PLZ no more Expensive Cars in GT7

[Samus]

Did he claim someone said 'they want to obtain everything in five minutes'?
I must have missed it.

Yes, several times he has claimed that people want everything in five minutes, that's why he keeps mentioning it but until he provides evidence these people exist, it's just a false argument.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/plz-no-more-expensive-cars-in-gt7.395289/page-2#post-13192316

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Yes, several times he has claimed that people want everything in five minutes, that's why he keeps mentioning it but until he provides evidence these people exist, it's just a false argument.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/plz-no-more-expensive-cars-in-gt7.395289/page-2#post-13192316

Bit of a long stretch of the bow for me, but fair enough.

BTW, what would an appropriate time frame be?
Not sure I've seen anyone put forward any sort of a number regarding that yet.

 

[Samus]

Bit of a long stretch of the bow for me, but fair enough.

BTW, what would an appropriate time frame be?
Not sure I've seen anyone put forward any sort of a number regarding that yet.

Well obviously everyone will have their own ideas but for me it's less about the overall time but just that the credit payout increases exponentially as the career progresses, so that by the time you are in the top leagues, which could take 40-50 hours, you're easily earning enough to buy some of the most expensive cars in a handful of hours, or even passively. Then your time going through the top events makes that even easier.

It's not directly comparable for so many reasons but you can roughly compare it to a real racing driver, or I guess any sport. In the early days once you start doing well you might earn enough via prize money and sponsorship to buy a decent $30k car, but not much more. You slowly progress your career until you get to the point you're earning $40+ million a year and money is essentially no object.

As I say it's not directly comparable as we can't literally live and work a year in a game like reality, but the rough concepts can be applied so that you're rolling in cash at the end of an extensive career. Which is certainly not the case with GTS now, where at the end of a career you might have earned enough to buy one or two of the most expensive cars with further grinding required.

 

[Dave A]

Yes mate GT6 is slow because of the economy but it is fun to play, and to Grind the Red bull over & over and other events as well for credits to buy them cars that you need.

You might find grinding the same handful of races over any over fun but not everyone does. What is wrong with stopping the grind being neccessary? Or at the very least reducing it to what it was in the earlier GT games?

For GT7 if you want them cars in the game there are 2 things you can do.
No.1 Grind the race over & over that pays good credits.
No.2 Buy the cars with real money at the Playstation store.
So no matter what you do you still need to Grind to get them 20 million credit cars if you like it or not.

Can you provide your source for this information or are you just making it up? This might be the case but it never used to be, so we could see a return to an in game economy more akin to earlier titles, which would be great IMO. We could see an entirely new structure or you could be right, but you keep putting your view as though it is factual information, so you must have inside knowldege right? Please share the source.

Why have a progress in a game for getting credits easy, it should be a challenge a real challenge for getting credits and not get everything in the game in 5 minutes.

No one said it sohuld be easy and no one said it should only take 5 minutes. There is a big difference between grinding and a challenge. It is not hard to grind, it is just boring and ecessively time consuming. Look you've already been shown the differences in the amount of time it takes in GT Sport compared to other games. You've been asked your opinion on various other points and instead of acknowledging or progressing this discussion you elect to ignore every point raised and repeat the same anal argument (which is not even an argument it a fallicious load of bull crap). I suggest you start responding to points rather than just putting your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la la".

If a player spends less time playing well you can not Blame the game economy can you, and if the player that plays more is going love the economy like in GT Sport.

Of course you can because what they can do in the game during that time is defined in a large way by the games economy. Remember no one is saying it should only take 5 minutes to afford everything or even one of the 20m Cr cars. Only you are bringing that up. If a person is spending a reasonable amount of time in the game but getting hardly anywhere they have a right to complain, it doesn't matter if another person spends 10hrs a day every day on it and has gotten a lot further.

In GT Sport to get a 1 million credits in just over 30 minutes from winning races is dam good, and for GT7 and it will be more than 1 million credits in 30 minutes of play, but we need to see what PD gives us. So whatever happens in GT7 you will still need to Grind.

Provide a source or stop stating your guesswork (which may or may not end up being right but is guesswork all the same) as fact.

Remember whatever PD dishes out for us for GT7 you just have to accept on what economy we get in the game, if you like it or not.

