PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[Luminis]

I'll keep this short for your sake.

What I'm trying to say is:
-If you sell your consoles on loss and create few games for it, trying to cover all genres, because you can't do them all, then you have to hope other producers give you good games, So you can have at least 2 or 3 good titles in all the genres.

Sony covers the sim racing genre to an extend. The game that does sells well. Since most sims don't sell well, there aren't more publishers flocking to the genre. Which has been explained, like, fice times already?

- What happen'd instead? Other producers built tons of fps saturating the fps market

Most recent 'big' FPS games have been selling remarkably well. Care to explain how those games keep selling well if the market was saturated?

and not good enough racing games. With the big fail of Shift 2 and the lack of GT5 features some PS3 users bought an X360 because of Forza, other went on PC's.

If the sim racing genre needed so many more games, how come that there is not a single sim-racing-esque game that sells as well as the best selling FPS games? Might that be due to the fact that the market for FPS games is bigger than the one for sim-racers? 💡

And when you have a 360 or PC's most of people don't buy only racing games. If you buy COD on 360 you don't buy COD on PS3, this is where Sony strategy failed.

What's Sony supposed to do, then? Third parties aren't going to rrelease exclusives with PS3 and the 360 being sold nearly equally well and I doubt that Sony is willing to develop a second GT-esque game. GT5 is a racing game and it's one of their system sellers. What's a second sim-racing game going to achieve?

- Selling hardware on loss and hoping partners like EA and Codemasters give you quality stuff has proved to be a risky strategy.

You're acting as if there wasn't Gran Turismo. Sony couldn't deliver what you were asking for with their attempt at GT5 and you think that creating another, similar games themselves is going to change that?

In case you're not well versed enough in the marketing department to know this, I'll give you a hint: Two very similar alternatives will compete for the same market if they can't differentiate themselves enough from each other.

And, to most buyers, that's not done with a few minor features. What Sony needs to do is release GT games sooner, with a shorter development cycle. Bi-anually or every three years. That'd help to cover the racing game market far better than creating a second franchise that can't be differentiating itself enough from Gran Turismo.

You see, that makes literally no sense whatsoever, because, if you haven't noticed, sim-racers like the ones you'll fiind on GTP are actually a rather rare breed. Something you have to come to terms with! That's why you're perceiving FPS games as carbon copy-BS when it's actually one of the biggest cash cows for various developers.

TL;DR version:

 

[Sanji Himura]

Luminis is right, however, I must point out that the reason why FPS sell very well is because it is formulaic to a point. You have a little to garbage single player campaign mode, and you heavily rely on a online mode to get the most replay value out of it. It then becomes a "pick your poison" for single player. This is why, I wasn't intending on starting on this war again, Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 got most of the FPS dollars last year. They were basically the same game on the fundamental level.

 

[tribolik]

Luminis is right, however, I must point out that the reason why FPS sell very well is because it is formulaic to a point. You have a little to garbage single player campaign mode, and you heavily rely on a online mode to get the most replay value out of it. It then becomes a "pick your poison" for single player. This is why, I wasn't intending on starting on this war again, Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 got most of the FPS dollars last year. They were basically the same game on the fundamental level.

You can argue that about racing games also...

 

[Luminis]

Well, most games in a given genre are very similar and only diffentiate themselves from each other by relatively minor details.

Racing games all follow the very similar formula of racing: Get X cars on a given course and the first one to reach the goal wins. That's the basic formula. The games are then differentiated by such details als levle of realism in terms of physics engine and the car selection, or rather the licenses that have been used. That's pretty similar to thhe different approaches different games take on the FPS genere.

I think people just have to get away from the "all FPS games are the same"-mindset. Because, to someone who doesn't car about racing games, NFS and GT are pretty miuch the same, as well.

 

[Sanji Himura]

But there are critical differences between NFS and GT that you, or anyone who will give those two games a second look. One, NFS is a arcade style racer with a focused plot. Granted, for the longest time, they held the Ferrari, Lambo and Porche exclusive licenses, but real cars do not a real simulator racer make. Two, I'm sad to say, Gran Turismo is a closer, but not a driving sim either. Now why did I say that? There have been five incarnations of the game so far, but it has been until the recent one that they have just introduced car damage. Other games in the genre have introduced that feature since before GT4, and Kaz has just gotten around to working on introducing that feature? And on only a fraction of the cars to boot?

