[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[Sanji Himura]

That's an utter load of bull:censored: and you know it.

Obama did the same thing. Just take a look at the Affordable Care Act.

 

[Pillo-san]

@squadops

...

You are so in deep water and you know it.

Spending on military, agencies that spies on its own citizens and taking away rights and freedom from its citizens, that seems okey to you. But redirecting those taxes to the public domain is taking away your freedom and not what you want? Talk about face palm.

Like I have said, you seem to be in favour of enslavement of the average citizens domestic and foreign countries as long as words like capitalism and free markets(no tax for companies and responsibility) are used. You are certainly not in favour of freedom at all, because you do not have any.

 

[squadops]

Only I'm for the exact opposite LOL

Deep water no, you have not read a single word I have written, now I'm in favor of slavery?

oh dear all I can say is way out of hand you are. What would you like me to answer exactly?
I have been so clear your smears are wearing thin.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Obama did the same thing. Just take a look at the Affordable Care Act.

How exactly is that "taking away your freedom"?

 

[squadops]

Forcing you to buy a service used or not, and more to the point, paying for another to abuse the said service. You've already complained about it without even realizing it.

 

[Joel]

How exactly is that "taking away your freedom"?

Because he would no longer be free to choose not to pay for those things.

 

[Pillo-san]

Americans that are on right ie republicans are so strange, they do not want that a single dime of theirs should be used to help anyone, but it is ok that the state takes money from them for war and surveillance of its own people. That is what you are saying squadops. And that is not in favour of freedom.

 

[Turbotwin01]

So what happens if you cannot afford healthcare? Is that still "freedom"?

 

[squadops]

So what happens if you cannot afford healthcare? Is that still "freedom"?

Yes.

Americans that are on right ie republicans are so strange, they do not want that a single dime of theirs should be used to help anyone, but it is ok that the state takes money from them for war and surveillance of its own people. That is what you are saying squadops. And that is not in favour of freedom.

It's only ok for the state to take money that I agree to give. Look man, I didn't ask to be born, and I don't recall signing a contract upon arrival. I have as much of a right to my life and my choices as you or some jackass who claims to know what is best for me.

TBH, where do your kind get off? Oh I know, socialism LOL

You do not pay any attention to a word I say, it is quite sad. I'm more than willing to do what I can and take care of those around me, I am not ok with blindly letting a government turn me into a slave so you can decide how my labor should be spent.

 

[Turbotwin01]

So being denied access to something is still freedom. I thought freedom meant you can do anything you want?

Also you seem to like to make a lot of judgements about people who you only know through 1 random picture and a bunch of words on the internet. There is no need to say anyone gets off to socialism.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Because he would no longer be free to choose not to pay for those things.

Well you either pay for health care or you pay stupid amounts out of pocket for medical treatment without it. Either way you're screwed.

So being denied access to something is still freedom. I thought freedom meant you can do anything you want?

Also you seem to like to make a lot of judgements about people who you only know through 1 random picture and a bunch of words on the internet. There is no need to say anyone gets off to socialism.

I'm not even going to waste my time replying to him anymore. The guy has serious issues.

 

[1241Penguin]

So being denied access to something is still freedom.

You cannot be given goods or services for free if it is at someone else's expense, because that means that they, the person providing the goods or services, don't have freedom.

I thought freedom meant you can do anything you want?

Freedom means doing whatever you want so long as it doesn't intrude on another person's wellbeing. See "life, liberty, property."

 

[squadops]

Get used to it, I was born a free man, nothing you say or do to me can change that. Your are of the opinion that I should respect some arbitrary rules set by a bunch of weaklings. I can assure you that will not be the case.

Get over your self righteousness and realize that my life is my own. For the most part in my mind these pius governments and there followers can jump in a fast river 👍

 

[squadops]

I'm not even going to waste my time replying to him anymore. The guy has serious issues.

Sure, it's called intelligence.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Get used to it, I was born a free man, nothing you say or do to me can change that. Your are of the opinion that I should respect some arbitrary rules set by a bunch of weaklings. I can assure you that will not be the case.

Get over your self righteousness and realize that my life is my own. For the most part in my mind these pius governments and there followers can jump in a fast river 👍

Sure, it's called intelligence.

I hope some day someone knocks you off your high horse. And I would love to be there to see it happen.

 

[squadops]

I thought you were going to stop responding to me?

I cannot be knocked off of what I do not ride, you should really consider the high horse you are putting Bernie on and start to consider yourself as worthy.

