[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[Biggles]

They're putting on a show to get what they want from people

I think it's more a matter of telling the people "what they want to hear" - mostly, in the case of the Republicans, how they're going to reverse anything & everything associated with Obama, how tough they will be in "destroying" ISIS & opposing Iran & Putin (except for Trump, who's Putinesque is his approach to politics) & how they will cosy up to Israel.

The last two GOP primaries are a fascinating contrast to 2000 when the Republican "establishment" hand-picked George Bush who had pretty much a cakewalk to the nomination. He become the President without any obvious presidential qualities & without even much of an evident drive to be President. It must be a particularly painful reflection for Jeb!

 

[Pupik]

It will be interesting to see what effect the NH primaries will have on thinning out the herd.

If history is any guide, that's pretty much what's going to happen. There will be less to report because there's less candidates, and the back-channeling begins. It will depend on how soon a candidate clinches the nomination, although that doesn't stop media from assuming everyone's a running mate. Once each party is down to one or two candidates, it mellows out a little bit, so the super-pacs can start slinging mud at each other.

Just wait...it gets worse.

 

[FoolKiller]

They're putting on a show to get what they want from people

I think it's more a matter of telling the people "what they want to hear"

To get votes from them. Magicians tell you it is magic to make you ooh and ah. Clowns make you believe they are care free and goofy when they really have all the same problems we do.

- mostly, in the case of the Republicans, how they're going to reverse anything & everything associated with Obama, how tough they will be in "destroying" ISIS & opposing Iran & Putin (except for Trump, who's Putinesque is his approach to politics) & how they will cosy up to Israel.

So the GOP version of hope and change?

And if "free stuff for everybody" and "I have experience because I lived in the White House before, was a Senator, and the SOS, but I'm not an establishment Democrat" isn't telling people just what they want to hear, I don't know what is.

It's all lies and showmanship to get votes. Put all the lipstick you want on it, it's still a gorilla serving up a poop sandwich.

 

[Biggles]

I think there's a big difference in approach between the Democratic candidates & the GOP candidates, but a major part of that is the fact that there are so many candidates on the GOP side that it's not possible to put forward any kind of nuanced policy positions, even if they actually existed ... so they just attack each other personally. We're being told that Christie in some way "did well" in the last debate ... only because he attacked Rubio personally.

So the GOP version of hope and change?

I don't see any "hope & change" in the GOP message at this point - it's all negative, except for Trump, who's all about "winning".

Hillary strikes me as an as experienced a politician as anyone who has run for President. She's totally a traditional "Establishment" figure, except for the fact that she's a woman.

I disagree that Sanders is just promising "free stuff for everybody".

 

[Swagger897]

I disagree that Sanders is just promising "free stuff for everybody".

This. There is almost no other counter-argument from the general majority of those against Sanders about what he actually is campaigning about.

 

[A2K78]

A clown show? I don't see the Democratic debates as a "clown show". There are now only 2 candidates, with pretty distinct personalities, backgrounds & policy positions.

The Republican situation is completely different. The GOP has torn itself apart in the last couple of decades with the growth of the Tea Party, Christian conservatives, right-wing talk-shows & blogging, all disrupting the traditional GOP establishment. This has created the rise (& fall) of such figures as Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina & many others. Into this already volatile mix has stepped the incomparable Donald - a celebrity/businessman/reality TV personality - with an ego the size of ... well ... Trump. With so many candidates jostling for attention, the possibility of putting forward any kind of coherent policy statement, assuming that some of the candidates actually had coherent policy ideas to offer, has been lost in the barrage of personal attacks & strategic maneuvering. It will be interesting to see what effect the NH primaries will have on thinning out the herd.

Democrat or Republican the only thing I see coming out of these debates is nothing but a straight-up comedy and in what manner?


Clinton: Not only Am I going bomb more countries, but I'm going to erect more barriers to opportunity and destroy even more jobs

Sanders: I'm going to take your property and redistribute it

Entire GOP field(the exception being Rand): Vote for me because I can be the better crony capitalist and could do a better job at bombing countries than Clinton.

Anyhow this might be slightly off-topic...I love clueless Clinton reaction to the murder of Tyshawn Lee:


http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Hillary-Clinton-Speaks-About-Tyshawn-Lee-Murder-342570202.html

My take, perhaps Tyshawn Lee would be still alive if wasn't for the action of not only herself, but that of her husband. In all seriousness this hag need to have her mouth sewn shut.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think there's a big difference in approach between the Democratic candidates & the GOP candidates,

But they both lie and their end goal is the same. Approach from the right or left, it's still a poo sandwich.