 

[Luminis]

Yup, and just as you can point out a fistful of things that differentiateds Gran Turismo from need for Speed, I could point out differences between different FPS games. Take Crysis and Call of Duty, for example. They are both FPS games, but they are hardly any less different than, say, Gran Turismo and Need for Speed.

And that is why Sony needs to focus on what they need to sell consoles, which hardly means making more racing sims. What they need is strong third-party support, which could be rather hard to come by, given that they are in direct competition with Microsoft, anyways. Second, they need some hard-hitting first party games that move consoles, and Sony needs to get them ready close to release. From what we've seen so far, those first party games shouldn't be racing sims, outside of Gran Turismo (even though it's not a full-blown sim).

 

[sikbeta]

FPS genre this gen is abused because of the success of COD, now every Pub wants its own COD, most of them fail because simple COD came first at the perfect time and got all the FPS crowd for itself, BF is growing now because it's like the only real competition of COD, but the hundred of FPS games out there simply FAIL, THQ (Publisher) is about to go out of business for trying to copy that and chasing the same Crowd

Resistance born because of that, it could have been a powerful franchise in terms of sales, but the Devs screwed up and the 2nd failed, the 3rd one didn't have a chance

KZ2 is a flagship title, this one can sell 10m or 10k and it doesn't matter, Sony will push it because it's the franchise that showcase the powerful graphics (from SCEE), GT is beyond anything, that's why SCE let PD take their time with GT5, but guess next gen they'll presure to release asap or even at lauch of the new console, Kaz said GT6 will not take as much time as GT5

In every gen there is a genre that has more attention (more games) than others, in the PS1 days was the Platformers, in the PS2 days was, well PS2 was so big that anyone could make a crappy game and sell a lot in the days of the PS3 the FPS genre dominate but soon will go down and another genre will take its place

And Sony is really good when it comes to releasing games 👍

Uncharted is the new shiny franchise and the best of this gen coming from SCE, it was the best PS3 exclusive in 2007 and the sequel was GOTY in 2009, the third one had critics but it's one of the best games of 2011

GOW it's a killer franchise, another showcase of powerful graphics (from SCEA), only this franchise is guaranteed to sell loads of copies

SCEJ is the one lagging behind, although you can take PD as part of SCEJ, they're separate and actually make successful games

 

[ch3ng]

Sony did make two good exclusive racing games for the PS3 (without counting GT5P)
Well you can argue that GT5 isnt a racing game but a driving game.... But F1 CE is still one of the best racing experiences for the PS3 IMO.
And Im really enjoying Supercar Challenge and it now costs around 13 Euros on the PSN

A F1 Racing Game and a Racing SIM have different Target group.

- F1 Racer: Racing fans and F1 Racing Fans
- SIM Racer : Racer and Car Fans

And the F1 dont allow the F1 license in a Game like GT. They wanted exclusiv F1 only games.

Luminis tells the truth.

Mh i'm Not a Admin and i talked Off topic also, but i think we can Create a Thread if some people want. Because this is a ps4 Thread.

 

[Luminis]

In every gen there is a genre that has more attention (more games) than others, in the PS1 days was the Platformers, in the PS2 days was, well PS2 was so big that anyone could make a crappy game and sell a lot in the days of the PS3 the FPS genre dominate but soon will go down and another genre will take its place

Dunno. FPS games have been very popular on the PC for a huge while now. The original Half-Life was released in 1998 and I am under the impression that in those almost 15 years, shooters have become one of the most important pillars of the PC gaming world. Now, that consoles have started to adopt that, I have a feeling that the FPS genre is here to stay. For a while, at least.

That goes hand in hand with the change in the consoles' specific demographic, obviously. The PS1 and consoles prior to it were seen much more as toys compared to the current consoles. Today's system have, I feel, a much older target audience (which is also reflected by the pricing policies of Sony and MS, for example). Hence, it's only logical that platformers have become less important whereas FPS games have become best sellers.

If you look at Sony's line-up, they're actually trying to cover the FPS market themselves, but they largely fail to do it with the same success as MS. Halo and Gears of War are out-selling every single one of Sony's first party games, as well as every other PS exclusive.