 

[Sanji Himura]

So being denied access to something is still freedom. I thought freedom meant you can do anything you want?

Now now. Under US law, a hospital is REQUIRED to make payment arrangements if you can not afford emergency care. That is why homeless in this country use the ER as a doctor's office.

 

[Turbotwin01]

You cannot be given goods or services for free if it is at someone else's expense, because that means that they, the person providing the goods or services, don't have freedom.

Freedom means doing whatever you want so long as it doesn't intrude on another person's wellbeing. See "life, liberty, property."

I know nothing can be for free, but wouldn't charging a little more in tax to give everyone affordable/free healthcare technically allow more freedom because that way those who perform health care opperations still have their well being while giving those who couldn't afford it a chance at having it?

Get used to it, I was born a free man, nothing you say or do to me can change that. Your are of the opinion that I should respect some arbitrary rules set by a bunch of weaklings. I can assure you that will not be the case.

Get over your self righteousness and realize that my life is my own. For the most part in my mind these pius governments and there followers can jump in a fast river 👍

Go beat them up in their offices if they are so weak, see how that turns out.

Your life is your own but keep in mind your vote is as good as the next guys and in that case you don't count for much amd neither do I. (I actually don't count for anything since I can't vote due to my age and for your election, nationality. But atleast I know where I stand.)

I get the whole thing about taxes taking away freedom and how politicians can be weak and what not, its that way in my municipality all the time and more often than not I see them spending money on stupid pointless stuff. But somethings need to be limited, you cannot have a full libertarian/anarchic system no matter how much you try.

 

[squadops]

Now now. Under US law, a hospital is REQUIRED to make payment arrangements if you can not afford emergency care. That is why homeless in this country use the ER as a doctor's office.

We gladly pick up the bill anyway, because we are human, we do not need Bernie to teach us that. Sure the guy might have a bill to haunt him but he will never be denied service.

Nope @Turbotwin01, my life is my own. How can you possibly say that just because there is a system before me I need to accept it? Bollox, I have a right to my life just as long as I allow others a right to theirs.

It is so damn simple.

 

[1241Penguin]

I know nothing can be for free, but wouldn't charging a little more in tax to give everyone affordable/free healthcare technically allow more freedom because that way those who perform health care opperations still have their well being while giving those who couldn't afford it a chance at having it?

But who pays the doctors? That money has to come from somewhere. You are taking away freedom from people when you use force to deprive them of something. Thankfully, charities exist for a reason.

Doesn't exactly make sense for a homeless guy for be forced to pay for someone else's pension when they themselves struggle to even buy food.

 

[ryzno]

So what happens if you cannot afford healthcare? Is that still "freedom"?

Not really, the government determines if you can afford it. That doesn't mean you can actually afford it. And if you can from what they say and don't buy it, you'll be tax fined. Oh and it's not as easy to find places that accept cash.
Edit: don't even know why I just repeated what you said...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I will make this perfectly clear: if you have to resort to insulting members, name calling, or wishing harm on them, you will receive points. If you can't discuss the subject without doing that, you should be having a serious think about taking part.

No exceptions.

 

[Turbotwin01]

Now now. Under US law, a hospital is REQUIRED to make payment arrangements if you can not afford emergency care. That is why homeless in this country use the ER as a doctor's office.

So what happens if they cannot afford the payments? They have to put all their money into it just to stay alive and then they become trapped to that system. Is that still freedom?

We gladly pick up the bill anyway, because we are human, we do not need Bernie to teach us that. Sure the guy might have a bill to haunt him but he will never be denied service.

How kind of you to hold that over their heads.

Nope @Turbotwin01, my life is my own. How can you possibly say that just because there is a system before me I need to accept it? Bollox, I have a right to my life just as long as I allow others a right to theirs.

It is so damn simple.

It isn't simple!

Of course you can deny the system. But you can't deny having some sort of system. Besides, everything everyone does causes things to happen to other people that can hurt their well being so really no one is free and no one ever will be. Just because you think your own feces doesn't have a foul odur does not mean people cannot smell it.

 

[squadops]

It is simple, do you care to know why? I freely give my services to those in need and guess what? There is zero need for an intrusive government to tell me how to do it or that I must do it.

Like I've said so many times, I am a compassionate conservative, that means that I give the most that I can, it also means I expect nothing in return, it also means I do not wish to burn your forest down and rob you of fire wood.

You'll get it one of these days, most likely when you find yourself in a hard place and realize the government that you hold in such high regards lets you down. I'll be your brother.

