PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4

[ussr]

There are many websites specializing in exchanging games between people. Just buy the property one two games and exchange with other players for cos of shipping.

I did that for many months with PS2 when it was current console. If second hand games would not be let's say playable on other consoles then many of those web sites will be loosing good game swappers

 

[Luminis]

I can eventually understand a 5 or 10 euro "online pass", I do not like it (in fact I'm buying only non online pass games) but I understand it could make sense for the publisher.

Oh, DRM does make sense from the publisher's point of view, I reckon. Stifle everything that cuts into their revenue - or that's the idea, at least.

I wonder, though, how long it takes until DRM becomes so unbearable that it backfires. Hell, I still remember a copy of Windows Vista crashing so often on my PC that I ran out of "allowed installations". That copy, which came with the laptop, became useless, unless, of course, I was willing to spend 'a few bucks' (according to MS's support) to unlock it again. Honesrtly, it's a double edged sword. It works when you can get loads of games for cheap. Steam, for example. But dealing with all that crap when you're shelling out seventy bucks for a game? I wonder how long it takes until stuff like that bites publishers in the butt.

Developers will most likely do re-releases / remakes though which shouldn't be hard to do and means more money for them.

It's a big trend, to say the least. The amount of "HD Collections" is increasing - I'd think that console developers wouldn't want to miss such easy money.

 

[HKS racer]

Oh those games would have to be like half price of current games for ps3, then yes. If price is not like that then Ill seriously consider selling mine ps3's and build my self gaming PC

I have the feeling they'll keep the 69,90 / 59,90 euro full price for D1 releases. So far 6 people voted no, 2 people yes.

@Luminis 100% agree. Sony/Microsoft home consoles also must deal with mobile gaming market which is increasing everyday, people is changing their habits, a traditional console is no longer a "must have" for a 14yo kid. A smartphone is.
And they must deal with Steam store expecially if they'll try to semplify things. I've heard Steam on TV screens.

 

[Mulan]

I hope all kind of second hand gameselling ends. Everything should be online with ps4. Will be better for all players and push the developers harder.

 

[Tornado]

Yes. Giving publishers a de facto monopoly on how they can charge for and distribute games, completely eliminating consumers' rights in the process will certainly be better for all players.

 

[motoraza]

I hope all kind of second hand gameselling ends. Everything should be online with ps4. Will be better for all players and push the developers harder.

Really? Have you seen the prices on the PS / Xbox live store? I do not want to be paying those kind of prices, it's silly! It costs more than a hard copy without any material costs.

 

[Scaff]

I hope all kind of second hand gameselling ends. Everything should be online with ps4. Will be better for all players and push the developers harder.

And that would be better for players how exactly?

Not to mention its going to be far from good for all the 'players' who work in gaming retail outlets, most of which will very quickly go to the wall if second hand games are killed off.

As for only being able to buy titles on-line, have you seen how much more expensive main title releases are on download? BO2 in the shops is around £42 on the PS3 store its £60, which would make it almost £18 better for us gamers (ohh no wait that would be bad).

 

[Mulan]

Ok, a bit missunderstanding. I want still games to be sold in stores, but not in secondhand stores. One buy and then you need onlinepass to play at all. Once activated its on your onlineaccount (think like Applestore or Steam).
Why good if i think the way i think:

1: Download and play the game as on steam or appstore, or in this case PS4 as long as its connected to the account. No more bound to physical media, go to your friend login and play the games you have.
Better than demos and if friends like it too then they will buy it. Great marketing and great freedom for players.
2: Publishers get full controll of games and how they sell. I bet they can put games for free too if they want, dont see retailers want to give away free games. And since they have no need of thinking how it effects retailers they can actually do as they want to promote their game.(indie games...but in future all games when internet evolves even more).

3: If its a free marketspace it will be perhaps even harder to sell your game if its nt popular or exposed. Once again, if the market works (which it will if we erase all secondhand margin and second hand market losses) the profit can go straight to the buyer.
4: One stop shop, if a game doesnt work you will see the score of the game. If its done right even publisher can put fast info on the page adressing problems. If not, bye bye, this is how it can push developers. Today, stores buy their games and then its done. The stores take the loss if a game is lousy. They(developers/publishers) have sold the game to the stores/retailers and can care less. Online, no more selling if game is lousy.
5: Latest game version all the time you buy.
6: Developers have more info how many play the game and have access (if you want) to their customers. Making special offerings is easier.

Well...just some points. But as i say i was a bit fast. I still want games to be sold offline but must have internetaccess to be used. This simply because games can be a bit large and internet isnt that developed yet.
But i belive if they push for this it will also push development for faster internet (like Netflix, HBO does too). It will be a win win for consumer and developer...middlehands will have trouble.

