PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4 

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ding ding!!!

AND what if the PS4 were to YLOD, you're SCREWED!!! After all, it seems they do not make consoles to last past their factory warranty.

Seems it will be locked to your ID surely? Unless its the Nintendo approach of tied to your console?
Then again if its tied to your account and you have multiple accounts on one system, your up the creek without an outboard engine.

False edit.

Wii U allows 12 accounts, all on the same email address. PS would have to follow suit to allow multiple users access to content.
 
Okay so it's (barely) possible :lol: Thanks man.

If the push is to go all digital, for all the next-gens, I don't see why they don't lock it to someone's account and have the game be 'active' on just one system at a time. If I were to go to a friends house, login and install and play a DLC game, it should work. Then when I go back to my own console, it should make that game 'active' and my friend can't play the game because I'm not logged in on the console. But he should also have the option to delete it off his HDD if he wants. Is that too much to ask for with this all DLC stuff?


Jerome
I hope and belive it is the way its going to be, i would imagine cloudservice is all about this. Accessability anywhere (with internet).

Save your game, go to your friend and load up and continue together.

As far as Chineese market, yes there is a problem with copy of games and consoles. Actually they are so good they are sold as original. Damned they even have IKEA stores that Ikea dont know about. But that is more about general piracy problems. Now consoles are actually not allowed in China (PS3, Xbox, Wii cant sell in China they are not allowed), simply because the state wanted control over who is doing what and "protect their youth". At the same time they have fixed their own games and consoles instead that are as PS3 and Xbox and Wii. Now this is a 2 way problem. China wants to controll the gamers but is allowing piracyversions. Sony and MS want to sell original stuff but are exposed of piracy versions in that case (now they (the copyversions) are not called PS3 and Xbox in China but if they are allowed to be selled then they will be. But if they get an online pass approval must be on for the games to be played the market can actually open even in China. So what can i say, its crazy. But the market is huuuuge and that is why we may have to adapt to certain restrictions so they get to the biggest market that is totally closed now.
 
As far as Chineese market, yes there is a problem with copy of games and consoles. Actually they are so good they are sold as original. Damned they even have IKEA stores that Ikea dont know about. But that is more about general piracy problems. Now consoles are actually not allowed in China (PS3, Xbox, Wii cant sell in China they are not allowed), simply because the state wanted control over who is doing what and "protect their youth". At the same time they have fixed their own games and consoles instead that are as PS3 and Xbox and Wii. Now this is a 2 way problem. China wants to controll the gamers but is allowing piracyversions. Sony and MS want to sell original stuff but are exposed of piracy versions in that case (now they (the copyversions) are not called PS3 and Xbox in China but if they are allowed to be selled then they will be. But if they get an online pass approval must be on for the games to be played the market can actually open even in China. So what can i say, its crazy. But the market is huuuuge and that is why we may have to adapt to certain restrictions so they get to the biggest market that is totally closed now.
I'm certain you have some sort of source for this information regarding how the Chinese have managed to reverse engineer the PS3, 360 and Wii hardware and firmware to the extent that they can sell identical copies but without the piracy blocking and that if they have perfected the antipiracy measures of the PS3 so thoroughly that they wouldn't be able to similarly circumvent a future effort just as well, yes? Because while it is true that China hasn't allowed console sales since 2000, this is the first I'm hearing of any of the rest of it; particularly the state-backed antipiracy efforts you are saying are happening to such a wide extent that Sony/Microsoft would be willing to punish gamers around the world.
 
China has one official games console, the Lenovo eedoo.

lenovo_isec.jpg

6647.jpg
 

Those appear to be genuine PS3 consoles being sold directly by the factory that normally makes PS3 equipment anyway and/or are probably stolen/grey market goods (and thus explaining why they are so cheap), but there's nothing from the listing suggesting they are bootlegged versions of reverse-engineered PS3 hardware.

remember they are not hunting piracy down in China like they do in europe or USA and so on...so they can do it. Read more?
http://kotaku.com/5587577/why-are-consoles-banned-in-china
there are newer versions too.

That's not actually a Nintendo Wii bootleg. That's not actually a PS3 bootleg system. Those are two things with similar appearances to the PS3 and Wii that have completely different hardware and a handful of crappy preloaded games on them to sucker people who think they are buying the real deal. Those things are completely irrelevant to your argument because those things don't play actual Playstation or Wii or 360 software, so there's no reason to implement these software checks when the software can't be played on the bootlegs anyway. They don't do anything much beyond look like a PS3 or Wii or 360.