No you don't, did the jews have to just accept extermination during WW2 because that's just the way it was in Nazi Gernamy or could the ones that had a chance to do something about it and hide or get out? Your argument has absolutely zero logic to it. If people went by your logic nothing would ever change because everything would just be "the way it is and that's that". What an absolutely absured view.

 

[CBH]

Show me one person, just one, who says they want to obtain everything in five minutes.

Oh, and rubber banding your controller overnight or parking your car at the entrance to the pit lane for a glitch is not a challenge, Is it?

It's the players that are calling for bigger credits payouts, and they are the ones that want everything in 5 minutes so they don't need to grind, which is wrong. You need to Grind and if you don't, well it is your issues and not the game ok sunshine. So if PD gives us low credits payouts for GT7, you just have to accept it on what you get in the game ok.

Rubber banding your controller overnight, it is not worth doing that, because if you are a Good driver like me driver you then don't need to do it with a DS4 , and the pit lane glitch does not work anymore sunshine.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Well obviously everyone will have their own ideas but for me it's less about the overall time but just that the credit payout increases exponentially as the career progresses, so that by the time you are in the top leagues, which could take 40-50 hours, you're easily earning enough to buy some of the most expensive cars in a handful of hours, or even passively. Then your time going through the top events makes that even easier.

It's not directly comparable for so many reasons but you can roughly compare it to a real racing driver, or I guess any sport. In the early days once you start doing well you might earn enough via prize money and sponsorship to buy a decent $30k car, but not much more. You slowly progress your career until you get to the point you're earning $40+ million a year and money is essentially no object.

As I say it's not directly comparable as we can't literally live and work a year in a game like reality, but the rough concepts can be applied so that you're rolling in cash at the end of an extensive career. Which is certainly not the case with GTS now, where at the end of a career you might have earned enough to buy one or two of the most expensive cars with further grinding required.

Roger that.

Yeh, there are some things economy-wise in Sport that could have been done a bit better.
Things like a championship bonus etc.
Sure, it would have reduced the time required, save doing a race here and there.
Although I'm not certain anything would have been a major game changer regarding getting cars.

I do wonder though if earning too many credits too early would be considered a game breaker by some.

I've tried to bit a bit proactive checking this topic out.
A new game I started had me with 50 free cars and Cr.10mill. in around a dozen hours.
The only thing I was locked out of was the League Endurance events, as I am mid way through level 28 and I need level 30 to unlock.
That seems like a reasonable launching pad to me.

Personally I play the game to race against other people.
I don't rubber-band nor glitch, and I've done 18 GT League races on my main account since launch, so I don't 'grind' either.
I've won over Cr.100Mill. basically racing exclusively online, with it's pathetic payouts, but I'm not racing to earn credits either.
I race because it's fun.

Now, each to their own I guess.
But this GT League approach of 'this race takes 9 mins to earn 300k, and these other races take 9.5 or 10 mins to earn the same amount, therefore I'm only driving in this first race' seems a little extreme to me.
There seems plenty of race varieties available to earn decent credits.
Sure, it takes a little longer. No question.
But 'doing the same race over and over' isn't a game design, it's people's personal choice.

Anyway, as I said, each to their own.
People play the game differently and have their own objectives.

 

[Samus]

It's the players that are calling for bigger credits payouts, and they are the ones that want everything in 5 minutes so they don't need to grind

So you've equated wanting bigger payouts to wanting everything in five minutes. Great. Your genius levels of logic know no bounds.

You need to Grind

NO YOU DON'T.

Get it into your head, grinding is not required in video games. If PD want to construct a game without grinding, they can. And should. That is what we're asking for. Not all the cars in five minutes. Just no grinding. Sunshine.

 

[Dave A]

It's the players that are calling for bigger credits payouts, and they are the ones that want everything in 5 minutes so they don't need to grind, which is wrong. You need to Grind and if you don't, well it is your issues and not the game ok sunshine. So if PD gives us low credits payouts for GT7, you just have to accept it on what you get in the game ok.

Rubber banding your controller overnight, it is not worth doing that, because if you are a Good driver like me driver you then don't need to do it with a DS4 , and the pit lane glitch does not work anymore sunshine.