It's actually the same, in my opinion, as with Gran Turismo, Sony has to get its act together and release the games on time and with sufficient quality. But: Covering the FPS market should have first priority. The importance of ding so is reflecred by how well MS's exclusive shooters are selling. The one thing that I perceive as a huge issue, though, is what will happen when the average CoD-player realises that CoD looks better on the Durango than on the Orbis. If the rumoured hardware specifications are anything to go by, obviously.

While researching this, though, I found out that the best selling Xbox-game is actually Kinect Adventures, even outselling Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 by a rough three million copies. It seems that Kinect is actually doing its thing for MS, whereas Sony is lacking something comparable.

This needs to change for the upcoming generation, I would guess. Not challenging MS obn that Market (and thereby also cutting into Nintendo's market share) seems downright moronic. Those casual games and the FPS market, that seems, as far as the general market goes, to be where the money is.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I don't know, but I would have bought the move for Sorcery, but the lack of information from Sony and the game's developer has really got me disinterested.

The point is that Sony could have potential blockbusters with the Playstation Move, if they are willing to develop games that support them, and not named LittleBigPlanet3. All Sony wants to do these days is to support the Vita.

 

[Luminis]

That is my impression also. They seem to be passing up a lot of great opportunities to position themselves a bit better in the market. And, personally, I don't quite udnerstand the reasoning behind that.

 

[sikbeta]

That is my impression also. They seem to be passing up a lot of great opportunities to position themselves a bit better in the market. And, personally, I don't quite udnerstand the reasoning behind that.

They're slow as **** to be honest, Sorcery was shown in 2010? 2 years with nothing and people will just move on, it doesn't surprise me though, when it comes to add-ons/peripheral Sony just release them and never care about supporting them, the PS2 Eye-Toy could have been the Kinect of last gen

 

[lemansfanatic]

I posted a link to some hard sony data about 6 pages back. since then its been all asterisks and puffery. what a bore. snooze. i'll check back in when people have actual news.

 

[wicken]

One thing for sure, this maintenances that happen on PS3 need to stop in the next gen consoles.

 

[Caz]

One thing for sure, this maintenances that happen on PS3 need to stop in the next gen consoles.

Had a response types but deleted it after reading it. It. Sounded harsher than I meant it to.
My only question is Why don't you want maintenance on the next Gen?

 

[ASH32]

One thing for sure, this maintenances that happen on PS3 need to stop in the next gen consoles.

It won't, expect at least the same amount as now, maybe more depending on what services they offer in the future.

 

[amf7]

Had a response types but deleted it after reading it. It. Sounded harsher than I meant it to.
My only question is Why don't you want maintenance on the next Gen?

I think he's. Referring to the day we can't go on in every month or so. Xbox never has this trouble. I imagine it's not so bad in America but it always happens in evenings in Europe

 

[Spagetti69]

That's why it's free though. You can't complain about an unstable service if it's free.

 

[amf7]

That's why it's free though. You can't complain about an unstable service if it's free.

I agree. 👍

I personally don't mind as generally I can get on.

 

[CMvan46]

That's why it's free though. You can't complain about an unstable service if it's free.

Well you can. When I went out to buy a PS3 over an Xbox one of my desicions to do so was because of the free online service. I paid more for the PS3 because of it.

 

[occasionalracer]

Luminis, although I agree with most of you points, I don't know why you fail to see the HUGE impact of GT as a "semi-sim" has had, and will undoubtedly retain for round 6, hopefully releasing early in the life of the Orbis.

That goes hand in hand with the change in the consoles' specific demographic, obviously. The PS1 and consoles prior to it were seen much more as toys compared to the current consoles. Today's system have, I feel, a much older target audience (which is also reflected by the pricing policies of Sony and MS, for example). Hence, it's only logical that platformers have become less important whereas FPS games have become best sellers.

So looking at the fact that the average "console gamer" is now maybe around 20 years of age, in comparison to PS2 days where I'd estimate about 15, and then further back in the 90's mainly younger kids, it's super important because the majority of potential customers of the Orbis will have some type of connection to driving in the real world...
to me this translates to absolute certain mass sales when the system releases.

