[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

The party nominees are named. Now who do you support?

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  • Poll closed .
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squadops
The point was no one at the time of the country being formed considered a needed for a law for possession per say, the law was about protection from the government.
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What is that sentence trying to say? Is anyone able to make any sense out of it?

"Possession per say", is that some sort of First Amendment thing? (just one of the areas of confusion)
 
Johnnypenso
Any possibility of getting back on topic?
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We are on topic, all of what's being talked about here stems into the formulation of ideals on what people want to see as a President or elected official. American Politics and American History and issues and on and on all coincide. I don't see how we're off topic unless France was being talked about in the last few pages?
 
BobK
What is that sentence trying to say? Is anyone able to make any sense out of it?

"Possession per say", is that some sort of First Amendment thing? (just one of the areas of confusion)
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The laws of the constitution are there to protect the people from a tyrannical government, the simple right to bear arms for any other reason was a given.

I think you're just poking a bit of fun at me though :P

............


Since our tax season ended yesterday, I wonder how many of our local democratic socialists checked that little box volunteering to pay extra to the IRS.
 
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squadops
The laws of the constitution are there to protect the people from a tyrannical government, the simple right to bear arms for any other reason was a given.

I think you're just poking a bit of fun at me though :P
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No, I honestly don't know what "possession per say" is supposed to mean.
 
Ladies and Gentleman, I present to you Rosa Luxemburg a one time member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany among other things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg

My favorite writing of hers is a pamphlet called Reform or Revolution.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/index.htm

Let us have a look at this shall we?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/12/20-alt.htm

To this end all social wealth the land and all that it produces, the factories and the mills must be taken from their exploiting owners to become the common property of the entire people. It thus becomes the foremost duty of a revolutionary government of the working class to issue a series of decrees making all important instruments of production national property and placing them under social control.
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I'm sure you guys will still want to argue about exactly what social democracy is, but as I said many times, I know exactly what it is. And We've seen its effects for well over 100 years. Still think we have not learned?

BobK
No, I honestly don't know what "possession per say" is supposed to mean.
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Now you do, besides I explained it already once a few posts before that one.
 
BobK
No, I honestly don't know what "possession per say" is supposed to mean.
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I think he means "per se" rather than "per say", not sure that helps :)

squadops
I'm sure you guys will still want to argue about exactly what social democracy is, but as I said many times, I know exactly what it is.
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Not too much, it's getting off-topic. You're quoting a Marxist thinker though, that's at odds with most understandings of how a social democracy should evolve.
 
If Bernie is not a democratic socialist than he should not call himself one, you can call her a Marxist all you want, it's the same damn thing, that's what I've been trying to tell you guys. Social Democracy is nothing more than a gateway drug.

We'd be better off getting stoned :lol:

In a Socialist state of society all this will be changed. Private ownership of the means of production and subsistence must disappear. Production will be carried on not for the enrichment of the individual but solely for the creation of a supply of commodities sufficient to supply the wants and needs of the working class. Accordingly factories, mills and farms must be operated upon an entirely new basis, from a wholly different point of view.
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squadops
If Bernie is not a democratic socialist than he should not call himself one, you can call her a Marxist all you want, it's the same damn thing, that's what I've been trying to tell you guys. Social Democracy is nothing more than a gateway drug.

We'd be better off getting stoned :lol:
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No it's not the same damn thing. Did you miss the phrase "means of production" in the passages you've cited? As in, "social ownership of the means of production"? That phrase refers to seizing factories and other production facilities from their owners and repurposing them for socially owned and operated production. Bernie Sanders or other social democratic politicians do not support this and do not oppose private ownership of the means of production.

That's a big deal, social ownership of the means of production is literally what makes socialism socialism. Raising taxes to pay for social programs like education or health care is not the same thing as outlawing private enterprise and seizing the means of production. Canada, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and the majority of Europe have been doing these things for decades without becoming the Soviet Union.

If Bernie Sanders is the gateway drug to becoming the Soviet Union, you're already hooked. Public schools, social security, medicare, welfare, disability benefits, veteran's benefits, GI Bill, food stamps, public housing, the list goes on. There's already dozens of these programs yet you'd have me believe health care and university will turn the USA into the USSRA.
 
