty to them as a driver that is actually the victim of an incident finally just pushes them to a point that says enough is enough and they no longer participate in the daily Sport races.

I'm at the point that I'm not racing much online with my primary account for that very reason.

I'm sure, & imho we're not really racing anymore. Race drivers in the real world aren't tip toeing around on egg shells trying to avoid being hit with all or nothing black or white penalties being dished out by an automatic computerized system bereft of intelligence.

Or spending a large amount of the race looking in the mirror while trying to avoid getting hit by another car. The Sport experience has gotten less and less fun as the penalty system has been overhauled.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

What's up with getting punted and getting a short cut penalty at T1 on N24. That it doesn't give you SR Down for someone else not braking is appreciated, yet now I get 5.2 sec shortcut penalty for getting punted off the road... 1 sec for getting rammed was better. I need to get out of DR.A again.

 

[fastnloud30]

I meant in real racing as gran turismo is labelled the real driving SIM!
If you think that getting a penalty for Some one else mistake is ok then I hope I never race with you.

I totally agree with you there if a car fails to stop into a corner it's there fault and I go by the rule the car has the right to room if he has the nose of the car level with you if at the rear wheel they need to yield. Look at f1 at Paul recard vettel got a 5 sec penalty for causing contact. Bottas didn't. correct fia rules stand in real life but not in this stupid game.
I'm pretty much done with with sport mode now. I'll stick to racing with real drivers in lobbies I race with great same level and respect to each other. If your one of them guys your always welcome to join us as I feel your pain psn vrsstig

 

[Manasseh257NSX]

The thing I believe that needs to be changed is how your penalties are served.. In a FIA race, a person can get 12 sec. Worth of penalties and scrub them off throughout the race.

PD needs to calibrate it to where penalties are served either in the pit box (preferable) or some kind of stopping zone. And the only way to serve said penalty is to come to a complete stop (just like real life) People take the risks they take because they know they can scrub away the penalty throughout the race most of the time. If PD wants this penalty system to be truly effective, they need to make getting a penalty race altering. Otherwise people still won't fear getting them.

 

[Chiefy17]

Id love to know how it decides I need a penalty x2 when i get hit square up the butt in the middle of the esses at maggiore 2 laps in a row...when my accelerator is fully engaged. Just because the dude behind got a better entry...