Oh, and above all...i hate physical media. I love that music is online, movies online...time for games to be online too! Dont hear anyone complaining about spotify.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Killzone 4 rumor is now trending on twitter (That it will get released as a launch title this year for the PS4 ,Must not fall for hype

and IGN reckons GT6 is will feature on the 20th http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/07/playstation-4s-reveal-will-we-see-games

I also read that! I hope it's true!

 

[thelvynau]

Ok, a bit missunderstanding. I want still games to be sold in stores, but not in secondhand stores. One buy and then you need onlinepass to play at all. Once activated its on your onlineaccount (think like Applestore or Steam).
Why good if i think the way i think:

1: Download and play the game as on steam or appstore, or in this case PS4 as long as its connected to the account. No more bound to physical media, go to your friend login and play the games you have.
Better than demos and if friends like it too then they will buy it. Great marketing and great freedom for players.
2: Publishers get full controll of games and how they sell. I bet they can put games for free too if they want, dont see retailers want to give away free games. And since they have no need of thinking how it effects retailers they can actually do as they want to promote their game.(indie games...but in future all games when internet evolves even more).

3: If its a free marketspace it will be perhaps even harder to sell your game if its nt popular or exposed. Once again, if the market works (which it will if we erase all secondhand margin and second hand market losses) the profit can go straight to the buyer.
4: One stop shop, if a game doesnt work you will see the score of the game. If its done right even publisher can put fast info on the page adressing problems. If not, bye bye, this is how it can push developers. Today, stores buy their games and then its done. The stores take the loss if a game is lousy. They(developers/publishers) have sold the game to the stores/retailers and can care less. Online, no more selling if game is lousy.
5: Latest game version all the time you buy.
6: Developers have more info how many play the game and have access (if you want) to their customers. Making special offerings is easier.

Well...just some points. But as i say i was a bit fast. I still want games to be sold offline but must have internetaccess to be used. This simply because games can be a bit large and internet isnt that developed yet.
But i belive if they push for this it will also push development for faster internet (like Netflix, HBO does too). It will be a win win for consumer and developer...middlehands will have trouble.

Oh, and above all...i hate physical media. I love that music is online, movies online...time for games to be online too! Dont hear anyone complaining about spotify.

It sounds like your solution is to kill the used game market.

All I think of this will kill prices for games and allow y he developer to charge more.

No thanks

 

[Crispy]

So what is stopping a publisher by making their game $100?

Why should I be forced to buy an online pass if my friend gives me his game after he is finished playing with it? What if I don't have 60 bucks to pay for a game at launch, so I wait until it's forty, then buy the game? Online passes are only good for the publisher/developer. They do no good to businesses like GameStop, or to players like you and me.

 

[Mulan]

So what is stopping a publisher by making their game $100?

Why should I be forced to buy an online pass if my friend gives me his game after he is finished playing with it? What if I don't have 60 bucks to pay for a game at launch, so I wait until it's forty, then buy the game? Online passes are only good for the publisher/developer. They do no good to businesses like GameStop, or to players like you and me.

I dont think this is true. Think of it. Its a long chain till the game is at your local store and all want a bit of the cake.
If developers get more money they can do better games and support games longer. Easy as that. Still they will need a marketplace, this is where PS4 comes in. Closed enviroment, payment methods fully established and there is confidence from consumers. Sony will get something of this but it still is easier to controll sales. And what is better, it doesnt bind capital like it does in stores. If the game doesnt sale they have to sell out and this costs too. retailers want either good margin or ensurances that if it doesnt sell they need marketingmoney for the risk they take and the space they allow in their stores.
In the long run it will be better and other developers get better chance getting out games. As i said, music and movies and other software is at this point, games is natural to follow.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I dont think this is true. Think of it. Its a long chain till the game is at your local store and all want a bit of the cake.
If developers get more money they can do better games and support games longer. Easy as that. Still they will need a marketplace, this is where PS4 comes in. Closed enviroment, payment methods fully established and there is confidence from consumers. Sony will get something of this but it still is easier to controll sales. And what is better, it doesnt bind capital like it does in stores. If the game doesnt sale they have to sell out and this costs too. retailers want either good margin or ensurances that if it doesnt sell they need marketingmoney for the risk they take and the space they allow in their stores.
In the long run it will be better and other developers get better chance getting out games. As i said, music and movies and other software is at this point, games is natural to follow.

