PMC Discussion Thread: 3.0 Interest Check

[ziggedzag]

I think that as long as a past winner is picking the poll, there will always be the random shots that make it in that others probably wouldn't have chosen. It's personal, people have different tastes and that is a good thing.

There may be a case however, when a run-off would be beneficial in picking the best shot. Take this weeks vote going on in the Photomode 14 comp (Italian). While it is possible that it could end in a tie, the likelihood is that it won't. It does make you wonder though, would the presumed winner had won if there was a run off of the top 4-5 pics? After all, 102 votes are currently going to other pics compared to the 60 votes of the top 4.

Would it be too difficult in high participation (or all) comps to have the standard vote Sunday through Thursday, then have a run-off Friday through the following Sunday? I don't know maybe it would be, but perhaps it's worth looking into if we want the best photo to win.

 

[gtuned]

I jsut thought of an idea for a special week. Seeing as we're coming up on Week 20, have it be Invitational only, For the 2.0 and PMC i think it'd be interesting.
And maybe for the competitions now, not only have the Winner of previous week pick the entries, but during the final poll also have a judges choice, like the better people from the forums be the judges along with the previous winner.

 

[ChaosStar79]

I jsut thought of an idea for a special week. Seeing as we're coming up on Week 20, have it be Invitational only, For the 2.0 and PMC i think it'd be interesting.
And maybe for the competitions now, not only have the Winner of previous week pick the entries, but during the final poll also have a judges choice, like the better people from the forums be the judges along with the previous winner.

I really like the judges choice idea. 👍👍

 

[Moglet]

Will people stop entering, choosing to focus their creative abilities elsewhere feeling that they would be wasting their time trying to come up with something original that would be overlooked by many for yet another picture of a Ferrari going round a corner?

This is already happening. I know of several members who are either considering not bothering to enter anymore, or have already pulled out. What most people see as artistic and aesthetically pleasing in the galleries always seems to bomb when it comes to the polls. The original shots tend to get left behind a little.

We will see how it changes over time though.

 

[Forgetful]

There are also people who are considering/have dropped out because of the attitude some people have displayed over not making the poll, or the reactions to pics that have the most votes.

My suggestion, rather than an exclusive contest for the 'elites' (or is that 'entitled'?), why not have a comp where the poll entries are chosen by a select few people who have displayed a real talent, that the public can then vote on?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

So it'd be the same as the current setup, but instead of leaving judging to a single person, we'd have to rely on numerous people to settle on the poll entries?



I can see the benefits (as it's more than one person, there's less grounds to complain about personal favourites/preferences), but it doesn't erase potential favouritism, and could delay decisions. For example, say there's 4 judges: they need to all be aware of the entries available before choosing the poll, so they can all decide on said poll. They would all need to be on at roughly the same time every Sunday to discuss these things - it's that or close the comp a day or more earlier each week to allow for the judges to pick the poll.

I do wish there was a way to eliminate the whinging, or at least minimize it... but every method will have some problems. What is encouraging is that while there's the occasional week where a lot of people take issue with an "unworthy" shot leading the polls... there's still plenty of weeks where images with artistic originality, and/or are aesthetically pleasing, that take the crown.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

One thing I don't understand, is why, a discussion of an image that was leading a poll (with public vote) as now arisen to a discussion of Judge choice. What probabilities the images, not chosen by the Judge, would have in winning a poll (if they got into one and if indeed, the Judge is actually choosing the best entries (in his opinion))? Pretty low I would say - 1/100 - 1/1000....

As SlipZ said, and well, having a handful of Judges would delay decisions - imagine 4 Judges sending down they're top 30 images, for example. Most of the images would get some agreement, but how would we resolve the other ones? The ones that only one or two of the four judges have chosen? - Also, nothing guarantees the whining would go away and I doubt it will.
Also, and pretty important, who would the selected Judges be? Whats are the requirements for being one? Having a degree in Photography and Arts? How can you determine who is and who is not worthy of being a Judge? People who have shown real talent you say, but how can you define that? There are people who have shown it and have no regard about photography or photography rules, as well as people who say they are photographers in real life and know photography rules, yet their work is nothing special nor original. 👍

To conclude, @ Gtuned, and speaking in behalf of the PMC, invitational only would and is totally against the spirit of the competition, so it won't happen.