I don't think it would be an understatement that 30-40% of those in the market to purchase one of the next consoles, will purchase either Forza or GT as an obligatory part of their game collection. Of course maybe 10% of these people are actually true "sim racers" as most of us on here on GTPlanet, the rest are those who buy these "sims" for the same reason any racing game exists... to have fun.

Now if I'm allowed to make a rough estimation here on the 7.5 mil. copies of GT5 pushed, my guesstimate would be that at least 1 mil. of these people are actually "true enthusiast" of racing (as in, understanding physics and being realistic about proper racing)... the rest, well are mostly people/kids who like cars and driving fast but never give it more effort and determination to become a well rounded and accurate driver. If PD could release some statistics about online play, we could get a better idea this.

Anyways, what I'm trying to get at is what a major role the GT series can have on the sales of the Orbis console, with my estimate of 1 mil. true fans that WILL want to get the Orbis with the arrival of the next GT.

I have no doubt that PD is working their buttox off, not only to provide a stunning graphical experience and content packed GT6, but to include a highly revised physics engine to be at least on par with say, iRacing....

You talk about the "hardcore sim-racer" market being very tiny, you're right, but only because they require an expensive PC, and frankly they are not very user friendly and don't connect with people as much as the vehicels/tracks in GT/ Forza. Now given the fact Gran Turismo has been dubbed a "semi-sim" around the forums (and rightly so), there is no reason why the same game, with a much more indepth physics engine equaling "true sims", would take anything away from the success GT has always been for Playstion.

If PD were to achieve a super high standard in the physics simulation department, the word will spread faster than Kimi Raikkonnen lost 12 positions in Shanghi (for those watched the F1 race on the weekend). This does not take away from the fun-factor for those kicking back on a couch with a controller either, the wonderful content and graphics are still there.

Unfortunatly, it's major speculation on my part with these improvements, but I totally believe the huge amount of dissapointment (mostly physics/online related) has been weighing heavy on Kaz's soul, even though he has brought us an amazing piece of artwork that he can be proud of, but the "The Real Driving Simulator" slogan still needs to brought to life. With the amount of public sponsorship/ advertising deals they have created in the Motorsport scene, the partnerships with several Auto manufacturers and of course the whole GT Acadamy, there's massive pressure on PD to deliver a solid driving simulator.

Now as long as they can pull this off, Orbis' will be flying off the shelves around the world, the question of course is... how will it stack up against Forza when the time comes? My guess, as opposed to yours Luminis, TREMENDOUSLY WELL... GT has a lot more going for itself.

 

[Luminis]

Luminis, although I agree with most of you points, I don't know why you fail to see the HUGE impact of GT as a "semi-sim" has had, and will undoubtedly retain for round 6, hopefully releasing early in the life of the Orbis.

I don't fail to see the impact. I know that the game is a system seller and has been for a long while. A system seller has a lot less merrit, though, when the first full release happens about four years after the console launched. The problem isn't that Gran Turismo doesn't have much impact, the problem is that it's just plain stupid on Siny's part to not abuse it more.

That's the first thing, and the second things is that you probably misunderstood me, anyways. The point isn't that sims will never be able to move consoles, the point is that Sony does habe its prime simulator, which is Gran Turismo. Getting another one out there isn't going to accomplish as much. The simple fact is that, no matter how big GT is, a good FPS game is, in the current market, bigger. If you want proof, look at Halo, for example.

I'm not denying that GT is making Sony lots and lots of money. I am thinking that they can hardly use it to get a leg up on Microsoft of if its released four years into the generation, again.

So looking at the fact that the average "console gamer" is now maybe around 20 years of age, in comparison to PS2 days where I'd estimate about 15, and then further back in the 90's mainly younger kids, it's super important because the majority of potential customers of the Orbis will have some type of connection to driving in the real world...
to me this translates to absolute certain mass sales when the system releases.

Did you bother too check how the sales of GT developed? In case you haven't:

1. GT3: 14.88 million copies sold.
2. GT4:11.36 million copies sold.
3. GT1: 11.15 million copies sold.
4. GT2: 9.36 million copies sold.
5. GT5: 7.41 million copies sold.

If your theory was correct, we'd see GT's sales increase as the audience gets older. It doesn't. And while I agree that an older demographic is more likely to have first-hand drivingg experience, I disagree that this will in any shape or form translate to how many people are going to buy a console racer.