That's also been happening for decades now:

14.jpg


I even have one of those Sega Genesis controllers shaped like an original PSX controller. I found it at a yard sale and simply had to have it because of the novelty (for the perfect trifecta, it is a Sega Genesis controller shaped like a PSX controller but with a Pokemon logo on it).




And China turning a blind eye to piracy isn't the same thing as China actively sponsoring piracy as you implied they were.
 
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I don't want to be that guy that goes against the group, but personally, I'm not really caring about the used game thing Sony will do. Since I do have all my old systems, the whole used game blocking thing will not bother me at all. That, and I seldom buy used games anyway, and if it's PS4 games then I generally buy them new because of all the bad experiences of past used games (scratches galore).

is that because people in america dont know how to handle discs?

i have bought a lot of used games and never even found a single scratch, guess people in the eu know how to hold a disc properly.

and like the other poster mentioned, a lot of games are worth playing but not worth the price. for games like this there is a second hand market. even for games that are worth it but people dont want to spend top dollar on it.

what i personally dont get is people buying from gbamestop etc. why buy a second hand game for 5 bucks cheaper? if you wanna buy a second hand game, it should be half or a third of the price.
 
what i personally dont get is people buying from gbamestop etc. why buy a second hand game for 5 bucks cheaper? if you wanna buy a second hand game, it should be half or a third of the price.

Return policy. You can only return a new game if it is defective and exchange it for the same item. Used games you can buy them, and return it if you don't like it. Plus they have a discount card that gets you another certain % off. It's worth it just for the return policy.
 
Tornado, i dont know what you are going for? Either you are against piracy or not. You cant say one thing and do another like the Chineese government. Its the same as approving. If they wanted to stop it they would try a bit harder like if you try posting something on the internet against the chineese government. Then you will see speedy reaction against you.
China is a piracyheaven and the chineese have learnt to play games for free.
This is nothing strange if you can buy games on the black market for small amount of the original. And since they have markets for the consoles too however they come there and noone stops them it will be hard for Sony/Microsoft to earn money.

If they cant have a game that is not able to be installed on other devices without internet then they wont make any money.
If they can controll this and able to sell content within games then they at least can earn money from there and actually possible to sell consoles too.
But i think they are still afraid to release the consoles and games in China. Another problem is of course the government need to controll the games too and censorship is hard.
Internet solution for games can be a good way solving many of theese problems and be able to compeete with the black market in china.


Here is a little shop for you :

http://www.china-underground.com/ma...ese-pirates-den-hacking-xbox360-playstation-3
 
Again, none of that post explains why anything that is happening in China necessitates locking games to an individual console. They aren't making the consoles that you asserted they were. The consoles you linked to showing that they were weren't remotely what you were presenting them as. The only example in the link you posted was the launch of the PS2 being derailed by copycat systems, which had antipiracy measures that were circumvented in the first year and is hardly relevant today.


I can be against piracy but not support antipiracy measures to the extent that I support removing consumer's rights, particularly when none of your arguments actually support your position.
 
Again, none of that post explains why anything in China necessitates locking games to an individual console. I can be against piracy but not support antipiracy measures to the extent that I support removing consumer's rights, particularly when none of your arguments actually support your position.

Its called money. Easy as that. If they can sell games in China then the stockprice for theese companies would rise quite alot.
So if they can get to that market and start selling then we will adapt simply because your rights are less worth than the chineese market.
 
Except they can't sell games in China, because it is still against the law to do so. It's all well and good if Sony/Microsoft want to punish everyone else for what people in China are doing to get around the fact that they are legally prohibited from buying game consoles, but that won't make it so Sony/Microsoft can actually sell consoles there.


You're basically making the argument that Sony/Microsoft are in the right to do this to tens of millions of gamers around the world purely so they can sell their next systems in parts of China separate from the mainland that don't fall under the ban. And not that many people live in Taiwan and Hong Kong.
 
That thing is still possible if the consoles are called a multimedia player instead. They could fix it like they did with the PS2.
They know they cant go against the piracymarket there if they dont make it impossible to play the games in any other way.
 