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Glad you asked. Then he is not a social democrat and he should really stop saying it.

I believe he is a socialist however and his support of insane regulations solidifies that to me. I don't care what other countries do, Is he running for their government seats?

All that you have listed I am vehemently opposed to, and yes they will lead to socialism as there will be no choice. The tax dollars of the rich cannot afford to keep paying for it. That is when you will see production being taken over, rations etc. Not to mention just how much freedom infringement he is calling for.

Call me crazy all you want. What I am really telling you are the reasons the U.S. will not even let him past the primaries.

BTW, I found this stuff interesting on a side note and also in case some smarty comes in and says he doesn't own that sort of property.

http://moneynation.com/bernie-sanders-net-worth/

We estimate Bernie Sanders’ net worth at $528,014. That’s 7.8 times larger than the net worth of the median American family.
However, since all senator net worths are estimates, it’s possible Bernie Sanders’ net worth is much lower. In fact, Bernie Sanders’
net worth could be as low as $222,026. That’s 3.3 times larger than the net worth of the median American family. Finally, the Bernie
Sanders net worth average of $528,014 is about twice the net worth of others in his age group.

The table below shows the total assets reported by Senator Sanders in his required annual financial disclosure forms from August 2015. Below the table, we’ve listed other, non-reported assets, as well as estimated debt.

Bernie Sanders Net Worth From Assets
Average Bernie Sanders Net Worth Asset Value $473,015
Bernie Sanders Asset Asset Type Min Value Max Value
Spouse Retirement Plan Retirement Plans Undisclosed Undisclosed
CREF Stock Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
CREF Growth Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
CREF Equity Index Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
CREF Global Equities Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
TIAA Access Mid-Cap Growth (T$) Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
TIAA Real Estate Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
CREF Bond Market Account Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
CREF Inflation-Linked Bond Account Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
CREF Social Choice Account Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
TIAA Traditional Annuity Mutual Funds $50,001 $100,000
Bernie Sanders' Spouse Retirement Plan 2 Retirement Plans Undisclosed Undisclosed
Valic Core Equity Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC SOCIALLY RESP Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC STOCK INDEX$1,001 Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC MID CAP INDEX Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC SMALL CAP Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC SMALL CAP INDEX Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC SOCIAL AWARENESS Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC INT'L EQUITIES Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC SCIENCE & TECH Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC AGGR GROWTH LI Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC ASSET ALLOC Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC MOD GROWTH LI Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LI FGRO Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LI FMOD Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC GOVT SECURITIES Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC INTL GOVT BOND Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
VALIC STRATEGIC BOND Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LT TRSRY Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LT INV GRADE Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC MONEY MARKET II Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
Peoples United Bank IRA Retirement Plans Undisclosed Undisclosed
Bernie Sanders' Pension Retirement Plans Unascertainable Unascertainable
Totals $187,026 $759,004
Average Bernie Sanders total asset value: $473,015
 
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squadops
Glad you asked. Then he is not a social democrat and he should really stop saying it.

I believe he is a socialist however and his support of insane regulations solidifies that to me.

All that you have listed I am vehemently opposed to, and yes they will lead to socialism as there will be no choice. The tax dollars of the rich cannot afford to keep paying for it. That is when you will see production being taken over, rations etc. Not to mention just how much freedom infringement he is calling for.

Call me crazy all you want. What I am really telling you are the reasons the U.S. will not even let him past the primaries.

BTW, I found this stuff interesting on a side note and also in case some smarty comes in and says he doesn't own that sort of property.

http://moneynation.com/bernie-sanders-net-worth/

We estimate Bernie Sanders’ net worth at $528,014. That’s 7.8 times larger than the net worth of the median American family.
However, since all senator net worths are estimates, it’s possible Bernie Sanders’ net worth is much lower. In fact, Bernie Sanders’
net worth could be as low as $222,026. That’s 3.3 times larger than the net worth of the median American family. Finally, the Bernie
Sanders net worth average of $528,014 is about twice the net worth of others in his age group.

The table below shows the total assets reported by Senator Sanders in his required annual financial disclosure forms from August 2015. Below the table, we’ve listed other, non-reported assets, as well as estimated debt.