Anyways, what I'm trying to get at is what a major role the GT series can have on the sales of the Orbis console, with my estimate of 1 mil. true fans that WILL want to get the Orbis with the arrival of the next GT.

I'd say that there are actually more people who are loyal GT5 fans. Because, frankly, I doubt that being an enthusiast sim racer is intrinsically tied to being a GT fan. I'd actually say that those who are truely dedicated sim racers are more at home on the PC, anyways.

But, the point is: Sony gets some of those 7.5 million GT buyers again. Microsoft, on the other hand, is going to get somewhere around the same percentage of the 11.5 million Halo buyers out there. And while I get that, on a website like GTPlanet, most people will have a bias for racing games and especially GT5, it should be obvious that there are games that have more impact than GT5 does. And, most importantly, and that has been the main point of my argument, that GT does what it does not because the racing sim market is this profitable, but because it is GT and comes with the GT badge on the cover.

I have no doubt that PD is working their buttox off, not only to provide a stunning graphical experience and content packed GT6, but to include a highly revised physics engine to be at least on par with say, iRacing....

Who'll care about iRacing, and an iRacing-like physics engine in 2015, though? More importantly, by that time, the next generation "console war" might already be over.

You talk about the "hardcore sim-racer" market being very tiny, you're right, but only because they require an expensive PC

Race Pro didn't. It was on the 360. GTR didn't. It was on the 360. Both games are far more of a sim than GT5 and/or Forza, and both sold next to nothing. So, no, it's not only due to being on PC.

, and frankly they are not very user friendly and don't connect with people as much as the vehicels/tracks in GT/ Forza.

They don't connect with the people? What?

Now given the fact Gran Turismo has been dubbed a "semi-sim" around the forums (and rightly so), there is no reason why the same game, with a much more indepth physics engine equaling "true sims", would take anything away from the success GT has always been for Playstion.

Sigh... For the umpteenth time: You could probably slap the most realistic or the most arcady physics engine ever onto GT5 and I'd say that it would hardly impact its quality as a system seller. GT is, in that regard, the Call of Duty of racing games. Sadly, as it gives PD the freedom to do whatever whithout getting a bloody nose when they do bad, but that's a different topic alltogether. The thing is: You're not going to sell many more Orbits by creating another sim racing franchise, or another racing game in general. The market is quite well catered for, with GT5 as well as the "crappy" games that cater to target audiences that GT5 doesn't cater to. Going with the biggest market, right now, is a much safer bet and will get more consoles sold than that. That's the whole point.

I wouldn't dream of saying that Sony should drop Gran Turismo. They just shouldn't make a carbon copy of GT, as some other members have suggested. If you are going to try and profit from a market that's already close to saturation, go with the biggest one.

If PD were to achieve a super high standard in the physics simulation department, the word will spread faster than Kimi Raikkonnen lost 12 positions in Shanghi (for those watched the F1 race on the weekend). This does not take away from the fun-factor for those kicking back on a couch with a controller either, the wonderful content and graphics are still there.

As if your average Joe actually gave a damn about how realistic the game is...

Unfortunatly, it's major speculation on my part with these improvements, but I totally believe the huge amount of dissapointment (mostly physics/online related) has been weighing heavy on Kaz's soul, even though he has brought us an amazing piece of artwork that he can be proud of, but the "The Real Driving Simulator" slogan still needs to brought to life. With the amount of public sponsorship/ advertising deals they have created in the Motorsport scene, the partnerships with several Auto manufacturers and of course the whole GT Acadamy, there's massive pressure on PD to deliver a solid driving simulator.

As well as massive distraction. But, as I have pointed out earlier: GT is popular. That's why it's a system seller. It doesn't habe to be very realistic or even very good to do that. PD could release GT6 in a state that's even more unfinished than GT5 was, and it would probably still sell 5+ million copies.

Now as long as they can pull this off, Orbis' will be flying off the shelves around the world, the question of course is... how will it stack up against Forza when the time comes? My guess, as opposed to yours Luminis, TREMENDOUSLY WELL... GT has a lot more going for itself.

