- 10,081
- WFG9
K_Speed, I suggested it to Jame's because his statement implies he may support the policy. "i dont think the americans and others have no right"
Photos from Iraq
- Thread starter rinard
- 489 comments
- 12,609 views
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Make something else clear for yourself, chump. What we consume in America and how much of it is nothing of your freakin business. We don't tell Germans how much beer to drink, we don't tell Italian people how fast to drive their Fiats and we don't tell Brits how to play football.
So how about you get off your high horse and move your self-righteous arse right along?
M
- 10,081
- WFG9
And I skimmed the list, Speed, and no offense, but parts of it are either lacking context; an argument at the time of the decisions that one can presumed caused the consequence that the decisions were wrong in context; vindictive and irrelevant; may not even have been the President's fault.
And Moore is not a well respected person. Your better off citing James Carville, or even Howard Dean.
And Moore is not a well respected person. Your better off citing James Carville, or even Howard Dean.
- 10,081
- WFG9
M-Spec, it's a simplistic assessment but simple sometimes is what makes the most sense. Most of the world, some to varying degrees, want one thing from us: to be socialists, not communists, socialists. If not in exact economic policy than in moral policy. True, they hate our power, and they'd hate such concentration in any nation. Our sense of being beholden to the community in the way collectivists are is less than it is in their societies. They believe, they must, that we can become them yet still provide the environment from which they can advance in economic and social standing.
With the exception of France, most Americans don't think daily about other countries and how much they resent them. Poll 2000 Americans about Portugal, Senegal, Taiwan, almost all of them, see what they say.
With the exception of France, most Americans don't think daily about other countries and how much they resent them. Poll 2000 Americans about Portugal, Senegal, Taiwan, almost all of them, see what they say.
- 10,081
- WFG9
Americans will holler at the chance to journey through a disease-infested jungle if it's over 4,000 miles from they're home and is in someplace exotic.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Yes, I see that. It is an astute observation in the deeper reasoning, but it don't explain some of the really odd-ball stuff some people think about Americans and American policy.
Just breeze through this thread. Some jackleg expected us to teach Iraqis how to kill each other. As if we had a monopoly on how to murder one another and they didn't have a clue.
People think we're there to steal the oil. Like, just haul the stuff away as if no one would see it. Some Americans believe this too.
I dunno. Some of this is baffling to me.
M
- 2,767
I have many doubts, but I still hope that you are right about this.
They don't see it as we don't condem their action, but greatly supported them... without us Israel wouldn't exist. And the weird thing is I am so much more with the jewish for their way of living than the muslims. (and I have friends that are on both sides), but I can't find anything in answer to Muslim anger about us helping a group of people taking over a country on ancestral and religious claims in modern era, and the fact that this issue is still going on today.
While I completly despise their way of protesting against it, I don't agree with the war in Iraq mainly because I think this will bring more of this for many years to come, unless we nuke all the whole middle east, or invade it all. If there was a surge of resentment towards America there after Desert Storm, and that was an international Coalition. what will it be after an unilateral war decided by the US and the UK?
I was apparently wrong believing that I was the target, I explained later why I thought so... true, I reacted quite harshly. My apologies for the milefile there.
- 10,081
- WFG9
Re: my end statement in the previous post regarding American sentiment toward other nations.
- 10,081
- WFG9
Uni means singular.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Alright, I think I've seen enough...
If I was mod in this forum, this would be closed down and finished. I would also have my eye on james1985 and K_speed waiting for the slightest mess up... then banning.
I couldn't believe how overwhelming the anti-bush rhetoric became in the last page.
Basically, the more you guys talk the more you are compromising your own arguments... reason I say that: people take everything into account when they read your post. If you mis-spell, if you use improper grammar, if you show incredible partisanship, if you show obvious anti-americanism, etc, ... all of those things are topics that can destroy the validity of an argument.
If you want to look smart and have people take you seriously, act intelligent, write properly, show little to no bias and give good reasons for your concerns.
Instead of that, we are ending up with flaming and unsupported allegations.
This really is nothing more than a thread for people with agendas to enflame the more level headed members willing to participate and express their own views.
I don't know if I will be back, but in the mean time I suggest that you guys get what you can out of your system.
Later.
btw, with the amount of anti-bush energy in this thread, the entire argument of some is compramised by their obvious partisan politics... that's what it seems this is boiling down to... partisan politics.
Also, anyone calling this vietnam 2 really has destroyed their own argument... if you call this nam 2, you show that you really have no clue what your talking about.
Should I explain that further... maybe, but you know what, the people who need to hear that the most are just jerks, so I wouln't waste my time... but for the rest of you, let me just say "super power support"... hmmm... that's funny, super power support... million man chinese armies, direct legistical support and soviet based supply chains...
Yeah, that's right, not a damn bit of that is in Iraq and hence, the reason that calling this vietnam 2 shows you know nothing about war, and the world's history related to war.
btw, flaming also ruins your arguments when the un-biased reader looks over the post, so remember that too.
Also forgot to mention one final thing... the amount of flaming in this thread means that it has violated the AUP and for that reason is subject to being closed.
