PMC Discussion Thread: 3.0 Interest Check
- Thread starter Captain Roh
- 376 comments
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- 107
- ejronin
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
Indeed Ejronin, indeed!
- 108
Don't worry, something is in the works.
- 107
- ejronin
I really hope so - I don't mind having to utilize the in-game tools and SOME post processing limits are fine, but I really would like to see something where a competition pulls on a variety of skills in a manner that doesn't favor one mind-set over another. For example, some people are great with the camera, but if you force them to make a total package, they might not do so well while others may not do well with a camera, but they're creative enough to pull a composition together with other things; a balancing act so-to-speak.
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
Just an idea that stroke my head today. maybe worth mentioning here too.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4626658&posted=1#post4626658
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4626658&posted=1#post4626658
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Tying in with my post here on the subject, it seems that despite being 2 months in now, we're still having an oddly high amount of users too lazy to read the first post in competitions.
While it's can end up being more of a nuisance than anything (judge just skips past them, doesn't really hurt everybody else's chances of making poll), I imagine the users who are posting these ineligible entries will get discouraged when they repeatedly don't move on. So, I'd like some input on what the community thinks could be done with the first posts, specifically with 2.0, but feel free to bring up anything about either comp, really. I've done a slight re-shuffle right now to emphasize the most commonly-broken rule, but I want to hear more from you guys 👍
Also, another I'll bring up: Editing. Specifically, I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of the list of tools, and simply expanding the "Do's and Don'ts" section there. How a user gets their results is almost less important than which results they've achieved specifically, to me, in most cases. Especially since most of the editing done in 2.0 these days is less extreme than the GT4 days, and mostly down to different colour balance-like techniques. I feel like what's more important now (with the upcoming Photoshop competition approaching) is to focus on what hard limitations will be in place in 2.0. Things like no made-from-PS bodykits, sticking to a single GT5 image, no graphic design elements past a signature, things like this. That definitely needs an open discussion to nail down the proper wording, so it can be as clear and concise as possible for users.
Have at it!
While it's can end up being more of a nuisance than anything (judge just skips past them, doesn't really hurt everybody else's chances of making poll), I imagine the users who are posting these ineligible entries will get discouraged when they repeatedly don't move on. So, I'd like some input on what the community thinks could be done with the first posts, specifically with 2.0, but feel free to bring up anything about either comp, really. I've done a slight re-shuffle right now to emphasize the most commonly-broken rule, but I want to hear more from you guys 👍
Also, another I'll bring up: Editing. Specifically, I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of the list of tools, and simply expanding the "Do's and Don'ts" section there. How a user gets their results is almost less important than which results they've achieved specifically, to me, in most cases. Especially since most of the editing done in 2.0 these days is less extreme than the GT4 days, and mostly down to different colour balance-like techniques. I feel like what's more important now (with the upcoming Photoshop competition approaching) is to focus on what hard limitations will be in place in 2.0. Things like no made-from-PS bodykits, sticking to a single GT5 image, no graphic design elements past a signature, things like this. That definitely needs an open discussion to nail down the proper wording, so it can be as clear and concise as possible for users.
Have at it!
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
Sounds good Slipz,
On the first part,
I think you do very fine as you do right now, it's just the lazyness is here with alot of people.
And they don't like to read coloured text, it seems. Maybe it is better to remove the tools list and just emphasize on the Don'ts, could be more obvious for HDR guys in there.
The second part,
is still difficult to understand for me,
as i see 2.0 as a photoshop competition without graphical design interferance.
So for me it's good as it is now.
About that new competition you say, maybe the name itself isn't the best,
calling it photoshop competition could be a bit awkward as alot of members use that program for 2.0.
The competition itself will be more than welcome to give the uberartists around here like Rev, Moglet, RG,.... a new challenge.
Just a thought.
On the first part,
I think you do very fine as you do right now, it's just the lazyness is here with alot of people.
And they don't like to read coloured text, it seems. Maybe it is better to remove the tools list and just emphasize on the Don'ts, could be more obvious for HDR guys in there.
