Pit stop delay, is it some kind of bug?

[Lebowski]

It's definitely not right. Take the sport mode race at Bathurst for example, you pit in through the esses, parallel to that short home straight, yet it takes an absolute age to get to your pit box, a completely unreasonable amount of time given how short the pit lane is. Yet as soon as the car is off the air jacks it's completely exited the pits and is now directly on the small slip road out to the long straight.

 

[Mafio]

You know what else I just thought about? Its probably a hidden loading screen. They just keep the timer going to sell the dream lol.

 

[newmedia_dev]

You know what else I just thought about? Its probably a hidden loading screen. They just keep the timer going to sell the dream lol.

It's definitely not right. Take the sport mode race at Bathurst for example, you pit in through the esses, parallel to that short home straight, yet it takes an absolute age to get to your pit box, acompletely umreasonable amount of time given how short the pit lane is. Yet as soon as the car is off the air jacks it's completely exited the pits and is now directly on the small slip road out to the long straight.

You know what else I just thought about? Its probably a hidden loading screen. They just keep the timer going to sell the dream lol.

Its all smoke and mirrors.

Not realistic in the slightest but everyone has the same thing so it's a non issue really. Especially in sports mode.

 

[Famine]

the timer

I've long had this theory that the whole pit lane teleportation thing - which started in Sport in 2017, after 20 years of doing it right - was to mask a timing issue arising from the integration of TAG Heuer's timing technology.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I've long had this theory that the whole pit lane teleportation thing - which started in Sport in 2017, after 20 years of doing it right - was to mask a timing issue arising from the integration of TAG Heuer's timing technology.

I think that's a stretch.

Because of the way animations are and that the cut is the same for everyone yet pit exit differs with cars. It's more likely loading all the options you can choose and in most cases the wets and IM's are available.

Again it's smoke and mirrors for programming reasons.

Assuming this is for loading reasons is the Occam's razor approach on these things.

 

[Famine]

I think that's a stretch.

Perhaps, but that was among the most significant (as far as we know) of the engine changes from GT6.

Multiple tyre options were available in the pits in GT6 and that included - since you could, of course, race in variable weather in GT6 too - wet tyre options, but the game did not feature the same pitlane teleportation (which also removes cars from the minimap, moves them to a pit box, and then moves them to pit exit; this also results in some skittish leaderboard changes, worse earlier in the game's life, affecting cars in pit lane). I'm not sure that this explains the difference in pit lane behaviour between the two games.

Prior to Sport, GT had no trouble keeping cars in the pit lane live and timed in the right positions. From Sport - where TAG Heuer was a "timing partner", and PD "integrated TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology" into the game - and on (GT7 being of course built on Sport's engine), cars have had to be teleported.


We can't know, and we might never know, but a significant timing technology change appearing in the first game with a significant pitlane behaviour change which also affects live timing would seem to point to a more related pair of phenomena.

 

[newmedia_dev]

We can't know, and we might never know, but a significant timing technology change appearing in the first game with a significant pitlane behaviour change which also affects live timing would seem to point to a more related pair of phenomena.

No the branding of the timing changed. It might be Rolex next as the FIA timing brand of the moment, might be Tissot.

I'm not sure that's a thing, just brand placement.

The last I looked which was a long time ago the clock speed of the CPU was a Sony hardware manufacturer thing but who knows maybe pitstops work the way they do because of tacit 4th party sponsors?

Is a tag more accurate than a Rolex? I mean they are all COSEC certified so I'd imagine a watches tolerances are a lot less than a CPU/GPU

Edit:

And a significant tyre change happened along side a physics update which on the surface seems to be largely grip related and really it's a mix of car settings and grip.

 

[Famine]

No the branding of the timing changed.

That'd be an assumption (and there was no branding of the timing after GT4; Seiko, for reference). Quoting Occam's Razor (which is actually "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity", rather than the more popular version) and then making more assumptions is definitely a mood.

Remember, the announcement with TAG Heuer specifically referred to PD having "integrated TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology" into GT Sport. We don't really know what that means, but assuming it did nothing but stick TAG Heuer branding everywhere is not intrinsically safe - especially as that was a secondary part of the announcement in addition to the primary part.

The last I looked which was a long time ago the clock speed of the CPU was a Sony hardware manufacturer thing but who knows maybe pitstops work the way they do because of tacit 4th party sponsors?

Is a tag more accurate than a Rolex? I mean they are all COSEC certified so I'd imagine a watches tolerances are a lot less than a CPU/GPU

I don't know what CPU clock speed and the accuracy of watch brands or watches has to do with anything in particular.

What does "TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology" do? I don't know; I can't say. Do you know? That phrase doesn't appear to exist before the GT Sport announcement as far as I can tell. It may be marketing (but it'd be odd to say "hey we're doing this, also some marketing" if both things are marketing; not unheard of, but odd), it may not be. I have no idea. Do you?