Are you going to actually answer a single point raised or just keep repeating the same illogical bs over an over, becuase if you don't start actually trying to move this discussion forward and keep ignoring everyones points you're getting reported for trolling.

There is no logic or reason to any of your posts, you keep getting called out, you keep getting disproven and you refuse to respond to or acknowledge any of the points raised in favour of repeating the same already disproven banal points over and over again.

 

[Famine]

GT6 is slow because of the economy ... GT Sport has got a good economy

They require approximately the same amount of time to win enough money to buy the highest value cars.

and GT7 will most likely to be the same but with a little more credits to earn.

After several posts of "GT Sport isn't a Numbered game" being a reason why the economy is different, now you're claiming GT7's economy will be the same as GT Sport's, despite being a numbered game?

Why have a progress in a game for getting credits easy, it should be a challenge a real challenge for getting credits and not get everything in the game in 5 minutes.

Believe it or not, there is a time period somewhere between five minutes and seven solid days. They're not the only two options.

If a player spends less time playing well you can not Blame the game economy can you, and if the player that plays more is going love the economy like in GT Sport.

Grinding isn't playing. Nor is cheating playing.

In GT Sport to get a 1 million credits in just over 30 minutes from winning races is dam good

Not in the face of what it is you need the money for. A game's economy isn't just what you earn but what you spend. GT Sport pays out money at the second quickest rate in the entire history of Gran Turismo, but it takes the second most amount of time in the entire history of Gran Turismo to earn enough money to buy the most expensive cars.

You can buy every one of the 1,000 buyable cars in GT1, GT2, and GT3 combined in less time than it takes to buy the 315 buyable cars in GT Sport.

and for GT7 and it will be more than 1 million credits in 30 minutes of play

We don't know anything about GT7's economy yet.

So whatever happens in GT7 you will still need to Grind

We don't know anything about GT7's economy yet.

Remember whatever PD dishes out for us for GT7 you just have to accept on what economy we get in the game, if you like it or not.

This still isn't a sensible point of any kind.

BTW, what would an appropriate time frame be?
Not sure I've seen anyone put forward any sort of a number regarding that yet.

There isn't a specific number - it depends entirely on the content. It'd be silly to have 35 hours of races but only need five hours to acquire all the cars... or vice versa. And GT Sport's economy should always have been tilted towards Sport Mode (the "Career" didn't exist until two months post launch), with higher payouts for not only online racing but consistently racing online - a GT6-like bonus, increasing for each successive day you did a Daily Race, up to a 2x or 3x cap.


I would say that an ideal game economy would be one in which you can acquire every item after performing every task once. In GT Sport that would be getting gold on every licence, mission, circuit experience, and career mode race - a solid 24 hours of "racing" there - plus meeting all the requirements for the in-game achievements and getting the bonuses from that.

Of course some of the achievements are mince (such as the 1,000 photo and livery likes; they also can't be done outside of the game, even though your likes on the website sync with those in the game), so you might like to do a high-value race a few times - or head online and take advantage of that daily race login bonus the game doesn't have - instead of the more boring task. And that's the acceptable face of grinding: doing something interesting a few times instead of something not interesting by choice.

The game would also need to increase the number of races to suit the new cars. If a 1m credit car arrives, so there should be new races with a total first-place payout of 1m credits. 20m if it's a 20m car. 4m if it's a seven-car set worth a total of 4m.

I don't think anyone would find that unacceptable, even Mr. You Have to Grind Because Grinding is Something You Have to Do.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

*Snip*
There isn't a specific number - it depends entirely on the content. It'd be silly to have 35 hours of races but only need five hours to acquire all the cars... or vice versa. And GT Sport's economy should always have been tilted towards Sport Mode (the "Career" didn't exist until two months post launch), with higher payouts for not only online racing but consistently racing online - a GT6-like bonus, increasing for each successive day you did a Daily Race, up to a 2x or 3x cap.


I would say that an ideal game economy would be one in which you can acquire every item after performing every task once. In GT Sport that would be getting gold on every licence, mission, circuit experience, and career mode race - a solid 24 hours of "racing" there - plus meeting all the requirements for the in-game achievements and getting the bonuses from that.