Later.
If I was mod in this forum, this would be closed down and finished. I would also have my eye on james1985 and K_speed waiting for the slightest mess up... then banning.
I couldn't believe how overwhelming the anti-bush rhetoric became in the last page.
Basically, the more you guys talk the more you are compromising your own arguments... reason I say that: people take everything into account when they read your post. If you mis-spell, if you use improper grammar, if you show incredible partisanship, if you show obvious anti-americanism, etc, ... all of those things are topics that can destroy the validity of an argument.
If you want to look smart and have people take you seriously, act intelligent, write properly, show little to no bias and give good reasons for your concerns.
Instead of that, we are ending up with flaming and unsupported allegations.
This really is nothing more than a thread for people with agendas to enflame the more level headed members willing to participate and express their own views.
I don't know if I will be back, but in the mean time I suggest that you guys get what you can out of your system.
Later.
btw, with the amount of anti-bush energy in this thread, the entire argument of some is compramised by their obvious partisan politics... that's what it seems this is boiling down to... partisan politics.
Also, anyone calling this vietnam 2 really has destroyed their own argument... if you call this nam 2, you show that you really have no clue what your talking about.
Should I explain that further... maybe, but you know what, the people who need to hear that the most are just jerks, so I wouln't waste my time... but for the rest of you, let me just say "super power support"... hmmm... that's funny, super power support... million man chinese armies, direct legistical support and soviet based supply chains...
Yeah, that's right, not a damn bit of that is in Iraq and hence, the reason that calling this vietnam 2 shows you know nothing about war, and the world's history related to war.
btw, flaming also ruins your arguments when the un-biased reader looks over the post, so remember that too.
Also forgot to mention one final thing... the amount of flaming in this thread means that it has violated the AUP and for that reason is subject to being closed.
Later.
- 2,767
should have said almost unilaterally... my previous post was to put it in a correct way.
GoKents, I agree with you, this isn't going anywhere. Let's sum up what this thread will become to spare us the tedious task of reading it:
You are either a...
A - Whining, jealous and spineless anti-american socialist peace-and-love hippie or pro-terrorist, or both (i.e. you're French).
OR
B - Greedy American imperialist avenger that wants to impose his will to conquer and dominate the world.
Forget about the category C - We have yet to prove that an intelligent species exist somewhere in the universe... but since we just found some water on Mars, there's still some hope!
- 5,622
- eMadman
care to rephrase that for those of us muslims in this board? I don't support the war at all but I DO live in this part of the world, and I DO like living here.
YOU have been living with hate? Try being the one that's hated, insulted and attacked after the events of 9/11. One extreme group of muslims did something stupid and now the rest of us suffer due to ill-educated hicks who don't know the difference between a muslim and a terrorist.
Anyhoo, this thread is going nowhere - just give it a rest already
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
If a Mod is thinking about closing this thread, let me ask that it be moved to Opinons instead... where arguments are more or less expected and is less likely to attract troublemakers.
Well, so do I.
Hey, don't forget. The creation of the State of Israel is one of the very first UN Mandates. You can't just pick and choose which UN policies you think are worth supporting. The Arab states that rejected this mandate went to war with Israel in the first place. The reason we ("we" as in the UN) helped them in the first place was because they were under threat of complete annhilation.
I don't think this was a problem. In fact, support for Israel in the first 10 years or so of its existance was a moral and just cause.
I think a Palestinian should be upset about his plight. I would be too. But they should blame their own leadership as well as Israel, which has had several opportunities to broker peace in the last 10 years, but rejected all of Israel's proposals out of hand.
Remember, it takes two to tango. Placing the blame solely on Israel just because they have the guns is wrong and its lazy.
I don't hold every Saudi personally responsible for bin Laden. Why should an Arab hold me responsible for Sharon and his hawk government??
M
Well, so do I.
Hey, don't forget. The creation of the State of Israel is one of the very first UN Mandates. You can't just pick and choose which UN policies you think are worth supporting. The Arab states that rejected this mandate went to war with Israel in the first place. The reason we ("we" as in the UN) helped them in the first place was because they were under threat of complete annhilation.
I don't think this was a problem. In fact, support for Israel in the first 10 years or so of its existance was a moral and just cause.
I think a Palestinian should be upset about his plight. I would be too. But they should blame their own leadership as well as Israel, which has had several opportunities to broker peace in the last 10 years, but rejected all of Israel's proposals out of hand.
Remember, it takes two to tango. Placing the blame solely on Israel just because they have the guns is wrong and its lazy.
I don't hold every Saudi personally responsible for bin Laden. Why should an Arab hold me responsible for Sharon and his hawk government??
M
- 5,622
- eMadman
placing the blame solely on palestine just because they've got suicide bombers is also wrong and lazy. Both sides had opportunities to broker peace and both sides decided to do something stupid to prevent it from happening. Peace there isn't likely to happen until someone somehow figures out how intervene and please both groups at the same time.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Yeah, actually... um,
NO, I don't care to rephrase that for any muslims or any one else. If you support anti american muslims, I hate you, if you don't then you are just another muslim in the world, nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, I have been living with hate, but not the way you are saying, oh no... I have been living with hate in my heart.