Assuming it does nothing isn't a safe assumption. Neither is the opposite assumption, which is why I didn't make it. However, we cannot - not knowing what it does or doesn't do - exclude it from an explanation of what we see which is that the first game to include it is also the first game to pull cars out of existence and out of live timing when they go into the pits (and the second game, which uses the same game engine, does the same).

That's why I said "I've long had this theory that the whole pit lane teleportation thing - which started in Sport in 2017, after 20 years of doing it right - was to mask a timing issue arising from the integration of TAG Heuer's timing technology," because a theory is an explanation of all observations. If you're excluding the whole TAG Heuer thing on the assumption that it does nothing, you're not covering all the observations based on assumptions.

This:

It's more likely loading all the options you can choose and in most cases the wets and IM's are available.

Is an absolute non-starter of an explanation, because GT6 did that too and didn't have pitlane teleportation.


Again, we don't know, and we may never know, why Sport/7 have this weird pit thing going on that no other previous games.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I don't know what CPU clock speed and the accuracy of watch brands or watches has to do with anything in particular

I think that was the crux of my point ignoring all the the histrionics.

The timing runs to the clock speed counter... my point the sponsoring brand doesn't influence that, as the game is not modelling automatic or quartz watch timing :/

The reality is that they are controlling the pit lane time, whether they made animations or not is moot. They had different tracks in the prior games, other cars etc....so yeah one does this or that is again a bit moot.

The pitstops are jarring, but consistent, cars have differences on exit (on the proviso you can enter at the same speed as well in them)

Im still struggling to understand how a brand logo somehow influences these things considering that their timepiece are not as accurate as a CPU/GPU? When the given tolerances of all of those manufactures watches run a +/- 6 second 48 tolerance.

Coincidence is not causation and nor is it correlation.

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with?

 

[Famine]

I think that was the crux of my point ignoring all the the histrionics.

What histrionics?

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with?

As far as I'm aware, I've not disagreed with anything except the notion that the tyre changes that GT6 also had necessitates any kind of loading screen, since GT6 didn't have that.

 

[Tidgney]

@Tidgney did a video, while the cut scenes are the same length some cars get a marginal advantage because of gearing but it's marginal. The pits are the same for everyone and you can adjust the length in custom races especially with fuelling per second.

They are indeed, in fact the way the pit footage works is there's an option not available to players but it is in the secret menu where you can specify how long the pit scene should take. It effectively becomes replay footage or like the scape movies until that timer is reached.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Remember, the announcement with TAG Heuer specifically referred to PD having "integrated TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology" into GT Sport

What histrionics?

Those histrionics?

 

[Famine]

Those histrionics?

I don't really know why you're choosing to interpret a literal statement of fact (and indeed quoted from the original source) as melodramatic, but it's pretty weird to do.

TAG Heuer and Gran Turismo Sport Partnership Announced at the Geneva Motor Show

On 8th March 2017, 'Gran Turismo' series Producer Kazunori Yamauchi and Jean-Claude Biver, CEO of ...

www.gran-turismo.com

Perhaps limit yourself to reading the words that are actually there rather than interpreting a mood or tone into them. I've not done the same with your posts, and it's both intensely discourteous and a poor discussion technique to do so.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I don't really know why you're choosing to interpret a literal statement of fact (and indeed quoted from the original source) as melodramatic, but it's pretty weird to do.

TAG Heuer and Gran Turismo Sport Partnership Announced at the Geneva Motor Show

On 8th March 2017, 'Gran Turismo' series Producer Kazunori Yamauchi and Jean-Claude Biver, CEO of ...

www.gran-turismo.com

Perhaps limit yourself to reading the words that are actually there rather than interpreting a mood or tone into them. I've not done the same with your posts, and it's both intensely discourteous and a poor discussion technique to do so.

This is not a hill I want to die on. I thought we were debating opinions.

This is not discourteous discussion nor is it flametory.

It was debating different points.

As others have pointed out with more access than either of us they manipulate pit stops but it has nothing to do with timing sponsors but a way to manage races the way they want.

I will reiterate, this is not a hill I want to die on but also I was neither discourteous (non agreeable 100% yes) or rude or disingenuous.

Edit:

I'm not sure which of my posts were rude, or discourteous. Position yes, direct yes but none were rude or deliberately impolite. In fact reading them back they seemed measured to the arguement we were discussing. I'm not sure how anyone could be offended with what I said.

 

[Famine]

This is not discourteous discussion nor is it flametory ... I was neither discourteous (non agreeable 100% yes) or rude or disingenuous.

Referring to someone else's points by a negative tone you have invented, without cause, is extremely rude.

I was discussing my points. You were apparently discussing "histrionics".

If you don't want to die on that hill, don't make it a hill in the first place...

I guess we're done here.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Referring to someone else's points by a negative tone you have invented, without cause, is extremely rude.

I was discussing my points. You were apparently discussing "histrionics".

If you don't want to die on that hill, don't make it a hill in the first place...

