- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 448,698 views
- 175
- Australia
Well it does if he is catching me through the section yes?
Edit: so your saying im stupid for thinking someone can enter a section of track faster than someone else...that friend is stupid
- 187
- Poland
current system of penalties destroys the best part of racing, which is the ride on the bumper of the opponent's car
or wheel-wheel fight
in current system you just can't ride like this because every small contact ends with a penalty, that is wrong
look at gt3 or others similar series with "normal" cars in real life, these drivers has small contacts between them a lot of times in every race when they fight wheel to wheel
penalties for ramming are "funny" too, 10 secs for destroyed someone other race
and in 2/3 cases victim lose more than 10 secs and additionally also gets like 3 secs or in extreme situation even to 10 secs, which is crazy
or wheel-wheel fight
in current system you just can't ride like this because every small contact ends with a penalty, that is wrong
look at gt3 or others similar series with "normal" cars in real life, these drivers has small contacts between them a lot of times in every race when they fight wheel to wheel
penalties for ramming are "funny" too, 10 secs for destroyed someone other race
and in 2/3 cases victim lose more than 10 secs and additionally also gets like 3 secs or in extreme situation even to 10 secs, which is crazy
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- 76
- Hasselt
- MR_COMMANDER
I like the system. Works very well in most cases and unfortunately less well in other... But in general I notice people really trying to avoid contact so the system works.
And if you would race in real life and someone crashes into you or brakechecks you the result will be far worse than a 10 sec penalty
And if you would race in real life and someone crashes into you or brakechecks you the result will be far worse than a 10 sec penalty
- 4
- United Kingdom
I feel like I'm stuck at C and below. Some of the drivers at this level are complete idiots and I can just tap the back of a car (having no effect on their race) and bag a 3 second penalty for it. Garbage.
- 76
- Hasselt
- MR_COMMANDER
Take a lot more time doing qualification runs before doing the daily races. Look at the fastest lap and try to get a top 3 starting position. If you get a time quick enough to get some pole starting positions you can reapeat the same race over and over and get to S sportsmanchip after 7 or 8 crash-free races
- 1,875
- United States
It has been several months ago but I decided to sort of test the system when it came to Q times and starting grid position. I deliberately sandbagged a Q lap by about two seconds of what I was capable of and ran several daily races using that time and noted the starting grid position.
I then "requalified" and set a time of about 2 seconds faster on the same track, same car and same daily race and over the course of the next several races noted what should be my new improved grid position.
Actual results of the test, I started all races between P10-P16. I saw no improvement in grid starting position. The only difference I saw was being moved into a lobby with faster lap times while maintaining the same mid pack starting position regardless of the Q lap time posted.
I was an upper mid level DR B and an SR S 99 ranked driver at the time.
So in my experience just improving your Q lap time does not mean you will automatically be granted a higher starting position as a result.
Maybe your results vary but this was the results of my very unscientific deliberate test of faster Q time always equals better starting position = Fail not true!
- 3,954
- Laguna
- Alpha_Cipher1
I think that applies mostly to the midfield. The top splits is where you'll see the most time deltas, and usually the A+/D lobbies you see will only have 3-5 players at most at A+. So if you can only qualify as high as the midfield, then yeah your test sounds valid
It's not so simple if you have the capacity to be the top field without the A+ drivers though
- 1,875
- United States
I agree but if you take the entire player base as a starting percentage of 100% then I would say that 90% of the players in the game do not have the skills or turn lap times that will be in line to guarantee them a top starting position.
The racers in the daily races that pay the biggest price are those that have a high SR ranking and a mid to upper DR B or a very low DR A ranking as the matchmaking is placing them in lobbies where the majority of the time they are used as grid fillers for the faster paced racers that apparently with the frequency of the players mentioned are used to fill the lower half of the grid those faster players actually lack the numbers to fill their own grids from front to rear.
As a result the slightly lower ranked players are in essence punished for being the rank they are at with generally poor starting positions among fields that contain faster racers they have virtually no chance of finishing in front of.
Sounds like a really even and fair system for all racers of all skill levels doesn't it?