Yeah I mean look at Call Of Duty,the yearly innovation is mind blowing

 

[thelvynau]

I dont think this is true. Think of it. Its a long chain till the game is at your local store and all want a bit of the cake.
If developers get more money they can do better games and support games longer. Easy as that. Still they will need a marketplace, this is where PS4 comes in. Closed enviroment, payment methods fully established and there is confidence from consumers. Sony will get something of this but it still is easier to controll sales. And what is better, it doesnt bind capital like it does in stores. If the game doesnt sale they have to sell out and this costs too. retailers want either good margin or ensurances that if it doesnt sell they need marketingmoney for the risk they take and the space they allow in their stores.
In the long run it will be better and other developers get better chance getting out games. As i said, music and movies and other software is at this point, games is natural to follow.

You still didnt answer his question. What if he cant afford the game and his friend wants to give it to him because he is done with it your way negates this.

Also rentals I like to try a game from the video store before I buy and this negates that.

Before you mention online demos I have found alot of demos are different from the final product so thats a no I go for me.

Only way could be full version demo time which can work but because of my first point your idea will shoot alot of people down.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

I like to swap games with my friend's...

 

[Mulan]

You still didnt answer his question. What if he cant afford the game and his friend wants to give it to him because he is done with it your way negates this.

Also rentals I like to try a game from the video store before I buy and this negates that.

Before you mention online demos I have found alot of demos are different from the final product so thats a no I go for me.

Only way could be full version demo time which can work but because of my first point your idea will shoot alot of people down.

Don't understand this. So if someone cant play games for free all others should suffer? I feel the opposite. This gives way for cheaper games.
And as i said, physical discs will be needed a while longer but as i see it its just a way of getting the game. Another is skipping physical discs and have all online (if your connection allows). Everyone can download the games but to play full version you need onlinepass. If its done like PS+, as long as you have yearly subscription you have the free games + lots of other offerings or one buy and you always have the game. Want to try it out? Well if im your friend i can come over to you, login with my pass and you can play it too. I hope and belive PS4 will be better at giving the right platform for this.

 

[thelvynau]

Don't understand this. So if someone cant play games for free all others should suffer? I feel the opposite. This gives way for cheaper games.
And as i said, physical discs will be needed a while longer but as i see it its just a way of getting the game. Another is skipping physical discs and have all online (if your connection allows). Everyone can download the games but to play full version you need onlinepass. If its done like PS+, as long as you have yearly subscription you have the free games + lots of other offerings or one buy and you always have the game. Want to try it out? Well if im your friend i can come over to you, login with my pass and you can play it too. I hope and belive PS4 will be better at giving the right platform for this.

What your suggesting might upset some people especially when we want to lend games to friends.

The developers need to realise that there is more I than justca simple case of 1 game 1 user people like to swap games to borrow and from what your saying it will restrict the machine it can be used for which negates all of this.

Lending games to friends and renting games is a huge part of being gamers if they take that away then its another step towards destroying the games market.

Bottom line if they think they can get away with this then they will know they can get away with a large price.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Poll, or sort of:

How many of you will buy PS4 if it's no longer possible using 2nd market games?

Assuming the PS4 will be similar to the PS3 in that I can upgrade the hard drive capacity on my own, with something like a 1TB 2.5" SSD, then I'd still buy it 👍

I don't share games really, nor do I buy 2nd hand. Mostly because I know the profit margins Game$top gets and I refuse to encourage them ripping off us gamers like that. Otherwise, at home I've got a full GB LAN and 15/15 FIOS so I'm all for all digital content


Jerome

 

[Mulan]

What your suggesting might upset some people especially when we want to lend games to friends.

The developers need to realise that there is more I than justca simple case of 1 game 1 user people like to swap games to borrow and from what your saying it will restrict the machine it can be used for which negates all of this.

Lending games to friends and renting games is a huge part of being gamers if they take that away then its another step towards destroying the games market.

Bottom line if they think they can get away with this then they will know they can get away with a large price.

I get this, but at some point things need to evolve. I do belive the PS4 and if Xbox720 does the same is a good time to do it. It will be up to all to buy the console or not. Noone is pushed that already owns one like if they did this on the PS3. I still am not sure this will be the case, but as i said earlier, there are many reasons why i want it to be so.

And renting, yes there is a market for this depending on the type of game. But if it is online game then there is no need to rent. Just download, pay a monthly fee and play. Dont like it, stop your account.

By the way, retailers can still earn money throuh giftcardsselling. Itunes, Facebook and PS+ is already out. More coming. So it is still possible to buy "offline".

The ones that will have trouble is the middlehands not the end users. Middlehands need to make profits too and you pay for that either you rent, buy/sell second hand and so on.

 

[thelvynau]

I get this, but at some point things need to evolve. I do belive the PS4 and if Xbox720 does the same is a good time to do it. It will be free for all to buy the console or not. Noone is pushed that already owns one like if they did this on the PS3. I still am not sure this will be the case, but as i said earlier, there are many reasons why i want it to be so.

