Physics thread

[mister dog]

I know it's can be disappointing especially if you just bought a new wheel but you don't have to throw anything in the garbage. I made the choice to sell my Fanatec CSR and Elite pedals on eBay, then ordered a Thrustmaster TX and still have $50 in my pocket. Granted I am not comparing apple to apples as far as the pedals go but the base unit is better than the CSR and I will replace the pedals (possibly the TX300) in the near future. The end result is maybe a little more out of pocket but surely not throwing anything away. I still want a wheel for PC (pCARS, AC, ...) and X1 (FM series, ...).

Smart thinking on your part, but you were forced to do so anyway in order to be able to play FM5 like it should be played. Let's say you limited the damages making that switch now, and making a good deal in the process.
I'm happy with my CSR, it's a good wheel so i really don't feel like selling it less than a year after having bought it, just because of those MS policies.

If i would stay with consoles i would also prefer the Xbone for FM (as PD will never get the message and return to competent form they are just hopeless), but in any case as i prefer the racing more than the car collecting aspect i will probably switch to the master race and still use my CSR

 

[Whitestar]

Very excited for Project CARS. Currently I'm playing a lot of Assetto Corsa, which is incredible, and is also being labeled as "Next generation". Has anyone tried both and can put up some sort of comparison?

 

[LVracerGT]

As far as wheel compatibility on PS4, I think we'll be fine. I remember playing the first F1 game released on PS3 with no FFB due to the legal battle Sony was in over rumble pack technology, but it was later added in a patch after they resolved the legal issues.

It wouldn't be smart for Sony to not support current Logitech wheels, even if they officially aren't producing any new wheels. All it will take is a software update and boom, wheels supported.

 

[LogiForce]

As far as wheel compatibility on PS4, I think we'll be fine. I remember playing the first F1 game released on PS3 with no FFB due to the legal battle Sony was in over rumble pack technology, but it was later added in a patch after they resolved the legal issues.

It wouldn't be smart for Sony to not support current Logitech wheels, even if they officially aren't producing any new wheels. All it will take is a software update and boom, wheels supported.

Yup, a software/driver update by Logitech who stepped out of the market. This includes further support on consoles. So no new software/drivers, no working old wheels.

 

[frivoloushobby]

When it comes to wheel compatibility I've seen everything: "wheels will work, wheels will not work." The linked article is slightly less depressing. Honestly, I'm just waiting until a true racing game comes out and see what the developers say at that point regarding my G27.

I get what Logiforce is saying about Logitech backing out of the wheel market, but the PS4 is early in it's lifecycle and a game worthy of a racing wheel is still many months away from being released for PS4. So, I'm not overly concerned (at least not yet) that my G27 isn't supported right now.

Hell, I find it more annoying that I still can't watch my TV episodes or movies on PS4 I downloaded from PSN and the PS4 can't handle MP3s yet either.
http://www.simdriving.net/news/all-ps3-compatible-wheels-to-work-on-ps4

 

[LVracerGT]

Yup, a software/driver update by Logitech who stepped out of the market. This includes further support on consoles. So no new software/drivers, no working old wheels.

The software update would be from Sony though (PS4 system update). One would think all they would have to do is add the support, since they already have the drivers for PS3, it wouldn't be difficult to add it to the PS4.

At that point, it would be up to the game developers to add the support through the game. GT5 was a perfect example. The PS3 was G25/27 compatible, but PD did not officially support the wheels at first, making button mapping impossible.

 

[LogiForce]

The software update would be from Sony though (PS4 system update). One would think all they would have to do is add the support, since they already have the drivers for PS3, it wouldn't be difficult to add it to the PS4.

At that point, it would be up to the game developers to add the support through the game. GT5 was a perfect example. The PS3 was G25/27 compatible, but PD did not officially support the wheels at first, making button mapping impossible.

I already explained that PS3 drivers aren't compatible with the PS4 and why. I am not going to repeat myself. It just isn't that simple and even technically impossible.

I want to have as much wheels to be compatible with both consoles as you do though. The more the better. Just plug it in via USB and go if wireless communication is a big no. I wish it was that simple, as maybe I would think of buying a console if I could use any of my wheels.

All is up in the air still. We only know for sure the Thrustmaster T80 is PS4 compatible as it is made for it, as well as the Thrustmaster TX being made for the XB1. The rest is guess work for me.
I am sure it will all stabilize and our questions will be answered over time. New consoles always raise a lot of questions. Wasn't it the same with the last gen, as I vaguely remember such thing?