Even gets worse if you count the races that throw the poor DR D ranked racer in with the DR A and B racers! 
I only bring this up as starting towards the rear can still result in a fun race but it would also be nice that those slightly slower drivers be given more of an opportunity for near the front starts and to have wins and podiums as well instead of 85% of the times being used as a grid filler starting in 10th or further back to racers in the front couple of positions 2-3 seconds faster per lap.
I know get faster right? I usually run about 3 or so seconds off the lowest of the top ten lap times. I am not a good hot lapper and generally can run a full race distance lapping within a few tenths of my posted Q times if I do not do something stupid or get caught up in another racers stupidity.
I also like the pace I run, I have my own preferences of staying within certain track limits for my own enjoyment and my driving style is more along the style of an endurance racer that takes care of their equipment than a sprint racer that constantly hangs it all out on the ragged edge.
Because of what I find enjoyable should I in the majority of Sport races I run in be relegated towards the rear of a faster field or should the matchmaking actually be doing a better job of placing me in lobbies along with other racers that race at about the same level I do?
Not everybody races at a top 10 lap time level that plays the game and many find enjoyment at the current pace they are at.
Why should those racers not be given more opportunity to start and run at the front instead of the rear?
Also not everyone strives to be at an A+ ranking and I have always said that for me being a mid level DR B the game has me ranked about right! I am content at that ranking, just not with how matchmaking treats the ranking for race grids and starting positions.
Also mixing skill levels from the top to the bottom is also an recipe for incidents and disasters that really highlight the weaknesses in the penalty system as well. Keep the speeds and skill levels closer and the amount of incidents may show a bit of a decrease, sure would not make it worse.
- 3,954
- Laguna
- Alpha_Cipher1
agreed with all your pointsI agree but if you take the entire player base as a starting percentage of 100% then I would say that 90% of the players in the game do not have the skills or turn lap times that will be in line to guarantee them a top starting position.
The racers in the daily races that pay the biggest price are those that have a high SR ranking and a mid to upper DR B or a very low DR A ranking as the matchmaking is placing them in lobbies where the majority of the time they are used as grid fillers for the faster paced racers that apparently with the frequency of the players mentioned are used to fill the lower half of the grid those faster players actually lack the numbers to fill their own grids from front to rear.
As a result the slightly lower ranked players are in essence punished for being the rank they are at with generally poor starting positions among fields that contain faster racers they have virtually no chance of finishing in front of.
Sounds like a really even and fair system for all racers of all skill levels doesn't it?
I only bring this up as starting towards the rear can still result in a fun race but it would also be nice that those slightly slower drivers be given more of an opportunity for near the front starts and to have wins and podiums as well instead of 85% of the times being used as a grid filler starting in 10th or further back to racers in the front couple of positions 2-3 seconds faster per lap.
I know get faster right? I usually run about 3 or so seconds off the lowest of the top ten lap times. I am not a good hot lapper and generally can run a full race distance lapping within a few tenths of my posted Q times if I do not do something stupid or get caught up in another racers stupidity.
I also like the pace I run, I have my own preferences of staying within certain track limits for my own enjoyment and my driving style is more along the style of an endurance racer that takes care of their equipment than a sprint racer that constantly hangs it all out on the ragged edge.
Because of what I find enjoyable should I in the majority of Sport races I run in be relegated towards the rear of a faster field or should the matchmaking actually be doing a better job of placing me in lobbies along with other racers that race at about the same level I do?
Not everybody races at a top 10 lap time level that plays the game and many find enjoyment at the current pace they are at.
Why should those racers not be given more opportunity to start and run at the front instead of the rear?
Also not everyone strives to be at an A+ ranking and I have always said that for me being a mid level DR B the game has me ranked about right! I am content at that ranking, just not with how matchmaking treats the ranking for race grids and starting positions.
Also mixing skill levels from the top to the bottom is also an recipe for incidents and disasters that really highlight the weaknesses in the penalty system as well. Keep the speeds and skill levels closer and the amount of incidents may show a bit of a decrease, sure would not make it worse.
