Physics thread

[Cholton82]

Not sure what this means

So some tracks have lots of slow corners with heavy acceleration zones which in a rwd car can make the tyre degradation on the rears quite high so we would call this a rear tyre limited track as you are limited by the life of the rears , and also as mentioned you can have tracks which are front tyre limited which could be one or more of the fronts being worn excessively in comparison to the rears because of high loads through fast corners . I'm not the best at explaining but hope this helps .

 

[GranTurismo guy]

A question about physics in the wet. In GT with the grip set to the real level, and with maximum water on the track, cars are reduced in speed massively. Is this realistic, and is pcars like this?

 

[legatoblues]

A question about physics in the wet. In GT with the grip set to the real level, and with maximum water on the track, cars are reduced in speed massively. Is this realistic, and is pcars like this?

I had some wet running for the first time ever at my last track day. It was actually quite an interesting experience, as the day started with a wet (but drying track), then it dried out, then it rained again and then dried out once more.

The track was a 2.41km in length and my fastest time of the day in excellent conditions (track was dry, but sky was overcast, temp was 19*C) was a 64.4. Looking back to the earlier sessions as the conditions deteriorated, then picked up again, I did a 66.4 on a dry track with colder temps, 25 minutes later for the next session it was raining, not a heavy downpour, but the track was consistently wet and the the rain was steady throughout. Best time was 73.3, notes mention oversteer at the exit of a few corners. Half an hour later for the next session, the rain was still steady and I needed to be very mindful of weight transfer and sharp steering inputs. Best time was a 74.6. We took a break for lunch and after approx 1 hour of no rain, I did a 66.1.

What I find interesting through all of this is that the conditions were able to change quite dramatically in a rather short period of time. For that last session, I noted that the track was very fast and with lots of grip, just one hour after a pretty serious hit of water.

As for the actual experience of lapping in the wet, I actually found it to be quite enjoyable and not as intimidating as I expected it to be. I had to be much smoother with my steering inputs, be very mindful of the way the weight was transferring and be very patient on the throttle and brakes. So yeah, all of that actually sounds pretty obvious and straightforward, but I still find it interesting to look back on and compare to dry running.

 

[NLxAROSA]

In Project CARS, the normal racing line will get wet and slippery (like in real life), so you need to adapt your lines accordingly. On top of that there are puddles, which also cause additional loss of grip.

 

[TexasTyme214]

A question about physics in the wet. In GT with the grip set to the real level, and with maximum water on the track, cars are reduced in speed massively. Is this realistic, and is pcars like this?

According to Ben Collins, you generally lose more longitudinal grip (in real life) rather than all the grip together (like Gran Turismo IMO). Cornering speeds don't fall much, but braking and corner exciting is more difficult. Aquaplaning is what you want to worry about.

I bet you can find the impressions of wet weather towards the end of that 400 page document

 

[Pseudopod]

In Project CARS, the normal racing line will get wet and slippery (like in real life), so you need to adapt your lines accordingly. On top of that there are puddles, which also cause additional loss of grip.

Doesn't gt6 also do this? Except puddles i mean.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Not sure, haven't played GT6 in ages, but I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people on that subject here.

 

[JR98]

Doesn't gt6 also do this? Except puddles i mean.

I don't think so, I think the whole track just gets wet.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The tire model should play a huge role in wet weather performance. Wet tires on a dry track should overheat quickly and be slower and not last long. Dry tires on a wet track should be a significant drop in traction. This is something definitely not well modeled in GT.

 

[Pseudopod]

I don't think so, I think the whole track just gets wet.

It does, but I heard some GT academy commenter say that more water build up on the normal racing line due to that part of the track being slightly lower because of constant track surface wear there. I'm not going to be too adamant about it cause it's really just word of mouth.

 

[legatoblues]

According to Ben Collins, you generally lose more longitudinal grip (in real life) rather than all the grip together (like Gran Turismo IMO). Cornering speeds don't fall much, but braking and corner exciting is more difficult. Aquaplaning is what you want to worry about.

That makes a hell of a lot of sense and perfectly described what I was feeling. Thanks!

 

[Lapse]

The tire model should play a huge role in wet weather performance. Wet tires on a dry track should overheat quickly and be slower and not last long. Dry tires on a wet track should be a significant drop in traction. This is something definitely not well modeled in GT.

If I'm not wrong, in GT are very well modelled but not activated in the career mode. When the rain reaches the 30% on the surface in the online room (or more than 70%), and the grip loss is set to real, the slick tyres are completly useless, and the medium tyres too when you aproach the 70%. Is incredible how they have a very good engine but they only use it for some kind of casual gamer mode (like forced SRF or the ABS1 too)

 

[TexasTyme214]

If I'm not wrong, in GT are very well modelled but not activated in the career mode. When the rain reaches the 30% on the surface in the online room (or more than 70%), and the grip loss is set to real, the slick tyres are completly useless, and the medium tyres too when you aproach the 70%. Is incredible how they have a very good engine but they only use it for some kind of casual gamer mode (like forced SRF or the ABS1 too)

It's decent if you do it online, but there's room for improvement. I've seen Johnny online a couple times actually.