And renting, yes there is a market for this depending on the type of game. But if it is online game then there is no need to rent. Just download, pay a monthly fee and play. Dont like it, stop your account.

By the way, retailers can still earn money throuh giftcardsselling. Itunes, Facebook and PS+ is already out. More coming. So it is still possible to buy "offline".

I do see your points really I do but to implement this without thinking there will be alot of negative impacts means it hasnt been completely thought through.

I will agree it will need to evolve I have gotten that atleast from your posts but I believe a full blown change very quickly isnt the way to implement it.

If Sony do away with 2nd hand games the retailers could band together and refuse to sell the console hurting sonys profits.

Now im not saying it will happen just food for thought.

 

[LaBounti]

Poll, or sort of:

How many of you will buy PS4 if it's no longer possible using 2nd market games?

It won't effect game sales one bit.... I mean someone has to buy it new in the first place and Sony does not care for those who buy the system(loss profit) but not new games(lost profit)....

It won't affect me. Sony needs to extend game trials beyond PS+ users so all games can be sampled by anyone. But 60mins is too short. I didn't get anywhere in Two Worlds 2 before my time was up..

If Sony do away with 2nd hand games the retailers could band together and refuse to sell the console hurting sonys profits.

Now im not saying it will happen just food for thought.

Why would the retailers do this? To lose their own profits? Major retailers have always sold new games.

 

[Mulan]

I do see your points really I do but to implement this without thinking there will be alot of negative impacts means it hasnt been completely thought through.

I will agree it will need to evolve I have gotten that atleast from your posts but I believe a full blown change very quickly isnt the way to implement it.

If Sony do away with 2nd hand games the retailers could band together and refuse to sell the console hurting sonys profits.

Now im not saying it will happen just food for thought.

Yes, but think apple, retailers get 0 from what is sold inside the apple store and itunes. Still they sell the hardware with little profit or no profit and even after Apple has opened own stores. If people like the concept and buy the hardware there will be no problem at all. retailers can earn on hardware, giftcards and accessories and having product that draws customers and possibility to sell other stuff and perhaps convert them to other console (if there is more profit there). I can see the salesperson, nooo PS4 and GT6 is so unrealistic. Forza is much better on the new Xbox720.

 

[Mulan]

It won't effect game sales one bit.... I mean someone has to buy it new in the first place and Sony does not care for those who buy the system(loss profit) but not new games(lost profit)....

It won't affect me. Sony needs to get extend game trials beyond PS+ users so all games can be sampled by anyone. But 60mins is too short. I didn't get anywhere in Two Worlds 2 before my time was up..

Youtube

I agree, better with limited access to stages, tracks, options but free time rather than a game with timelimit.

 

[thelvynau]

It won't effect game sales one bit.... I mean someone has to buy it new in the first place and Sony does not care for those who buy the system(loss profit) but not new games(lost profit)....

It won't affect me. Sony needs to extend game trials beyond PS+ users so all games can be sampled by anyone. But 60mins is too short. I didn't get anywhere in Two Worlds 2 before my time was up..

Why would the retailers do this? To lose their own profits? Major retailers have always sold new games.

Ok maybe that was a bit much granted my point of view has changed slightly I agree it needs to evolve but what I dont agree with is it needs to be a sudden thing gradually yes perhaps it can work but not a sudden change.

 

[LaBounti]

No one will agree but there should be game to game pre-own locking system. Games with low sales should be barred from being used by another user. Games that have been out for less than 8 months to a year should be locked from being used on another system/account. Give a little take a little...

 

[AleksandarSRB]

I just hope that PS4 won't need to be 24/7 on line because I don't have ethernet connection in my bedroom. I read that new xbox must be on line all time... My ethernet cable and computer are in living room.

 

[Samus]

No one will agree but there should be game to game pre-own locking system. Games with low sales should be barred from being used by another user. Games that have been out for less than 8 months to a year should be locked from being used on another system/account. Give a little take a little...

Thats a joke, right?

 

[Mulan]

I just hope that PS4 won't need to be 24/7 on line because I don't have ethernet connection in my bedroom. I read that new xbox must be on line all time... My ethernet cable and computer are in living room.

depending on money, but powerline connections are actually really nice.

 

[Luminis]

If developers get more money they can do better games and support games longer.

You honestly believe that? I mean, you can't be serious, can you? "Hey, let's decrease our revenue so we can give something back to the customers because we're such kind people!" Said no company. Ever.

 

[Ddrizle]

Aside from the new Playstation (if it is indeed announced), I'm hoping there's word on the games stuck in development hell......TLG, FFXIII Versus & Agent come Feb. 20.