- 886
- Space Coast
- Chevy_Heavy
Last night I start P2 in the GrB race. Standing start catches me off guard and I can't switch TC on fast enough so a couple cars pass me. One goes off so I'm P3 going into T2. I make the slightest contact with P2 at the top of the hill because he had passed me on the inside and had to slow more for the turn, I doubt he even felt it. We continue on, no harm no foul. Wrong a few secs later I slapped with a 10 sec penalty.
Then next lap someone hits my inside and gives me another 2 secs. Now I have to slow in the racing line to lose some penalty time. I get going again with 6+ secs remaining. Again get divebombed and I recieve a 5 sec penalty which means slowing again. Don't even remember where I finished as I turned the game off after the race and I am done for the day. Race ruined by an uncalled for penalty. Result went from SR S to A in that 1 race. I actually had to save the replay to see why I recieved the 10 secs because at the time I had no idea why I got it. So you can complain about your 3 sec penalty whereas as a DrA that same contact results in a 10 sec gift.
TT92
Premium
- 1,642
- WA
- TT__777
Welcome to real life racing ;-) NOT everyone is capable of finishing first or being a world champion for that matter.
Sounds like a really even and fair system for all racers of all skill levels doesn't it?
Here's a quick true story about me. I was on the leader board in about 9th position for one set of races. I started on pole by about 2 seconds fo a race, so I thought to myself here is an easy night of racing. Next race I was 3rd on the grid!!! Like WTF, I was matched with the 1st and 3rd players in my region. Now that's not fair is it, surely they should have gone to bed by then? ;-)
Well you have given yourself very good advice here ;-) The other thing to do id tank your rankings and shuffle down the order so you get matched with "newbies" and win some races. Although, with the current penalty system expect to see some A/A+ players there that have had some bad races ;-)
Then just enjoy doing what you are doing
So if you raced go karts socially every other Sunday you would expect Vettell and Hamilton to let win a couple if you matched with them? (Note: exaggerated point, but a point all the same)
So you want only to race with people you can beat easily? ;-)
No! No! No! Take it from someone that actually used raced, it does not. It teaches the slower, less skilled drivers how they can get better. Competition improves skill levels. I love racing with faster people because I want to see how they do it. I would rather have a great race and dice with several people and come mid field (or even last) than win a race by 30 seconds.
I have to say, I’ve avoided the penalty system for months. But jumping back into random lobby’s and boy-o-boy is it horrible 
I can’t really see the logic in someone spinning out in front of you (literally a meter or so) or cutting across the track to take you out, giving you a penalty... the penalty surely is the fact you’ve been hit off the road by no fault of your own?
I can’t even imagine going back to Sport mode with the penalty system working the way it is at the moment.
I can’t really see the logic in someone spinning out in front of you (literally a meter or so) or cutting across the track to take you out, giving you a penalty... the penalty surely is the fact you’ve been hit off the road by no fault of your own?
I can’t even imagine going back to Sport mode with the penalty system working the way it is at the moment.
- 3,954
- Laguna
- Alpha_Cipher1
I think the point he's trying to make is the penalty discrimination between B and lower ranked people and A and higher ranked people, as well as the general inexperience of the lower ranked people making them rather unpredictable
If I were to talk about your points though, I wish this were the case for everyone. I can confidently say that what you said is exactly why I'm where I am right now, but some players don't have that "fire" within them to know why they're slower and learn from the others. Some will keep asking "why am I slow" without really trying to learn, and would quit. Some would try and try, but they'll find that their efforts are futile (it's not, we all just have different learning curves), and some would just chalk it up that good people are simply geniuses (a mindset I completely loathe)
If people can just be enthusiastic enough...
- 3,554
- Theresa, Wisconsin
I like the system. Works very well in most cases and unfortunately less well in other... But in general I notice people really trying to avoid contact so the system works.
And if you would race in real life and someone crashes into you or brakechecks you the result will be far worse than a 10 sec penalty
I couldn't disagree more. There are still many dirty drivers out there which wouldn't be possible if the system worked well. In a SR S race yesterday someone first tried to turn down on me to get a bump so I couldn't pass them, when I got alongside he bumped the side of me to try to force me off track. Then every race you have the cars that dont brake after long straights before T1 and just make a mess out of the start at tracks like Nurb GP, Monza, Interlagos, etc.