Return policy. You can only return a new game if it is defective and exchange it for the same item. Used games you can buy them, and return it if you don't like it. Plus they have a discount card that gets you another certain % off. It's worth it just for the return policy.
I still prefer 2nd hand market, but to each his own.
What I do: send a mail to the seller asking if the disc is scratched, wait his answer, if he say it's perfect or very good I purchase with a customer protection system. I don't want to advertise but you all probably already know the site.
Quoting from EA dude
“Would we like to sell everything at full price and not have a used game market? Sure. But I think the used game market's a little like any other kind of market where it creates liquidity. The fact is, that liquidity benefits us in some fashion. So if someone goes in and trades in a game, there's a good chance they're going to buy another one of our games. And so if there's a liquid market, I think that that's not a bad thing at all.”
BASICALLY it's what we said here some days ago.
So they know doing it can be risky.
He added that there will always be tension between game publishers’ desire to eliminate second-hand and consumer demand for the preowned marketplace. “I can't really comment on where the next generation boxes are going to be relative to used games. I will say that the trend in the business is to have that always-on connectivity and connect with a customer, and to the extent that the software identifies a certain customer is going to create some issues going down the road in the used game market. But I do believe that the consumer likes it, and it's been good for the retail channel.”
You do believe wrong. Some people will hate it, I'm one of them. Let's see how many games people will buy with this new system.

Let's suppose the new console will cost 400,00 €

five full price games a year:
69,90 x 5 = 349,50 €

five years of gaming
349,50 x 5 = 1747,50 €

a new consoles with 25 full price games will cost
1747,50 + 400,00 = 2147,50 €

THANKS BUT NO THANKS.
 
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Return policy. You can only return a new game if it is defective and exchange it for the same item. Used games you can buy them, and return it if you don't like it. Plus they have a discount card that gets you another certain % off. It's worth it just for the return policy.

ok but thats not really an issue for people like me.

personally i buy games i know i will like, and the games i buy i also keep and dont sell even after i finish them. here in the eu i have never encountered a game that wasnt minty fresh second hand, so there has never been a reason for me to return anything.

i know this could be a good reason if you dont know what you like and dont watch reviews and videos of the games you want to buy. i never just buy a game, i study it if its worth it for me and if it will give me the experience im looking for. after that i look at what i think the game is worth price wise, and i look for it and try to find it for the price im looking for. always worked like a charm.
 
I've got an idea for how Sony could shut down the used game market whilst still allowing people to "sell" their unwanted games.

Offer the option to revoke your license to play games tied your console in exchange for credit to your PSN account determined by certain factors... game's current price, how long you've owned the game, how long you've actually played the game, whether or not you've beaten it, etc.

This would prevent people from, say, buying the latest Uncharted and beating it in a day or two, just to turn around and sell it for a good chunk of their money back. Obviously if you've beaten the game or have put hundreds of hours into it, you shouldn't get very much... you got what you paid for, after all. But this would allow people to return games for most of their money back (without putting it on the used market) if they decide it just wasn't their cup of tea after trying it for a couple hours.

Taking the idea a step further, perhaps Sony could create its own game "stores" around the world where you don't actually buy the game... You simply walk in and take the discs for whatever games you want (paying only a small $5 deposit per disc), then go home and buy the license to actually play the games off of PSN. Then if you decide you don't want a game any more, you revoke your license in exchange for credit to your PSN account, then return the disc to a Sony store to get back your deposit.
 
I still prefer 2nd hand market, but to each his own.
What I do: send a mail to the seller asking if the disc is scratched, wait his answer, if he say it's perfect or very good I purchase with a customer protection system. I don't want to advertise but you all probably already know the site.

Quoting from EA dude

BASICALLY it's what we said here some days ago.
So they know doing it can be risky.

You do believe wrong. Some people will hate it, I'm one of them. Let's see how many games people will buy with this new system.

Let's suppose the new console will cost 400,00 €

five full price games a year:
69,90 x 5 = 349,50 €

five years of gaming
349,50 x 5 = 1747,50 €

a new consoles with 25 full price games will cost
1747,50 + 400,00 = 2147,50 €

THANKS BUT NO THANKS.

Well guess what, gaming is expensive...

And who pays 70 € for a game? 60 € and lower is normal now. 70 € might be the initial price tag, but that will change like it did with the ps3 games.

If you compare it to pc gaming it is not that much more expensive.

You have to pay for a mid-end gamin pc atleast 700 €.