The second part,
is still difficult to understand for me,
as i see 2.0 as a photoshop competition without graphical design interferance.
So for me it's good as it is now.
About that new competition you say, maybe the name itself isn't the best,
calling it photoshop competition could be a bit awkward as alot of members use that program for 2.0.
The competition itself will be more than welcome to give the uberartists around here like Rev, Moglet, RG,.... a new challenge.
Just a thought.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
2.0 does involve Photoshop, yeah (and other photo-editing software), but the Photoshop Comp (or whichever name the new hosts have decided upon... ) is a free-for-all. Back in GT4, we had cop chase images (with explosions), movie-car themes (Rev did an awesome conversion of the 80's Esprit into the 007 submersible version), a "paste GT4 car into a real life image" challenge, car mashups (I did a M5 front-end on a 120d hatch body)... things like that. I'm not sure if there will be some more graphic design-heavy themes, like the ever-popular Magazine covers or ads, but we'll see 
) is a free-for-all. Back in GT4, we had cop chase images (with explosions), movie-car themes (Rev did an awesome conversion of the 80's Esprit into the 007 submersible version), a "paste GT4 car into a real life image" challenge, car mashups (I did a M5 front-end on a 120d hatch body)... things like that. I'm not sure if there will be some more graphic design-heavy themes, like the ever-popular Magazine covers or ads, but we'll see 
- 1,805
- Adelaide
- Revolution52
I'm all for removing the list of tools. It's incredibly difficult to nail down the tools people ought to and ought not be able to use, especially when not everybody uses the same image editing program. Photoshop is the most popular sure, but saying that people are allowed to use this tool, that tool, etc, must surely be confusing to those who stick to free alternatives, or other pieces of software, say Lightroom or similar.
Not to mention that some tools which are technically not allowed, an identical effect can be achieved within the rules, just in a roundabout sort of way. For example, in the past I've used a Threshold filter in CS5 on a new layer to isolate the highlights in the image (say, the sun shining on the bonnet of my car), then apply a gaussian blur and set the layer blending to "Screen" or "Lighten" to enhance the highlights and add a bit of a soft glow to them.
The Threshold filter isn't in the list of allowed tools, but I can achieve the exact same effect by desaturating and then pumping up the contrast to extreme levels.
Anyhow, my point is, nailing down what you're allowed to use Photoshop *for* is better than telling people *how* they're allowed to use Photoshop.
And yes, the Photoshop comp is less about image enhancement and more about image manipulation. The distinguishing factor is this: It isn't a photography competition like the PMC and the 2.0.
Not to mention that some tools which are technically not allowed, an identical effect can be achieved within the rules, just in a roundabout sort of way. For example, in the past I've used a Threshold filter in CS5 on a new layer to isolate the highlights in the image (say, the sun shining on the bonnet of my car), then apply a gaussian blur and set the layer blending to "Screen" or "Lighten" to enhance the highlights and add a bit of a soft glow to them.
The Threshold filter isn't in the list of allowed tools, but I can achieve the exact same effect by desaturating and then pumping up the contrast to extreme levels.
Anyhow, my point is, nailing down what you're allowed to use Photoshop *for* is better than telling people *how* they're allowed to use Photoshop.
And yes, the Photoshop comp is less about image enhancement and more about image manipulation. The distinguishing factor is this: It isn't a photography competition like the PMC and the 2.0.
- 142
- Liverpool
one think I think for the 2.0 is to encourage the use of photoshop more, I see a few entries where the user states they didn't use out of game editing and while the pictures aren't terrible they often don't stand a chance (IMO) against the other entries.
Regarding rules You will always get those that only read the parts of rules they like, maybe try to make them more 'appealing to read' by grouping similar rules between line breaks.
maybe just make the important words bold:
One entry per user. It must be your own work, and never previously used in a comp.
Mark your FINAL ENTRY clearly, with red text.
etc etc
removing the tools may help as it seems most people don't really go outside of the allowed tools restrictions. and if it's obvious they have then... it's obvious.