Bernie Sanders Net Worth From Assets
Average Bernie Sanders Net Worth Asset Value $473,015
Bernie Sanders Asset Asset Type Min Value Max Value
Spouse Retirement Plan Retirement Plans Undisclosed Undisclosed
CREF Stock Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
CREF Growth Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
CREF Equity Index Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
CREF Global Equities Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
TIAA Access Mid-Cap Growth (T$) Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
TIAA Real Estate Account Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
CREF Bond Market Account Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
CREF Inflation-Linked Bond Account Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
CREF Social Choice Account Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
TIAA Traditional Annuity Mutual Funds $50,001 $100,000
Bernie Sanders' Spouse Retirement Plan 2 Retirement Plans Undisclosed Undisclosed
Valic Core Equity Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC SOCIALLY RESP Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC STOCK INDEX$1,001 Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC MID CAP INDEX Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC SMALL CAP Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC SMALL CAP INDEX Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC SOCIAL AWARENESS Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC INT'L EQUITIES Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC SCIENCE & TECH Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC AGGR GROWTH LI Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC ASSET ALLOC Mutual Funds $15,001 $50,000
VALIC MOD GROWTH LI Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LI FGRO Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LI FMOD Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC GOVT SECURITIES Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC INTL GOVT BOND Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
VALIC STRATEGIC BOND Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LT TRSRY Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VNGRD LT INV GRADE Mutual Funds $1,001 $15,000
VALIC MONEY MARKET II Mutual Funds $0 $1,001
Peoples United Bank IRA Retirement Plans Undisclosed Undisclosed
Bernie Sanders' Pension Retirement Plans Unascertainable Unascertainable
Totals $187,026 $759,004
Average Bernie Sanders total asset value: $473,015
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http://heavy.com/news/2016/03/berni...come-debt-wife-welfare-president-meme-photos/
 
What a load of crap that is getting very old. Did I not say I was looking for his portfolio to show that he owned the sort of property that socialists don't believe should be owned?

You guys are tired with that argument already 👎
 
I know I am tired and have only been skimming through the many pages of whats been said and what I am getting from it is that @squadops is calling out Bernie for not being a socialist while calling him a socialist?

Sorry but its hard for me too keep up with these opinion/news threads sometimes and when pages upon pages are posted in less than a day it can be quite overwellming.
 
I am saying that he is a true socialist trying to hide behind some 1/2 arsed term 'democratic socialist' as if it's something in between.

I am saying that he is full of crap and the U.S. realizes that we do not want him in office, even if it means that the democratic party has to save it's voter base from itself by denying him the primary.

I am saying I am very glad that we have electoral colleges to keep his sort out, it's a sort of check and balance and it's set in place because we live in a constitutional republic and not a socialist democracy.

I am saying thank God that we have our constitution.

Do I need to go on? I'm sure a bunch more smart ass's will come in and claim not to understand me :lol:
 
squadops
, and yes they will lead to socialism as there will be no choice. The tax dollars of the rich cannot afford to keep paying for it. That is when you will see production being taken over, rations etc. Not to mention just how much freedom infringement he is calling for.
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Social Security in the US started in 1935. The government must be ready to start the socialist takeover anyday now...

Also FYI you already spend a higher percentage of GDP on social programs than the People's Socialist Dominion of Canada so we're building a wall to keep you commies out.
 
squadops
I am saying that he is full of crap and the U.S. realizes that we do not want him in office, even if it means that the democratic party has to save it's voter base from itself by denying him the primary.

I am saying I am very glad that we have electoral colleges to keep his sort out, it's a sort of check and balance and it's set in place because we live in a constitutional republic and not a socialist democracy.
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The U.S hasn't decided anything. The Democratic Party has yet to decide whether they want him in. He is still very popular amoung voters and not giving the people the politician they want is not going to fair them well in a popularity contest which is really what this whole saga has been.

As a Canadian who is used to having 3-5 political partys to choose from when there is an election I would love too see Bernie vs Hilary vs Trump vs Cruz.

You can't tell the people what they want.
 
squadops
I am saying that he is a true socialist trying to hide behind some 1/2 arsed term 'democratic socialist' as if it's something in between.

I am saying that he is full of crap and the U.S. realizes that we do not want him in office, even if it means that the democratic party has to save it's voter base from itself by denying him the primary.

I am saying I am very glad that we have electoral colleges to keep his sort out, it's a sort of check and balance and it's set in place because we live in a constitutional republic and not a socialist democracy.