I just quit worrying about what my DR & SR are and just race now, I still try to race clean but if someone starts to lean on me turn after turn and drive dirty I will push back. There is much less anger involved if you dont fret over rankings, it just becomes a race by race experience.
- 4,962
- Nelson, England
- GTP_ASH32
Slight touch of the car in front and boom 10 second penalty to me, even when sometimes it looks like I have not touched them I still get 10 seconds. They are still on the track, I'm still behind them (I've also lost time), why on earth do I deserve a penalty and ten seconds of one too, I'd have got less if I just divebombed them and here's why they are so many dirty drivers.
- 1,875
- United States
I prefer to not be a person that tanks my rankings looking for easier racers to prey upon to get hollow victories, The racers at levels lower than myself would I am sure like to race against equal competition as well.
Actually I just want to be able to race against others close to my current skills.
No I would like racing among other racers that exhibit the same skill levels as myself at times rather than be a grid filler most races so the higher ranked players can enjoy beating us lower ranked players.
Winning is not the most important but being grid fillers for higher ranked players that are 2 seconds a lap quicker should not be as common as it is currently either.
real life racing uses divisions to separate racing skill levels and classes, not every one can win but they can should be able to compete against equal skilled racers.
Ever think that there is a reason that a world superbike rider NEVER RACES in a world supersport class? Think perhaps that it may be because the series does not allow the crossover so the higher class more experienced racers do not go in and dominate the lower riders?
Matchmaking is a joke and a racer having the ability to tank there rankings to a lower level makes the ranking system a joke as well.
The current ranking, matchmaking and the penalty system all need adjustments and changes to function to a better level for most racers in the game.
The less a racer wants to game or manipulate the system to gain an advantage whether ethical or not the more they would like to see the systems performance upgraded to make the grids closer performance wise from p1 -p20 and to make the game reward clean driving and punish those that like to play bumper cars.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I meet those faster people now and then when they get punted to the back or have to serve penalties. What they teach me from watching them drive is to bump slower players out of the way then complain afterwards in the chat that slow drivers cause accidents on the track. They do clear a nice path for me
Yesterday on Monza I reported 3 DR.S players for shameful driving to preserve DR at all costs.
- 3,554
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Th
That's pathetic behavior. Apparently they think their DR is more important than everyone elsesI meet those faster people now and then when they get punted to the back or have to serve penalties. What they teach me from watching them drive is to bump slower players out of the way then complain afterwards in the chat that slow drivers cause accidents on the track. They do clear a nice path for me
Yesterday on Monza I reported 3 DR.S players for shameful driving to preserve DR at all costs.
- 1,875
- United States
Some by the way they act project the attitude that the entire game only evolves around the highest ranked players and the rest of the games lower ranked players are insignificant within the game in more ways than one.
- 21,261
- United States
TBF, the S rating is either drivers that A) actually deserve it, or B) played the system and used makes that don't get picked much and ended up in a position to get the S rank.I meet those faster people now and then when they get punted to the back or have to serve penalties. What they teach me from watching them drive is to bump slower players out of the way then complain afterwards in the chat that slow drivers cause accidents on the track. They do clear a nice path for me
Yesterday on Monza I reported 3 DR.S players for shameful driving to preserve DR at all costs.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Yeah I noticed. At least some good fast drivers are DR.S as well. Too bad they share it now with not so great people. A+/S rank seems to mean more than S/S atm. It's confusing again in matchmaking. If a DR.B got DR.S status, does that mean they now play by A+ penalty rules or can still get away with bumping according to their actual DR level.