I guess we're done here.

What negative tone?

I was putting my points forward fairly as well?

You referenced things in the past and I questioned that? Come on.

Sigh. Ok we are done here. I'll get my own coat.

 

[Famine]

Hmm, guess not.

What negative tone?

histrionics

No idea why you're doing this - both the initial act and now this subsequent pretence - but it's pretty silly.

This is a hill of your own making. You can climb off it at any time of your choosing.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Hmm, guess not.


No idea why you're doing this - both the initial act and now this subsequent pretence - but it's pretty silly.

This is a hill of your own making. You can climb off it at any time of your choosing.

I'm off this hill 👍 😄

 

[jonoholland29]

Just to add my own knowledge and experience from this.

The F1 timing “software” has been the same for many decades and is made in house. The Tag Heuere, Siemens, Rolex whoever is simply a sponsor.

This is true in karting too. You may see a few karting centres with Tag Heure branding - they haven’t made anything I can assure you. It’s a French company called Chronelec who Tag used to sponsor.

Nowadays it’s mostly AMB MyLaps equipment with either Apex, Alpha, TSL, Orbits software. All of which run off the decoder clocks so they’ll be as accurate as the crystals in them if the older style or the GPS

 

[bduddy]

Famine you're normally pretty grounded but I have no idea why you're buying into some complete nonsense marketing drivel. The Tag Heuer deal was a brand, nothing more. As should be made clear that at it disappeared without affecting anything else in the game at all, and more importantly that at some point, the newer tracks switched from the old "car gets delayed for an eternity before appearing in the box, getting serviced, then exiting immediately" system to a "car is shown driving into the box, getting serviced, then driving out" system. The interminable delay of the older tracks is just an attempt to simulate the amount of time for the whole process (and, as Tidgney mentioned, a way to balance different strategies when PD desires to).

 

[Famine]

I have no idea why you're buying into some complete nonsense marketing drivel

I'm not...

What does "TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology" do? I don't know; I can't say. Do you know?. That phrase doesn't appear to exist before the GT Sport announcement as far as I can tell. It may be marketing (but it'd be odd to say "hey we're doing this, also some marketing" if both things are marketing; not unheard of, but odd), it may not be. I have no idea. Do you?

Assuming it does nothing isn't a safe assumption. Neither is the opposite assumption, which is why I didn't make it. However, we cannot - not knowing what it does or doesn't do - exclude it from an explanation of what we see

 

[Meythia]

"TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology"

In unrequested support to your statement: just by saying it like this, PD implies whatever change in their game has happened additional to simply changing the branding. If there was no change, merely phrasing "TAG Heuer as the new brand to appear in the game" or similar what have been sufficient.
Maybe it simply happened to happen at the same time as the pitstop makeover, maybe it is related, but outside of the developers no one knows and speculations wont affect the results.

 

[Famine]

PD implies whatever change in their game has happened additional to simply changing the branding. If there was no change, merely phrasing "TAG Heuer as the new brand to appear in the game" or similar what have been sufficient.

Indeed - and the distinction does appear in both contemporary press releases, suggesting that TAG Heuer's general appearance in the game (race loading screen watch, trackside ads, entry in Brand Central and museum) and the "integration" of "TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology" are separate things. But, yes, it may still just be marketing guff (as I commented before).


As noted before, I've always found this interesting, especially in combination with the pit lane teleporting and (especially in the early days) the chaos on the live timing leaderboard when a car heads into the pits, and I've never seen an adequate explanation why GT was perfectly fine with live pit stops until GT Sport (even "some pit lanes are too tiny for 12/16/20 cars" can be solved with "ghosting") and what required this to change.

Hence (as originally stated) theory. It's not, nor is it meant to be taken as, a statement of fact.

 

[Ajax8]

100% a bug I just entered the pit nearly touching the bumper of the guy in front took about 20 seconds for the car to appear in the animation then when leaving the pit the guy in front who was only an inch in front of me was easily 10-20 seconds infront.

 

[Meythia]

a bug

Bugs require effort to be fixed and information when or how they occure.
Why not use the consoles recording feature to just do that?
Like for example

 

[TUSMBOX]

100% a bug I just entered the pit nearly touching the bumper of the guy in front took about 20 seconds for the car to appear in the animation then when leaving the pit the guy in front who was only an inch in front of me was easily 10-20 seconds infront.

Did the guy in front of you change tires or stay on the same set? Did they put in less fuel than you?

There are things than can make one pit stop shorter than another's.

 

[MineralBlurb7]

So there's been a few races I have done where I have had to pit for fuel.

Why does it take a solid 30 seconds between entering the pits and your car arriving at your crew for the stop? It destroys any lead/closing down you've done during the race.

Tried watching a replay to see what takes the car so long to arrive once auto drive takes charge, but even then it just cuts straight to the pit crew and you see them just standing there waiting.

Poor game design, that’s all. Not a bug.