The mays and may nots pretty much resrict tools also
Maybe the most important rules summarised at the end of the first post;
Theme, cars allowed, locations allowed and preview size...
Regarding rules You will always get those that only read the parts of rules they like, maybe try to make them more 'appealing to read' by grouping similar rules between line breaks.
maybe just make the important words bold:
One entry per user. It must be your own work, and never previously used in a comp.
Mark your FINAL ENTRY clearly, with red text.
etc etc
removing the tools may help as it seems most people don't really go outside of the allowed tools restrictions. and if it's obvious they have then... it's obvious.
The mays and may nots pretty much resrict tools also
Maybe the most important rules summarised at the end of the first post;
Theme, cars allowed, locations allowed and preview size...
- 1,246
- belgium
- bertvw
Indeed revolution, you've got it nailed there!
Thannks for the clear viewpoint and explanations guys!
I sure shall stick to 2.0, too noobie on the harder parts.
but like you said Revolution, it's possible to achieve whatever you want in a way you want, so that tools restricition needs to drop probably.
Looking like a nice future is heading towards this section, good work Slipz!👍
Thannks for the clear viewpoint and explanations guys!
I sure shall stick to 2.0, too noobie on the harder parts.
but like you said Revolution, it's possible to achieve whatever you want in a way you want, so that tools restricition needs to drop probably.
Looking like a nice future is heading towards this section, good work Slipz!👍
- 4,387
- Lisboa
Totally agree with the tool list removal, if that doesn't interfere with the competition interest. I think there has to be more thought to it, to ensure that the rules don't go beyond image enhancements and I agree that there should be a further discussion about rules in concrete, but Slip, to help you with the wording and what not, you need to stipulate first, where you want to take the competition. Maintain as it is with new wording?; limiting to image enhancements and adjustments?; what about artistic filters?.
a Trico Pro, noting against you, but I find writing in red quite offensive. Is like sending someone to a pile of you know what.
a Trico Pro, noting against you, but I find writing in red quite offensive. Is like sending someone to a pile of you know what.
- 212
- gtsomething
Well, certain tools can be removed, but certain things like clone stamp and text tool should...be mentioned somewhere to say that they can be used to remove jaggies and add personal signatures, cause personally if I read the rules for the first time, being a novice photoshopper, I would be confused as to how to remove jaggies if there wasn't a list of tools allowed.
- 142
- Liverpool
The removal of the list of tools isn't to rule them out it's to make the rules seem more readable...
The list of tools would be/is a little redundant with a list of do's and don't to photographs.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Exactly. I feel the current Editing section is filled with redundancies. To streamline it and make it less intimidating to those who aren't comfortable with Photoshop or other similar programs, I'd like to see some changes made, and so I'm asking here .
Nick, there seems to be some confusion, as I've never been interested on taking 2.0 in any other direction than the one it currently is on. I just want to make that particular one more concise to members. As best as I can sum it up right now, I feel like 2.0 should be about getting the best possible out of a GT5 shot, while still keeping it a GT5 shot. Enhancing and optimizing what we're given, but not really adding or subtracting portions of the image.
Basically, cleaning up things like jaggies and murky textures is encouraged. Changing the general tone of the image with things like Colour Balance or photo filters is alright. Dodging and Burning should be cool too. Even adding motion to Photo Travel shots is alright by me. Making changes to the car's body, not okay. It's an odd balance, I suppose, but basically, I want 90% of the editing allowed to be fairly quick and easy things, to not scare away those who are less experienced with photo editing.
Make sense? Or am I rambling again?
.Nick, there seems to be some confusion, as I've never been interested on taking 2.0 in any other direction than the one it currently is on. I just want to make that particular one more concise to members. As best as I can sum it up right now, I feel like 2.0 should be about getting the best possible out of a GT5 shot, while still keeping it a GT5 shot. Enhancing and optimizing what we're given, but not really adding or subtracting portions of the image.