 

[LVracerGT]

I already explained that PS3 drivers aren't compatible with the PS4 and why. I am not going to repeat myself. It just isn't that simple and even technically impossible.

Ah, sorry I must have missed that.

 

[LogiForce]

Ah, sorry I must have missed that.

No worries. I said it a bit crudely, the not repeating myself bit. My apologies too. No need to shiver, mate. Used the wrong words as I am feeling sick at the moment, so got a bit of a regrettable short fuse.

 

[skazz]

Very excited for Project CARS. Currently I'm playing a lot of Assetto Corsa, which is incredible, and is also being labeled as "Next generation". Has anyone tried both and can put up some sort of comparison?

I expect almost everyone who is part of pCARS WMD has also purchased and tried AC

Right now, if you just want to run both sims without heavy tweaking deep inside .ini files, I'd rate build 0.7.7 AC leaps ahead of pre-alpha pCARS. The reason is obvious, namely polish:

• AC offers a small set of unique cars and laser scanned tracks. They have clearly put a huge amount of work into their FFB engine and the general experience of the user, and they have focused on ensuring content of the highest quality is almost completely finished before releasing it to "early access" end users (except for AI, which they deliberately showed us ahead of time because they needed extensive feedback).
• pCARS offers a much larger selection of cars and tracks even today, but it's all heavily work-in-progress. So while their physics engine and tyre model is more advanced than AC, the final end user polish isn't there yet so it's a hugely variable experience and for me so far I've not found a single car which "clicks" for me like AC manages with such polish. This will get better as we move past pre-alpha into beta, of course.
  One other aspect is less easy to predict improvement, though: pCARS tracks are being made the "old" way based on modelling and recreation rather than a point cloud (except for Brands). I am concerned that this will prove to be a big differentiator, since at least for me the differences on tracks like Silverstone verge on the frustrating: When I get an almost identical track experience in GT6 and AC, the differences in pCARS' model feel very out of place, even though it's a pretty accurate model....

None of what I'm saying is anything more than a moment-in-time analysis, of course. pCARS is still pre-alpha and the WMD backers are being given unprecedented levels of access to code which absolutely isn't ready for public consumption yet.

And to be honest I'm not a very good member of WMD community at the moment, because I'm not putting large amounts of time into testing and providing feedback. But the truth is that my simracing time is limited enough, and even in the latest pCARS builds I find myself playing for 5-10 minutes then realising that another AI race in AC will put a bigger smile on my face and I switch over.

All is up in the air still. We only know for sure the Thrustmaster T80 is PS4 compatible as it is made for it,?

Not quite, we also know that T500 drivers exist in the PS4 OS, that unlike Fanatec or Logitech wheels it spins up when connected to a PS4 (but can't be used for PS4 menus, unlike the T80) and that Driveclub devs have confirmed months ago that it works in game.

 

[Igano]

I expect almost everyone who is part of pCARS WMD has also purchased and tried AC

Right now, if you just want to run both sims without heavy tweaking deep inside .ini files, I'd rate build 0.7.7 AC leaps ahead of pre-alpha pCARS. The reason is obvious, namely polish:

• AC offers a small set of unique cars and laser scanned tracks. They have clearly put a huge amount of work into their FFB engine and the general experience of the user, and they have focused on ensuring content of the highest quality is almost completely finished before releasing it to "early access" end users (except for AI, which they deliberately showed us ahead of time because they needed extensive feedback).
• pCARS offers a much larger selection of cars and tracks even today, but it's all heavily work-in-progress. So while their physics engine and tyre model is more advanced than AC, the final end user polish isn't there yet so it's a hugely variable experience and for me so far I've not found a single car which "clicks" for me like AC manages with such polish. This will get better as we move past pre-alpha into beta, of course.
  One other aspect is less easy to predict improvement, though: pCARS tracks are being made the "old" way based on modelling and recreation rather than a point cloud (except for Brands). I am concerned that this will prove to be a big differentiator, since at least for me the differences on tracks like Silverstone verge on the frustrating: When I get an almost identical track experience in GT6 and AC, the differences in pCARS' model feel very out of place, even though it's a pretty accurate model....

None of what I'm saying is anything more than a moment-in-time analysis, of course. pCARS is still pre-alpha and the WMD backers are being given unprecedented levels of access to code which absolutely isn't ready for public consumption yet.

