Petition to bring back Porsche to FM 4

[ZSPaulus]

I signed the petition too. Nothing wrong with giving it a go...

Maybe Anonymous could help us by shutting down the EA servers for making so many people unhappy.... lol



EDIT: I was number 423!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah. They also tried have "people in Porsche circles" lobby for them, and it was no use. I'm pretty sure, no matter what, EA isn't going to budge. Shame.

I just think the whole idea of petitioning is flawed. Looking at the link supplied in the OP, it's asking for 50,000 signatures. Why 50,000? Did Turn 10 ever say they would reconsider if they got 50,000 names?

 

[FyreandIce]

It's not up to T10 to consider though.

 

[Crumpet]

Well, I don't play Forza, but I'll sign for those who do.

 

[Akira AC]

No, I am not saying that all. I was pointing out his pessimism towards the release of Forza 4 in every one of his posts.

Well, Realism=/=Pessimism

Haven't seen this growing up either.

 

[Jamezinho]

Jesus of Nazareth was the last person to sign the petition so I think we may be in with a chance.

 

[Minty]

I picked a hell of a time to become a Porsche fan....

Really, until a few weeks ago I was never a huge fan of Porsche, and then as soon as I really start to love them this happens.

 

[Spagetti69]

I picked a hell of a time to become a Porsche fan....

Really, until a few weeks ago I was never a huge fan of Porsche, and then as soon as I really start to love them this happens.

Reminds me of Airplane for some funny reason.

"Picked the wrong time to quit sniffing glue".

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I don't blame EA. I blame Porsche for selling the rights solely to EA.

Good article here http://jalopnik.com/5834368/porsche-doesnt-care-about-video-game-people

I agree with this article.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I don't blame EA. I blame Porsche for selling the rights solely to EA. I agree with this article.

I disagree with most of that article. Is the writer 13yo? I highly doubt people wont go buy a Porsche because it wasnt in a video game. Stretch for an article much?

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I disagree with most of that article. Is the writer 13yo? I highly doubt people wont go buy a Porsche because it wasnt in a video game. Stretch for an article much?

Don't underestimate the power of advertising. It's been proven time and time again that advertising works and so much so companies are willing to spend millions on it. The first GT got many dealership attention as they notice it's impact on sales. Some were almost begging PD to add their cars in GT2.

 

[-kj-]

We all need to do some emailing if you haven't already.

http://www.info.ea.com/contact_info.asp?id=133

and please let's be a little civilized about it.

 

[zr1chris]

We all need to do some emailing if you haven't already.

http://www.info.ea.com/contact_info.asp?id=133

and please let's be a little civilized about it.

email sent.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Don't underestimate the power of advertising. It's been proven time and time again that advertising works and so much so companies are willing to spend millions on it. The first GT got many dealership attention as they notice it's impact on sales. Some were almost begging PD to add their cars in GT2.

I am very familiar with advertising and marketing. All writers stretch a bit, but this one made it a much bigger deal than it is. While I understand the point he was trying to make, it sounded like a sour grapes article.

And again I know I sound very negative, but online petitions, and e-mails dont really do much. Honestly say 100k people write e-mails and/or petitons. What now? Is that going to make Porsche and EA put them into FM4? Seriously? I know it makes people feel good, and feel proactive, but it is pretty much a waste of time.

 

[boxox]

"Thanks for reminding us how incredibly valuable this thing we have and they don't can actually be! We're so glad to hear that porsche is so important to you."


Do you think this sends the asking price for the license up or down, guys?

 

[Luminis]

"Thanks for reminding us how incredibly valuable this thing we have and they don't can actually be! We're so glad to hear that porsche is so important to you."


Do you think this sends the asking price for the license up or down, guys?

"Racing game fans across the globe are infuriated by EA Game's latest coupe, to the point that hundreds are signing petitions to free up the Porsche license."

Is that the kind of exposure you'd want for your company?

Or blogs like Jalopnik mentioning that EA tries to create a favourable position for the "inferior product?"