Do you think I like hating? do you think I want to hate people?
Well, no. I don't like to hate, and I don' want to hate.
But after sept. 11th, the hate in my heart grew from almost none at all to being an overwhelming pressence.
That pressence of hate in my heart is what I have been living with and that is what I hate most now. I hate the fact that my heart has been turned to the side of hating people.
And oh yeah, if you think it doesn't bother me that muslims on the other side of the world hate me, and hate my country men, then you are looking at this one sided... when people hate me and my country enough to kill 3,000 civilians, there is hate in their heart and it very much indeed affects my life.
Also, don't reffer to people as dumb hicks just because they hate extremist muslims... we know who terrorist are, and we know what muslims are... I don't need you to act like I get them confused. It's just that you better start recognizing the fact that dumb hicks like me watched the entirity of the muslim world celebrate after sept 11th... celebration over 9/11 does not imply that you are a loving person who is just a victim... oh no, celebrating 9/11 says you are a person with hate in your heart.
And sadly, it seems much of the muslim world does have hate in it's heart.
And sadly, it seems much of the muslim world's hate has flooded my heart and now I am no better than them.
Oh well.
If you want me to feel bad about hating the extremist muslims, then move on, cause first I've gotta stop feeling bad about what has been done to my country, maybe after I get over stuff like 9/11 I will be able to deal with my hateful heart... but until then, no way... I'm gonna hate until they stop hating me.
And yes, I know where that leads...
An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind... but I would rather be blind than watch the horrors of this world.
Tercel_driver
(Banned)
- 1,773
I have never heard about that, but coming from you, I guess you know a LOT about it.
Sure, but I dont see them.
Oh, were you talking about yourself?
You are nothing but biased. Another of those crazy yanks.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,011
- Mile High City
You might give his points a listen instead of writing him off as your generalized concept of "yanks". He's a damn smart guy - knows what he's talking about.
Many times in the past he's prove himself to understand economics and government structure better than I do. I think we could all learn a few things from him.
Tercel_driver
(Banned)
- 1,773
Many times in the past he's prove himself to understand economics and government structure better than I do. I think we could all learn a few things from him.
Nahh, I don't need to learn things from people like them.
Nahh, I don't need to learn things from people like them.
- 8,191
- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
What I'm amazed with is the level of hipocracy here.
I was just thinking about it, and in this thread, we have people like emad.
Emad got mad at me for being upset specifically with extremist anti-american muslims just because he, himself, claims to be muslim.
Then in the same post, this victim of death by association, stereotypes, generalizations, prejudice, discrimination and hate, goes on to express his own stereotypes, generalizations, prejudice, discrimination and hate for dumb hicks.
That is the height of hipocracy.
And tercel_driver, danoff is right about you.
You are acting more ignorant by ignoring the post of M-spec, who just happens to be putting forth sound reasoning with each of his comments.
This thread really has become nothing but trouble.
I want to fuel it a bit though and ask one question to be addressed.
What is it that people are trying to say?
At the moment, I feel like each group in this thread is just working on defensive statements to further their own insults. (ok, frankly, I don't think it is both groups... )
Anyway, I'm hoping I can avoid this thread, but if there's nothing else going on here at the gtp, then I'm gonna have to come back over here.
Maybe by then the air will be a bit cooler.
I doubt it though.
I was just thinking about it, and in this thread, we have people like emad.
Emad got mad at me for being upset specifically with extremist anti-american muslims just because he, himself, claims to be muslim.
Then in the same post, this victim of death by association, stereotypes, generalizations, prejudice, discrimination and hate, goes on to express his own stereotypes, generalizations, prejudice, discrimination and hate for dumb hicks.
That is the height of hipocracy.
And tercel_driver, danoff is right about you.
You are acting more ignorant by ignoring the post of M-spec, who just happens to be putting forth sound reasoning with each of his comments.
This thread really has become nothing but trouble.
I want to fuel it a bit though and ask one question to be addressed.
What is it that people are trying to say?
At the moment, I feel like each group in this thread is just working on defensive statements to further their own insults. (ok, frankly, I don't think it is both groups...
)Anyway, I'm hoping I can avoid this thread, but if there's nothing else going on here at the gtp, then I'm gonna have to come back over here.
Maybe by then the air will be a bit cooler.
I doubt it though.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Originally posted by Tercel_driver
I have never heard about that, but coming from you, I guess you know a LOT about it.
Sure, but I dont see them.
Oh, were you talking about yourself?
You are nothing but biased. Another of those crazy yanks.
Oh wow. Some really snappy come backs there.
I apologize. The award I nominated you for cannot ever hope to do justice to the idiocy you commit everytime you post here. You deserve a much higher honor. Something like "Career Achivement for Most Inane and Worthless Posts" or "GTPlanet's Top Negative Value Added Member."
I'd insist on a speech, but if it doesn't involve pathetic whining or self-absorbed Narcissism, I doubt you'd be interested. Don't forget your sign on the way out, though.
M