700€ Gaming-pc
+ original Windows license

five games in one year
50 € x 5 = 250 €

2. to 3. year
150 € mid-end graphics card, because the first one cant keep up anymore

five years of gaming
700 € pc
150 € new graphics card
5 x 250 € games
= 2100 €

And you have to keep in mind that your pc was not high end when you bought it. That means that it will be outdated in atleast 2-3 years. But the games wont be optimized for your system, they always want the best hardware and features of it.

So, if you want to play cheaper on a pc, you have to make compromises in pc power and/or pirate games.

I cant argue with steam sales, but in a normal scenario you wont play cheaper.
 
^ You clearly aren't a PC gamer.

- I was playing Battlefield 3 on a 4870 from 2008 and I was getting 60fps with better graphics than the PS3 version.

- Crysis 3 is basically the first game to omit DX9/10 compatibility.

- Most games are straight console ports which run fine on even 8800GTS cards.

- AAA releases are generally £30-35 but there's almost always 10% off at launch, 25-33% off within the first six months and a couple of years down the line it'll be 75% off with all the DLC, though that's largely dependent on the publisher: EA rarely cuts the price by much, then all of a sudden slashes the price when the 'game of the year' edition comes out, Activision refuse to reduce prices much (Modern Warfare was £20 this Christmas!), Ubisoft do small sales until the sequel comes out, then all of a sudden Assassin's Creed Revelations is £5.

So, yeah. It largely depends on how smart and aware you are (loads of people ONLY buy games on Steam and miss deals like Sleeping Dogs for £7 with £4 cash back, Spec Ops The Line for $2.50, Skyrim for £8 when Steam has it for £15 and so on), how many games you buy and how patient you are. However the real trap is the constant 'too-good-to-pass-up' sales which make you buy them just because it's cheap and you're vaguely interested, but if you have self control you can buy far more than just 5 games for 250 of any currency.

TL; DR: Sales are the norm, not the exception. I play on PC and console and I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're getting ripped off when it comes to consoles.
 
@jabofu:
You're arguing that no one pays 70 bucks for a console game, that's true, but I also don't know anyone who pays 50 for a PC game (unless you buy it day one). When you're clever, you don't have to pay more than 20 (Call of Duty is an exception, but people who support Activision don't deserve better anyway).

Your PC price is kinda off too, 700 is way too cheap. ;)

EDIT:
TL; DR: Sales are the norm, not the exception. I play on PC and console and I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're getting ripped off when it comes to consoles.
True, especially for download titles, which cost more than retail versions sometimes.
 
You're doing things very, very wrong if you're paying the 50 a pop for PC games. Meanwhile, short of buying used (and even then you'll not save much for a while) there isn't much that you can do to avoid paying full price (or near it) for several months for console games. A situation that will only get worse, not better, if even half of the rumors are true.
 
I think if Sony implements this used game ban then new games will be tied to your PSN account, therefore if your console dies you won't be SOL.

FYI, I'm still on my first PS3. I have an 80GB fat PS3 and its still working like new. It's in a wide open space and it never gets hot, it's warm to touch. No YLODs.

I got a PS3 specifically to play GT and will get a PS4 for GT as well.
 
Yay. This has turned into a console VS PC debate. :rolleyes:

They are two different gaming platforms! Each with their own advantages. Consoles are nice and easy. With the PS3, and probably the PS4 as well, offering one of the best ways to watch movies as well.

I play a lot on both PC and PS3, and I'm hard pressed to pick a favorite. That said, There are some things that makes it easy to downright hate PC gaming The endless problems with DRM, malfunctional hardware and having to upgrade parts every few years. Close to half the games I buy for PC, I have to spend an hour or more getting to work. That's inexcusable.

Add to that the time it takes to find the optimal settings for each PC game, as it would just be too much to ask from the developers to actually spend time optimizing thier games.

That's of course not to say that PC gaming isn't great too. Some genres simply can't be played on consoles, like RTS games. PC games usually offer dedicated servers for online play, and Steam Sales are certainly nice.

The graphical differences from the best looking PS3 game to the best looking PC game is minor in terms of appearence. Though that won't stop some people from bringing out technical numbers that sound really impressive, dispite delivering a rather small visual difference.

I completely agree that console games are too expensive on release, but the exact same can be said for PC games. PC games just tend to lower in price quicker due to Steam.