I don't know what kind of experience you guys have with marketing, but when talking about a company as big as EA, bad exposure is bad. It's worse than no exposure on the matter, that's for sure.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I am very familiar with advertising and marketing. All writers stretch a bit, but this one made it a much bigger deal than it is. While I understand the point he was trying to make, it sounded like a sour grapes article.

And again I know I sound very negative, but online petitions, and e-mails dont really do much. Honestly say 100k people write e-mails and/or petitons. What now? Is that going to make Porsche and EA put them into FM4? Seriously? I know it makes people feel good, and feel proactive, but it is pretty much a waste of time.

I agree with that point yet that doesn't mean I agree with every single thing he wrote. (For example we don't know if Turn 10 is not the blame as much as EA. We don't know how much EA had to pay to keep the exclusive rights and how much Turn 10 was willingly to offer for them) Porsche has been out of many hardcore sims for years and it's their decision to do so. While I agree with you I seriously doubt this will change things for Forza 4 but may have some impact on future Porsche and EA agreements. (hopefully stop selling exclusive rights to EA). No doubt this is letting Porsche know that many racing fans that are sim racers also.

 

[Hotspitta]

 

[boxox]

"Racing game fans across the globe are infuriated by EA Game's latest coupe, to the point that hundreds are signing petitions to free up the Porsche license."

Is that the kind of exposure you'd want for your company?

Or blogs like Jalopnik mentioning that EA tries to create a favourable position for the "inferior product?"

I don't know what kind of experience you guys have with marketing, but when talking about a company as big as EA, bad exposure is bad. It's worse than no exposure on the matter, that's for sure.

I don't think jalopnik come off well on that at all. Again, EA themselves spend a fair amount of time advertising the very thing these stories draw attention to - winding up a fanboy army and letting them loose to spread it all over the internet is possibly the greatest fail imaginable in getting them to change tack here.

Oh, there's more from Ian Bell on this over at gameindustry.biz as well.

David Bachowski
VP Business Development,
Babaroga

I'd like to hear EA's side of the story before making any rash judgements against them

Ian Bell
Head of Studio,
Slightly Mad Studios

Indeed David.

Frankly this is so much hypocrisy from Microsoft I'm shocked. Suffice to say I suspect EA are doing no more than giving Microsoft a taste of their own medicine here. Being involved in the Shift franchise for EA, I'm aware of the hoops that EA had to jump through and the cost associated with getting a Ferrari sublicense from Microsoft (which they retain an exclusive on).

I suspect it's come back to bite them and they don't like it.

Check out the last two racing games from EA (Shift 2 and Hot Pursuit) and count the number of Ferrari's in there.

(It's none BTW)

Microsoft are making the noise but the reality is something else.

Of course, finding out what Microsoft's position is on licensed properties it happens to own would fall under the heading of 'research', which is pretty much orthogonal to running butthurt fanboy rants as news. Well done jalopnik! I am sure that there is no need to mention such ventures as the "jalopnik car pack" for Forza because clearly there is no possible conflict of interest worth mentioning on this story.

Just smell that integrity.

 

[chromatic9]

Not many signing up.

 

[Jamezinho]

Which side started this petty, childish licensing war first, though? Is the reason Shift and NFS lack Ferraris because of Microsoft? Or is the reason those games didn't feature Ferrari because EA were playing hardball with Porsche long before that?

Apparently Turn 10 have been approaching EA for 18 months now. That's a year before Shift 2, and over six months before Hot Pursuit.

I know the original Shift got Ferrari via DLC, so what was different with Shift 2?

I don't know who started this but it is easily resolved if Microsoft and EA see sense and realise that sub-licensing to each other is the best course of action here. The way things are they both look bad.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Which side started this petty, childish licensing war first, though? Is the reason Shift and NFS lack Ferraris because of Microsoft? Or is the reason those games didn't feature Ferrari because EA were playing hardball with Porsche long before that?