 

[gtuned]

I figured that, just an idea, I tend to have stupid ones (ex. 90's Camry wagon with a Veyron SS W16)

 

[Traviizter]

Meh, I did enter some PMCs but recently I haven't really had the motivation to enter since I don't ever really get recognition (not like my stuff is good anyway ) . Not asking for sympathy, just giving you a view from a GTP member's perspective.

 

[Jason_B]

I think that as long as a past winner is picking the poll, there will always be the random shots that make it in that others probably wouldn't have chosen. It's personal, people have different tastes and that is a good thing.

Exactly.

I end up killing myself thinking a tight artistic shot will obscure the mandated background so I go with a wide angle shot that distinguishes everything. Some people want to see both the background and the foreground, others do not.

Every week it's different.

 

[BonkMeister]

I saw someone mention the word 'tournament' somewhere and that started me thinking, isnt it an idea of having a tournament or league every month/every two months? With a round under PMC rules, a round under 2.0 rules, a CCCL round and maybe a HDR round? That way only people who are truly allround have a chance of winning.

If anyone thinks it's a proper idea, then there could be two kinds of setups (league or tournament):

Tournament:
Week 1: Judge picks a theme and one set of rules (PMC, 2.0, CCCL or HDR). Eventually 16 entries will be picked to head into the polls (possibly even by multiple judges).
Week 2: Judge picks another theme and a set of the remaining rules. Of the 16 still in the tournament, the 8 with the most votes will make it into the polls of the second week.
Week 3: Same story, judge picks a new theme and one of the two remaining sets of rules, from the 8 contestants, the 4 with the most votes in the previous poll will make it into these polls.
Week 4: New theme, last remaining set of rules. The two most populair entries advance to the final poll, the winner of that poll wins the tournament.

or the League:
I have to think about how to select the amount of people that can enter the league/polls if there are too many entries to fit into the poll. Maybe start out with a selection week, with a certain theme and have multiple rules. The best combined entries, picked by a group of judges can enter the league.

But then, once you're inside the league, you can enter every week. Like the tournament, every week/round has a new theme and different set of rules (PMC, 2.0, CCCL and HDR) and afterwards everyone will go to the polls. But every week the amount of votes will be added to that of the previous week and eventually the one with the most votes combined will win the tournament.

Ofcourse there is a lot to work out about these concepts, but this is just a proposal, curious to find out people's opinions on a setup like this, if everyone hates it, there is no point on putting effort in setting this up, if many are interested and the moderators here also see something good in it, then the idea sure can get into shape more.

Just curious about your guys thoughts on just the general idea (ofcourse the details can be discussed later).

 

[Nicknamealguem]

The so call leagues are what the current PMC, 2.0, CCCL and PS are. Thing is, to have a proper league (like the WRS, for example) people would probably have to enter every week. With this type of competitions, we are able, not only to maintain a sort of weekly "league" format, but people won't need to enter every week.

About the tournament, or a knock-out style competition, it's being taken care of and will arrive somewhere soon.
It will be similar to the GT4 Photomode Tournament, with the two most important PMC and 2.0 style rules. There will be a great amount of themes, some more strict, like CCCL style and others less strict. I can't go into much details about the GT5 version of it, but, if you want to know more, just search for the Photomode Tournament in GT4 Competitions Forum. I can say, it's one of the funniest and challenging competition of Photomode Competitions.


One thing I don't understand is the instant surge and interest of HDR for the competitions. I have to say, I have quite a mix of feelings about the incorporation of HDR in competitions. Yes, you can get some amazing results and prevent wash-out images, but, in an attempt to make some competitions leveled and open to all, at least in my view it is discouraged. But, you never know, there has been some discussion about HDR back-channel, it may be incorporated or not, into the current 2.0. Even though, I think the current PS Competition allows HDR, since there is no limitation in the use of any editing program.