Of course some of the achievements are mince (such as the 1,000 photo and livery likes; they also can't be done outside of the game, even though your likes on the website sync with those in the game), so you might like to do a high-value race a few times - or head online and take advantage of that daily race login bonus the game doesn't have - instead of the more boring task. And that's the acceptable face of grinding: doing something interesting a few times instead of something not interesting by choice.

The game would also need to increase the number of races to suit the new cars. If a 1m credit car arrives, so there should be new races with a total first-place payout of 1m credits. 20m if it's a 20m car. 4m if it's a seven-car set worth a total of 4m.

I don't think anyone would find that unacceptable, even Mr. You Have to Grind Because Grinding is Something You Have to Do.

Interesting concept.

I feel it could result in a rather large Career Mode though.
I did a quick Credit tally up of the top priced 100 cars for Sport, 6, and 5.
Sport's tally was around Cr.270mill.
That's a lot of individual races for the full car list.

But saying that, there's probably plenty of people that would welcome a huge Career Mode.
So, sure ... why not. 👍

 

[Famine]

Interesting concept.

I feel it could result in a rather large Career Mode though.
I did a quick Credit tally up of the top priced 100 cars for Sport, 6, and 5.
Sport's tally was around Cr.270mill.
That's a lot of individual races for the full car list.

But saying that, there's probably plenty of people that would welcome a huge Career Mode.
So, sure ... why not. 👍

Well, that's certainly true

However, the highest value races in Sport's career mode are some of the endurance races, where you're looking at 500,000cr (750k for a clean race; more is possible if you take advantage of a handicap in the Porsche event), for just about 90 minutes of racing - but then you look at Premium Sports Lounge which throws six figures at you (up to 375k with the handicap bonus and clean race bonus; N200 is possible for more, but the time penalty isn't worth it) for 11'45 at Blue Moon Bay.

That means there's room for not only higher payouts in the existing endurance races (they're about a third the credit rate of PSL), but higher paying, and longer, endurance races. Wind the Gr.1 Endurance Cup up to 2m a pop - it's still slightly slower than PSL, but way more engaging. Better still, make it a series of four-hour races worth 6m, wind the Gr.3 Endurance up to 3hr at 4m, shove in a 2hr Gr.4 Endurance category at 2m each. There's already a 1hr Porsche endurance category, why not add some other 1hr one-makes - MX-5s, Clio V6s, TVR Tuscans.

Better better still, make them into a Championship series, with a bonus of 2x any one race (you'd have to make them so you could suspend the championship to spend money, because three Gr.1 Endurance races would get you up to the base cap), and a prize car. Then you could do the same with events in the Professional League - Gr.2s, for example.

You could easily put a career mode together with GT Sport's assets that isn't tedious, lasts 40 hours and pays out enough to buy all the cars in the game (with help from the Achievements bonuses).


And, although it's not the specific subject of this thread, reach that awful 2.4m XP level 50 mark. I play this game as a job, and I'm only at level 48...

 

[05XR8]

I think GTPSP offered 1 million or two million for a few laps at Nurburing Single Race Mode. Increase the payout that much in Sport Mode Race A&B and there is yet again incentive for players to play online.

 

[Samus]

As many of us have surely said several times in between the circular arguments, the actual credit payout numbers and cost of cars are mostly irrelevant. All that matters is the two compliment each other and most importantly, scale equally, as you progress through the game.

The value of cars in GTS scales from 10,000 credits to 20 million. Buying a 10,000 credit car at the start of the game is simple, buying a 20 million one at the "end" of the game should be just as easy, or close to it. It's far, far from it in GTS.

It's pretty standard in games of any genre, you start out being able to buy the basic gear, by the end you can afford the best stuff. You shouldn't get to the end and the best stuff is still far out of reach, that's the imbalance GTS has.

 

[Famine]

As many as have surely said several times in between the circular arguments, the actual credit payout numbers and cost of cars are mostly irrelevant. All that matters is the two compliment each other and most importantly, scale equally.

Indeed, and this is what our... "sunshine" is missing. A game's economy is what you get vs. what you spend; a game which pays out far too much money compared to what you need to spend is as bad as one which has too little. Nobody wants his putative "five minutes" game, but the 168-hour version is also absurd, not least because most of those hours come from doing one single race eight hundred times.