The penalty system is on fire again tonight, Got bumped 3 times in my last race, total 16 sec penalties, -18 SR for the race. First I'm on the inside in T5, car tries to overtake on the outside from behind and bumps me for 10 sec as he goes off track (he got 1). Then a car almost loses it completely in T3, I brake as much as I can yet still a slight bump at under 40 kph, 5 sec. Then in the fast T7 a car tries to over take me on the inside from behind, bumps me off the track. 1 sec (10 sec for him). Sure overtaking is hard, yet I'm not blocking nor pushing anyone out. I'm ahead at corner entry and have rights to space on the track. PD doesn't see it that way unfortunately.
I'm driving the GT40 which is fast on straights, slow at cornering, so I'll see where I end up. The meta car drivers sure like to dive on this oldie.
TT92
Premium
- 1,642
- WA
- TT__777
You said "I wish this were the case for everyone". Correct. So the ones that are not enthusiastic or can't/won't learn from racing with experienced, fired up racers then they should not complain that they do not get anywhere.
Basically it comes down to a rule of life "effort in = results out". If someone is unmotivated to try and improve then why should the system be changed to pander for them. They can always play arcade and set the AI to a level that they can beat. Or even have online lobbies and kick out everyone that beats them (yes it has happened to me, beat the room owner cleanly and get kicked!!!)
I also should point out that the reason why people find the need to tank their ranking is because IMHO that we all rise (and drop!!!!) far too quickly through the system. If people were allowed to stay longer and be competitive with those around them then we would see a lot less complaining.
And should I mention (again) PD should **NEVER** have made races wins/poles/fastest laps a trophy and given people the incentive to do this anyway!
It's because they do not get paid enough. Make it worthwhile for them to compete and yes they would be in there. Also I am not too sure about how much dominance would be happening ;-)
Bravo
i think I have been saying this very same thing for a long time now. Which directly reflects on the "joke" of a penalty system.Absolutely agree here 1,000%. It does not have to be perfect just not as 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 useless as it is now ;-)
We really do agree on a hell of a lot more than we do disagree on. So my question here to you (and everyone else reading this) is this a game or and online sim racer?
Then do you as a gamer get upset with people playing it as a sim or do sim racers get upset with people playing it as a game? Confused yet? ;-)
I am a gamer from way back that treats this game as a joke. I look at the bugs, the inadequacies and the currently discussed penalty/ranking system and must conclude it just has to be a joke and not to be taken too seriously. So I game the system, I pick my races, I use time trials to compete with friends and have racing (NOT gaming) in online lobbies with friends that have ethics, skill and apply common sense to this game.
Just don't take this so seriously, it really is just a poorly implemented, online racing game designed for 14yos on hand controllers ;-) So as a mature person trying to apply logic to most online sport races where the competition is with this demographic then what hope do you really think we have?
So how do we fix it? Simple(ish). Implement my changes to the penalty system as described earlier in this thread, slow down SR ranking while speeding up DR. Split hand control users and wheel users into groups (yep flame suit on for that one). Then, review the changes on a regular basis an take constructive feedback from this very forum and perhaps even look into people being able to submit race video to PD for investigation into rampant bad driving and looking at bans from online.
Yep, a pipe dream but you never know ;-)
Edit: what is your PSN ID I wanted to look up your stats so I could have a better idea of where you are coming from?
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- 5,999
- Finland
Some people truly seem to be gifted in getting penalties for others. I've now done three races and in every one of them one single player has charged into corners with no care about tomorrow, left a trail of destruction with cars ricocheting left and right and penalties being handed out very generously - for everyone except for that one. Either very skilled use of the algorithms, knowing exactly where to hit, or the system gets more broken every day.
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
- 1,875
- United States
I used World Superbike because of where you are from for an example but I think you are wrong.
Currently if you allowed Johnny Rea to ride both Superbike and Supersport with the way he has been riding he would probably win both titles! lol!
I do know for a fact that in Moto America which is the U.S.A. Pro series that riders are not allowed to cross ride any classes as per the regulations of the series.
Years ago certain classes did allow cross riding by that practice was ruled as no longer legal and since a rider is only eligible to ride in one class.
I am pretty sure World Superbike, British superbike series all follow the same basic rules in an attempt for the sport to be more uniform overall.
Even seems that all the series are all starting to adapt closer to the world superbike rules for the classes of the bikes as well.
- 962
- Phoenix Az.