To summarize. Consoles are easy to use, have a great line-up of exclusives (some of which are very unique), and in the case of the PS3, offers one of the best Blu-Ray players on the market.

PC's have cheaper games, and from a technical standpoint, they offer much better performance. They have the advantage of being upgradeable, though if you don't want to spend a fortune on it, you need to know what your doing.

And just to make sure I'm not flamed from suspicion of me having a horrible PC, and thus got a biased view on PC gaming. My PC is certainly not state of the art, but it has a Radeon 6870 fraphics card, 3gb RAM, and a rather outdated Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 Gh/z. This is then displayed on a 24inch HD monitor. I can run most games on highest settings.
 
Yay. This has turned into a console VS PC debate. :rolleyes:

Uh....

They are two different gaming platforms! Each with their own advantages. Consoles are nice and easy. With the PS3, and probably the PS4 as well, offering one of the best ways to watch movies as well.

I play a lot on both PC and PS3, and I'm hard pressed to pick a favorite. That said, There are some things that makes it easy to downright hate PC gaming The endless problems with DRM, malfunctional hardware and having to upgrade parts every few years.

DRM is on the developer. Unless... you're on console.... Want to talk about DRM? What are the past couple of pages about?

"Malfunctional" hardware... that's your problem. As if consoles don't ever "malfunction."

Who makes you upgrade parts? No one makes me upgrade PC parts...
You don't have to upgrade a console every few years? How many people have to buy an entirely new console because their old one was bricked?

The only reason you have to "upgrade parts every few years" is if you're trying to max out every new release and stay at a desired frame rate.

Close to half the games I buy for PC, I have to spend an hour or more getting to work. That's inexcusable.

That's your own fault; take a class or something.

Add to that the time it takes to find the optimal settings for each PC game, as it would just be too much to ask from the developers to actually spend time optimizing thier games.

Is it really that hard to change a couple of settings to reach an optimal fps? You can't even do that on console; you're just stuck at whatever frame rate and graphics fidelity the developer/console allow....

And here we go throwing around the word "optimize" again.

If it is taking you THAT much time to set up the graphics settings... take a class.

That's of course not to say that PC gaming isn't great too. Some genres simply can't be played on consoles, like RTS games. PC games usually offer dedicated servers for online play, and Steam Sales are certainly nice.

The graphical differences from the best looking PS3 game to the best looking PC game is minor in terms of appearence. Though that won't stop some people from bringing out technical numbers that sound really impressive, dispite delivering a rather small visual difference.

You're on crack.

Witcher 2, modded Skyrim, Crysis (1-3), modded GTA, Max Payne 3, I could go on, and on, and on.

Oh ya, on triples, or at a resolution of 2560x1440 or higher (you know... instead of 640x480...)

I completely agree that console games are too expensive on release, but the exact same can be said for PC games. PC games just tend to lower in price quicker due to Steam.


PC games typically release at $49.99 (US); if you go to cdkeyhouse.com or another site you can get them for $25-30 at release.

To summarize. Consoles are easy to use, have a great line-up of exclusives (some of which are very unique), and in the case of the PS3, offers one of the best Blu-Ray players on the market.

PC's have cheaper games, and from a technical standpoint, they offer much better performance. They have the advantage of being upgradeable, though if you don't want to spend a fortune on it, you need to know what your doing.

And just to make sure I'm not flamed from suspicion of me having a horrible PC, and thus got a biased view on PC gaming. My PC is certainly not state of the art, but it has a Radeon 6870 fraphics card, 3gb RAM, and a rather outdated Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 Gh/z. This is then displayed on a 24inch HD monitor. I can run most games on highest settings.

^ And that is why you are claiming "The graphical differences from the best looking PS3 game to the best looking PC game is minor in terms of appearence." Because you can't run them. I have a 7950 @1100/1500/i5 2500k @ 4.5/ 8GB DDR3/ 2 SATA3 SSD's and I can't max out every game @ 1920x1080.

I agree with your console opinions, easy to use, great blu-ray player (and it should be for the price....), etc etc. But, your problems with PC gaming are based on your own mis-understanding of the platform.
 