I don't see any "hope & change" in the GOP message at this point

Because you think Obama's policies are good and don't like the change?

Keep in mind, Obama's hope and change campaign centered around how horrible Bush was and he was going to reverse everything. Sure, he put it in a more eloquent package, but that was his message. It was mostly lies too, but he was lying in a serious way.

I disagree that Sanders is just promising "free stuff for everybody".

I was using hyperbole, blatantly, for both candidates.

He has said he will make college tuition free (not in his power) and create a single payer (aka "free") healthcare plan (not in his power). And then if redistribution of wealth and forced wage increases aren't giving something for nothing, I don't know what is.

Of course he didn't say for everybody. He has to take it from somewhere first.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Sanders: I'm going to take your property and redistribute it

Interesting. Got a source for that?

Entire GOP field(the exception being Rand):

He's not in the field any more though, right?

My take, perhaps Tyshawn Lee would be still alive if wasn't for the action of not only herself, but that of her husband. In all seriousness this hag need to have her mouth sewn shut.

Even more interesting. Clearly the Constitutional right to free speech should be barred based on her comments when a 9 year old boy was shot dead near the forum she was speaking at last November?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I disagree that Sanders is just promising "free stuff for everybody".

Free college tuition, free healthcare isn't free stuff for everybody?

This. There is almost no other counter-argument from the general majority of those against Sanders about what he actually is campaigning about.

Damn the rich, make the dirty capitalist bastards pay for everything. Raise the hell out of taxes and give to the innocent poor, students and general downtrodden. That's pretty much his campaign isn't it, straight from Karl Marx? $13.6 trillion in tax increases over the next decade wasn't it?

 

[huskeR32]

I love clueless Clinton reaction to the murder of Tyshawn Lee

Which part is "clueless?"

My take, perhaps Tyshawn Lee would be still alive if wasn't for the action of not only herself, but that of her husband.

Clinton's actions got this boy shot? Would you care to substantiate that at all?

In all seriousness this hag need to have her mouth sewn shut.

Surely you're capable of expressing a coherent point without resorting to juvenile name-calling?

 

[Sanji Himura]

Interesting. Got a source for that?

Just take a look at his tax plan, widely available on the internet.

EDIT: The FBI formally confirms its investigation into Hillary's private email server, one of the worst kept secrets in politics today.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/fbi-formally-confirms-its-investigation-hillary-clintons-email-server

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just take a look at his tax plan, widely available on the internet.

Nothing about property removal in there.

 

[FoolKiller]

Nothing about property removal in there.

Money isn't property?

 

[Swagger897]

Last time I remember from accounting class land & property =/= cash...

 

[ryzno]

Our money is technically owned by the Department of Treasury.

 

[Dennisch]

Is Bernie kicking ass in New Hampshire?

 

[Sanji Himura]

Last time I remember from accounting class land & property =/= cash...

I don't know how it works where you're from, but here in Texas, just try and NOT pay your property taxes. That is grounds for eviction here in Texas.

If income taxes increase, and they will under Sanders' plan, the federal government will have more money from both the middle class and "The Rich". If they are being forced into poverty, then they can't pay the state mandated property taxes. Can't pay the tax, lose their housing.

So in that respect, yes property does equal cash.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Money isn't property?

No, it's a current asset in the form of a bond in somebody else's property and/or commodity (usually gold). Property is a fixed asset.

So in that respect, yes property does equal cash.

That's an indirect comparison though - chattel/property seizure against cash debts.

 

[Swagger897]

I don't know how it works where you're from, but here in Texas, just try and NOT pay your property taxes. That is grounds for eviction here in Texas.

Clearly you misread that.

the federal government will have more money from both the middle class and "The Rich".

So when in your opinion does the middle class turn into the rich?

 

[TenEightyOne]

So when in your opinion does the middle class turn into the rich?

Usually when they fall in love with their secretary.

 

[FoolKiller]

Last time I remember from accounting class land & property =/= cash...

Who said cash?

Also, criminal theft/robbery laws do not distinguish between the two.

But I'll play along.

Solid assets = property.
Liquid assets = not property.
Got it.

So if I solidify all my assets and request to be paid in gold coins then Sanders' plans won't touch me. Got it.