GT Sport's economy design is poor, and among the poorest in the series. Yet with what it has in the game it could be 40 hours+ that never gets dull or repetitive.

 

[sanrensho]

Why is it always "them cars" but never "them players" or "them payouts"?
I think dude has found a way to tea roll without breaking the rules.

 

[Famine]

I think dude has found away to tea roll without breaking the rules.

Remember Hanlon's Razor.

 

[sanrensho]

Remember Hanlon's Razor.

Fair enough. The Jury is out, though, re the "adequately" part.

 

[Tricky Vega]

Indeed, and this is what our... "sunshine" is missing. A game's economy is what you get vs. what you spend; a game which pays out far too much money compared to what you need to spend is as bad as one which has too little. Nobody wants his putative "five minutes" game, but the 168-hour version is also absurd, not least because most of those hours come from doing one single race eight hundred times.

GT Sport's economy design is poor, and among the poorest in the series. Yet with what it has in the game it could be 40 hours+ that never gets dull or repetitive.

I agree what's been explained about the game's virtual economy, it is obvious this NEEDS some huge adjustments without making the game too easy.

And can we consider some additional options oriented to the more "cars' collector" players' profile which could concern the real economy this time ?

I mean, would it be acceptable in Gran Turismo to buy a time limited (1 month or 2 ) collector's pass in the PS Store which could double your earnings at the end of each races to allow you to get some expensive cars more quickly ? Instead of buying cars directly from the PS Store ?

Simple question, I'm not claiming this is a good idea ... yet 💡

 

[Dave A]

I mean, would it be acceptable in Gran Turismo to buy a time limited (1 month or 2 ) collector's pass in the PS Store which could double your earnings at the end of each races to allow you to get some expensive cars more quickly ? Instead of buying cars directly from the PS Store ?

Simple question, I'm not claiming this is a good idea ... yet 💡

No, you've bought the game. If they do that its a crappy move to charge people to make the in game economy acceptable as opposed to just making it balanced in the game in the first place.

 

[Tricky Vega]

No, you've bought the game. If they do that its a crappy move to charge people to make the in game economy acceptable as opposed to just making it balanced in the game in the first place.

I was meaning that option in an already balanced economy,
to accelerate the incomes for those poeple who haven't much time to spend on the game, or simply for players aiming to own every cars in the game (if it is +600) etc...

An option to buy in the PS Store instead of buying cars directly from the PS Store...

And no I haven't bought Gran Turismo 7 yet !

 

[IXON009]

I mean, would it be acceptable in Gran Turismo to buy a time limited (1 month or 2 ) collector's pass in the PS Store which could double your earnings at the end of each races to allow you to get some expensive cars more quickly ? Instead of buying cars directly from the PS Store ?

Simple question, I'm not claiming this is a good idea ... yet 💡

I think I know what you're meaning. It's like the F1 2016 career booster DLC you can buy from the PS Store, right?

 

[Tricky Vega]

I think I know what you're meaning. It's like the F1 2016 career booster DLC you can buy from the PS Store, right?

Yeah sort of ! It'd be a credit booster for "car collector" players.
The more you play the more you're gaining extra credits to spend in the dealerships.

It would be a sort of economic "win-win" option if we consider a 5$ charge for a 1 month pass, 8.5$ for 2 months and 20$ for 6 months.

And I repeat that I do not wish that to compensate a poor in-game economy.

 

[Dave A]

I was meaning that option in an already balanced economy,
to accelerate the incomes for those poeple who haven't much time to spend on the game, or simply for players aiming to own every cars in the game (if it is +600) etc...

An option to buy in the PS Store instead of buying cars directly from the PS Store...

And no I haven't bought Gran Turismo 7 yet !

Fair enough, as a purely optional thing then in theory I don't have an issue with it. However in practice, where speeding up a game economy has been monetised it's usually with the caveat that the normal economy only gets you so far before you have to grind like mad which then encourages people to either give up or more towards the economy boost package. Granted most titles with these features are mobile apps or free to play otherwise, but from a business model if the economy is just fine as it is, a boost pack might not be worth offering.

So in thoery fine, in practice I'm not sure. It would be unsual (though absolutely not impossible) for such a pack to be availalbe and for the standard in game economy to be balanced enough to see the average gamer through.