Apparently Turn 10 have been approaching EA for 18 months now. That's a year before Shift 2, and over six months before Hot Pursuit.

I know the original Shift got Ferrari via DLC, so what was different with Shift 2?

I don't know who started this but it is easily resolved if Microsoft and EA see sense and realise that sub-licensing to each other is the best course of action here. The way things are they both look bad.

Yes, but instead of everyone taking a side....either MS or EA, you have to realize it takes more than one to tango. Because you have these companies pushing blame to one or the other, both hoarding their toys instead of share and share alike, the real loser is the end user (i.e. Us the gamers).

So before you pick your gang, and arm yourself with torches and horror stories about the "other" company, know BOTH are big babies.

 

[Jamezinho]

Well, that was kind of my point. Both sides have played their part in this outcome, aqcuiring exclusives licenses and using them as leverage against the other.

My question was, if both parties have been willing to share in the past, what's changed in this past 18 months for EA to outright block Porsche from Forza?

Shift looks like its been canned and NFS can hardly be considered a competitor. Surely it's in EA's interests to get a revenue from Turn 10 alongside sales of NFS? Seems like EA are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

[boxox]

Yes, but instead of everyone taking a side....either MS or EA, you have to realize it takes more than one to tango. Because you have these companies pushing blame to one or the other, both hoarding their toys instead of share and share alike, the real loser is the end user (i.e. Us the gamers).

So before you pick your gang, and arm yourself with torches and horror stories about the "other" company, know BOTH are big babies.

What have EA said exactly?

Have they blamed Microsoft at any point since they got the Ferrari license for the lack of Ferrari in EA games?

The only representation I've read so far has been the suggestion from the last contracted developer to work on the franchise (who are no longer anything to do with EA at all) that what has probably happened is...

EA offered Microsoft the same terms for Porsche as Microsoft offered EA for Ferrari.

 

[Luminis]

I don't think jalopnik come off well on that at all. Again, EA themselves spend a fair amount of time advertising the very thing these stories draw attention to - winding up a fanboy army and letting them loose to spread it all over the internet is possibly the greatest fail imaginable in getting them to change tack here.

I think you're still assuming that any sort of exposure is a good thing, right?

Oh, there's more from Ian Bell on this over at gameindustry.biz as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, seeing how T10/MS had to agree with stuff like not showing Porsche prior to release in previous Forza games, I find it pretty hypocritical how EA is, all of a sudden, pointing fingers now. If it's about making others jump through hoops, they're not exactly the ones who should be complaining, no?

Of course, finding out what Microsoft's position is on licensed properties it happens to own would fall under the heading of 'research', which is pretty much orthogonal to running butthurt fanboy rants as news. Well done jalopnik! I am sure that there is no need to mention such ventures as the "jalopnik car pack" for Forza because clearly there is no possible conflict of interest worth mentioning on this story.

Just smell that integrity.

Whether the article is biased or not has little to do with the question whether that kind of exposure will help or harm EA's sales, I'd say.

Because you have these companies pushing blame to one or the other, both hoarding their toys instead of share and share alike, the real loser is the end user (i.e. Us the gamers).

Share and share alike, huh. I'm still wondering, how is MS even supposed to "share alike" when they'd have to hand the Ferrari license to EA to be used on the PS3. If that's possible, that is.

My question was, if both parties have been willing to share in the past, what's changed in this past 18 months for EA to outright block Porsche from Forza?

Shift looks like its been canned and NFS can hardly be considered a competitor. Surely it's in EA's interests to get a revenue from Turn 10 alongside sales of NFS? Seems like EA are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

By the time this whole thing started, though, I'd assume that Shift wasn't canned yet. I wouldn't be suprised if things had gotten ugly before Shift 2 was out.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Well, that was kind of my point. Both sides have played their part in this outcome, aqcuiring exclusives licenses and using them as leverage against the other.

My question was, if both parties have been willing to share in the past, what's changed in this past 18 months for EA to outright block Porsche from Forza?