 

[WarriusZero]

I'm actually impatient to try driving on the wet in Project CARS to confirm if my view of GT is correct or not. I think you lose far too much grip with the CS tyres, for example.


[Edit: no, the assumption below has to be wrong.]
But then perhaps Project CARS doesn't offer road legal tyres on road cars, does it?

 

[Lapse]

It's decent if you do it online, but there's room for improvement. I've seen Johnny online a couple times actually.

I have no doubt about johnny OFC. I mean the basics of response expected in rain are there and they are not bad, so it's true that they are not polished, the loss is usually complete in high amounts of rain on track and not allow any margin for maneuver. But I think the game has a potential that has not been exploded in most aspects.

 

[blowfishrulez]

But then perhaps Project CARS doesn't offer road legal tyres on road cars, does it?

Road Cars have the corresponding Road Tires from the time the cars were made, some models have a selection of tires for Road or Track usage. If in the release Version of PCars the Pagani Huayra for example seems to have too much gip, just change to the Pirelli P Zero Road tires and gone is the grippyness of the Pirelli Trofeo (R).

 

[Johnnypenso]

Road Cars have the corresponding Road Tires from the time the cars were made, some models have a selection of tires for Road or Track usage. If in the release Version of PCars the Pagani Huayra for example seems to have too much gip, just change to the Pirelli P Zero Road tires and gone is the grippyness of the Pirelli Trofeo (R).

Now that I think about it, does every race car come with a set of rain tires and intermediates if applicable? Road cars have no rain tires correct?

 

[blowfishrulez]

Now that I think about it, does every race car come with a set of rain tires and intermediates if applicable? Road cars have no rain tires correct?

Yes, Yes

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Which car in the game has the trickiest tyres?

 

[FuriousDemon]

Lotus 49 I think.
If you want tricky brakes, try McLaren F1. That thing is freaking annoying

 

[Goruk]

Someone told me that PC has a lot more grip than GT, is this true?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Someone told me that PC has a lot more grip than GT, is this true?

No...and yes. Depends on the tires you choose. You can put comfort hards on any car in GT and every car in PCars will have more grip. You can put RS tires on any car in GT and every car will have more grip than in PCars.

PCars aims to represent the grip levels and tire characteristics of the real life counterparts to game cars. A modern race car has a ton of grip, one from the 60's would not even be close and PCars will attempt to replicate that. GT doesn't have era specific tires nor do they match tire grip levels to individual cars so there's no way to accurately compare the two games. Real life is the true benchmark.

 

[TexasTyme214]

Someone told me that PC has a lot more grip than GT, is this true?

It depends on what you mean when you say grip. A lot of people say the game is easier because they aren't near the limit. If you aren't near the world record lap times, it's likely to feel easy. But, the grip levels in the game aren't higher such that lap times are much faster than in Gran Turismo.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

If you want tricky brakes, try McLaren F1. That thing is freaking annoying

Impressive. Irl both Martin Brundle and Tiff Needell have criticised the f1's brakes. PCARS replicating that well then 👍

 

[FuriousDemon]

Impressive. Irl both Martin Brundle and Tiff Needell have criticised the f1's brakes. PCARS replicating that well then 👍

Oh yeah, and then some...

Overall I think physics for most cars are true to life. When devs update car physics, they usually post some notes to go along with it. They detail the type of suspension/brakes/turbo/whateverelse in the notes, which matches the real vehicle, so they must have some sort of library of code that replicates that specific type of technology and I guess they just "plug it in" somehow into the overall car physics model.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Oh yeah, and then some...

Overall I think physics for most cars are true to life. When devs update car physics, they usually post some notes to go along with it. They detail the type of suspension/brakes/turbo/whateverelse in the notes, which matches the real vehicle, so they must have some sort of library of code that replicates that specific type of technology and I guess they just "plug it in" somehow into the overall car physics model.

Indeed. This detail is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking forward to experiencing.

 

[DirtDrift]

If you want tricky brakes, try McLaren F1. That thing is freaking annoying

So the F1 brakes are poor then even though its a fast car??????

How about drifting? Can you do that with corner drift to the side so you dont need to break will that work in PC?

Can you destroy the clutch too if you just abuse it too?

 

[bleeder]

trying to slow down the F1 in any game is always a challenge. I guess they weren't too concerned with the thing actually braking well when they designed it.

 

[PJTierney]

So the F1 brakes are poor then even though its a fast car??????

There's a good explanation of why in this video:

 

[gtracedriver1]

I know a good video can make a physics look good as well. Obviously this is not one of them. Looks barely driveable as he is not even pushing the car much