 

[benda18]

This is already happening. I know of several members who are either considering not bothering to enter anymore, or have already pulled out. What most people see as artistic and aesthetically pleasing in the galleries always seems to bomb when it comes to the polls. The original shots tend to get left behind a little.

We will see how it changes over time though.

I don't understand why everyone is worried about their e-cred. if you win, great. if you don't, no big deal. part of the enjoyment is seeing all the great ideas everyone has and learning from each other.

it feels good to make a poll, but i'm not gonna lose sleep over it if I don't.

 

[Benmastaw00t]

I don't understand why everyone is worried about their e-cred. if you win, great. if you don't, no big deal. part of the enjoyment is seeing all the great ideas everyone has and learning from each other.

it feels good to make a poll, but i'm not gonna lose sleep over it if I don't.

It is not e-cred artists are after. We seek to be recognized in the world of art as being creative, original and sometimes against the current. It doesn't matter if the medium is a camera or a PS3. Art is art, be it objective or subjective.

I do think there are people who vote in polls who don't quite understand the effort taken to create a great photograph, to put lightly. Rather, they vote for a photograph that is nice and shiny, sick bro, tight, etc. if you are picking up what I am dropping down.

Because of this, I will be taking a few weeks off competitions to seek satisfaction in myself instead of through others.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I understand the point you're getting at, Ben, and it's a valid one... but it's the nature of the beast WRT the comps, since we allow public voting and a lot of people vote for the more eye-catching images. Though that doesn't always mean the winning image is lacking in any artistic sense; Moglet's shot of the Castrol Supra's wing this week, for example, stands out (at least, to me), and it still satisfies the artistic side. The trick with the comps has always been finding a nice balance between appealing to both sides of the divide.

Back in GT4, I had an entry I was incredibly proud of (Wayback Playback time, 4th entry), but I lost out to a shot that I felt was more about eye-catching than strictly following the theme (though the 7 covers the base of a minimalist car). It was disappointing, but it's bound to happen. Funny to look back and see how little votes were available each week!

Some people are really focused on winning, even with what little that entails, and other people enjoy the challenge each week. Others still occupy both camps. We'll never please everybody, but it always feels like the negativity outweighs the positivity just because the former is so vocal...

 

[atlop]

Lol at those memories! I remember being so proud of my shot in that poll (the first one). Sure took a lot of time to compose that. I don't think it would get me very far in today's comps.

I think today we have not only more entrants but, on average, also better ones. May I suggest a reason? The people of the internets have simply become better with photography. When GT4 was released a digital camera was a much more new thing than it is today. I for example did not have any camera when I got my copy of GT4, today I have several. I don't have any statistics but I would guess that majority of all photos in history have been taken in the last couple of years. And when people shoot why would they not get better with it?

If you look at the PMC poll that is going on today there are IMO several shots that are pretty much perfect in execution. And I personally have not felt that a clearly inferior shot would have won in these polls. If someone leaves these comps frustrated could it be that ultimately they are frustrated because there simply are so many good photographers here that it's difficult to stand out?

 

[nismo33]

How about the winner of competition chooses the pics that makes the next weeks poll??? Seems a lot of pics that make the poll aren't even getting voted on so although the 1 judge may like a picture & submit it to poll, quite obviously nobody else likes it

 

[benda18]

Is there any way we can talk about raising the maximum 500 pixel dimension restriction for entries? I know you can post a link to the large photos, but it's not like we're still in the dialup era. I'm not asking for the lifting of the restriction completley; even 800px would be a huge improvement.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

How about the winner of competition chooses the pics that makes the next weeks poll??? Seems a lot of pics that make the poll aren't even getting voted on so although the 1 judge may like a picture & submit it to poll, quite obviously nobody else likes it

Hmmm, the winner of the competition chooses next week poll, it's been like this forever, since first week Photomode Competition back in GT4 era.