 

[Turbotwin01]

But who pays the doctors? That money has to come from somewhere. You are taking away freedom from people when you use force to deprive them of something. Thankfully, charities exist for a reason.

The taxes would pay the government, government pays for doctors. Of course it isn't that simple and that only works in a perfect world. Charities are great but in times of economic hardship they are useless to most citizens because they need to focus on their family first.

Doesn't exactly make sense for a homeless guy for be forced to pay for someone else's pension when they themselves struggle to even buy food.

If that was the case he would pay very little tax. I only dipped into health care here, never pensions. But the amount government spends on them for government workers here in Canada is quite ludicrous from what I heard and there is no need for a low wage earner to pay for that. If anything the workers should save what they can instead but we all know how that ends up.

It is simple, do you care to know why? I freely give my services to those in need and guess what? There is zero need for an intrusive government to tell me how to do it or that I must do it.

That is great until hard times hit and we have to focus on feeding ourselves and those who still can help with charity hide their money elsewhere. The governmemt should adapt to the changes in the economy and nation in general and elections are the best way way for people to adapt the government for the time.

Like I've said so many times, I am a compassionate conservative, that means that I give the most that I can, it also means I expect nothing in return, it also means I do not wish to burn your forest down and rob you of fire wood.

That is great and I appreciate the generosity people have. But I also know that many people are still greedy and grab more for themselves and give nothing to others less fortunate. I guess in a sense to avoid taxes they will sometimes donate to charity but others will hide them in Panama to keep in their pockets until someone throws the papers on the internet.

You'll get it one of these days, most likely when you find yourself in a hard place and realize the government that you hold in such high regards lets you down. I'll be your brother.

I never held the government in high regard, not even my own, and generally we become more right-winged as we age and as it stands I see myself as pretty centre (that "stupid chart" you distaste says I am slightly left and fairly libertarian) and with time I will probably become more libertarian and more right wing. However I do know that the government has to do certain things in order to provide people the best oppurtunitys in life.

 

[squadops]

Here you are, unwilling to go back and see it I understand, so I shall retrieve it for you even though I should not have to

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-elections-2016.326052/page-136#post-11328806

Keep in mind there is more to it than that, but also keep in mind that I am a human please. It is my belief that if we got all the red tape out of the way we as a people would do the right thing for the most part, as I have said I am not libertarian and as such I do believe in a bit of authority, but nothing so much so that there is corruption and abuse of power.

I'll say this much again, what makes those that came before me an authority? Nothing that is what. I am my own man with my own right to life, I do my best to do the right thing.

 

[Pillo-san]

@squadops I am coming back to this all the time because I do not have a proper response from you or maybe just have missed something. But, I try to say this again. You pay taxes for war and that your own country spy on you. And you say that and I quote: It's only ok for the state to take money that I agree to give.


But do you really agree to this freely and willingly? Is it not that you pay certain amount of tax based on how much you earn? So how do you decide how much and where you can give to the state? Would it not be better if a lot of those taxes that goes to military and surveillance go to other part of the system, like health care and schools and such? I have said that before and I do it again, so you chooses war/and fear instead of a healthy and better population?

 

[squadops]

No, I want and like my national security, that is one of the fundamental aspects of our federal government, I will not argue with them. I hope they can figure it out and stop the nonsense that I perceive, I have to put my trust in them even when my logic dictates otherwise.

I do not choose war, I do not choose fear, I do not choose health or any of that, I choose freedom. I know that you are a socialist and believe me when I say I don't mind, I truly don't. I am an American and I choose different, that is no reason not to get along what so ever.

The only thing that I ask is for foreign folks to stop trying to press their values upon the U.S. Well that is not so true, I also wish for anyone to stop forcing things upon me as I'm not a bad guy all around.

 

[Pillo-san]

Why do you need a national security that expensive when money from just a couple of those weapon/defence programs(black holes) would result in higher standard for your citizens. No extra money taken from your pockets.
and what is wrong with restricting large and powerful companies to influence the politics.

You do know that you are not free when people far above your position decide what laws should be in affect. The only thing you are allowed to decide is who the person that stands above you is.

How much freedom it that, when you called our system for mob mentality. but do not be fooled by me promoting our system because we basically are just as cheated as you when those we elect come to power. Empty promises

 

[1241Penguin]

The taxes would pay the government, government pays for doctors.

Who pays the government again?



Oh right the taxpayers.

If that was the case he would pay very little tax. I only dipped into health care here, never pensions.

Is it not the same idea? Government taking money from people and then redistributing it? And how exactly do you propose that they only pay "very little tax?"