Shift looks like its been canned and NFS can hardly be considered a competitor. Surely it's in EA's interests to get a revenue from Turn 10 alongside sales of NFS? Seems like EA are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I was greeing with you

I dont think we will ever know what happened....it all depends on who you ask.

The dev for Shift, SMS had a falling out or a not great relationship with EA so they are doing their own cross platform, community funded sim. That doesnt mean Shift series is dead, just wont be made by SMS. So there might be something in the works, dunno.

NFS series I doubt will ever be a competitor, but that doesnt mean EA should sub the license out. In a general breakdown of genres "Racing" includes everything from GT, Forza, Burnout, Mario Cart, Driver, etc. etc. So, in a sense if it has a vehicle, its a competitor.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I think you're still assuming that any sort of exposure is a good thing, right?

EA has had bade exposure since they began. Not saying its good or bad, just saying is sure hasnt stopped them, or slowed them down now has it?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, seeing how T10/MS had to agree with stuff like not showing Porsche prior to release in previous Forza games, I find it pretty hypocritical how EA is, all of a sudden, pointing fingers now. If it's about making others jump through hoops, they're not exactly the ones who should be complaining, no?


Again you think one side is better than the other, when you dont work for either, and dont know all the information behind it.

Whether the article is biased or not has little to do with the question whether that kind of exposure will help or harm EA's sales, I'd say.

I doubt EA care. Do you know many years, I have read this line "I am never buying an EA game again...EVER!" ? Many. I dont think its stopped them. You think they are not used to negative exposure?


Share and share alike, huh. I'm still wondering, how is MS even supposed to "share alike" when they'd have to hand the Ferrari license to EA to be used on the PS3. If that's possible, that is.

So, how was Ferarri Challenge ( a sim game with NOTHING but Ferarri's) made for the PS3?


By the time this whole thing started, though, I'd assume that Shift wasn't canned yet. I wouldn't be suprised if things had gotten ugly before Shift 2 was out.

It got ugly after release when it came to support for the game. Again it was a he said/she said type nonsense between SMS, and EA. It it was squashed and the work was allowed to continue, S2 would have been from almost great, to a Near Perfect race sim-game.

In red are my comments.

 

[Luminis]

EA has had bade exposure since they began. Not saying its good or bad, just saying is sure hasnt stopped them, or slowed them down now has it?

I'm not saying it's going to stop them, I'm saying it's not going to be a big plus in their book. Nobody's helping EA by picturing them as the bad giys, whether it's true or not.

Again you think one side is better than the other, when you dont work for either, and dont know all the information behind it.

Let's see, what changed from FM3 to FM4? The Shift franchise. Did it have Ferrari at first? Yes, on the Xbox. Who gave the license ot EA? MS. Did Shift sell well enough for MS to see Shift 2 as any more of a competitor to Forza than any previous NFS? I doubt that.

I see little reason for MS to pull the Ferrari sub-license on the Xbox there. For EA, on the other hand, it would make sense. They can't get the Ferrari license for all of their platforms from MS anyways, so cancelling each other is probably going to hurt MS mor than EA. The only major event that seemingly took place inbetween Shift 1 and Shift 2 was, in retrospect, T10 approaching EA in order to obtain a Porsche sub-license. And looky there, no more Ferrari in Shift afterwards.

The way I see it, there are decent reasons to believe that EA is at fault, at least moreso than MS. Of course, every party involved is to blame (including Porsche), but given what's happened so far, I think it's more reasonable to assume that EA started this whole mess. Also, looking at the NFL license, it's not like it's something they haven't done before.

doubt EA care. Do you know many years, I have read this line "I am never buying an EA game again...EVER!" ? Many. I dont think its stopped them. You think they are not used to negative exposure?

Every big company is (or at least, should be) used to negative exposure. That's not the point. The point is, it's not going to help their cause as has been suggested previously.

So, how was Ferarri Challenge ( a sim game with NOTHING but Ferarri's) made for the PS3?