Basically, cleaning up things like jaggies and murky textures is encouraged. Changing the general tone of the image with things like Colour Balance or photo filters is alright. Dodging and Burning should be cool too. Even adding motion to Photo Travel shots is alright by me. Making changes to the car's body, not okay. It's an odd balance, I suppose, but basically, I want 90% of the editing allowed to be fairly quick and easy things, to not scare away those who are less experienced with photo editing.
Make sense? Or am I rambling again?
- 1,874
- France
- GTP_Fido_le_muet
I think the list should just mention what can be done to a picture, not what tools are allowed. It would be clearer to everyone, especially people who use other editing programs than Photoshop.
But I agree with what you want 2.0 to be SlipZ
But I agree with what you want 2.0 to be SlipZ
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- 107
- ejronin
I disagree. Sometimes the difference in a tool like the shape tool and the lasso tool is the difference between a flat crowbar and a hammer: Though they each have a different main application, I can pull nails equally efficiently with either. Telling me what tools to use does not tell me HOW to fix something.
"You can use:
a jack
a screwdriver
an ice pick
pair of forceps
a can of spray lubricant
a bucket
and a wrench
You may not use
a pneumatic lift
a hammer
a torch
Channel locks
a tire iron
a box
a saw"
ok... am I changing the oil? Maybe I'm changing a tire? Airhose? adding cat-back exhaust?
It's just a list and doesn't truly define application. Quality of work is not defined by tools - a users ability with the camera is inversely proportional to the amount of work needed in photoshop; you can't fix bad composition in photoshop no matter how good you are with it.
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- 1,436
Exactly. I feel the current Editing section is filled with redundancies. To streamline it and make it less intimidating to those who aren't comfortable with Photoshop or other similar programs, I'd like to see some changes made, and so I'm asking here
Nick, there seems to be some confusion, as I've never been interested on taking 2.0 in any other direction than the one it currently is on. I just want to make that particular one more concise to members. As best as I can sum it up right now, I feel like 2.0 should be about getting the best possible out of a GT5 shot, while still keeping it a GT5 shot. Enhancing and optimizing what we're given, but not really adding or subtracting portions of the image.
Basically, cleaning up things like jaggies and murky textures is encouraged. Changing the general tone of the image with things like Colour Balance or photo filters is alright. Dodging and Burning should be cool too. Even adding motion to Photo Travel shots is alright by me. Making changes to the car's body, not okay. It's an odd balance, I suppose, but basically, I want 90% of the editing allowed to be fairly quick and easy things, to not scare away those who are less experienced with photo editing.
Make sense? Or am I rambling again?
I completely agree with this. Eliminate the tools list since they all have different names in different programs anyway. Make clear that things like filters, blurs, gradients, and playing with the colors/contrast are all encouraged and allowed. In other words, "enhancements" to make the pictures more beautiful. Adding or removing the objects in the original picture is NOT allowed. This would include adding/removing cars, parts of cars, objects in the background, removing clouds, etc. Smoothing out jaggies, blurring textures, or even adding motion blur or other creative uses of simple tools is fine, so long as it doesn't change the fundamental objects depicted in the original image.
I'm not sure of the best way to word it, and we may get more "am I allowed to do this" questions, but I doubt we'll see as many people who don't bother to read any of the rules at all. I think it's a case of "pick your poison", and if it makes more people follow the major rules, I think it's worth it.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
This week's 2.0 brings with it a new Editing section
Anything I miss? I just added in the bullet about Sharpening: somehow forgot it in my original draft.
The problem I fear we might run into is there's a gray area to be had with the line about altering the geometry of an image... since cleaning up jaggies is technically doing that. That's getting nit-picky though.
Anything I miss? I just added in the bullet about Sharpening: somehow forgot it in my original draft.
The problem I fear we might run into is there's a gray area to be had with the line about altering the geometry of an image... since cleaning up jaggies is technically doing that. That's getting nit-picky though.
- 331
- possum_eaterz
What happened to the week 8 photomode competitions? They were there then they got deleted and there is not a poll on them.....
- 325
- Afghanistan
- 331
- possum_eaterz
Good, I wanted to see if I made the poll.
👍- 136
- Stakin
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