 

[Tricky Vega]

Fair enough, as a purely option thing then in theory I don't have an issue with it. However in practice, where speeding up a game economy has been monetised it's usually with the caveat that the normal economy only gets you so far before you have to grind like mad which then encourages people to either give up or more towards the economy boost package. Granted most titles with these features are mobile apps or free to play otherwise, but from a business model if the economy is just find as it is, a boost pack might not be worth offering.

So in thoery fine, in practice I'm not sure. It would be unsual (though absolutely not impossible) for such a pack to be availalbe and for the standard in game economy to be balanced enough to see the average gamer through.

Yeah I get your point,

And compared to the option of buying cars directly from PS Store for GT Sport (which I've made several times to save some credits and get a MKIV or a 330 p4)
I think the "credit booster" monthly pass would be a better option because it still makes the players winning races to obtain the cars they wish.

It'd be also benefic to the average players and even the occasional players as it'd be considered as a monthly option.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah I get your point,

And compared to the option of buying cars directly from PS Store for GT Sport (which I've made several times to save some credits and get a MKIV or a 330 p4)
I think the "credit booster" monthly pass would be a better option because it still makes the players winning races to obtain the cars they wish.

It'd be also benefic to the average players and even the occasional players as it'd be considered as a monthly option.

If they do it right it would be fine as an option, but if they announced such a pack I would immediately be sceptical based on previous experiance. Doesn't mean it would be bad, I'd just be cautious until I've seen that it works fine without the pack.

 

[Tricky Vega]

If they do it right it would be fine as an option, but if they announced such a pack I would immediately be sceptical based on previous experience. Doesn't mean it would be bad, I'd just be cautious until I've seen that it works fine without the pack.

I understand, I'd probably do so.

In the between time I've been asking myself if that sort of credit booster would be better if it was related to a trophy won by playing the game.

For instance, once you bought 20 cars you get a bronze trophy as a car collector plus a 10% credit bonus at the end of each race,
75 cars ---- silver trophy ---- 40% bonus
150 cars ---- gold trophy ---- 100% bonus.

It would be a bit more fair, isn't it ?

 

[05XR8]

I think going back to prize cars in Career/Arcade/GT Mode is the best move:

Sunday Cup - win the next car to use in the first One Make

FF Cup - win the next car to use in the Japan '90s race

Japan '90s - win the next car to use in (insert Cup Race)

If Online players won't even touch Arcade/Campaign/GT Mode/Anything offline, have them watch the Ettiquette Videos and offer free initial choices of Gr.B,GR.4,GR.3,GR.1 like we get for FIA Manu.

As has been mentioned, make the payouts equal to Offline payouts, for completing races.

 

[CBH]

Playing GT7 you will still need to grind them races that have the better payouts over & over, if you want one or all of the high priced cars in the game. Playing GT6 I did not buy all the 20 million credits cars in the game only 2 cars, and I had to grind for them and the other cars I needed for my garage.
GT Sport is not a numbered game, but it was good for earning credits with the amount of cars in the game .

I expect GT7 game economy is going to be like GT6 game economy when the game server was online, and you still need to Grind to earn credits by doing the same race again & again, to buy them unicorn if you want. For GT7 you be able to buy the cars at the PS store so you don't need to Grind for them, but if you say no to the PS store well you have to grind.
For GT7 you may win a lot of cars by winning the events anyway. So whatever happens in GT7 just play the game whether you play for 30 minutes or 2 hours a day, and remember this just because you can only play for 30 minutes a day and you blame the game for a poor economy is a very lame excuse.

 

[Silver Arrows]

You know, for how much you seem deadset on thinking that the same will apply, one might think Kaz himself gave you an alpha copy. Surely to look for bugs and exploits for you to use that he'll patch out to prevent you from abusing the game's economy with glitches and exploits.

 

[TonyJZX]

One sort of indictment about how popular the economy works is that when there are credit exploits people jump on them.

Why is that I wonder?

There were exploits in other like games and of course, there was exploitation as well but if your progression wasnt too uphill then people didnt care... in fact, some other games didnt even bother to patch exploits given that you could just about get the cars in usual gameplay.