Is there any way we can talk about raising the maximum 500 pixel dimension restriction for entries? I know you can post a link to the large photos, but it's not like we're still in the dialup era. I'm not asking for the lifting of the restriction completley; even 800px would be a huge improvement.

The 500px preview maximum has been lifted from the 400px max. we had in GT4. I think, it is the perfect size for previews, since you can resize to exactly 500px in most image hosts and it looks great, poll and competition wise. Besides, you can link them to your full size and have it as big as you want.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

There still are people around here who use lower-speed internet, but the preview size is handy for another reason, going in the opposite direction to new technology; a lot more people browse from their smartphones or netbooks these days, and a lower-resolution preview giving people the option to view the full-size covers all bases. Besides, if you have a fast connection, clicking to view the full-size only takes a second anyways .

 

[nismo33]

Hmmm, the winner of the competition chooses next week poll, it's been like this forever, since first week Photomode Competition back in GT4 era.

You learn something new every day. So you've been doing these photo comps for what..... 5 or 6 yrs at least then. Damn i hope i get bored with it long before that happens to me

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, it does say in each comp's thread that the winners pick their theme's poll entries...

There's been a bunch of hosts over the years, so Nick hasn't been doing it quite that long . Slick6 started the first competition off back in 2005, and some others cropped up shortly after (a Rally one, A magazine cover, and a Photoshop edition). 2.0 started up a bit later by treefingers. A few months in, he also started something called the Manufacturers Comp; I took the reigns a handful of weeks in, and when we realized we would run out of themes fast by always having two makes face off, it changed names to Head2Head, which has now morphed into a poll style available to any of them. There was also an Unedited one (which still runs over in the GT4 section, thanks to SVX).

PMC allowed very light post-game editing (brightness/contrast/gamma, cropping, and resizing), but Nick and I discussed leaving it to just proportional resizing for GT5, leveling the playing field that much more. I was still just a member when we started planning for their return with GT5's release, so I had messaged Jordan asking about using GTP's logo, and tying them into the site as "Official", since Joey's GTP Star In A Reasonably Priced Car had just got the go-ahead. Funnily enough, Jordan asked me to join the staff, which makes running the comps and keeping them organized that much easier .

...and that is your first lesson in GTP Photo Comp History 101

 

[Nicknamealguem]

You learn something new every day. So you've been doing these photo comps for what..... 5 or 6 yrs at least then. Damn i hope i get bored with it long before that happens to me

Not that long. Probably 3 years, if I'm not mistaken. I've not been in GT4 since the beginning, I just happen to know. 👍
When you like to host and organize competitions, you don't get bored.

Now that I think of, 3 years it's allot, and I think SlipZ as been hosting for a longer time than I have.

Edit: Tree'd.

 

[nismo33]

Thank you very much i honestly didn't know the winners pick the entry even though as you say it says it in the 1st post
Loved the history lesson

 

[Pebb]

I don't know, if it would be best to take a break from the contests. Because it seems, I cannot win anymore competitions.


My final thoughts:

At the end of the day, it is the taking part that counts. However, I would still like to win another contest.

 

[Jason_B]

Has anyone had "cannot open" error messages bringing photos directly into Photoshop?

 

[BonkMeister]

Has anyone had "cannot open" error messages bringing photos directly into Photoshop?

Not 'cannot open' messages, but when I'm loading them into PS, it says 'the document contains PS data which appears to be damaged, continue and ignore the photoshop data?' and that message doesnt appear with other pics.

Though when I click ok on that message, I still can do everything I want to the picture.

 

[Jason_B]

Not 'cannot open' messages, but when I'm loading them into PS, it says 'the document contains PS data which appears to be damaged, continue and ignore the photoshop data?' and that message doesnt appear with other pics.

Though when I click ok on that message, I still can do everything I want to the picture.

I was getting end of file errors. I ended up converting the files to bmp using IrfanView, then save them back when I'm done in Photoshop. It's a whole new world again.

 

[stpatty]

Are we getting a Week 19 PMC?

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Are we getting a Week 19 PMC?

I wanted to ask same question...