Wait, I forgot his plan to use the Keep Our Pensions Promises Act to prevent pension cuts. He wants to tax like-kind exchanges of property and inheritance of solid assets. I couldn't exchange my gold coins for anything without being taxed, and if I leave them to my children they'll still be taxed.

Then there is what happens if you don't pay your taxes. They take your property because it's all the same to them.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Is Bernie kicking ass in New Hampshire?

Judging by recent polls there, yes.

 

[FoolKiller]

No, it's a current asset in the form of a bond in somebody else's property and/or commodity (usually gold). Property is a fixed asset.

You are distinguishing between tangible property and intangible property. Cash money was historically considered intangible property, but as the gold standard is no longer in place and it doesn't represent a physical asset today it is commonly treated as a tangible asset, the same as a car.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Wait, I forgot his plan to use the Keep Our Pensions Promises Act to prevent pension cuts. He wants to tax like-kind exchanges of property and inheritance of solid assets.

For the first... I understood he was removing the tax loophole used by the very wealthy in like-kind exchanges, it won't affect the broad majority like Joe Schmoe or his small business.

For the second... you won't get much sympathy from someone in Britain on that one... and don't you already have Estate Tax, the equivalent of our Death Duty?

 

[squadops]

Bernie doesn't believe in any sort of private property rights anyway, so the point is a bit moot.

 

[Sanji Himura]

For the second... you won't get much sympathy from someone in Britain on that one... and don't you already have Estate Tax, the equivalent of our Death Duty?

Yes, we do. 40% on estates with a net worth of over $5 million as of 2013. The only exceptions are when assets are given to your spouse or a charity. Those assets are exempt from the tax.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Clearly you misread that.

Our Tax code says otherwise. Quoting Texas Tax Code, Title 1, Subtitle D, Chapter 26, Section 26.11:

PRORATING TAXES--ACQUISITION BY GOVERNMENT. (a) If the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state acquires the right to possession of taxable property under a court order issued in condemnation proceedings or acquires title to taxable property, the amount of the tax due on the property is calculated by multiplying the amount of taxes imposed on the property for the entire year as determined as provided by Section 26.09 of this code by a fraction, the denominator of which is 365 and the numerator of which is the number of days that elapsed prior to the date of the conveyance or the date of the order granting the right of possession.

(b) If the amount of taxes to be imposed on the property for the year of transfer has not been determined at the time of transfer, the assessor for each taxing unit in which the property is taxable may use the taxes imposed on the property for the preceding tax year as the basis for determining the amount of taxes to be imposed for the current tax year.

(c) If the amount of prorated taxes determined to be due as provided by this section is tendered to the collector for the unit, the collector shall accept the tender. The payment absolves:

(1) the transferor of liability for taxes by the unit on the property for the year of the transfer; and

(2) the taxing unit of liability for a refund in connection with taxes on the property for the year of the transfer.

Source: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

New Hampshire Primary Polling has Closed! Results Pending throughout the Night!

With ~1% reporting
GOP:
Trump: 42% (425)
Cruz: 11% (113)
Kasich: 11% (110)
Rubio: 9% (95)
Bush: 9% (91)
Christie: 7% (73)
Fiorina: 4% (63)
Carson: 2% (44)
Gilmore: 0% (1)

Democrat: (2% reporting)
Sanders: 53% (2,420)
Clinton: 44% (1,994)

All numbers in parenthesis are raw vote counts sourced from FOX.

 

[ukfan758]

CNN is projecting that Trump and Sanders will win New Hampshire.

 

[FoolKiller]

For the first... I understood he was removing the tax loophole used by the very wealthy in like-kind exchanges, it won't affect the broad majority like Joe Schmoe or his small business.

So long as it only affects a minority group it's OK, right?

For the second... you won't get much sympathy from someone in Britain on that one...

Which is unimportant in the context of our current election.

and don't you already have Estate Tax, the equivalent of our Death Duty?

Yes, which he wants to make more restrictive and use on solid assets as well

But taxing families in a time of grieving for the act of having a loved one die is immoral BS. Our money is taxed when earned, when spent, when invested, when withdrawn, when we own property, and when we die. When is it finally a fair share?

I just had to pay taxes on the value of a totaled car. I lost my car and got taxed for it. BS!!!



I just realized something. Sanders' inititials are BS. If Sanders gets elected we get to call all his policies a BS policy. Bring on the BS. BS for president.

Oh, if he gets elected it will be a glorious time for comedy.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Oh, if he gets elected it will be a glorious time for comedy.

Trump already has that position.

Sanders FTW in New Hampshire.