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Here is a thought...PC games are great, Console games are also great.
Both have + and - on their account. Viruses, cheating, more installproblems is not something to take lightly on a PC. Then again, if you have no problems there are games that just must be played on a PC for best enjoyment. Consolegaming is great for easy start and more social gaming (dancing, singing and so on). Livingrooms with a PS3 is ok, not so with a PC (wife says nono). Then we have the kids aspect, they find it easier to start a game on the console and learn playing. Controllers are great on the console, PC is almost only mous and keyboard, 2 playeraction is harder (like playing Rayman or Super Mario and so on).

And price for games? Its natural that they are more expensive on consoles and dont drop in price, we get cheaper hardware instead. On PC there is more of a technological aspect with new graphicengines and effects made to push hardware sales up so better to have cheaper games instead since they dont promote your hardware. And (sorry for returning on this) games on PC easier to copy, perhaps some cost is put on the console versions for this.

And to return to the PS4, ifeel games will be reasonably priced if they offer long gameplay as GT5 does. I dont mind paying 30$ extra for this since they take care of the servers too.
 
Just showing who I'm responding to without quoting the entire thing. :)

Sorry in advance for the very long post.

Yes. DRM is the fault of the developer. When did I say anything different? Fact is, that DRM is quite a problem with PC gaming, where as it isn't (yet) on consoles.

Consoles do indeed malfunction from time to time. However, as high-end PC's are being put under more stress, reliability problems are more of a problem. And what's more, fixing, or even finding the problem, can be a real hazzle.

You need to upgrade every now and again in order to play modern games. This is a fact. Don't deny that upgrades are necessary to get the most out of the games. Very low graphic settings can hamper both the atmosphere and draw distance in games, resulting in a less than stellar game experience. And I think I speak for a lot of people, when I say it's quite annoying not to be able to play on the highest settings. Not even sure how to explain it. Kind of feels like your missing out on features.

And getting lower framrate than what the game was designed for can and will destroy the fun of playing the game.

You say I need to take a class because a lot of games don't work like they should? Why? Why is it too much to expect that a game works out of the box. This was my point when I said that consoles and nice and easy. They work.

Let me give some examples, starting with BF3. Rubbish game, both in actual gameplay related areas, but also in how it works. Myself, along with a ton of other people, are suffering from the game freezing up at freuqent intervals, and the game has trouble saving progress. Then there's of course Origin...

BF2, one of my favorite shooters isn't without problems either. I had the game a long time ago, and decided to purchase it again. I had to spend 2-3 hours searching the web for different solutions on how to make the game understand that my CD Key was valid (wouldn't let me join servers). I got it working, but damn was I grumpy about it.

I should't need to know how a PC works in order to get games to run. Belive it or not, not everyone is interested in stuff like that. The fact that problems like these don't exist with consoles, is a very appealing feature to many.

Yes, on consoles, you're stuck with one setting. How is this a bad thing? It means that the developers can make sure that everyone experiences the same thing. No one misses out. What possible reason could you have for wanting that option in consoles?

I never said It took me a long time to fiddle with settings. But when you have to do it with every modern game, it gets tiresome. And some games can indeed be troublesome in this regard. Rage for an example, is said to be quite a hazzle to set up to your PC's specs.

And here comes the typical uninformed and arrogant PC player remarks... (no offence, but honestly)
First things first. Crysis was and still is excellent. And the graphics are certainly great. But KZ2 (and occasionally the 3rd game too) and Uncharted 2/3 looks better and more detailed. Modern consoles do not run at 640x480, but nice try. PC games do indeed have higher resolutions, but for the vast majority of games, the actual visual difference is very small. This is the kind of "impressive numbers" BS I was talking about earlier. Once again, if it doesn't have a sizeable visual difference, then it doesn't matter.

Skyrim has never been a fantastic looking game, though the draw distance is rather impressive. Though you do actually mention one thing that I forgot to mention in my original post. Modding. This is indeed one of the greatest things about PC gaming. Even if some developers use it to finish their games (Bethesda, cough cough).

As I said before, I agree that new releases (both on consoles and PC's) are too expensive. One can always find decent priced games, if you just look at the right places.

On a final note. I never said I could run every game on the highest settings. I said I could run most on highest. Though games like Crysis still drop a tad low on FPS at certain places. Again, if disregard numbers, and simply look at one of the greatest looking PS3 exclusives, and then compare it to one of the greatest looking PC game, the difference is not that big. It's certainly there. But it's nowhere near big enough to make a real difference on gameplay or atmosphere.

Its been quite a while since that was true, at best it now is on par with entry level BR players.

I see. My bad.
 
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