Will GT6 outsell a given Forza game? Definitely. Will it move many Orbits? Not if it, like GT5, releases four years into the generation. Not if, by that time, MS have shown that the Durango comes with more powerful hardware. And especially not if MS was clever enough to abuse franchises like Gears of War and Halo to draw in more potential customers than GT ever could. Factor in that MS actually took notice of trends like interactive gaming and pushed out Kinect in time, and you'll understand my point:

It's nice to have GT5, but that's just not good enough if something like Kinect Adventures sells about as many copies as GT5, GT5rologue and Metal Gear Solid 4 combined. Also, don't get me wrong: I wasn't very satisfied with Sony during this generation, but I am not gleeful or happy to seem them in the sorry state that they are in. Microsoft dominating the market with the Durango like Sony did with the PS2 isn't what I want to see. Because, well, it might lead to the successor of the Durango going downhill as much as the PS3 went downhill compared to the PS2.

 

[Alex p.]

Luminis, although I agree with most of you points, I don't know why you fail to see the HUGE impact of GT as a "semi-sim" has had, and will undoubtedly retain for round 6, hopefully releasing early in the life of the Orbis.



So looking at the fact that the average "console gamer" is now maybe around 20 years of age, in comparison to PS2 days where I'd estimate about 15, and then further back in the 90's mainly younger kids, it's super important because the majority of potential customers of the Orbis will have some type of connection to driving in the real world...
to me this translates to absolute certain mass sales when the system releases.

I don't think it would be an understatement that 30-40% of those in the market to purchase one of the next consoles, will purchase either Forza or GT as an obligatory part of their game collection. Of course maybe 10% of these people are actually true "sim racers" as most of us on here on GTPlanet, the rest are those who buy these "sims" for the same reason any racing game exists... to have fun.

Now if I'm allowed to make a rough estimation here on the 7.5 mil. copies of GT5 pushed, my guesstimate would be that at least 1 mil. of these people are actually "true enthusiast" of racing (as in, understanding physics and being realistic about proper racing)... the rest, well are mostly people/kids who like cars and driving fast but never give it more effort and determination to become a well rounded and accurate driver. If PD could release some statistics about online play, we could get a better idea this.

Anyways, what I'm trying to get at is what a major role the GT series can have on the sales of the Orbis console, with my estimate of 1 mil. true fans that WILL want to get the Orbis with the arrival of the next GT.

I have no doubt that PD is working their buttox off, not only to provide a stunning graphical experience and content packed GT6, but to include a highly revised physics engine to be at least on par with say, iRacing....

You talk about the "hardcore sim-racer" market being very tiny, you're right, but only because they require an expensive PC, and frankly they are not very user friendly and don't connect with people as much as the vehicels/tracks in GT/ Forza. Now given the fact Gran Turismo has been dubbed a "semi-sim" around the forums (and rightly so), there is no reason why the same game, with a much more indepth physics engine equaling "true sims", would take anything away from the success GT has always been for Playstion.

If PD were to achieve a super high standard in the physics simulation department, the word will spread faster than Kimi Raikkonnen lost 12 positions in Shanghi (for those watched the F1 race on the weekend). This does not take away from the fun-factor for those kicking back on a couch with a controller either, the wonderful content and graphics are still there.

Unfortunatly, it's major speculation on my part with these improvements, but I totally believe the huge amount of dissapointment (mostly physics/online related) has been weighing heavy on Kaz's soul, even though he has brought us an amazing piece of artwork that he can be proud of, but the "The Real Driving Simulator" slogan still needs to brought to life. With the amount of public sponsorship/ advertising deals they have created in the Motorsport scene, the partnerships with several Auto manufacturers and of course the whole GT Acadamy, there's massive pressure on PD to deliver a solid driving simulator.

Now as long as they can pull this off, Orbis' will be flying off the shelves around the world, the question of course is... how will it stack up against Forza when the time comes? My guess, as opposed to yours Luminis, TREMENDOUSLY WELL... GT has a lot more going for itself.

Quality post. 👍

Agree on everything said. Can we expect PD to release a GT on release day?

Hell to the crap no!

 

[Spagetti69]

Anyone who Pre purchases an Orbit on the promise that GT is coming soon needs treatment.
Im Addressing the "I bought a PS3 on release just for this game" crowd.