And to be honest I'm not a very good member of WMD community at the moment, because I'm not putting large amounts of time into testing and providing feedback. But the truth is that my simracing time is limited enough, and even in the latest pCARS builds I find myself playing for 5-10 minutes then realising that another AI race in AC will put a bigger smile on my face and I switch over.

Not quite, we also know that T500 drivers exist in the PS4 OS, that it spins up (but can't be used for menus, unlike the T80) and that Driveclub devs have confirmed months ago that it works in game.

We're in almost the same spot

 

[LVracerGT]

No worries. I said it a bit crudely, the not repeating myself bit. My apologies too. No need to shiver, mate. Used the wrong words as I am feeling sick at the moment, so got a bit of a regrettable short fuse.

No offence taken, I can be the same way 👍

 

[LogiForce]

Not quite, we also know that T500 drivers exist in the PS4 OS, that unlike Fanatec or Logitech wheels it spins up when connected to a PS4 (but can't be used for PS4 menus, unlike the T80) and that Driveclub devs have confirmed months ago that it works in game.

This does not say anything, Skazz.

If you own a T500, go into your PC's BIOS (by hitting either 'Del' or 'F2' on your keyboard) and hook up the T500. You will see it boot up as well.
What this means is that as soon as the T500 has the power supply hooked up (for powering the FFB motor) and the USB connector hooked up (for powering the electronics), the T500 starts itself up and this calibration is just part of its boot process. A process that is integrated into the firmware of the wheel.
The CSW does this as well, but because it does not require USB power for the electronics it can do this procedure standalone.

So yeah, for me this doesn't tell me all that much yet.

 

[LeMansAid]

Yup, a software/driver update by Logitech who stepped out of the market. This includes further support on consoles. So no new software/drivers, no working old wheels.

Logitech may still want to provide a driver for PS4 to hold on to market share, thus stopping other companies having free(ish) reign on filling the breach. Sometimes ensuring earning options is just as important as earning.

 

[Imari]

Logitech may still want to provide a driver for PS4 to hold on to market share, thus stopping other companies having free(ish) reign on filling the breach. Sometimes ensuring earning options is just as important as earning.

If they have no intention of ever getting back into the peripherals market, I don't see why they'd bother. Holding onto a section of the market you're never going to use is almost worthless.

 

[LeMansAid]

Could be a cheap insurance policy. That's all.

 

[fatkrakr]

I think people are reading to much into what Logitech has said. They put out a statement that they are leaving the console market, but nothing about not supporting their products. While LogiForce could be right and Logitech will completely abandon the wheel market on the console, I think its more likely their announcement was stating they wont be looking to be an official wheel for GT anymore. It would make no business sense for Logitech not to submit what they need for their wheels to work. They can still sell thousands of wheels for the PS4 without be an official wheel. So while there is no guarantee the loigitech wheels will work, the chances of them not working is a lot smaller than the chances of them working.

 

[FLX1981]

Found in the Driveclub thread:

http://www.simdriving.net/news/all-ps3-compatible-wheels-to-work-on-ps4

"Col Rodgers, Game Director on upcoming PS4 racing game DriveClub, has confirmed all current commercial racing wheels compatible with PlayStation 3 will also be fully compatible with PlayStation 4."

So there is hope.

 

[spinner]

I expect almost everyone who is part of pCARS WMD has also purchased and tried AC

Right now, if you just want to run both sims without heavy tweaking deep inside .ini files, I'd rate build 0.7.7 AC leaps ahead of pre-alpha pCARS. The reason is obvious, namely polish:

• AC offers a small set of unique cars and laser scanned tracks. They have clearly put a huge amount of work into their FFB engine and the general experience of the user, and they have focused on ensuring content of the highest quality is almost completely finished before releasing it to "early access" end users (except for AI, which they deliberately showed us ahead of time because they needed extensive feedback).
• pCARS offers a much larger selection of cars and tracks even today, but it's all heavily work-in-progress. So while their physics engine and tyre model is more advanced than AC, the final end user polish isn't there yet so it's a hugely variable experience and for me so far I've not found a single car which "clicks" for me like AC manages with such polish. This will get better as we move past pre-alpha into beta, of course.
  One other aspect is less easy to predict improvement, though: pCARS tracks are being made the "old" way based on modelling and recreation rather than a point cloud (except for Brands). I am concerned that this will prove to be a big differentiator, since at least for me the differences on tracks like Silverstone verge on the frustrating: When I get an almost identical track experience in GT6 and AC, the differences in pCARS' model feel very out of place, even though it's a pretty accurate model....