- HuddyBob
Been a lot of good discussion, just read the entire thread, yep, #449 posts
@VFOURMAX1 really started hitting the nail on the head back on post #343... at least from my perspective. Several of his posts should simply be collated and sent straight to PD as a guide in refining the system.
Dr. ... I think this is either broken, gamed, or useless... made worse by PD implementing a tanking system that was already being gamed.
I believe that qualifying should play a larger role in the match making... but, then again... "gamers".
Sr. ... This is too easy to manipulate, and... "gamers".
I agree with what others have said that it should use "history" in some form to make it more "accurate".
Penalties... @Alpha Cipher noted it wayyy back there somewhere, but, Patch 1.13 was doing an impeccable job at creating clean racing. Sure, the rubbing is racing crowd got their panties in a knot, and... here we are.
Many have said penalties need dolled out the same regardless of Dr. ... I 100% agree, and, you need to note I was one of the first that campaigned higher ranked players should be held to a higher standard... well, hindsight is 20/20, even i can admit to that, so, PD are your reading this?
10 seconds for touching your opponent from behind... it's a known... don't do it... yes, it's stupid, on the other hand it's dead consistent. Learn.
The penalty problems are certainly rooted in the game itself, but... gamers.
I recall Kaz being quoted that "player age" will be used in the matchmaking at some point in time.
I have high hopes that this will help separate the "must win" folks from the "just want a clean race" folks... but... gamers... they'll simply create a new account and lie about their age to get into fields they can create mayhem and carnage in, on their way to the front.
Part of the trouble is, the game appears to be catered to the top 25 (or whatever) and the rest of us are seemingly thrown into the melting pot.
Someone earlier asked something along the lines of...
Is this a game, or a Sim?...
Well, if you look at FIA involvement, "players" being plucked out of the virtual world to be given factory rides, and now even F1 commentators mentioning the game-world as a legitimate avenue to the real world...
You've really got to ask yourself.
And no, I'm not going to get a factory ride... lack of dedication, lack of skill, too old...
But that does not mean I'm wrong to want for clean racing supported throughout the ranks...
@VFOURMAX1 really started hitting the nail on the head back on post #343... at least from my perspective. Several of his posts should simply be collated and sent straight to PD as a guide in refining the system.
Dr. ... I think this is either broken, gamed, or useless... made worse by PD implementing a tanking system that was already being gamed.
I believe that qualifying should play a larger role in the match making... but, then again... "gamers".
Sr. ... This is too easy to manipulate, and... "gamers".
I agree with what others have said that it should use "history" in some form to make it more "accurate".
Penalties... @Alpha Cipher noted it wayyy back there somewhere, but, Patch 1.13 was doing an impeccable job at creating clean racing. Sure, the rubbing is racing crowd got their panties in a knot, and... here we are.
Many have said penalties need dolled out the same regardless of Dr. ... I 100% agree, and, you need to note I was one of the first that campaigned higher ranked players should be held to a higher standard... well, hindsight is 20/20, even i can admit to that, so, PD are your reading this?
10 seconds for touching your opponent from behind... it's a known... don't do it... yes, it's stupid, on the other hand it's dead consistent. Learn.
The penalty problems are certainly rooted in the game itself, but... gamers.
I recall Kaz being quoted that "player age" will be used in the matchmaking at some point in time.
I have high hopes that this will help separate the "must win" folks from the "just want a clean race" folks... but... gamers... they'll simply create a new account and lie about their age to get into fields they can create mayhem and carnage in, on their way to the front.
Part of the trouble is, the game appears to be catered to the top 25 (or whatever) and the rest of us are seemingly thrown into the melting pot.
Someone earlier asked something along the lines of...
Is this a game, or a Sim?...
Well, if you look at FIA involvement, "players" being plucked out of the virtual world to be given factory rides, and now even F1 commentators mentioning the game-world as a legitimate avenue to the real world...
You've really got to ask yourself.
And no, I'm not going to get a factory ride... lack of dedication, lack of skill, too old...
But that does not mean I'm wrong to want for clean racing supported throughout the ranks...
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