I am saying thank God that we have our constitution.

Do I need to go on? I'm sure a bunch more smart ass's will come in and claim not to understand me :lol:
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I think it's pretty clear you just hate the guy because he's so popular and actually has a chance at pulling this one out. Despite your opinion that he has zero chance, which you are absolutely incorrect on.
 
Keep trying guys. Why don't you enlighten me @Noob616 about 1935 and what the original idea behind it was, why don't you teach me about FDR? What do you think, I'm some sort of ignorant slob?

Mark my words @Turbotwin01 he will not make it past the DNC.

Let me go somewhere you guys will call left field and of no value, bare with me a moment. First off Canada wouldn't be squat without the U.S., Second off remind me who the integral country was who won WWII, third off, let me know who keeps the world markets afloat, fourth off tell me all about innovation in fields such as medicine, 5th off, I could go all day long. MURICA for the win :P

So boring it is to simply see butt hurt folks that don't even live in the U.S. complain about my harsh words regarding Bernie. This is just how simple it is and I have no idea why I need to repeat it over and over, we are a constitutional republic, not any sort of democracy as much as you wish it would be different.

Get over it, if you guys thought about it a second you would realize my candidate is a much better choice but you won't for whatever reason. You guys had a very good chance with Kucinich if you wanted some of your welfare stuff to take hold but for some reason,.. was it Obama? Whatever it was we are just seeing one neocon after the other from either side of the isle.

I can't wait to see all the rips at this post :lol: :cheers:

R1600Turbo
I think it's pretty clear you just hate the guy because he's so popular and actually has a chance at pulling this one out. Despite your opinion that he has zero chance, which you are absolutely incorrect on.
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Nothing could be further from the truth, I do not hate him at all, I hate the idea of him in office, huge difference. And I am right btw, show my any mainstream news article within the past week that doesn't agree with me. Then do the math and if that is not enough try to learn how the DNC works 👍

By your logic Hillary should have won the primary over Obama 8 years ago lol.

Good luck.
 
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The answer is pretty simple. Democratic Socialist is really a code word. Progressives have been using code words and "redefining" the English language for the last 100 years. I know that I am flirting with the AUP here, but 50+ years ago, to cite an example, gay used to be commonly defined as happy. If you don't believe me, just watch old Flintstones cartoons, it is right there in the opening theme. Today, gay is commonly defined as a person who is in a homosexual relationship.

Now how does this apply to Bernie Sanders? To really answer that, we need to look at Hillary Clinton. In an interview with Chris Matthews of MSNBC, she actually fails to explain the definition, in plain English, of what a democratic socialist actually is. Here is video evidence:



How does that prove anything. As @Noob616 kindly pointed out, people left of center back in 1935, when Social Security started, called themselves progressives. It is infectious throughout the Republican and Democrat parties (so much so that Teddy Roosevelt, a progressive himself, ran for office in 1912 as a third party candidate, allowing the election of a real progressive, Woodrow Wilson, to the Presidency), that one had to have progressive values to be elected (as a result, it allowed Democrats complete control of Congress for the next 40 years after FDR passed away nearly unabated.) After Ronald Reagan was elected to office, or sometime thereafter (since I was born during his presidency), progressives adopted the term Liberal. The term has since stuck around until Bernie Sanders got into this race.
 
squadops
And I am right btw, show my any mainstream news article within the past week that doesn't agree with me. Then do the math and if that is not enough try to learn how the DNC works 👍

By your logic Hillary should have won the primary over Obama 8 years ago lol.

Good luck.
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Maybe you should phone him up then and let him know that squadops says he has no chance and that he should just quit. You know, because you seem to know the future and all. The fact that he's still running and hasn't quit proves that someone knows more than you.
 
Lots of people know more than I do. Keep dreaming as I genuinely commend you, I simply have no idea why you are so behind him. It's none of my business of course.

Still looking for a news piece?
 
squadops
Lots of people know more than I do. Keep dreaming as I genuinely commend you, I simply have no idea why you are so behind him. It's none of my business of course.
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And the poll results at the top of this thread mean absolutely nothing. Singling me out again, as usual.

squadops
Still looking for a news piece?
Click to expand...
No need, most of them have the same biased attitude as you, yet they get paid for it.
 
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