None of what I'm saying is anything more than a moment-in-time analysis, of course. pCARS is still pre-alpha and the WMD backers are being given unprecedented levels of access to code which absolutely isn't ready for public consumption yet.

And to be honest I'm not a very good member of WMD community at the moment, because I'm not putting large amounts of time into testing and providing feedback. But the truth is that my simracing time is limited enough, and even in the latest pCARS builds I find myself playing for 5-10 minutes then realising that another AI race in AC will put a bigger smile on my face and I switch over.

Well said. I'll take quality over quantity any day and right now AC wins hands down. Pcars continues to disappoint when it comes down to the pure driving experience though. Their one step forward , two steps back tradition continues. I rarely update to the latest build these days , maybe once every 2 months. I've come to expect nothing special each time I do and unfortunately those expectations are always met.

 

[Baltimore212]

Does anyone have any guesses about wheter or not the finished pars will be comparable physics wise to iracing? Also, would the ps4 version be just as good as the regular pc one, or would they have to cut corners?

 

[Samus]

Does anyone have any guesses about wheter or not the finished pars will be comparable physics wise to iracing? Also, would the ps4 version be just as good as the regular pc one, or would they have to cut corners?

Impossible to say on point 1, and it depends entirely how you rate iRacing. On the latter in terms purely of physics they will be 100% identical.

 

[Imari]

The thing with iRacing is that they spend an enormous amount of time tweaking each individual car to be just right, which is why they release maybe half a dozen cars in a good year.

pCARS might be able to approach that level of attention to detail on every car because of the whole community involvement thing, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Accuracy aside, the underlying physics seem to be as deep or deeper than iRacing. See the 76 heating zones per wheel or whatever ludicrous number it was.

I'd be fairly confident in saying the pCARS physics system is capable of being as good as iRacing if it gets dialled in right. Will it be? Like Samus says, it's impossible to say when it changes every week.

 

[LogiForce]

Today we got some new tyres to test on the Formula C. This after a lengthy debate on bite on corner entry, mid-corner and exit.

I personally love the balance of the Formula C R9-B tyre, and only needed to change the accerlation lock on the differential a bit from the default setup (to counter some corner exit on throttle oversteer).

I wanted to post this here to demonstrate the latest Physics improvements, and to see what the outside crowd thinks and what questions it might raise.
If the mods are against it... I will move and link it.


Enjoy me doing a (not so quick... I think) lap around the green hell. I am not the best driver though, so go easy on me.

Edit: *bangs head* Forgot to turn the audio on in the capture software. (too tired from meds and time of day to record again (almost 6 in the morning ugh))

 

[bolloman]

pcars physics are crappy arcade. its more a screenshot simulator then a driving simulator. everyone just see the great graphic and hear the nice sound and think wow this must be a super game. it isnt. with last patch they even add the stupid foliage on track from shift 2. its a arcade racer with nice optics.

 

[Punknoodle]

Have you even played it?

 

[BSD200]

pcars physics are crappy arcade. its more a screenshot simulator then a driving simulator. everyone just see the great graphic and hear the nice sound and think wow this must be a super game. it isnt. with last patch they even add the stupid foliage on track from shift 2. its a arcade racer with nice optics.

Damn, just yestarday Rene Rast said that the R8 LMS was close to the real thing, just some details like slow corner entry. And now it turns out that he was completely wrong.
Should have learnt my lesson not to trust professional racing drivers over random internet guys...

 

[bolloman]

Have you even played it?

since 2011, almost every patch. yes

 

[FLX1981]

Ok. But the question is... why? If the physics are so crappy arcade, why waste so much of your precious time then? You know you can get a refund anytime, right?

 

[Imari]

pcars physics are crappy arcade. its more a screenshot simulator then a driving simulator. everyone just see the great graphic and hear the nice sound and think wow this must be a super game. it isnt. with last patch they even add the stupid foliage on track from shift 2. its a arcade racer with nice optics.

What is crappy arcade about it? I assume you're not judging it using the cars that are on alpha physics each time you test. I find the cars that are near finalised physics to generally feel pretty good. Perhaps you could describe the feelings you're having so that they can be reported and addressed.

And it's not great graphics for me, my computer can barely handle it at the moment.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Just ignor, he's just looking for an argument.