Well, maybe by optaining the license from whoever is in charge of it (and most likely isn't Microsoft)? I don't know who's in charge of it, but I highly, highly doubt that it's Microsoft. Gran Turismo wouldn't be having Ferrari then. So, if Microsoft can't grant it to EA, are they to blame for not being able to "share alike"?

It got ugly after release when it came to support for the game. Again it was a he said/she said type nonsense between SMS, and EA. It it was squashed and the work was allowed to continue, S2 would have been from almost great, to a Near Perfect race sim-game.

I was on about the licensing deal. At the time that T10/MS started negotiating with EA, EA most likely still did care about Shift and would've had a reeason to try and get a leg up on MS and Forza by having Porsche exclusively to themselves.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I'm not saying it's going to stop them, I'm saying it's not going to be a big plus in their book. Nobody's helping EA by picturing them as the bad giys, whether it's true or not.

Let's see, what changed from FM3 to FM4? The Shift franchise. Did it have Ferrari at first? Yes, on the Xbox. Who gave the license ot EA? MS. Did Shift sell well enough for MS to see Shift 2 as any more of a competitor to Forza than any previous NFS? I doubt that.

I see little reason for MS to pull the Ferrari sub-license on the Xbox there. For EA, on the other hand, it would make sense. They can't get the Ferrari license for all of their platforms from MS anyways, so cancelling each other is probably going to hurt MS mor than EA. The only major event that seemingly took place inbetween Shift 1 and Shift 2 was, in retrospect, T10 approaching EA in order to obtain a Porsche sub-license. And looky there, no more Ferrari in Shift afterwards.

The way I see it, there are decent reasons to believe that EA is at fault, at least moreso than MS. Of course, every party involved is to blame (including Porsche), but given what's happened so far, I think it's more reasonable to assume that EA started this whole mess. Also, looking at the NFL license, it's not like it's something they haven't done before.

Every big company is (or at least, should be) used to negative exposure. That's not the point. The point is, it's not going to help their cause as has been suggested previously.

Well, maybe by optaining the license from whoever is in charge of it (and most likely isn't Microsoft)? I don't know who's in charge of it, but I highly, highly doubt that it's Microsoft. Gran Turismo wouldn't be having Ferrari then. So, if Microsoft can't grant it to EA, are they to blame for not being able to "share alike"?

I was on about the licensing deal. At the time that T10/MS started negotiating with EA, EA most likely still did care about Shift and would've had a reeason to try and get a leg up on MS and Forza by having Porsche exclusively to themselves.

Ill say it again, some people take sides. You obviously believe EA is big bad guy. Some agree. Some believe the big, evil, monopoly that is MS is getting a dose of their own medicine.

Then there are people like me, who knows that "I think", "I believe", "possibly", "probably", and every other speculation is just that....speculation. Without facts (and then depends on who is giving them), unless you are invloved in the licensing and negotiations for one of these companies you cannot say one is worse than the other. Period.

Fact is, it sucks that Porsches wont be in FM4 at release. It sucks that companies have issues with licenses. It sucks that to be competitive between compaies, that gamers end up with the raw end of deal.

 

[Luminis]

Then there are people like me, who knows that "I think", "I believe", "possibly", "probably", and every other speculation is just that....speculation. Without facts (and then depends on who is giving them), unless you are invloved in the licensing and negotiations for one of these companies you cannot say one is worse than the other. Period.

I can, though, look at other cases where EA did the exact same thing they're being accused of here and draw parallels. But, yeah, how likely is it they'd do the same thing more than once, right?

We already know EA likes to incorporate strategies like this. They've done so with Fifa, their NFL games and the PGA, too. I'm sorry, but looking at that, I hardly need to wait for proof that EA continues with that kind of strategy. I also think that the theory that Ms is at fault because of whatever reason seems a bit farfetched, looking at how things went with EA so far.

But yeah, maybe they've changed their ways all of a sudden? Who knows, I'll beg for pardon if my suspicion turns out to be wrong.