Petrol V's Diesel

[YSSMAN]

It would seem to me that Diesel would/should be more appealing to Americans than how it has been of late (torque, highway-speed efficiency). Problem is, so many remember the crappy Diesel Oldsmobile's of the '80s, not to mention the so-so VW diesels of the same era. It has gotten a lot better, and I think many folks would be caught off-guard by how quiet and (now) how powerful they are.

When the '08 Jetta TDI starts off only 10 BHP short of the '07 with the 2.5L I5, comes with a six-speed DSG, and can get nearly 60 MPG on the highway, it just "makes sense" with the little overall increase in cost and the low losses in performance. Granted, I'd normally opt for the Petrol in most cases for the performance applications, but diesel certainly is an option...

 

[GT4 genius]

I've finally decided to vote petrol, but i can see myself buying a diesel some day.

 

[KSaiyu]

Clack, Clack, Clack....no

 

[ExigeEvan]

I've decided I like diesels more, the clutch response is much easier in the Modus than it is in the Almera.

 

[forza2.0]

I've decided I like diesels more, the clutch response is much easier in the Modus than it is in the Almera.

They are two completely different cars though so not much of a comparison. But in the ways of pulling off a diesel will be easier due to having more torque

 

[wfooshee]

I've decided I like diesels more, the clutch response is much easier in the Modus than it is in the Almera.

Which has what to do with the engine's fuel?

Diesel is USELESS for spirited performance driving, Audi's success at LeMans notwithstanding. (That track has HUGE steady-state full-throttle sections, and this year in the ALMS the Audis are being regularly trounced by the lighter-weight LP2 cars on twistier circuits.) The problem with the diesel is the revs. They just aren't there, and that's where horsepower comes from.
Yes, they have almighty torque. They just don't spin fast enough to convert it to horsepower.

For steady-state throttle in a mile-eating vehicle, you can't beat diesel. Clatter away for thousands of miles a day. That's not how I drive, so gasoline it is.

 

[Danoff]

It isn't gaseous.

It is when I'm done with it.

 

[ExigeEvan]

They are two completely different cars though so not much of a comparison. But in the ways of pulling off a diesel will be easier due to having more torque

True, but I know several people who have learnt in (for the UK) diesels and then found a huge different when switching to perol. Yes, there's usually a displacement difference, but it still shows some trend.

Which has what to do with the engine's fuel?

Because the Modus is a 1.5DCi and the Almera is a 1.4i petrol. I'm sure I mentioned it previous in the thread but perhaps I should have repeated it for some...

 

[wfooshee]

But the clutch itself has NOTHING to do with the engine choice. The engineers may have specified a certain clutch for each car (due to differing torque requirements), along with a certain hydraulic boost in the engagement, but using the clutch feel to say you like diesel better is no different than saying you like diesel better because the car is red instead of yellow.

 

[niky]

Which has what to do with the engine's fuel?

Diesel is USELESS for spirited performance driving, Audi's success at LeMans notwithstanding. (That track has HUGE steady-state full-throttle sections, and this year in the ALMS the Audis are being regularly trounced by the lighter-weight LP2 cars on twistier circuits.) The problem with the diesel is the revs. They just aren't there, and that's where horsepower comes from.
Yes, they have almighty torque. They just don't spin fast enough to convert it to horsepower.

For steady-state throttle in a mile-eating vehicle, you can't beat diesel. Clatter away for thousands of miles a day. That's not how I drive, so gasoline it is.

Well, diesel does have its charms... wow, I'm bumping an old thread!

Yes, it needs a turbo to be anything but rubbish. Yes, diesels have no revs.

BUT: No revs means no waiting. When you want power, power is there, right now.

I've just had a pretty fun weekend doing road tests on the Ford Focus TDCi and the Toyota Prius (yeah, I know... the Prius sucks so badly that after every stint, the test-driver assigned to it was desperate to swap keys...). We had my Protege as back-up. It's a comprehensively faster car than the Focus, pushing an estimated 170 horses (versus 135) and good for (against the box) a mid-to-low 15 second quarter-mile. No, it's not a scorcher, but it's not slow.

The Focus barely puffs to 100 km/h in under nine seconds... it has absolutely no power from 4000 rpm to the 4500 rpm redline. Quarter mile? 17, maybe, if you're lucky.

But every time two of us chowderheads were caught together with the Focus and the Protege on an empty stretch... goodbye, Proty. It was freaking embarrasing.

The reason? With my car, power builds up from 4000 rpm to 6500 rpm. You have to work the gears and really stomp on it to get full power.

With the Focus? Just step on the pedal and you're gone. No muss, no fuss. All 135 hp is available right away.

It's still slow against the clock... and with the six speed apparently from the Focus ST, first gear ends at 40 km/h and second ends just below 80 km/h... you just have to shift and shift and shift... it's not the fastest thing, but it'll press you firmly against your seat on each upshift...

Damn... shifting is fun.

And all of this is happening at speeds where your average high-strung gasoline car is barely ticking over in second gear. A few months ago, we were treated to an autocross with this car... I can imagine that with some lightening, this'd make an interesting autocrosser... so much torque that you don't have to shift as often as you would in another vehicle.

I'm returning the car tomorrow. I just got an SMS from one of my co-testers a while ago... asking if I could drive the thirty or so kays up north to meet him for just one, final whang...

Despite having deadlines to meet, and a full day of work ahead... I'm sorely tempted...

 

[Famine]

Yes, it needs a turbo to be anything but rubbish. Yes, diesels have no revs.

BUT: No revs means no waiting. When you want power, power is there, right now.

Not quite. When you want torque, it's there right now.

And the reason? You already mentioned it...


It has a stonking great turbocharger!

 

[forza2.0]

Plus most of the new VAG petrol engines now have give out maximum torque from as little as 1900rpm

 

[niky]

Ooh... caught Famine with his indiglo down! Edit, man! your [tags] are showing!!!

Well... there's a plus to the vehicle being diesel....

You don't really need any more internal reinforcements to the pistons and the block to turbocharge it. Those really strong internals already make the diesel more expensive than the petrol model, but they have the advantage of making it relatively cheaper to turbocharge.

Forgive me for blaspheming... I've been doing economy runs, highway runs, hoonery and drag launches for the past five days compiling data, so I'm still coming down from my diesel "high".

0-100 km/h in 8.6 seconds, quarter mile in 16 seconds. Not exactly world-beating, but at 5 liters per 100 kms on the highway and with the build of a baby Benz, I'm really liking this car.

My gas-burner is still a faster car overall, but the instant gratification that the diesel gives you is just so Playstation generation, it's funny. It's like a rollercoaster... you don't mind that it's not as quick as a jet fighter... it's just as much fun.

Of course... now that the car is gone and the high is wearing off, I'm starting to enjoy my vehicle again. Being able to rev past 5000 rpms is so liberating...