 

[Luminis]

Won't happen twice...

 

[Alex p.]

Won't happen twice...

This.

 

[bermudakid]

Won't happen twice...

I said "fool me once"

 

[tribolik]

1. GT3: 14.88 million copies sold.
2. GT4:11.36 million copies sold.
3. GT1: 11.15 million copies sold.
4. GT2: 9.36 million copies sold.
5. GT5: 7.41 million copies sold.

I think your missing something there...

GT1: 11.15 million copies sold.
GT2: 9.36 million copies sold.
GT3: 14.88 million copies sold.
GT4: 11.36 million copies sold. GT4prologue: 1.51 million copies sold - 12.87 million total copies sold
GT5: 7.41 million copies sold. GT5prologue: 4.09 million copies sold - 11.50 million total copies sold and still selling

and if you count the fact that Forza has been around since 2005 (after GT4 was released) I think they are doing pretty good and maintaining sales more or less with an average of 12 million games sold per release wich by coincindence is the total of all Forza games sold.

 

[sikbeta]

Anyone who Pre purchases an Orbit on the promise that GT is coming soon needs treatment.
Im Addressing the "I bought a PS3 on release just for this game" crowd.

It's not like the only crowd that bought a PS3 at launch was the GT players, heck, there were people that bought a PS3 to get a JRPG that came out in 2010 :/

People buy consoles because they know more or less what to expect, plus the new games that will show up

The coolest thing about PlayStation is that there are always new games every gen, I played Crash in the PSX, Jax in PS2 and Uncharted in the PS3 and all those games are made by the same Studio, it's not only about buying Y console next gen to get the sequel of an X game

So looking at the fact that the average "console gamer" is now maybe around 20 years of age, in comparison to PS2 days where I'd estimate about 15, and then further back in the 90's mainly younger kids, it's super important because the majority of potential customers of the Orbis will have some type of connection to driving in the real world...
to me this translates to absolute certain mass sales when the system releases.

15 to 20 something and up is the average age Sony aims with their consoles, more teen/mature games than rated E like in some other console cough....cough...

1. GT3: 14.88 million copies sold.
2. GT4:11.36 million copies sold.
3. GT1: 11.15 million copies sold.
4. GT2: 9.36 million copies sold.
5. GT5: 7.41 million copies sold.

I know what it looks like, but I'm sure it's not what most people think, I don't think GT series is losing ground

1. GT3: 14.88 million copies sold. -> This one came at the right time = less than a year after PS2 launch and it's one of the biggest system sellers of that Console

2. GT4: 11.36 million copies sold. -> This one was late to the party but came out when there were 100m PS2 out there, it sold by itself

3. GT1: 11.15 million copies sold. -> This one is the best seller PS1 game

4. GT2: 9.36 million copies sold. -> This one was late to party a year before the release of PS2, same situation as GT4

5.GT5: 7.41 million copies sold. -> This one came out 5 years after PS3 launch and 3 years after GT5P was released and the price barrier didn't 't help it, knowing the PS3 it's still the more expensive console out there, I'm sure if it was $199 at GT5 launch time, It'd have broken sales records, but that's just me

 

[Earth]

1. GT3: 14.88 million copies sold. -> This one came at the right time = less than a year after PS2 launch and it's one of the biggest system sellers of that Console

2. GT4: 11.36 million copies sold. -> This one was late to the party but came out when there were 100m PS2 out there, it sold by itself

3. GT1: 11.15 million copies sold. -> This one is the best seller PS1 game

4. GT2: 9.36 million copies sold. -> This one was late to party a year before the release of PS2, same situation as GT4

5.GT5: 7.41 million copies sold. -> This one came out 5 years after PS3 launch and 3 years after GT5P was released and the price barrier didn't 't help it, knowing the PS3 it's still the more expensive console out there, I'm sure if it was $199 at GT5 launch time, It'd have broken sales records, but that's just me

Good points and I agree

Heres hoping that Gran Turismo 6 is a Playstation 4/Orbis launch title. All GT6 really needs to be is GT5 but without the graphical bugs, with better driving, crash and damage physics. And more/better race championships/events.

The hardware of the PS4 should make all of that easily possible.

A launch Gran Turismo 6 would probably sell as many copies as consoles